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eventually the idiots/assholes will become a problem that needs to be dealt with Like the police force?

solidasparagus 6y ago
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. While many of the police actions are inexcusable, trying to have a society without an active group of people enforcing law and order doesn't work well. Just look at Baltimore for the downsides of police inaction.
- dwhit 6y ago
  Baltimore police are not exactly inactive, they are more like an organized gang (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/b... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/b...).
  - solidasparagus 6y ago
    Here's data on the drop in police-initiated policing following Freddie Grey's death - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltimore-police-not-noticing-crime-after-freddie-gray-wave-killings-followed/744741002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltim...
kempbellt 6y ago
When people start policing the police force, don't they become....the police (by definition, not legality)? And therefore susceptible to becoming just like the "idiots/assholes" they were empowered to deal with. Certainly an interesting recursion problem.
- salawat 6y ago
  The solution to that is not having an "empowered" caste, and leaving it to a community to police themselves. Everyone tends to get nervous about that though.
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    Something about witch hunts and lynching perhaps?
    - zorpner 6y ago
      Both of these represent the same phenomenon as the modern police force, which is class oppression (in the first case anti-intellectual misogyny, in the second the same base racism underlying the current struggle). Communities can and will self-regulate, when let out from under the thumb of state-sanctioned violence.
      - AuryGlenz 6y ago
        What is “the community” supposed to do if there’s a murder or rape?
- jatone 6y ago
  no, because they don't have authority to police civilians. there is no recursion here. police force -> used to arrest dangerous criminals only police wardens -> used to review, charge, change police policy, and arrest police officers who violate the law. social officer -> used for all non-violent community enforcement. fines, ticketing, homelessness, mental health issues, etc. have no power to arrest anyone.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. While many of the police actions are inexcusable, trying to have a society without an active group of people enforcing law and order doesn't work well. Just look at Baltimore for the downsides of police inaction.

dwhit 6y ago
Baltimore police are not exactly inactive, they are more like an organized gang (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/b... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/b...).
- solidasparagus 6y ago
  Here's data on the drop in police-initiated policing following Freddie Grey's death - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltimore-police-not-noticing-crime-after-freddie-gray-wave-killings-followed/744741002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltim...

kempbellt 6y ago

When people start policing the police force, don't they become....the police (by definition, not legality)? And therefore susceptible to becoming just like the "idiots/assholes" they were empowered to deal with. Certainly an interesting recursion problem.

salawat 6y ago
The solution to that is not having an "empowered" caste, and leaving it to a community to police themselves. Everyone tends to get nervous about that though.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  Something about witch hunts and lynching perhaps?
  - zorpner 6y ago
    Both of these represent the same phenomenon as the modern police force, which is class oppression (in the first case anti-intellectual misogyny, in the second the same base racism underlying the current struggle). Communities can and will self-regulate, when let out from under the thumb of state-sanctioned violence.
    - AuryGlenz 6y ago
      What is “the community” supposed to do if there’s a murder or rape?
jatone 6y ago
no, because they don't have authority to police civilians. there is no recursion here. police force -> used to arrest dangerous criminals only police wardens -> used to review, charge, change police policy, and arrest police officers who violate the law. social officer -> used for all non-violent community enforcement. fines, ticketing, homelessness, mental health issues, etc. have no power to arrest anyone.