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The vitamin d connection might partially also explain why Sweden has a higher mortality rate than its neighboring countries, because Sweden has accepted more im

The vitamin d connection might partially also explain why Sweden has a higher mortality rate than its neighboring countries, because Sweden has accepted more immigrants

TheHypnotist 6y ago
You and OP mention Vitamin D as a possible rationale for the differences. But, what about countries like Mexico? No shortage of sun there.
vanderZwan 6y ago
Vitamin D supplements and fortifications in food are commonplace here though, so that would have to be compared to actual vitamin D levels to know for sure
sadfklsjlkjwt 6y ago
Or it could be because Sweden has reacted far less than us... There are plenty of dark skinned Norwegians, Finns and Danes these days.
KingOfCoders 6y ago
I guess everyone finds the explanation that suits his beliefs best.
FredrikMeyer 6y ago
It is quite obvious that the reasons Sweden has > 3000 deaths and Norway has less than 300 is because of much less severe restrictions. Sweden has twice the population, but quite similar demographics.
- lsllc 6y ago
  Not sure it's that simple. Massachusetts has a population of 6.7M and 7152 deaths (average age 82) with a lockdown. Sweden has a pop. of 10M with 3K deaths. Florida has a pop. of 20M with 2566 deaths and not much of a lockdown. It seems to me that the death rate is a function of how well protected the elderly are and in particular if C19 has gotten into long term care homes as it has in MA (62% of MA C19 deaths in long term care homes) and I think Sweden, but Florida locked down its LTC homes at the beginning of March. https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2020/05/26/nursing-homes-assisted-living-facilities-0-6-of-the-u-s-population-43-of-u-s-covid-19-deaths/#754a60b474cd https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2020/05/26/nursin...
  - stevoo 6y ago
    It is not as clear cut as this. Massachusetts has a population of 6.7M and 7152 deaths. Sweden has a pop. of 10M with 3K deaths. Massachusetts is approximately 20,306 sq km, while Sweden is approximately 450,295 sq km, making Sweden 2,118% larger than Massachusetts. So the 10M residents of Sweden are much more spread than in MA. Also MA was late in how they have dealt with Covid and the number of cases was progressing much faster.
    - nradov 6y ago
      It's not that simple. Population density numbers don't tell us anything useful at the national level. Most Swedes are clustered into a few urban areas.
      - anthonypasq 6y ago
        ok then look at the stats in Stockholm
    - kwhitefoot 6y ago
      > the 10M residents of Sweden are much more spread than in MA. Probably not. Swedes are a fairly urban people, many living in blocks of flats in cities. Here is what Wikipedia has to say about Stockholm: Population (31 December 2019)[3][4][5] • Capital city 975,904 • Density 5,200/km2 (13,000/sq mi) • Urban[6] 1,605,030 • Urban density 4,200/km2 (11,000/sq mi) • Metro 2,377,081 • Metro density 360/km2 (940/sq mi) And here is Boston: Population (2019)[2][3][4][5][6] • City 692,600 • Density 14,344/sq mi (5,538/km2) • Urban 4,180,000 (US: 10th) • Metro 4,628,910 (US: 10th)[1] So Sweden might be twenty times the size but the urban population density is not so wildly different.
  - adventured 6y ago
    Texas is an even more dramatic example. 29 million people with only 1,734 deaths, and 4 of the 11 largest US cities. If you scale Norway to Texas on population, you would get 1,000 deaths. If you scale Finland to Texas, you would get 1,700 deaths. Texas did as well as Finland with five times the population, with barely any lockdown. It's the climate. The same reason Greece did so well. The same reason Rome didn't get hit like Milan (when it should have been hit far worse). It's why all of San Diego County only has 283 deaths with a population of 3.3 million. And it's why formerly hard hit locations are starting to open up: their temperatures have climbed enough to slow the virus. NYC will be fully open this Summer and yet the virus won't be ravaging the city like it previously did, and this is why. The Italian doctor - Alberto Zangrillo - that recently made headlines by saying the virus was fading in potency? That's the higher temperatures reducing the potential of the virus to transmit, it's reducing the viral loads they're seeing. We already knew to expect this, that's why numerous experts were predicting the virus would fade as the seasons changed and temps climbed.
- ceilingcorner 6y ago
  Sweden has much more of an immigrant / foreign-born parent population. About 25%-30% vs. 13-15%. As of 2017, Statistics Sweden reported that around 2,439,007 or 24.1% of the inhabitants of Sweden were from a foreign background: that is, each such person either had been born abroad or had been born in Sweden to two parents who themselves had both been born abroad.[22] Also taking into account people with only one parent born abroad, this number increases to almost a third in 2017. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden#Migration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden#Migrati... Immigrants constituted 13% of the population at the start of 2015, and an additional 2.6% were born in Norway by immigrant parents[12] (up from 8,3% and 1,5% in 2006[13]). The same year, 19% of births in Norway were to immigrant parents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Norway#Ethnicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Norway#Ethnici...
  - ikeyany 6y ago
    GP isn't denying they have more immigrants, they are saying it makes more sense to point to their reaction to the pandemic than to point at their number of immigrants. This explanation is both more simple and it doesn't have strange racist undertones.
    - ceilingcorner 6y ago
      I was just replying to the idea that the demographics are the same.
    - evbpcapfxy 6y ago
      Pointing out an observation in relation biology and vitamin d production, even if totally incorrect, does not mean it's racist. If anything, if someone with darker skin living in Sweden would get their vitamin d levels checked and correct it because the comment above, it would help them.
      - ikeyany 6y ago
        > Sweden has much more of an immigrant / foreign-born parent population. This was said in response to the statement that Sweden has 10x more deaths than Norway.
- cjericsson 6y ago
  Most cases in Sweden are in the age groups >70 since the elder care homes and elder care workers. The situation would probably be very different if they have the equipment and training to deal with it. Many were even threatened to be fired if they put on face masks.
77pt77 6y ago
Norway has similar ratios for immigration and lower mortality. It's not that. Sweden tested a lax social distancing approach and it backfired.

The vitamin d connection might partially also explain why Sweden has a higher mortality rate than its neighboring countries, because Sweden has accepted more immigrants

TheHypnotist 6y ago

You and OP mention Vitamin D as a possible rationale for the differences. But, what about countries like Mexico? No shortage of sun there.

vanderZwan 6y ago

Vitamin D supplements and fortifications in food are commonplace here though, so that would have to be compared to actual vitamin D levels to know for sure

sadfklsjlkjwt 6y ago

Or it could be because Sweden has reacted far less than us... There are plenty of dark skinned Norwegians, Finns and Danes these days.

KingOfCoders 6y ago

I guess everyone finds the explanation that suits his beliefs best.

FredrikMeyer 6y ago

It is quite obvious that the reasons Sweden has > 3000 deaths and Norway has less than 300 is because of much less severe restrictions. Sweden has twice the population, but quite similar demographics.

lsllc 6y ago
Not sure it's that simple. Massachusetts has a population of 6.7M and 7152 deaths (average age 82) with a lockdown. Sweden has a pop. of 10M with 3K deaths. Florida has a pop. of 20M with 2566 deaths and not much of a lockdown. It seems to me that the death rate is a function of how well protected the elderly are and in particular if C19 has gotten into long term care homes as it has in MA (62% of MA C19 deaths in long term care homes) and I think Sweden, but Florida locked down its LTC homes at the beginning of March. https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2020/05/26/nursing-homes-assisted-living-facilities-0-6-of-the-u-s-population-43-of-u-s-covid-19-deaths/#754a60b474cd https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2020/05/26/nursin...
- stevoo 6y ago
  It is not as clear cut as this. Massachusetts has a population of 6.7M and 7152 deaths. Sweden has a pop. of 10M with 3K deaths. Massachusetts is approximately 20,306 sq km, while Sweden is approximately 450,295 sq km, making Sweden 2,118% larger than Massachusetts. So the 10M residents of Sweden are much more spread than in MA. Also MA was late in how they have dealt with Covid and the number of cases was progressing much faster.
  - nradov 6y ago
    It's not that simple. Population density numbers don't tell us anything useful at the national level. Most Swedes are clustered into a few urban areas.
    - anthonypasq 6y ago
      ok then look at the stats in Stockholm
  - kwhitefoot 6y ago
    > the 10M residents of Sweden are much more spread than in MA. Probably not. Swedes are a fairly urban people, many living in blocks of flats in cities. Here is what Wikipedia has to say about Stockholm: Population (31 December 2019)[3][4][5] • Capital city 975,904 • Density 5,200/km2 (13,000/sq mi) • Urban[6] 1,605,030 • Urban density 4,200/km2 (11,000/sq mi) • Metro 2,377,081 • Metro density 360/km2 (940/sq mi) And here is Boston: Population (2019)[2][3][4][5][6] • City 692,600 • Density 14,344/sq mi (5,538/km2) • Urban 4,180,000 (US: 10th) • Metro 4,628,910 (US: 10th)[1] So Sweden might be twenty times the size but the urban population density is not so wildly different.
- adventured 6y ago
  Texas is an even more dramatic example. 29 million people with only 1,734 deaths, and 4 of the 11 largest US cities. If you scale Norway to Texas on population, you would get 1,000 deaths. If you scale Finland to Texas, you would get 1,700 deaths. Texas did as well as Finland with five times the population, with barely any lockdown. It's the climate. The same reason Greece did so well. The same reason Rome didn't get hit like Milan (when it should have been hit far worse). It's why all of San Diego County only has 283 deaths with a population of 3.3 million. And it's why formerly hard hit locations are starting to open up: their temperatures have climbed enough to slow the virus. NYC will be fully open this Summer and yet the virus won't be ravaging the city like it previously did, and this is why. The Italian doctor - Alberto Zangrillo - that recently made headlines by saying the virus was fading in potency? That's the higher temperatures reducing the potential of the virus to transmit, it's reducing the viral loads they're seeing. We already knew to expect this, that's why numerous experts were predicting the virus would fade as the seasons changed and temps climbed.
ceilingcorner 6y ago
Sweden has much more of an immigrant / foreign-born parent population. About 25%-30% vs. 13-15%. As of 2017, Statistics Sweden reported that around 2,439,007 or 24.1% of the inhabitants of Sweden were from a foreign background: that is, each such person either had been born abroad or had been born in Sweden to two parents who themselves had both been born abroad.[22] Also taking into account people with only one parent born abroad, this number increases to almost a third in 2017. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden#Migration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden#Migrati... Immigrants constituted 13% of the population at the start of 2015, and an additional 2.6% were born in Norway by immigrant parents[12] (up from 8,3% and 1,5% in 2006[13]). The same year, 19% of births in Norway were to immigrant parents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Norway#Ethnicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Norway#Ethnici...
- ikeyany 6y ago
  GP isn't denying they have more immigrants, they are saying it makes more sense to point to their reaction to the pandemic than to point at their number of immigrants. This explanation is both more simple and it doesn't have strange racist undertones.
  - ceilingcorner 6y ago
    I was just replying to the idea that the demographics are the same.
  - evbpcapfxy 6y ago
    Pointing out an observation in relation biology and vitamin d production, even if totally incorrect, does not mean it's racist. If anything, if someone with darker skin living in Sweden would get their vitamin d levels checked and correct it because the comment above, it would help them.
    - ikeyany 6y ago
      > Sweden has much more of an immigrant / foreign-born parent population. This was said in response to the statement that Sweden has 10x more deaths than Norway.
cjericsson 6y ago
Most cases in Sweden are in the age groups >70 since the elder care homes and elder care workers. The situation would probably be very different if they have the equipment and training to deal with it. Many were even threatened to be fired if they put on face masks.

77pt77 6y ago

Norway has similar ratios for immigration and lower mortality. It's not that. Sweden tested a lax social distancing approach and it backfired.