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Forced social isolation causes neural craving similar to hunger

217 points by prostoalex 6y ago

tomrod 6y ago
This... makes a lot of sense. I get hunger cravings even when full when I have those 70+ (rare) or even 55+ (more often) hour weeks.
- Swizec 6y ago
  > when I have those 70+ (rare) or even 55+ (more often) hour weeks This is likely a different phenomena. You're burning more fuel by working longer. Especially if it comes with less sleep as well. The brain is quite a fuel-hungry organ and will crave sugars and carbs when stressed. If you're also sleeping less, you're burning more physical energy as well simply by being active longer. I regularly lose weight during hard weeks unless I compensate by eating more.
Nav_Panel 6y ago
This was Maslow's point from back in the 40s, that there's no real distinction between physiological and social hunger, besides the fact of an importance hierarchy (one needs to be decently fed in order to start caring a lot about sociality, although even a person in starvation may care somewhat). Glad to see it's being neurologically researched as well.
- richardbrevig 6y ago
  Yes, all needs in the hierarchy are basic and necessary!
  - somerandomqaguy 6y ago
    I wouldn't classify social interaction as a need. There's plenty of examples of people without any human contact surviving, to the point that we have a well established word for these people; hermit. Imperial Japanese holdouts after the end of WW2 are the classical example, and to a lesser degree you have hikikomori in modern day. The most extreme example is Christopher Thomas Knight (the North Pond Hermit) with only one claim instance of human interaction in that period; he said, "Hi" to a hiker. A need has a specific meaning; more or less, you will die if you don't have water for more then a week. It doesn't matter how strong willed you are, lack of water will kill you. Lack of social interaction will not universally kill everyone.
    - richardbrevig 6y ago
      Please review Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs [1]. I'm just communicating what he said in his book Motivation and Personality. His theory is taught in every introduction to psychology textbook. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs
      - ngold 6y ago
        I enjoyed a non personal specific event. Thank you.
    - Nav_Panel 6y ago
      Maslow was working with a theory of human motivation, not just survival. I quote the following from his original text https://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Maslow/motivation.htm https://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Maslow/motivation.htm: > what happens to man's desires when there is plenty of bread and when his belly is chronically filled? > At once other (and 'higher') needs emerge and these, rather than physiological hungers, dominate the organism. And when these in turn are satisfied, again new (and still 'higher') needs emerge and so on. This is what we mean by saying that the basic human needs are organized into a hierarchy of relative prepotency. > One main implication of this phrasing is that gratification becomes as important a concept as deprivation in motivation theory, for it releases the organism from the domination of a relatively more physiological need, permitting thereby the emergence of other more social goals. The physiological needs, along with their partial goals, when chronically gratified cease to exist as active determinants or organizers of behavior. They now exist only in a potential fashion in the sense that they may emerge again to dominate the organism if they are thwarted. But a want that is satisfied is no longer a want. The organism is dominated and its behavior organized only by unsatisfied needs. If hunger is satisfied, it becomes unimportant in the current dynamics of the individual. Basically, Maslow's definition of a "need" is "a human drive that acts as a determinant of behavior" and not purely in the sense of "a physiological requirement for survival". You may disagree with his framework as presented (I do, but on psychoanalytic grounds, that it's overgeneralized, lacking a few steps in terms of how individuals interact with desire, and therefore only sociologically and not individually useful), but it seems difficult to argue humans lack "psychical needs" of some form beyond pure physiology. In the case of hikikomori, recall that they spend a lot of time with media, creating "parasocial" relationships, or even on (usually anonymous) social media websites, which do offer a form of social interaction and connectedness. But there is a reason why very few individuals end up as genuine hermits, without any social interaction whatsoever.
davidw 6y ago
I have been having backyard beers with a friend at a time, at a distance, on nice days. Feels safe enough and it is nice to see friends!
amelius 6y ago
In some circles, there's even an expression for a related phenomenon: "skin hunger" https://globalnews.ca/news/6929793/coronavirus-disability-touch-deprivation/ https://globalnews.ca/news/6929793/coronavirus-disability-to...
- LUmBULtERA 6y ago
  I feel like they could have come up with a better name.
- the-peter 6y ago
  Interestingly there is a Japanese phrase 'kuchi sabishii' that translates to 'lonely mouth' which means you aren't hungry but want to snack.
cameronbrown 6y ago
Would explain why I'm eating a bowl of cereal at 9PM nowadays... I would encourage people to see friends at a distance whenever possible. We must remember to balance our mental health (greatly affected by seeing others) with our physical health.
rajeevtfi 6y ago
Eric Berne talked about this long time back in 1964 in his book "Games People Play"
- Nav_Panel 6y ago
  Hah yes the classic "8 stroke American greeting" to prevent "spinal shriveling", good stuff.
rb808 6y ago
Honestly its scary the talk of another year like this. I have a family and even with them around living all day in my apt is starting to drive me crazy. I'd hate to be living by myself. Its a lot like solitary confinement. My Brother had the bug, had a mild cough for a few days and lost his taste. I'm very jealous.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > Honestly its scary the talk of another year like this. I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting you will not be able to leave your house for another year. I think everywhere has concrete plans to re-open everything short of mass gatherings pretty soon. That's the cautious countries and the less cautious countries alike.
  - rb808 6y ago
    Yeah I go outside 2-3 times a week already. I just want to visit my parents, sit at a proper desk, and have my children play with some friends.
  - whatshisface 6y ago
    The open or closed status of everything has little to do with whether or not you should engage in non-essential visits. Policymakers do not schedule the virus.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      The 'non-essential' guidance is also being relaxed in all locations I've seen reporting on. Most are encouraging distanced socialising and return to work.
      - whatshisface 6y ago
        The non-essential guidance has little bearing on whether or not someone should engage in non-essential visits, as policymakers do not schedule the virus.
ericol 6y ago
More or less for my entire life I've had the idea that my social needs were not on par with the rest of the people, and this quarantine seems to have proven just that. Bear in mind I do enjoy social life; when I was living in Spain in my 30s (and single) I had a very active social life, and had a moderate (~30) amount of friends split in 2 groups with which I continuously interacted. When I left Spain for my place of origin I had only a handful of friends, and then I moved to where I live now and have only one friend, whom I see sporadically. Nowadays I mostly interact with my partner and daughter, and the people I work with (I've been working remotely for 13 years) and to be honest, I have no cravings for social life (Except that I miss going for a stroll every once in a while at nights).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- tehlike 6y ago
  That explains fair amount of us, I think. I'm on the same camp. It makes it a bit challenging as my wife is extremely social, so finding balance is a bit tough for both of us :)
  - obiefernandez 6y ago
    I have the same issue. My wife is going absolutely stir-crazy and dreaming of all the adventures, while I'm absolutely happy to be productive at home with relatively few distractions.
    - ericol 6y ago
      Well, my partner has the same issue. Even thought we are living in this city because it was the best for her career (She's a professional flamenco "bailaora" and where we lived before her career was dead in the water) she doesn't have a large amount of friends, but boy does she crave for going out. She is really having a bad time going through this, while I'm surfing the wave without issues.
      - 6y ago
mensetmanusman 6y ago
We need to ban solitary confinement in prisons.
- rb808 6y ago
  I have a lot more sympathy for animals in the zoo as well.
  - belltaco 6y ago
    In some countries it's illegal to have just one of a kind of some animals as a pet.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    I have never liked zoos! The animals look so sad. The San Diego and Cincinnati zoos are very large and that helps, but I still don't enjoy going to them. The reptiles are usually fine, but many of the mammals really shouldn't be locked up like that. A polar bear swims up to 600km a day in the wild. I like aquariums. Most fish are fine in a big enough tank; turtles too. I avoid aquariums with Dolphins or Whales. Considering how much they swim in the while, that seems cruel too.
    - JoshuaDavid 6y ago
      > A polar bear swims up to 600km a day in the wild. Off topic, but there's no way that can be true. 600km in a day is 25 km / hour for 24 hours straight. Looking online, it looks like the top swimming speed of a polar bear is closer to 10 km / hour. That said, I agree about the sadness of zoos.
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Stressfressen
- kaybe 6y ago
  Kummerspeck
starpilot 6y ago
I just haven't been able to read books when I've been isolated a lot. It's just like my mind can't focus, it's so anxious and doesn't considering the reading to be important. My theory is it's similar to waking up in the middle of the night when lonely. The mind is searching for dangers from being isolated and alone. I also notice my urge to buy stuff goes up when I am lonely. Another salve for the pain.
op03 6y ago
Cravings are satisfied a thousand different ways these days. Social interaction has a lot of competition.
smcameron 6y ago
I've lived alone my whole adult life. I haven't seen anyone I know since March 8. Doesn't seem to bother me. Guess I'm a freak.
- searchableguy 6y ago
  I think there is also difference in the type of people. I feel people on the spectrum are able to empathize over text more than others and so can socialize somewhat more or feel less need to.
phkahler 6y ago
This makes sense to me because I dont think the feeling we call hunger is actually our bodies call to eat. I think from an evolutionary origin it is supposed to be a call to action. If that is so, then social isolation could trigger the same feeling.
SeanFerree 6y ago
Awesome article!
esotericn 6y ago
Er, yeah, I've been saying this for months. We are social animals. Literally just existing is stressful at the moment for most of us, because there's a constant urge that is not being satisfied. Not only for socialisation but simply the low-level stress of constantly having to 'check yourself' when you realise literally everything you'd normally be doing is either disabled or handicapped in some way. To me, lockdowns feel like some sort of irrational loss aversion strategy. If you gave me the option in, say, 2017, of halving my mortality rate for a year, but the cost was that I had to endure relatively strong anxiety for that year, there's no way I'd take that bet regardless of my age. Mucking around with your mental health is not wise. Add on top of that all of the economic effects, the political effects of dividing populations, domestic abuse, "non-essential" healthcare like dentistry, and so on and so forth, and honestly I reckon it's been a net negative.
- null0pointer 6y ago
  We should definitely be beginning to examine the mental health toll the lockdowns are having on people. Changing our behaviour for the sole purpose of extending our life expectancies as long as possible is not living at all.
- daveFNbuck 6y ago
  There are also mental health consequences to large-scale death and hospitals being over capacity. Would you choose a year of watching your friends and family randomly die over a year of staying home most of the time?
  - esotericn 6y ago
    I believe my comment about halving mortality addresses this. They're already likely to arbitrarily die - if in 2017 I could reduce that probability by half (coronavirus roughly doubles mortality across all age groups) by having everyone stay inside or perform the various rituals like standing far apart, wearing masks etc I wouldn't do it. If instead of decreasing life expectancy by less than a year it were something like 10 (and so we went full hazmat, disallowing things like even entering a supermarket in favour of MRE deliveries) then the calculus would be different. The main inescapable issue, which exists lockdown or not, is visiting elderly or immunocompromised relatives, not because of the absolute risk, but because of the impact that being able to say "my visit probably killed Grandma" would have.
adelHBN 6y ago
According to a May 25, 2020, WSJ article (https://www.wsj.com/articles/together-review-all-the-lonely-people-11590430598?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1)61% https://www.wsj.com/articles/together-review-all-the-lonely-... of Americans felt lonely during the Covid-19 crisis. While this percentage is higher than normal, the issue is not new. 2-3 years ago President Trump brought on a "loneliness" advisor (not for himself, for Americans), and since at least 2018 the UK has a Minister of Loneliness. This is becoming a global issue, including in China, where children are not spending time with their elderly parents the way their previous generations did.
pteraspidomorph 6y ago
Like for many people here, my need for socialization seems to be vastly inferior to the average. However, after years of living very isolated, I can strongly relate to the craving as it's described in this article.
cletus 6y ago
I am an introvert. Many people (including many introverts) thinks this means you don't like people or social gatherings. That's not the case. Or at least it's not necessarily true. Here's the best way I can describe it: being an introvert means that social interactions cost you energy. Being an extrovert (since I'm not one) seems to mean that social interactions gain you energy. I see this in a relative of mine who is clearly an extrovert. Social interactions are her drug. She craves them and gets almost like a high from them and honestly gets really hyper as a result. Compare this to me. At work I've had these extended work gatherings for several days where it's a lot of team-building, brainstorming and so on. By the end of the day I'm physically exhausted from all these interactions. Some people are not. Some will go to dinner in the evenings then out to a bar to drink and then back to someone's Airbnb for another gathering after that. That's all fine for them but it's just way too much for me. So it's not like I don't like interacting with these people. It's merely a question of how much mental energy I'm capable of expending before I need to recharge. So you see these differences really exposed by the forced isolation. I miss some of the interaction (and, to be fair, the food) of being in the office but otherwise I'm fine. You can clearly see that other people are not. While I have a natural excuse to avoid many draining activities, others are clearly being denied their recharging activities. So yeah, I can totally buy neural cravings here. For some.
- pengaru 6y ago
  For me, part of the draining effect isn't just due to being an introvert... it's because I tend to engage far too willingly in what most would treat as shallow casual interactions. I tend to treat even strangers with too much respect to give them less than my full attention and thoughtful responses. That makes it a draining chore.
searchableguy 6y ago
I wonder what people will think of criminal and justice systems after this (probably nothing). We send people to prisons all the time for extended period without outside contact in an abusive environment between the real nasty criminals and authorities. Is it really a good idea to send someone to prison for months for a small mistake that many might end up making and getting caught? Is overusing imprisonment for different types of crimes okay? A murderer will be fine in a prison since they are harmful for the society but someone stealing food because they couldn't afford any doesn't seem as harmful that they need being locked up.
kstenerud 6y ago
I've spent the majority of my life in social isolation, mainly because I keep forgetting to maintain relationships. I'd drop off the radar for months on end, until a concerned friend or family member would manage to get in contact with me (I don't use social media because it's too much bother to maintain). In 2001, after the dotcom crash, I took a yearlong sabbatical where I saw no one, spoke to no one, and by the time I was pulled into the open again it hurt to speak. TBH until I met my wife, I never thought it possible to be comfortable living with someone. I know I'm an extreme exception, but I'm one of those people who don't feel a craving for human contact.
- anonytrary 6y ago
  That's not forced; that's your choice. I'm someone who also naturally ends up being alone, however, being forced to be alone is a completely different situation. The power of choice is everything and it seems essential to this study.
  - kstenerud 6y ago
    That conclusion of the study is highly suspect. "To address this challenge, the researchers had 40 socially-connected healthy human adults spend 10 hours (9am to 7pm) alone, with no social interaction and no other social stimulation (e.g., twitter, email, reading fiction)." The subjects chose to spend 10 hours away from all social interaction in order to participate in the study. That's not the same as being forced. However, the results were striking. Just like choosing to fast from food, choosing to fast from social interaction caused similar cravings in the subjects.
8bitsrule 6y ago
People whose chosen occupations require a lot of time away from people they know well -- authors, artists, explorers, prospectors and geologists, traveling musicians and salespersons, fur trappers, truckers for example -- probably cope better with social distancing. Being isolated for long periods can lead us to difficulty articulating our thoughts well. The 'gears get rusty'. Not so much for authors I'd guess ... but a fading ability to connect no doubt leaves many increasingly frustrated and feeling even more isolated. I'd guess that, for desert travelers, the word 'oasis' meant a lot more than just water.
danybittel 6y ago
I call bullshit. I stopped reading at the setup: "the researchers had 40 socially-connected healthy human adults spend 10 hours (9am to 7pm) alone, with no social interaction and no other social stimulation (e.g., twitter, email, reading fiction)." All they did was deprive them of social media. I think it's well known by now that this is a source of dopamin.
- ddeck 6y ago
  Additionally, they also forced them to get up in the early morning on the social isolation day, locked them in an unfamiliar room, and gave them close to nothing to do: On the day of the isolation session, participants arrived at the McGovern Institute for Brain Research, MIT building 46, at 8.15am...Subsequently, participants gave their phones and laptops to the experimenter and were guided to a room containing an armchair, a desk and office chair, and a fridge with a selection of food, snacks and beverages. Participants remained in that room from 9am until 7pm. [1] It's not clear to me why reading material was withheld. It seems to make it harder to draw conclusions regarding the social isolation aspect. For the fasting session, they only had to report for the 7pm fMRI session. It strikes me that the type of people with time to participate in an experiment like this likely correlates with people that get up later than 6-7am each morning (as would have been required for the isolation session), but it seems there wasn't any accounting for possible sleep deprivation effects. [1] https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.25.006643v2.full.pdf https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.25.006643v2....

217 points by prostoalex 6y ago

This... makes a lot of sense. I get hunger cravings even when full when I have those 70+ (rare) or even 55+ (more often) hour weeks.

Swizec 6y ago
> when I have those 70+ (rare) or even 55+ (more often) hour weeks This is likely a different phenomena. You're burning more fuel by working longer. Especially if it comes with less sleep as well. The brain is quite a fuel-hungry organ and will crave sugars and carbs when stressed. If you're also sleeping less, you're burning more physical energy as well simply by being active longer. I regularly lose weight during hard weeks unless I compensate by eating more.

Nav_Panel 6y ago

This was Maslow's point from back in the 40s, that there's no real distinction between physiological and social hunger, besides the fact of an importance hierarchy (one needs to be decently fed in order to start caring a lot about sociality, although even a person in starvation may care somewhat). Glad to see it's being neurologically researched as well.

richardbrevig 6y ago
Yes, all needs in the hierarchy are basic and necessary!
- somerandomqaguy 6y ago
  I wouldn't classify social interaction as a need. There's plenty of examples of people without any human contact surviving, to the point that we have a well established word for these people; hermit. Imperial Japanese holdouts after the end of WW2 are the classical example, and to a lesser degree you have hikikomori in modern day. The most extreme example is Christopher Thomas Knight (the North Pond Hermit) with only one claim instance of human interaction in that period; he said, "Hi" to a hiker. A need has a specific meaning; more or less, you will die if you don't have water for more then a week. It doesn't matter how strong willed you are, lack of water will kill you. Lack of social interaction will not universally kill everyone.
  - richardbrevig 6y ago
    Please review Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs [1]. I'm just communicating what he said in his book Motivation and Personality. His theory is taught in every introduction to psychology textbook. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs
    - ngold 6y ago
      I enjoyed a non personal specific event. Thank you.
  - Nav_Panel 6y ago
    Maslow was working with a theory of human motivation, not just survival. I quote the following from his original text https://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Maslow/motivation.htm https://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Maslow/motivation.htm: > what happens to man's desires when there is plenty of bread and when his belly is chronically filled? > At once other (and 'higher') needs emerge and these, rather than physiological hungers, dominate the organism. And when these in turn are satisfied, again new (and still 'higher') needs emerge and so on. This is what we mean by saying that the basic human needs are organized into a hierarchy of relative prepotency. > One main implication of this phrasing is that gratification becomes as important a concept as deprivation in motivation theory, for it releases the organism from the domination of a relatively more physiological need, permitting thereby the emergence of other more social goals. The physiological needs, along with their partial goals, when chronically gratified cease to exist as active determinants or organizers of behavior. They now exist only in a potential fashion in the sense that they may emerge again to dominate the organism if they are thwarted. But a want that is satisfied is no longer a want. The organism is dominated and its behavior organized only by unsatisfied needs. If hunger is satisfied, it becomes unimportant in the current dynamics of the individual. Basically, Maslow's definition of a "need" is "a human drive that acts as a determinant of behavior" and not purely in the sense of "a physiological requirement for survival". You may disagree with his framework as presented (I do, but on psychoanalytic grounds, that it's overgeneralized, lacking a few steps in terms of how individuals interact with desire, and therefore only sociologically and not individually useful), but it seems difficult to argue humans lack "psychical needs" of some form beyond pure physiology. In the case of hikikomori, recall that they spend a lot of time with media, creating "parasocial" relationships, or even on (usually anonymous) social media websites, which do offer a form of social interaction and connectedness. But there is a reason why very few individuals end up as genuine hermits, without any social interaction whatsoever.

davidw 6y ago

I have been having backyard beers with a friend at a time, at a distance, on nice days. Feels safe enough and it is nice to see friends!

amelius 6y ago

In some circles, there's even an expression for a related phenomenon: "skin hunger" https://globalnews.ca/news/6929793/coronavirus-disability-touch-deprivation/ https://globalnews.ca/news/6929793/coronavirus-disability-to...

LUmBULtERA 6y ago
I feel like they could have come up with a better name.
the-peter 6y ago
Interestingly there is a Japanese phrase 'kuchi sabishii' that translates to 'lonely mouth' which means you aren't hungry but want to snack.

cameronbrown 6y ago

Would explain why I'm eating a bowl of cereal at 9PM nowadays... I would encourage people to see friends at a distance whenever possible. We must remember to balance our mental health (greatly affected by seeing others) with our physical health.

rajeevtfi 6y ago

Eric Berne talked about this long time back in 1964 in his book "Games People Play"

Nav_Panel 6y ago
Hah yes the classic "8 stroke American greeting" to prevent "spinal shriveling", good stuff.

rb808 6y ago

Honestly its scary the talk of another year like this. I have a family and even with them around living all day in my apt is starting to drive me crazy. I'd hate to be living by myself. Its a lot like solitary confinement. My Brother had the bug, had a mild cough for a few days and lost his taste. I'm very jealous.

chrisseaton 6y ago
> Honestly its scary the talk of another year like this. I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting you will not be able to leave your house for another year. I think everywhere has concrete plans to re-open everything short of mass gatherings pretty soon. That's the cautious countries and the less cautious countries alike.
- rb808 6y ago
  Yeah I go outside 2-3 times a week already. I just want to visit my parents, sit at a proper desk, and have my children play with some friends.
- whatshisface 6y ago
  The open or closed status of everything has little to do with whether or not you should engage in non-essential visits. Policymakers do not schedule the virus.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    The 'non-essential' guidance is also being relaxed in all locations I've seen reporting on. Most are encouraging distanced socialising and return to work.
    - whatshisface 6y ago
      The non-essential guidance has little bearing on whether or not someone should engage in non-essential visits, as policymakers do not schedule the virus.

ericol 6y ago

More or less for my entire life I've had the idea that my social needs were not on par with the rest of the people, and this quarantine seems to have proven just that. Bear in mind I do enjoy social life; when I was living in Spain in my 30s (and single) I had a very active social life, and had a moderate (~30) amount of friends split in 2 groups with which I continuously interacted. When I left Spain for my place of origin I had only a handful of friends, and then I moved to where I live now and have only one friend, whom I see sporadically. Nowadays I mostly interact with my partner and daughter, and the people I work with (I've been working remotely for 13 years) and to be honest, I have no cravings for social life (Except that I miss going for a stroll every once in a while at nights).

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
tehlike 6y ago
That explains fair amount of us, I think. I'm on the same camp. It makes it a bit challenging as my wife is extremely social, so finding balance is a bit tough for both of us :)
- obiefernandez 6y ago
  I have the same issue. My wife is going absolutely stir-crazy and dreaming of all the adventures, while I'm absolutely happy to be productive at home with relatively few distractions.
  - ericol 6y ago
    Well, my partner has the same issue. Even thought we are living in this city because it was the best for her career (She's a professional flamenco "bailaora" and where we lived before her career was dead in the water) she doesn't have a large amount of friends, but boy does she crave for going out. She is really having a bad time going through this, while I'm surfing the wave without issues.
    - 6y ago

mensetmanusman 6y ago

We need to ban solitary confinement in prisons.

rb808 6y ago
I have a lot more sympathy for animals in the zoo as well.
- belltaco 6y ago
  In some countries it's illegal to have just one of a kind of some animals as a pet.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  I have never liked zoos! The animals look so sad. The San Diego and Cincinnati zoos are very large and that helps, but I still don't enjoy going to them. The reptiles are usually fine, but many of the mammals really shouldn't be locked up like that. A polar bear swims up to 600km a day in the wild. I like aquariums. Most fish are fine in a big enough tank; turtles too. I avoid aquariums with Dolphins or Whales. Considering how much they swim in the while, that seems cruel too.
  - JoshuaDavid 6y ago
    > A polar bear swims up to 600km a day in the wild. Off topic, but there's no way that can be true. 600km in a day is 25 km / hour for 24 hours straight. Looking online, it looks like the top swimming speed of a polar bear is closer to 10 km / hour. That said, I agree about the sadness of zoos.

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago

Stressfressen

kaybe 6y ago
Kummerspeck

starpilot 6y ago

I just haven't been able to read books when I've been isolated a lot. It's just like my mind can't focus, it's so anxious and doesn't considering the reading to be important. My theory is it's similar to waking up in the middle of the night when lonely. The mind is searching for dangers from being isolated and alone. I also notice my urge to buy stuff goes up when I am lonely. Another salve for the pain.

op03 6y ago

Cravings are satisfied a thousand different ways these days. Social interaction has a lot of competition.

smcameron 6y ago

I've lived alone my whole adult life. I haven't seen anyone I know since March 8. Doesn't seem to bother me. Guess I'm a freak.

searchableguy 6y ago
I think there is also difference in the type of people. I feel people on the spectrum are able to empathize over text more than others and so can socialize somewhat more or feel less need to.

phkahler 6y ago

This makes sense to me because I dont think the feeling we call hunger is actually our bodies call to eat. I think from an evolutionary origin it is supposed to be a call to action. If that is so, then social isolation could trigger the same feeling.

SeanFerree 6y ago

Awesome article!

esotericn 6y ago

Er, yeah, I've been saying this for months. We are social animals. Literally just existing is stressful at the moment for most of us, because there's a constant urge that is not being satisfied. Not only for socialisation but simply the low-level stress of constantly having to 'check yourself' when you realise literally everything you'd normally be doing is either disabled or handicapped in some way. To me, lockdowns feel like some sort of irrational loss aversion strategy. If you gave me the option in, say, 2017, of halving my mortality rate for a year, but the cost was that I had to endure relatively strong anxiety for that year, there's no way I'd take that bet regardless of my age. Mucking around with your mental health is not wise. Add on top of that all of the economic effects, the political effects of dividing populations, domestic abuse, "non-essential" healthcare like dentistry, and so on and so forth, and honestly I reckon it's been a net negative.

null0pointer 6y ago
We should definitely be beginning to examine the mental health toll the lockdowns are having on people. Changing our behaviour for the sole purpose of extending our life expectancies as long as possible is not living at all.
daveFNbuck 6y ago
There are also mental health consequences to large-scale death and hospitals being over capacity. Would you choose a year of watching your friends and family randomly die over a year of staying home most of the time?
- esotericn 6y ago
  I believe my comment about halving mortality addresses this. They're already likely to arbitrarily die - if in 2017 I could reduce that probability by half (coronavirus roughly doubles mortality across all age groups) by having everyone stay inside or perform the various rituals like standing far apart, wearing masks etc I wouldn't do it. If instead of decreasing life expectancy by less than a year it were something like 10 (and so we went full hazmat, disallowing things like even entering a supermarket in favour of MRE deliveries) then the calculus would be different. The main inescapable issue, which exists lockdown or not, is visiting elderly or immunocompromised relatives, not because of the absolute risk, but because of the impact that being able to say "my visit probably killed Grandma" would have.

adelHBN 6y ago

According to a May 25, 2020, WSJ article (https://www.wsj.com/articles/together-review-all-the-lonely-people-11590430598?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1)61% https://www.wsj.com/articles/together-review-all-the-lonely-... of Americans felt lonely during the Covid-19 crisis. While this percentage is higher than normal, the issue is not new. 2-3 years ago President Trump brought on a "loneliness" advisor (not for himself, for Americans), and since at least 2018 the UK has a Minister of Loneliness. This is becoming a global issue, including in China, where children are not spending time with their elderly parents the way their previous generations did.

pteraspidomorph 6y ago

Like for many people here, my need for socialization seems to be vastly inferior to the average. However, after years of living very isolated, I can strongly relate to the craving as it's described in this article.

cletus 6y ago

I am an introvert. Many people (including many introverts) thinks this means you don't like people or social gatherings. That's not the case. Or at least it's not necessarily true. Here's the best way I can describe it: being an introvert means that social interactions cost you energy. Being an extrovert (since I'm not one) seems to mean that social interactions gain you energy. I see this in a relative of mine who is clearly an extrovert. Social interactions are her drug. She craves them and gets almost like a high from them and honestly gets really hyper as a result. Compare this to me. At work I've had these extended work gatherings for several days where it's a lot of team-building, brainstorming and so on. By the end of the day I'm physically exhausted from all these interactions. Some people are not. Some will go to dinner in the evenings then out to a bar to drink and then back to someone's Airbnb for another gathering after that. That's all fine for them but it's just way too much for me. So it's not like I don't like interacting with these people. It's merely a question of how much mental energy I'm capable of expending before I need to recharge. So you see these differences really exposed by the forced isolation. I miss some of the interaction (and, to be fair, the food) of being in the office but otherwise I'm fine. You can clearly see that other people are not. While I have a natural excuse to avoid many draining activities, others are clearly being denied their recharging activities. So yeah, I can totally buy neural cravings here. For some.

pengaru 6y ago
For me, part of the draining effect isn't just due to being an introvert... it's because I tend to engage far too willingly in what most would treat as shallow casual interactions. I tend to treat even strangers with too much respect to give them less than my full attention and thoughtful responses. That makes it a draining chore.

searchableguy 6y ago

I wonder what people will think of criminal and justice systems after this (probably nothing). We send people to prisons all the time for extended period without outside contact in an abusive environment between the real nasty criminals and authorities. Is it really a good idea to send someone to prison for months for a small mistake that many might end up making and getting caught? Is overusing imprisonment for different types of crimes okay? A murderer will be fine in a prison since they are harmful for the society but someone stealing food because they couldn't afford any doesn't seem as harmful that they need being locked up.

kstenerud 6y ago

I've spent the majority of my life in social isolation, mainly because I keep forgetting to maintain relationships. I'd drop off the radar for months on end, until a concerned friend or family member would manage to get in contact with me (I don't use social media because it's too much bother to maintain). In 2001, after the dotcom crash, I took a yearlong sabbatical where I saw no one, spoke to no one, and by the time I was pulled into the open again it hurt to speak. TBH until I met my wife, I never thought it possible to be comfortable living with someone. I know I'm an extreme exception, but I'm one of those people who don't feel a craving for human contact.

anonytrary 6y ago
That's not forced; that's your choice. I'm someone who also naturally ends up being alone, however, being forced to be alone is a completely different situation. The power of choice is everything and it seems essential to this study.
- kstenerud 6y ago
  That conclusion of the study is highly suspect. "To address this challenge, the researchers had 40 socially-connected healthy human adults spend 10 hours (9am to 7pm) alone, with no social interaction and no other social stimulation (e.g., twitter, email, reading fiction)." The subjects chose to spend 10 hours away from all social interaction in order to participate in the study. That's not the same as being forced. However, the results were striking. Just like choosing to fast from food, choosing to fast from social interaction caused similar cravings in the subjects.

8bitsrule 6y ago

People whose chosen occupations require a lot of time away from people they know well -- authors, artists, explorers, prospectors and geologists, traveling musicians and salespersons, fur trappers, truckers for example -- probably cope better with social distancing. Being isolated for long periods can lead us to difficulty articulating our thoughts well. The 'gears get rusty'. Not so much for authors I'd guess ... but a fading ability to connect no doubt leaves many increasingly frustrated and feeling even more isolated. I'd guess that, for desert travelers, the word 'oasis' meant a lot more than just water.

danybittel 6y ago

I call bullshit. I stopped reading at the setup: "the researchers had 40 socially-connected healthy human adults spend 10 hours (9am to 7pm) alone, with no social interaction and no other social stimulation (e.g., twitter, email, reading fiction)." All they did was deprive them of social media. I think it's well known by now that this is a source of dopamin.

ddeck 6y ago
Additionally, they also forced them to get up in the early morning on the social isolation day, locked them in an unfamiliar room, and gave them close to nothing to do: On the day of the isolation session, participants arrived at the McGovern Institute for Brain Research, MIT building 46, at 8.15am...Subsequently, participants gave their phones and laptops to the experimenter and were guided to a room containing an armchair, a desk and office chair, and a fridge with a selection of food, snacks and beverages. Participants remained in that room from 9am until 7pm. [1] It's not clear to me why reading material was withheld. It seems to make it harder to draw conclusions regarding the social isolation aspect. For the fasting session, they only had to report for the 7pm fMRI session. It strikes me that the type of people with time to participate in an experiment like this likely correlates with people that get up later than 6-7am each morning (as would have been required for the isolation session), but it seems there wasn't any accounting for possible sleep deprivation effects. [1] https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.25.006643v2.full.pdf https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.25.006643v2....