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> And the NHS has been in hot water for handing out sensitive patient data to tech firms before. Without the perspective of someone who works in the NHS with P

> And the NHS has been in hot water for handing out sensitive patient data to tech firms before. Without the perspective of someone who works in the NHS with Palantir's software, it's impossible to say if the NHS and the public got a good deal.

mschuster91 6y ago
No matter how usable and helpful the software is for the front line workers, the fact remains that Palantir has extensive access to the medical and according to the article also criminal history of everyone in the UK. Who can promise that there are no side channels to the USA or no covert exfiltration using "backups" or "integration systems"?
- nojito 6y ago
  Why would palantir risk their EU business by breaking the trust of the contract and move information to the US?
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    Because this shit has literally happened before, only with GE being responsible instead of Palantir. https://www.itpro.co.uk/640090/ge-healthcare-comes-clean-over-nhs-data-leak https://www.itpro.co.uk/640090/ge-healthcare-comes-clean-ove... In other cases, data has been outright sold: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/07/nhs-medical-data-sales-american-pharma-lack-transparency https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/07/nhs-medical... And what do you think why Palantir and the other offer their services for one pound?! It's all about that data. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/google-apple-amazon-nhs-health-data https://www.wired.co.uk/article/google-apple-amazon-nhs-heal...
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    Because the NHS is about to be sold off as part of Brexit, and they can profit hugely from a slice of that action, while pretending they followed the rules until Brexit was completed.
    - dekhn 6y ago
      I haven't seen any plans to privatize NHS as part of Brexit (and it's not clear why the two would be related, anyway).
      - baylisscg 6y ago
        The removal of EU legislation from British law and the UK-US trade deal. With the US demanding it's healthcare and pharma unfettered access to the NHS on terms equivalent to current US not UK standards. The UK is not, technically, slapping a FOR SALE sign on the NHS they've just put themselves in a position where pretty much anyone and everyone can demand a slice. Of course this assumes that the current gonverment doesn't view the NHS as an asset to be strip mined which I'm damn sure they do.
        DanBC 6y ago
        > With the US demanding it's healthcare and pharma unfettered access to the NHS on terms equivalent to current US not UK standards. They already have that. Read the Lansley reforms. They mostly don't take it up because they can't afford to run healthcare for the pittance paid by UK government, but there are large bits of the NHS run by non-NHS providers. See for example Priory Group or Cygnet Health Care.
        easytiger 6y ago
        > which I'm damn sure they do. They specifically do not. You consuming twitter bubble fake news doesn't make something true
  - UweSchmidt 6y ago
    It seems that data-related crimes and oversights ("oops we've been hacked") are generally not being punished adequately. It's just data, right? No one got hurt. I have never heard of CEOs going to jail over any of the data breaches and abuses that are reported all the time. So I'd say the risk they'd face by "breaking trust" is fairly minimal. And, actually tracing back how a machine learning algorithm might have gobbled up this data, to be used in 5 years in a way that no one can predict, is not easy either.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - krageon 6y ago
    This is plainly a bad-faith question, because it assumes ethics and lasting consequences for bad behaviour. Two things we have seen absolutely no proof of in real life recently (or ever really, when it comes to corporations), rather the opposite is true.

mschuster91 6y ago

No matter how usable and helpful the software is for the front line workers, the fact remains that Palantir has extensive access to the medical and according to the article also criminal history of everyone in the UK. Who can promise that there are no side channels to the USA or no covert exfiltration using "backups" or "integration systems"?

nojito 6y ago
Why would palantir risk their EU business by breaking the trust of the contract and move information to the US?
- mschuster91 6y ago
  Because this shit has literally happened before, only with GE being responsible instead of Palantir. https://www.itpro.co.uk/640090/ge-healthcare-comes-clean-over-nhs-data-leak https://www.itpro.co.uk/640090/ge-healthcare-comes-clean-ove... In other cases, data has been outright sold: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/07/nhs-medical-data-sales-american-pharma-lack-transparency https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/07/nhs-medical... And what do you think why Palantir and the other offer their services for one pound?! It's all about that data. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/google-apple-amazon-nhs-health-data https://www.wired.co.uk/article/google-apple-amazon-nhs-heal...
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  Because the NHS is about to be sold off as part of Brexit, and they can profit hugely from a slice of that action, while pretending they followed the rules until Brexit was completed.
  - dekhn 6y ago
    I haven't seen any plans to privatize NHS as part of Brexit (and it's not clear why the two would be related, anyway).
    - baylisscg 6y ago
      The removal of EU legislation from British law and the UK-US trade deal. With the US demanding it's healthcare and pharma unfettered access to the NHS on terms equivalent to current US not UK standards. The UK is not, technically, slapping a FOR SALE sign on the NHS they've just put themselves in a position where pretty much anyone and everyone can demand a slice. Of course this assumes that the current gonverment doesn't view the NHS as an asset to be strip mined which I'm damn sure they do.
      - DanBC 6y ago
        > With the US demanding it's healthcare and pharma unfettered access to the NHS on terms equivalent to current US not UK standards. They already have that. Read the Lansley reforms. They mostly don't take it up because they can't afford to run healthcare for the pittance paid by UK government, but there are large bits of the NHS run by non-NHS providers. See for example Priory Group or Cygnet Health Care.
      - easytiger 6y ago
        > which I'm damn sure they do. They specifically do not. You consuming twitter bubble fake news doesn't make something true
- UweSchmidt 6y ago
  It seems that data-related crimes and oversights ("oops we've been hacked") are generally not being punished adequately. It's just data, right? No one got hurt. I have never heard of CEOs going to jail over any of the data breaches and abuses that are reported all the time. So I'd say the risk they'd face by "breaking trust" is fairly minimal. And, actually tracing back how a machine learning algorithm might have gobbled up this data, to be used in 5 years in a way that no one can predict, is not easy either.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- krageon 6y ago
  This is plainly a bad-faith question, because it assumes ethics and lasting consequences for bad behaviour. Two things we have seen absolutely no proof of in real life recently (or ever really, when it comes to corporations), rather the opposite is true.