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> Why, though? Does your average iPhone user actually care if the bubbles they see in their chats are blue or green? If so, why? They definitely do. Not sure w

> Why, though? Does your average iPhone user actually care if the bubbles they see in their chats are blue or green? If so, why? They definitely do. Not sure what your age or demographic is, but young folks do care a lot about higher social status which is tied to blue bubble because of iPhone prices. It has nothing to do with privacy though.

spideymans 6y ago
They care because the green bubbles indicate a severely impaired user experience. For example, multimedia may not work, and even if it does, its typically very poor quality.
- collegeburner 6y ago
  HS senior here. Maybe a little, but it's mostly status/class. It's the twenty-first century equivalent of wearing expensive clothes to school.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    I don't see how it conveys status when used iPhones are cheap, and brand new ones start at $400 now. My lowest paid hourly employees all have iPhones, even the ones who don't speak English.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      But iPhones sell themselves as expensive, and that's really what lingers in people's consciousness, doesn't it?
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        No? Something serves as a status signal when the person who has it has a high probability of being different from someone who doesn’t. A private jet is a status symbol because you have a high probability of assuming the person who owns it has a level of wealth or influence that most don’t. A degree from Caltech has status compared to a degree from random college because there’s a high probability the Caltech degree holder is more competent. An iMessage chat tells me nothing about the socioeconomic characteristics of the owner of the iOS device, unless I am missing something. Edit: although, now that I have read this whole thread, I am thinking that maybe it’s not the economic status people are looking for, but are somehow deriving some assumption about their “socio” part of “socioeconomic” status, as a non iOS user is perceived to be maybe “different” or “weird” in some way for not conforming and having an Android versus an iOS device. I personally have never thought that, since I use Signal/WhatsApp/iMessage, and if you don’t have iMessage, I just use one of the other two, and I don’t care. But evidently, some people do.
    - fulafel 6y ago
      You are talking about people with jobs.
    - tomc1985 6y ago
      Nobody's paying street price for an iphone in that demo. They get it with their contract
    - copperx 6y ago
      Status signaling might be a thing in certain circles (middle school and high school), but I think it's simpler than that. It's about being in or out. People might have gravitated towards iPhones for status signaling in their youth, and by association and inertia, their inner circle uses iPhones. now, as adults, any person coming into the circle needs to conform to the group or be seen as clueless.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      And in the US, all of the major carriers have 0% interest payment plans. The cost difference is basically nothing over 2 years.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Apple itself sells the phone with 0% interest if you were going to buy AppleCare.
philistine 6y ago
You know, for a tech site, people sure do love to forget that iMessage is preferred because it brings features instead of mere social status.
- harpratap 6y ago
  Whatsapp brings the same features, if not more. iMessage craze is a purely American phenomenon, the rest of the world has moved on to other IMs
  - klodolph 6y ago
    Every part of the world has its own messaging apps. Depending on where you live, it might be WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, WeChat, LINE, or I’m sure others. In Europe I know for a fact that the popular app varies from country to country. So you could just as easily dismiss LINE as a “purely Japanese phenomenon” but the fact is each app is popular in a certain part of the world. Because network effects are more important than UX or features.
    - harpratap 6y ago
      Sure it does, but cross platform IMs are not so socially discriminating. You can easily download LINE and move on with your life in Japan. But getting iMessage is an economic barrier for many, for which they end up being socially ostraostracized
      - paulcarroty 6y ago
        > But getting iMessage is an economic barrier for many economic barrier to buy ~$100 used iphone on ebay?
        ripdog 6y ago
        Are you really going to buy, charge, supply with data and carry around a second phone, no matter how cheap, just so you can send blue messages? That attitude is, like many american ideas, really whack.
jamescostian 6y ago
I'm 22 and live in a mid-sized city, and I've seen people trying to get into a relationship (or even something more casual, but not a platonic friendship) get rejected because of the dreaded "green bubbles" - and really, I'm not exaggerating. And not from rich people who have the latest iPhone either. In addition, I have been in friend groups that would exclude Android users because if you have even 1 Android user in a group chat on iMessage, you lose tons of features, like the ability to name the group chat (I'm being completely serious here; this was considered an important thing). The work around was "we'll take you out of this chat, and if something important happens someone will send you a text" - of course, it's not very easy to always remember to send that person an SMS, so they end up _very_ left out of things. This has also happened with middle-class people.
- aaomidi 6y ago
  More of a reason not to be friends with them.
  - M5x7wI3CmbEem10 6y ago
    You can’t expect full commitment from people you may not know too well. The UI/UX benefits outweigh acquaintances, not friends. Unfortunately, acquaintanceship is a prerequisite to friendship.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Sadly, this is not how relationships work and exactly how entrenched social networks come into existence.
    - aaomidi 6y ago
      In a way, toxic behavior like this is an indicator of how your future relationship with this person will go. If they're going to be this basic, then I'm probably going to extrapolate how these people will behave in the future. Although, maybe thats why I only have a very few select close friends.
  - 6y ago
013a 6y ago
People definitely do. The worst part is, an excellent upgrade exists. The RCS experience between Android users is pretty much as good as iMessage. Apple could support this; not to replace iMessage, but to upgrade SMS conversations. My tech-illiterate mom's Galaxy S negative 12 has it. Of my contacts, every single Android user I text (maybe a dozen) has RCS. Its standard. When I put my iPhone XS and my S20 Plus side-by-side; chatting with Android users using rich text via RCS; animations at 120hz on a display so blindingly bright the brightness slider turns red at the end; so seamless with the device's edges its like looking through a portal; unlocking with a sonic sub-pixel fingerprint reader; swiping notifications away at a rate the iPhone can't approach; charging my computer keyboard, mouse, phone, laptop, and smartwatch with the same cable... I've religiously used both iPhone and Android, I switch every year, and the iPhone feels like its years behind Samsung right now. Its not close.
- schoolornot 6y ago
  RCS: no e2e, multi-device support, or any 3rd party application APIs on Android. In other words, gimped by Google. Google's messaging department has been chasing it's tail for 10 years. Unless they clone iMessage from the inside out, RCS has no hope. Personally, I want to see RCS fail. It's a lousy spec with few privacy protections built-in. I had it enabled on my phone for a while and there was no indication as to whether my messages were passing through my carrier's servers or Google's RCS endpoint.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago
    Google's been unable to build a iMessage competitor because they don't have the same leverage with the phone carriers that Apple does - because they don't even sell what few phones they manufacture in the carrier's stores. They built out a technology and gave carriers the option to implement it themselves, or they could just piggyback on Google's servers. Carriers obviously opted to implement it themselves because they don't want to become dumb pipes, then dragged their feet for years. As I understand it, Google wants to get a basic version in place with all the major carriers first, then start rolling out many of the other features you've mentioned. Apple's been holding out on supporting it because it's not encrypted, but it'll be interesting to see how they respond to carrier-wide adoption of encrypted RCS when that comes. Will iMessage chats fall back to RCS with Android phones? Or will they continue to fall back to unencrypted oldschool SMS?
jki275 6y ago
It’s a bit more than that though - try to send a picture to an Android user. It will work sometimes. Sometimes it won’t. No rhyme or reason and no way to control it. Send a picture to another iPhone - works exactly as expected every time.
patentatt 6y ago
It’s not just social status. It works much much better than SMS, it’s a superior experience and interacting with green bubble folk ruins it. I’m not particularly young or concerned at all with social status, but I urge people in my circles to just get iPhones because of iMessage and FaceTime. Both vastly superior experiences to any alternatives available.

spideymans 6y ago

They care because the green bubbles indicate a severely impaired user experience. For example, multimedia may not work, and even if it does, its typically very poor quality.

collegeburner 6y ago
HS senior here. Maybe a little, but it's mostly status/class. It's the twenty-first century equivalent of wearing expensive clothes to school.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  I don't see how it conveys status when used iPhones are cheap, and brand new ones start at $400 now. My lowest paid hourly employees all have iPhones, even the ones who don't speak English.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    But iPhones sell themselves as expensive, and that's really what lingers in people's consciousness, doesn't it?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      No? Something serves as a status signal when the person who has it has a high probability of being different from someone who doesn’t. A private jet is a status symbol because you have a high probability of assuming the person who owns it has a level of wealth or influence that most don’t. A degree from Caltech has status compared to a degree from random college because there’s a high probability the Caltech degree holder is more competent. An iMessage chat tells me nothing about the socioeconomic characteristics of the owner of the iOS device, unless I am missing something. Edit: although, now that I have read this whole thread, I am thinking that maybe it’s not the economic status people are looking for, but are somehow deriving some assumption about their “socio” part of “socioeconomic” status, as a non iOS user is perceived to be maybe “different” or “weird” in some way for not conforming and having an Android versus an iOS device. I personally have never thought that, since I use Signal/WhatsApp/iMessage, and if you don’t have iMessage, I just use one of the other two, and I don’t care. But evidently, some people do.
  - fulafel 6y ago
    You are talking about people with jobs.
  - tomc1985 6y ago
    Nobody's paying street price for an iphone in that demo. They get it with their contract
  - copperx 6y ago
    Status signaling might be a thing in certain circles (middle school and high school), but I think it's simpler than that. It's about being in or out. People might have gravitated towards iPhones for status signaling in their youth, and by association and inertia, their inner circle uses iPhones. now, as adults, any person coming into the circle needs to conform to the group or be seen as clueless.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    And in the US, all of the major carriers have 0% interest payment plans. The cost difference is basically nothing over 2 years.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Apple itself sells the phone with 0% interest if you were going to buy AppleCare.

philistine 6y ago

You know, for a tech site, people sure do love to forget that iMessage is preferred because it brings features instead of mere social status.

harpratap 6y ago
Whatsapp brings the same features, if not more. iMessage craze is a purely American phenomenon, the rest of the world has moved on to other IMs
- klodolph 6y ago
  Every part of the world has its own messaging apps. Depending on where you live, it might be WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, WeChat, LINE, or I’m sure others. In Europe I know for a fact that the popular app varies from country to country. So you could just as easily dismiss LINE as a “purely Japanese phenomenon” but the fact is each app is popular in a certain part of the world. Because network effects are more important than UX or features.
  - harpratap 6y ago
    Sure it does, but cross platform IMs are not so socially discriminating. You can easily download LINE and move on with your life in Japan. But getting iMessage is an economic barrier for many, for which they end up being socially ostraostracized
    - paulcarroty 6y ago
      > But getting iMessage is an economic barrier for many economic barrier to buy ~$100 used iphone on ebay?
      - ripdog 6y ago
        Are you really going to buy, charge, supply with data and carry around a second phone, no matter how cheap, just so you can send blue messages? That attitude is, like many american ideas, really whack.

jamescostian 6y ago

I'm 22 and live in a mid-sized city, and I've seen people trying to get into a relationship (or even something more casual, but not a platonic friendship) get rejected because of the dreaded "green bubbles" - and really, I'm not exaggerating. And not from rich people who have the latest iPhone either. In addition, I have been in friend groups that would exclude Android users because if you have even 1 Android user in a group chat on iMessage, you lose tons of features, like the ability to name the group chat (I'm being completely serious here; this was considered an important thing). The work around was "we'll take you out of this chat, and if something important happens someone will send you a text" - of course, it's not very easy to always remember to send that person an SMS, so they end up _very_ left out of things. This has also happened with middle-class people.

aaomidi 6y ago
More of a reason not to be friends with them.
- M5x7wI3CmbEem10 6y ago
  You can’t expect full commitment from people you may not know too well. The UI/UX benefits outweigh acquaintances, not friends. Unfortunately, acquaintanceship is a prerequisite to friendship.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Sadly, this is not how relationships work and exactly how entrenched social networks come into existence.
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    In a way, toxic behavior like this is an indicator of how your future relationship with this person will go. If they're going to be this basic, then I'm probably going to extrapolate how these people will behave in the future. Although, maybe thats why I only have a very few select close friends.
- 6y ago

013a 6y ago

People definitely do. The worst part is, an excellent upgrade exists. The RCS experience between Android users is pretty much as good as iMessage. Apple could support this; not to replace iMessage, but to upgrade SMS conversations. My tech-illiterate mom's Galaxy S negative 12 has it. Of my contacts, every single Android user I text (maybe a dozen) has RCS. Its standard. When I put my iPhone XS and my S20 Plus side-by-side; chatting with Android users using rich text via RCS; animations at 120hz on a display so blindingly bright the brightness slider turns red at the end; so seamless with the device's edges its like looking through a portal; unlocking with a sonic sub-pixel fingerprint reader; swiping notifications away at a rate the iPhone can't approach; charging my computer keyboard, mouse, phone, laptop, and smartwatch with the same cable... I've religiously used both iPhone and Android, I switch every year, and the iPhone feels like its years behind Samsung right now. Its not close.

schoolornot 6y ago
RCS: no e2e, multi-device support, or any 3rd party application APIs on Android. In other words, gimped by Google. Google's messaging department has been chasing it's tail for 10 years. Unless they clone iMessage from the inside out, RCS has no hope. Personally, I want to see RCS fail. It's a lousy spec with few privacy protections built-in. I had it enabled on my phone for a while and there was no indication as to whether my messages were passing through my carrier's servers or Google's RCS endpoint.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago
  Google's been unable to build a iMessage competitor because they don't have the same leverage with the phone carriers that Apple does - because they don't even sell what few phones they manufacture in the carrier's stores. They built out a technology and gave carriers the option to implement it themselves, or they could just piggyback on Google's servers. Carriers obviously opted to implement it themselves because they don't want to become dumb pipes, then dragged their feet for years. As I understand it, Google wants to get a basic version in place with all the major carriers first, then start rolling out many of the other features you've mentioned. Apple's been holding out on supporting it because it's not encrypted, but it'll be interesting to see how they respond to carrier-wide adoption of encrypted RCS when that comes. Will iMessage chats fall back to RCS with Android phones? Or will they continue to fall back to unencrypted oldschool SMS?

jki275 6y ago

It’s a bit more than that though - try to send a picture to an Android user. It will work sometimes. Sometimes it won’t. No rhyme or reason and no way to control it. Send a picture to another iPhone - works exactly as expected every time.

patentatt 6y ago

It’s not just social status. It works much much better than SMS, it’s a superior experience and interacting with green bubble folk ruins it. I’m not particularly young or concerned at all with social status, but I urge people in my circles to just get iPhones because of iMessage and FaceTime. Both vastly superior experiences to any alternatives available.