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Lenovo to Certify ThinkPad and ThinkStation Workstation Portfolio for Linux

379 points by tpush 6y ago

simplecto 6y ago
This is great news. Honestly I've never had a problem with Ubuntu on machines that are just a 1-year or older. There are so many i7 laptops in the secondary market that work perfectly.
- danielscrubs 6y ago
  Graphics drivers and WiFi drivers never worked without significant pampering for me in Ubuntu, and I've been using Linux for 15 years. Just last week I updated my working Nvidia drivers for my RTX 2070 card via Ubuntus GUI and lo and behold after restart the screen is just black. It's at a point where I just want it to get a working system and never update it, security and performance be damned. I know how to fix it because this has happened with pretty much all graphic cards I've had, I'll have to go into and mess with the grub config, make it run in safe mode, restart, try another grub config, restart, find out it doesn't work, run safe mode and reinstall the old drivers, cross my finger and wonder where my Saturday went. Gentoo was the most reliant by a long shot (maybe for the simple reason it always asked if it should replace my config), but that is a time sink in whole other league. Have heard good things about Fedora lately, but I dread throwing away the Debian knowledge I amassed.
  - Lio 6y ago
    I guess it’s all about choice of hardware now. If you use components designed to support Linux life will be pretty smooth. I’m sure someone will point out the nvidia has a reputation for being linux hostile which does limit your choice a bit. Currently running Fedora on an XPS13 Dev edition laptop. Wayland, Gnome and Firefox are working together very nicely. Mixed HiDPI with standard seems to be solved now. I’ve seen the odd glitch where an app gets confused as you move from one screen to another but overall very good. Trackpad latency is improving but still not quite perfect. The fact that it’s close and constantly improving though makes me very positive about using Linux in place of my MBP full time. I actually miss the Gnome window management shortcuts when I move back to my Mac.
    - teruakohatu 6y ago
      Has Wayland figured out how to allow users to take screenshots? I would like to switch to Linux/Wayland from my mac but I need to share screenshots with co-workers.
      - Vogtinator 6y ago
        I've been using the Plasma Wayland session for quite some time now and screenshots have been working fine basically from the start and some time ago screensharing with pipewire got implemented. Chromium and krfb support that, so both WebRTC and VNC work as expected.
      - vetinari 6y ago
        You can take screenshots under Wayland, you just can not use random X11 tool that you were used to. All Wayland compositors come with some tool, that can take screenshots.
        RMPR 6y ago
        The real issue is the clipboard which gets cleaned after closing the Window from where you copied.
        vetinari 6y ago
        I would guess that the format negotiation for clipboard data has something to do with that. You cannot negotiate when the originating app is not there anymore. But then, is it a real problem? I understand, that some users might be inconvenienced by that, because they got used to it in their workflow... but is it really a showstopper?
  - mssdvd 6y ago
    Nowadays systemd distros like Fedora and Debian are quite similar.
  - vetinari 6y ago
    > Graphics drivers and WiFi drivers never worked without significant pampering > my RTX 2070 I still do not understand, why you folks with Nvidia hardware expect it to work out of the box in Linux, when there have been two decades of experience that Nvidia doesn't care about that and won't allow anyone to do anything with that. So no, your RTX won't work as nice OOTB as Intel and AMD GPUs do. It will continue to be the case while you continue to give them money for them ignoring you.
    - fungi 6y ago
      Unfortunately AMD doesn't really compete in the machine learning space. Hopefully one day ROCm will offer a viable alternative but until then we are pretty much captive.
      - vetinari 6y ago
        If you really need nvidia so badly, put that GPU into headless machine, where you don't need any UI. Otherwise, you will be frustrated on desktop and it still won't work out of the box.
        beojan 6y ago
        Or just use integrated graphics for the desktop, and reserve the GPU for GPGPU work.
        vetinari 6y ago
        Yes, that would be an option too.
        Havoc 6y ago
        >put that GPU into headless machine Possibly one of the saddest solutions ever proposed. Besides then one can’t game on it
        vetinari 6y ago
  - panpanna 6y ago
    Ubuntu has been plug and play for me the last 4-5 years. It even supports devices no longer working on Macs and windows without any user interaction. Of course, high-end nvidia boards seem to have all kind of problem. Stay away from Nvidia if you are a Linux user.
  - rkangel 6y ago
    My approach to Linux laptops: * Buy Lenovo * Have integrated graphics (i.e. Intel) * Run Fedora This combination has, for a few years now, given me excellent reliability 'out of the box'. I don't have to do anything and everything from the fingerprint scanner to the wifi Just Works. There's still a bit of a battery life penalty compared to Windows, but it's not enormous.
    - easytiger 6y ago
      This has been a source of much consternation. Basically want a 15" x1 Carbon without any of the complications of the dual GPU laptops. But no one seems to make it. I guess to push margins up they force higher prices on larger laptops as they become more "niche"
      - smichel17 6y ago
        I ran into the same issue when I was in the market for a laptop a year or two ago. In particular, it's difficult to find a 15" laptop with a 1920x1080 matte screen that doesn't have a dual gpu setup. I was also looking for something that wouldn't break the bank. I ended up getting an ASUS f510ua (cheap variant with a 1TB 5200rpm hdd) and adding a 256GB m.2 ssd for my boot drive. 8GB ram and an i5 8250U. Found a deal on the laptop so the total cost ended up ~$600 USD, although I think m.2 ssds are cheaper now. I've been pretty happy with the performance; it's just enough to comfortably do Android dev (I use vim though, not Android Studio). The aspect I had to compromise on was build quality. The body is plastic and especially the screen has little reinforcement to bending specifically. It's not completely flimsy but I don't like carrying it around open in crowded/public spaces where it's more likely I'll bump into something and I wouldn't bet on it surviving a fall unscathed (my previous laptop, a Dell XPS 14, did exactly that, from college dorm bed to uncarpeted floor). It has also grown a single dead pixel, that I don't notice in regular use. I expected the build quality going in, and overall I'm pretty happy with the purchase. I used it for 8+ hours daily for 9 months when I was separated from my desktop.
        easytiger 6y ago
        Interesting. I was considering a more budget end laptop but was worried about the build quality. When I try most laptops in shops they feel terrible to be honest. My first laptop was an Asus. To be fair it was as well speced as laptops 2 years later but the screen bowed in the middle. How's the keyboard on those Asus laptops?
  - fungi 6y ago
    Thanks Nvidia. There is little Linux can do with out sacrificing a lot (principles and technical). It's a pita, _hopefully_ one day AMD and ROCm will be a viable alternative.
  - simion314 6y ago
    About your driver upgrade? Did you installed a driver PPA and installed some driver that was not guaranteed to work or it was a Ubuntu bug, you did your regular updates (no PPA) and it broke your system? I also had this issues because I wanted to try newer drivers, it is expected if the new driver does not work I go in terminal and install the previous working version. I personally prefer how easy is to test different driver version in Linux while in Windows I needed to make an account to upgrade my NVIDIA drivers(maybe you can avoid creating an account I am not 100% sure but at that time I was dual booting to play some game and I did not had a weekend to spend o how to upgrade my drivers without an account ... in the end I could not solve the issue where Oblivion had a black screen and I played it with Wine in Linux)
  - gerdesj 6y ago
    "Gentoo was the most reliant by a long shot (maybe for the simple reason it always asked if it should replace my config), but that is a time sink in whole other league." I think I can see Arch showing off a bit of ankle at you. Think of Arch as a bit like Gentoo without the burning lap.
    - h91wka 6y ago
      I have used both Arch and Gentoo, and the only similarity between them is steep learning curve. They are based on completely different tech (pacman vs. portage, systemd vs. openrc) and philosophy, they pursue completely different goals and solve different problems (or, rather, I hesitate to give a quick answer what problem does Arch solve, unlike Gentoo that gives the ability to customize the system all the way down, for a hefty price, of course).
    - blaser-waffle 6y ago
      If I was still in college I'd be trying to trick out an Arch build and post screenshots of my hyper-cool DE. But now I'm a fatass network engineer and I don't have the desire to spend an iota of energy doing config work outside of actual paid work. Ubuntu and Fedora just work, and only require a heafty apt/yum one-liner to make everything work. Arch is awesome -- the Arch Wiki is useful even for non-Arch users -- but ain't no body got time for that.
      - gerdesj 6y ago
        I'm a company director (MD) and I do not spend much time fiddling with my gear. I expect it to simply work and it does. I document my builds/configurations in both my corp wiki and the Arch wiki (stuff that is generic.) On a Fri afternoon I run "yay -Syu" and reboot. I deploy Ubuntu minimal for servers. I document those as well. My personal systems are not exciting. I login with Active Directory creds and I have an Exchange account for email. I just happen to have multiple CAD apps available and lots of other stuff out of the box. When I update my PCs/laptops the whole lot update and off I trot. I get the occasional bit of breakage but because Arch is rolling it is only a small problem at a time and not a massive total meltdown. I'm 50 next year - I studied Civ Eng at college. I am a fat ass PHB and sysadmin all in one package. I should also point out that my company is running reasonably happily despite SARS-CoV-2, so I think me and my two partners have done a reasonable job of the PHB thing. We still have all of our 20 employees and expect to come out with a (low n) £n00,000 loss on the books due to a virus. Happily we had >£n00,000 in the bank before hand to deal with unforeseen cash flow snags because we are boring and like to sleep at night. To summarise: Don't diss Arch (or Gentoo) as a silly ricer distro. If you approach a problem with a true engineer's attitude and an open mind then unlikely solutions can arise. Also, keep some cash under the mattress for a rainy day.
  - thdrdt 6y ago
    Some days ago I installed Ubuntu on a system with a RTX 2070 super. There were no problems at all with the Nvidia driver. But it was a kind of miracle it worked out of the box. Because before that I had to manually fix the Wi-Fi driver. Hardware changes sometimes turn into a hell on Linux (Ubuntu). But I still won't go to Windows or MacOS. I just like the freedom of Linux. And when things are working, most of the time they keep working. On an other pc I have over 6 years of Ubuntu upgrades and it is still running fine.
maxwellito 6y ago
Fantastic news! I hope a lot of other manufacturers will follow!
dempseye 6y ago
Is Nvidia Optimus going to work or will it still require a dirty hack? Will you have to choose between decent battery life and the ability to use an external monitor? I bought an X1 Extreme and even with Pop!_OS it is incredibly annoying.
- paines 6y ago
  Dirty hack, like bumblebee? Well since driver 440.44 this kind of thing is incooperated into the nvidia driver itself. You can use it on demand. It idles at around 1w and is used for some physics and other decoding capabilities if i recall correctly. If you want to run a game or an app using nvidia you prepend it with an environment variable, otherwise intel gfx is used. It's not dirty, and works quite well imho... To make it more convenient:there are even extensions for gnome to say use nvidia with this and that app... Sure, to have the nvidia card kick in triggered by the OS somehow when really needed would be the non-plus ultra, but come on, this is science fiction :D
  - robin_reala 6y ago
    (ne plus ultra: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ne%20plus%20ultra https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ne%20plus%20ultra)
    - paines 6y ago
      I really meant non-plus-ultra which we use in germany.I thought it's universal among language families.
    - asjw 6y ago
      It's universally non plus ultra http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/non-plus-ultra http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_eng...
      - robin_reala 6y ago
        Oh, OK, TIL. I’ve never heard that!
panpanna 6y ago
Didn't Ubuntu/redhat certify some thinkpads in the past?
- dathinab 6y ago
  Yes a view thinkpads here and there had been somewhat verified. Through I don't remember if it was fully certified. Like I think the fingerprint reader was always excluded from certification.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    Does anyone know what's up with the fingerprint readers? They always seem to need reverse engineering. And once some model is well established, they suddenly switch to a new one... It's happened so many times it just can't be accidental. There are no secrets in the glorified grayscale scanner - why are the drivers never opensourced?
ckastner 6y ago
This is good news, but Lenovo should be lauded even for their current Linux support, which already extends to a great deal of their systems, see [1]. https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426 https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426 By chance, I interacted with one of their devs through the Debian community, and came away very positively surprised. They really seem committed to this.
LaSombra 6y ago
I'm very happy that now we have a choice between Ubuntu and something else.
Jonnax 6y ago
Got a ThinkPad T450 in my cupboard running Ubuntu as a home server. Everything works perfectly. I'd argue that thinkpads aren't stylish, but they're bricks that work well.
- dghf 6y ago
  L430 here. It's not pretty, but it's solid and reliable. And Lenovo's online specs and manuals are excellent.
- nodefourtytwo 6y ago
  I, for one, find Thinkpads gorgeous.
- linker3000 6y ago
  I have a T420 as my non-work laptop. It's running Mint and has been no trouble whatsoever, including close-the-lid sleep and graphics.
- bluedino 6y ago
  Are you using the touchpad, wifi, fingerprint scanner, bluetooth, graphics in your cupboard?
  - Jonnax 6y ago
    Lol, you don't need to be so combative. It used to be my daily driver laptop. And yes. The touchpad, wifi, bluetooth and the GPU (intel) works perfectly. And the laptop doesn't have fingerprint sensor.
prennert 6y ago
After IBM acquired Red Hat I was once asked what I am hoping to come out of this acquisition. My answer was that for me personally the hope was to have more Linux ready machines and laptops available in the end consumer market (i.e. non server, non cloud market). Although the Thinkpads are long not anymore IBM products, somehow I was still hoping for the closer connection between hardware and OS know how in the form of the IBM-Red Hat relationship would trickle through. Seeing Red Hat next to Ubuntu as supported Linux OS makes me think that Red Hat made actually some contributions to making this announcement possible. It's great to see that it's not just one model but all models in all configurations will be supported. This is great news to businesses who need computers only as a gateway to cloud apps. Why would you pay windows licenses (particularly professional), if you can get a decent OS that can be managed better by IT for free? This is will weigh in particularly with cheap machines that are used by office workers in the throughout of the service economy. Edit: maybe this will be the start of the height of the current trend to push all applications into the cloud, which is the SUN workstation 2.0 model. I wonder if the cyclical nature of this trend makes a comeback in the form of bringing cloud compute back to edge devices in 10 years. I would wonder what could drive such a comeback for the average Joe?
- als0 6y ago
  > Although the Thinkpads are long not anymore IBM products, somehow I was still hoping for the closer connection between hardware and OS know how in the form of the IBM-Red Hat relationship would trickle through. Red Hat isn't missing any "know how". They, like any other developer, are missing publicly available data sheets to make everything work out of the box. There's nothing IBM can do to change that since they no longer manufacture PCs.
- amachefe 6y ago
  Just thinking about it, If IBM didnt sell the PC to Lenovo, packaging Fedora/RH with the PC would have been awesome... #justathought
mkj 6y ago
This only says they'll certify ThinkPad P series, which are mobile workstations not the more comfortable laptop ranges. Reading the title you'd think it might be workstations, and all ThinkPads.
throwaway-9320 6y ago
I must point out that this does NOT cover ThinkPad T and X series. From the press release: > Our entire portfolio of ThinkStation and ThinkPad P Series workstations will now be certified via both Red Hat Enterprise Linux and Ubuntu LTS – a long-term, enterprise-stability variant of the popular Ubuntu Linux distribution.
- xkr47 6y ago
  The press release also said "Lenovo is moving to certify the full workstation portfolio for top Linux distributions from Ubuntu® and Red Hat® – every model, every configuration." so I guess the question is: Are only ThinkPad P series laptops considered workstations OR is the plan to bring it to other ThinkPads as well in the long run?
  - miahi 6y ago
    Yes, the P series are considered mobile workstations[1]. T series = business X series = ultraportable [1] https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/c/LAPTOPS#view-all https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/c/LAPTOPS#view-all
- chinathrow 6y ago
  This makes sense. The amount of fine tuning I had to do for my X1 7th generation with Ubuntu 19.10 was almost unbearable. Sound still is not working properly, the internal mic is still not working at all.
  - jjuel 6y ago
    My T480s had 0 issues with Debian 10. It doesn't have a fingerprint reader which I hear is a main bug a boo with Thinkpads.
    - noir_lord 6y ago
      Same with my T470P, it works out the box. The only thing I had to do was compile a module for also so I got high quality aptx Bluetooth for my wireless headphones but that’s an IP issue not something I can blame Fedora or Lenovo for. My T470P with Fedora is as little issue as my work issued 16” MacBook Pro.
tsp 6y ago
Great news! I hope more laptop models will follow.
tannhaeuser 6y ago
ThinkPads, at least the mainstream models, certainly have always worked very well with Linux thanks to the great ThinkPad community who is really passionate about this. I've picked up a cheaper Ryzen E495 in retail a couple months ago because I needed a new notebook asap, and it works flawlessly with Ubuntu 19/20. Better first-party support (like Dell has had for many years now) had been promised for quite a while, so lets see if Lenovo keeps delivering; I'm all for having options. But tbh the Dell I had was hands down a better notebook experience (incomparably better display and trackpad, subjectively better keyboard even though keyboards are considered one of the strong points of ThinkPads). To match a Dell XPS, you have to go for a really premium Carbon X1 which is quite a bit more expensive. Downside with my Dell XPS was that the battery seems to have been broken OOTB and never lived up to Dell's projections, then began to swell so had to be replaced out of warranty.
- foo2020 6y ago
  Can you tell me the model of the Thinkpad that you are using. I am looking to buy one.
  - tannhaeuser 6y ago
    Thinkpad E495 with Ryzen/Vega 3500. Not sure it's still available because it should've been superseeded by the newer Ryzen/Vega 4000 chipset by now? Be sure to put in a 2nd memory stick to not slow it down (see the review on notebookcheck why), and also to have at least 16GB RAM. Edit: I picked mine because it was on stock for take-away (there isn't usually a choice of "pro" notebooks with matte screens in retail); for the same kind of money, you could get better value I think; I had hoped for a little more performance for sure (but it's still a solid workhorse)
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
ledvd 6y ago
I was currently shopping around for a new Laptop, and I really like the T series ones. Unfortunately, it seems they suffer from the throttling issue, which can be mitigated by a fix from the community [1]. I think Lenovo also released a fix for some models. All in all, it's a bit hard to know which models are impacted or not, and I don't want to end up buying one and having to resort to these kind of fixes to have it working correctly. [1]: https://github.com/erpalma/throttled https://github.com/erpalma/throttled
bArray 6y ago
I had a small laugh when I saw that guy in the example image doing the most minimal of work on what is otherwise quite a capable machine [1]. But still, it's cool to see Linux being taken more seriously by vendors. [1] https://news.lenovo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/ThinkPad-P53_Ubuntu-1024x745.jpg https://news.lenovo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/ThinkPad-...
- HeadlessChild 6y ago
  Running Ubuntu 16.10 it looks like (which was released almost 4 years ago).
  - bArray 6y ago
    Hah! I missed that!
tobltobs 6y ago
Instead of this marketing theater, they could help to improve battery life under Linux which still sucks.
exceptione 6y ago
From a quick pass I don't see any mention about the docking stations. I would rather have them start working on the docking station capabilities. Right now my dock doesn't understand how to provide display port capabilities to linux. It is a very expensive USB-hub at this moment when I boot linux.
- Legogris 6y ago
  I had this same issue - if it's the same thing, it turned out that there are firmware issues and that the up-to-date firmware was only available for Windows (this may have changed, it was ~3-4 months ago). Lenovo's officially putting their updates on LVFS, but in practice it seems neglected. I spent a day or two stubbornly trying to extract the updates from the Windows binaries, eventually resorted to booting into Windows and updating firwmares on both laptop and dock that way. No issues since. If it still doesn't work you can fall back on displaylink drivers in a pinch.
  - exceptione 6y ago
    Updating the firmware changed nothing. On the product page I don't see linux compatibility even mentioned.
    - Legogris 6y ago
      That's unfortunate. FWIW I'm using both an old-style dock (ye olde bottom connector) and the Thunderbolt 3 Dock with a T470s and a T480s with Arch and NixOS. Displayport and HDMI both working fine after first doing the latest updates using fwupd and then running additional updates for laptop/controller/dock from Windows (first step probably redundant). If it's the Thunderbolt 3 Dock, it can be worth checking that you're using the right ports/cables (not all USB-C ports are Thunderbolt ports) and that there's sufficient power (there are different power adapter alternatives and the 135W brick that shipped with my dock wasn't enough by itself so still need a separate charging cable for the laptop).
      - donedealomg 6y ago
leommoore 6y ago
Delighted to see Lenovo get behind Linux. I have been a fan of the Dell XPS 13 for the last few years and certainly next time we are upgrading I will have a good look at the Lenovo range.
husam212 6y ago
> Now, I’m excited to share Lenovo is moving to certify the full workstation portfolio for top Linux distributions from Ubuntu® and Red Hat® – every model, every configuration. > Our entire portfolio of ThinkStation and ThinkPad P Series workstations will now be certified via both Red Hat Enterprise Linux and Ubuntu LTS Are they certifying all models or just ThinkStation and ThinkPad P Series?
- detaro 6y ago
  ThinkStation and ThinkPad P Series is what Lenovo calls "workstations", so probably just those.
fluffything 6y ago
I have a Lenovo Thinkpad Yoga that claims to be certified by both Lenovo and Canonical for Ubuntu. Finger print sensor doesn't work, the fans are super loud all the time, audio doesn't work (requires a newer Linux kernel than the one shipped in the latest Ubuntu), EFI problems, sleep, hibernate, fast-boot, restore from hibernate problems, battery life on Linux is horrible... So at least the certification for Ubuntu is completely worthless. Reading the first comments in the Ubuntu forums from a year ago and the evolution of the Arch Wiki for my laptop, I have a hard time believing that somebody actually tested it before releasing the laptop. At best, somebody looked at the spec sheet and said "we have supported similar hardware before, this is good to go". 1 year later, the laptop is almost in a barely usable state. Canonical broke Audio support (soundcard not detected anymore) with 19.04 and did not fixed it before 20.04, essentially telling users to wait till the next Ubuntu release due to in 6 months. The only officially supported version is a 4 year old custom 16.04 that I never got the chance of trying, but this should tell you a lot about "long term" support of Canonical and Lenovo for these machines. The only ones that should be getting any praise are the dozens of volunteers that have been screwed by both Lenovo and Canonical into buying one of these and have made their work and support time available to others for free. If you want to buy a Linux laptop, avoid Lenovo like the plague. They have absolutely zero quality assurance for Linux. EDIT: link to certification: https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201906-27127 https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201906-27127 what a worthless bag of bytes.
- lallysingh 6y ago
  I have an older X1 yoga. I haven't tried to make the fingerprint sensor work, but the rest works quite well. Especially after I updated the firmware with fwupd. It's not my first Thinkpad running Linux, and the prior two ran quite well.
  - fluffything 6y ago
    I run Arch Linux on mine, with the latest kernel, and custom tools (think fan), and some things disabled (fast boot), and it becomes "usable". That's ok for any Laptop that isn't advertised as "Ubuntu certified". But I literally had to uninstall Ubuntu and install Arch to get audio and microphone back to work after the 19.04 update broke it, and some dev mentioning on the bug report that the fix wouldn't land on 20.04 which it didn't. Imagine Microsoft or Apple telling their users that they have to live without a soundcard for 6 months during COVID-19 because "tough luck". Well that's pretty much how Canonical and Lenovo treat their customers.
PaulAJ 6y ago
Will you still have to pay the Windows Tax on these products?
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  Probably. "Certified" does not mean "ships with". Dell offers that option -- "ships with" Ubuntu -- but only for a handful of laptops.
- mr_custard 6y ago
  Came here to ask the same thing. Infuriating as hell that we are forced to pay for something that not only we don't wish to use or support, but it also inflates the Windows sales figures and percieved install base vs Linux installed base. Grr.
temptemptemp111 6y ago
If only they could be librebooted. AMD release your source code! And make more $! 0_0
sp0ck 6y ago
Oh boy. I want to see fingerprint readers support. Without working fingerprint reader calling a product supported is a joke and selective support. And what about windows hello IR cameras ? Currently it's still a mess.
- viraptor 6y ago
  The annoying thing there is that even with hardware support, login managers or pam specifically still don't get the idea of "you can use either the password or the fingerprint now". You get a choice of their using empty password then the finger, or exhausting fingerprint attempts before using password. Neither is great. I'm not even sure that's possible to solve with the way pam works.
anogrebattle 6y ago
Really happy to see that Lenovo is improving Linux support. I picked up my first ThinkPad, an X1 Carbon with a i7-10710U and touchscreen, on sale last year and installed Manjaro Linux (with a vanilla Gnome DE). It's not a perfect hardware/software integration - the fingerprint reader doesn't work and neither does the onboard mic with the 5.4 kernel - but otherwise this is one of the best laptops I've ever used. I don't think of it as a workstation. It's a portable premium keyboard with a decent screen attached. It's been great for light web dev and long form typing on the ~go~ couch. It barely weighs anything in my bag. Battery life on Linux is comparable to what I was getting on Windows, which is ~8 hours for light use. Speaking of batteries, I had some issues with my battery not being recognized recently (it started by randomly reporting 0% charge before the machine started refusing to charge it altogether). The Lenovo support experience was surprisingly fast. I dropped off the machine at FedEx on a Tuesday morning and it was back in my hands by that Friday afternoon. If you're thinking about going down the same path, my advice is that the Arch wiki is your friend.
rb808 6y ago
Is there a good site to different list models and rate compatibility? The anecdote about fans being super loud are scary. Not just Lenovo if possible
sovietmudkipz 6y ago
I would love first class hardware for Linux, specifically Ubuntu. This may just be a feeling, but too often do I feel like there is additional configuration that has to occur to get Ubuntu working on a repurposed laptop. There also seems to be a trade off of battery life — the same hardware platform lasts 4-6 hours running Ubuntu and 10-12 running windows. I know I can further configure the OS to get similar performance but therein lies the desire. I get a great consumer experience when I purchase a MacBook or (some) windows laptops and I don’t have to worry about that configuration step. It’s about time Ubuntu and other Linux distos are able to offer that same “ready to use” experience that I’m describing. P.S. That said, it is worth pointing out that executing that configuration step is highly educational and, sometimes, pretty fun.
mlang23 6y ago
I have a ThinkPad X1 Carbon Gen7. In general, I have never been happier with the performance and haptics of a laptop. However, I haven't managed to get the fingerprint sensor to work, which is mostly because the relevant driver hasn't been merged into fprint. I was actually suprised when I discovered fprintd doesn't work on the X1. From the reputation ThinkPads have amonst Linuxers, I was sort of naively assuming it wouldn't be an issue.
- RMPR 6y ago
  And that's why I always check the ArchWiki before buying a computer
mxuribe 6y ago
This is wonderful, and welcomed news! The more that lenovo continues their sincere support of linux - and linux distros - the more likely i will be to purchase more and more of their hardware.
manishsharan 6y ago
Quick aside : I have been a buyer of their T 4xx series-- from 440 to 480. I am curious as to what will come after T495.
- 354896547981565 6y ago
  T14
enriquto 6y ago
If they don't sell the actual laptops with all features working on a vanilla debian install, this amounts to nothing. Besides, most linux-related announcements by Lenovo are false. They have announced several times in the last years, with much fanfare, that they were going to sell laptops with linux pre-installed. This has not been the case.
mkesper 6y ago
Post of linux technical lead at Lenovo for the PC team at the Debian mailing list: https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2020/06/msg00004.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2020/06/msg00004.htm... : I would really like to have this conversation with the wider community as to what Lenovo and Debian can do to work better together. As an important example - the X1 Carbon 7 (which is a popular machine) still doesn't work well with any version of Debian (including experimental or testing) as the audio is broken. Debian users have to jump through a few hoops to get it to work. I've let the maintainer know a number of times what is involved to fix that but it's obviously not a priority (as a heads up - Debian on most Lenovo 2020 platforms is going to suck because of this too). I'm not meaning to point fingers - but just explain why it feels as if Debian and the latest hardware is an awkward fit.
fierarul 6y ago
I find the Ubuntu hardware certification a bit dubious specifically since they list all the hardware details. See, eg. https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201906-27127 https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201906-27127 (copied from another thread, as a reference) Now, as a consumer, I don't have access to that level of details while trying to buy a laptop! So, the certification both makes you believe your laptop will be compatible but then when it isn't they can come back and claim your specific controller or bluetooth card is not in the list. This is, of course, the manufacturer's fault since they use the same product name for a large variety of component bags. In a way Dell XPS Linux Edition is good since it tells you upfront there's no tricks. That being said, this news is encouraging but I want to know when can I buy laptops from this lot of certified devices?
pyrophane 6y ago
My experience running Fedora Linux on a Thinkpad P1 Gen 2: It's mostly very good! - I'm running Fedora 32 and using Gnome. I love it. Gnome continues to improve a lot with each release, and overall the operating system feels very stable. I can't think of the last time I saw any error. - This machine doesn't have great battery life regardless of what OS you are running, but after properly configuring the GPU, battery life on linux is on par with Windows if not a bit better. I've also undervolted the cpu, which is easy to do and provides even better batter life. - I was able to install all the software I needed using a combination of the Fedora rpm repositories, rpmfusion, and flathub. I actually have come to prefer flatpaks over other installation methods for software like bitwarden, spotify, riot, slack, etc. I don't notice the same performance issues I have seen with snaps on Ubuntu. I install Steam from rpmfusion, and am surprised at how nice the linux gaming experience is these days. There are a few things that are less than stellar, though. - It takes a little work to get decent battery life because of the nvidia gpu, and the setup isn't perfect. External displays must be run of the discrete gpu, so you can't get them to work if you are just running off the integrated intel chip, which provides the best battery life. In fact, external displays don't work when using "prime offloading" either. You need to set the nvidia gpu as the primary gpu to get external displays to work. What this all adds up to is that I need to change a config value and log out/back in depending on whether I am plugged in to an external display or not. I have a script that does this so it isn't that bad. Interestingly, with the latest kernel release the nouveau driver is working for my nvidia card and, at least according to powertop, is able to dynamically switch from power-saving to primary mode when an external display is connected. I am also hopeful nvidia will resolve this in the next release. - Docker is still a pain to set up on 32. There's no docker-ce repo, but you can install from the Fedora 31 repos, and to get it to work some system and firewall configuration is required. This is all pretty well documented in a github issue now, but it took a lot of troubleshooting at first. That's my experience, and it has improved a lot since the machine first came out and I was running Fedora 30. There were initially several serious firmware bugs which took a long time to get resolved, and the OS/driver support was not nearly as good as it is now. Overall, I would recommend this combo if you need a powerful machine.
- RMPR 6y ago
  >This machine doesn't have great battery life regardless of what OS you are running, but after properly configuring the GPU, battery life on linux is on par with Windows if not a bit better. I've also undervolted the cpu, which is easy to do and provides even better batter life. You can gain a couple of minutes using a WM instead of a full fledged DE >Docker is still a pain to set up on 32. There's no docker-ce repo, but you can install from the Fedora 31 repos, and to get it to work some system and firewall configuration is required. This is all pretty well documented in a github issue now, but it took a lot of troubleshooting at first. My solution to this was to use podman[0] instead. 0: https://podman.io/whatis.html https://podman.io/whatis.html
linuxhansl 6y ago
Super big fan. I had Lenovo's with Linux for the past 20 years. My 7yo T440p is still working very well and my son is using that one now. The brand new X1E Gen2 works flawlessly on Linux. Granted, I'm using Fedora, not Ubuntu. Fedora tends to be bleeding edge, even for the X1E Gen2 all I had to do is install Fedora from the LiveCD (I'm using the KDE spin) and it just works. (this laptop still came with Windows only, so I deleted that and install Fedora)
danans 6y ago
I think what's cool is that there now at least 3 different supported ways to run Linux on laptops today: 1. Directly run your traditional Linux distro (i.e. on these Lenovos, System76 laptops, etc). 2. Run WSL using Windows on a Windows laptop. 3. Run Crostini Linux VM on a Chromebook. In the past, the Linux laptop options were largely limited to those who wanted to install it unsupported on devices (remember the campaigns to get refunds for the default Windows installations on laptops?). And sure, the above listed supported commercial solutions don't embody the hacker ethos of the old Linux-on-laptop communities, but they do represent the growth of Linux as a broadly usable software development environment.
nominated1 6y ago
When looking at Linux support I start with the Linux Vendor Firmware Service [1]. If the model I’m looking at isn’t supported then it’s off my list. You’ll notice that not all Thinkpads are supported [2]. The E, L and Yoga series are not supported but the T, P and X series are. [1] https://fwupd.org/ https://fwupd.org/ [2] https://fwupd.org/lvfs/search?&value=thinkpad https://fwupd.org/lvfs/search?&value=thinkpad
- _-david-_ 6y ago
  Some Thinkpads that are not supported provide bootable isos that you can use to update your bios. It is my understanding that it also updates the firmware (but it doesn't explicitly say). Here is an E model that has a bootable iso: https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-edge-laptops/thinkpad-e480-type-20kn-20kq/downloads/ds501843 https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netb...
  - nominated1 6y ago
    Yes, many vendors for many models do the same. Even if they don’t you could install it via Windows. “Support” is more than just the ability to install an update. It’s to do with whether an issue affecting Linux is being addressed. In the case of the E and L series Thinkpads there are many shared components with the T series so your chances are much better.
    - type0 6y ago
      > Even if they don’t you could install it via Windows. Some enterprise PCs only have Windows, DOS and RHEL, SUSE options. There's no reason to use Windows when you can update BIOS and firmware via CentOS Live image with RHEL binaries.
  - everybodyknows 6y ago
    My L560 is seemingly supported through fwup -- provided the existing firmware is not too old: fwupdmgr commands fail with: Not compatible with firmware version 0.1.22, requires >= 0.1.42 And indeed history on fwupd.org goes back only to 0.1.43: https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devices/com.lenovo.ThinkPadN1HET.firmware https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devices/com.lenovo.ThinkPadN1HET.firm... Leaving a bootable ISO as apparently the only option. The snag being that the documentation refers only to Windows, and describes various Windows-UEFI interactions. https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles/n1hur35w.txt https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles/n1hur35w.txt So, the $1500 question is, could there be some hidden risk of bricking the laptop, at least for Linux installations?
tomxor 6y ago
It's really good to see official support for Linux broadening. Whether you love or hate Lenovo products/service etc (they are far from perfect) this decision will spur on competition and provide more choice and better support for all in the future.
luord 6y ago
"What’s more, Lenovo will also upstream device drivers directly to the Linux kernel, to help maintain stability and compatibility throughout the life of the workstation." Particularly liked this bit.
dzonga 6y ago
now the OS's need to improve. thinkpad's have had stellar support for linux. own a t490 and have run several distros from manjaro, redhat etc now on ubuntu 20.04. the distros need to work on hdpi support, consolidate desktop environments. kde is nice for some things n gnome is too. like for me on kde, the brightness setting was wonky. gnome no support for media controls. then finally linux can takover. I don't know the story about wayland - but it seems most apps don't support it
wilsonfiifi 6y ago
What’s dual (or multiple) monitor Support like with Linux these days? Thinking of getting the dell xps developer edition because it seems to be the one that offers the best compatibility but I would personally prefer a Lenovo.
- Joeri 6y ago
  Multiple monitors are not a problem, but mixed DPI is. It supposedly works fine in wayland, but I tried and failed to switch over to wayland. In X apps always appear the wrong size on one display or the other.
  - wilsonfiifi 6y ago
    Oh boy! Well I'll just stay in the expensive "Mac-land"...

379 points by tpush 6y ago

This is great news. Honestly I've never had a problem with Ubuntu on machines that are just a 1-year or older. There are so many i7 laptops in the secondary market that work perfectly.

danielscrubs 6y ago
Graphics drivers and WiFi drivers never worked without significant pampering for me in Ubuntu, and I've been using Linux for 15 years. Just last week I updated my working Nvidia drivers for my RTX 2070 card via Ubuntus GUI and lo and behold after restart the screen is just black. It's at a point where I just want it to get a working system and never update it, security and performance be damned. I know how to fix it because this has happened with pretty much all graphic cards I've had, I'll have to go into and mess with the grub config, make it run in safe mode, restart, try another grub config, restart, find out it doesn't work, run safe mode and reinstall the old drivers, cross my finger and wonder where my Saturday went. Gentoo was the most reliant by a long shot (maybe for the simple reason it always asked if it should replace my config), but that is a time sink in whole other league. Have heard good things about Fedora lately, but I dread throwing away the Debian knowledge I amassed.
- Lio 6y ago
  I guess it’s all about choice of hardware now. If you use components designed to support Linux life will be pretty smooth. I’m sure someone will point out the nvidia has a reputation for being linux hostile which does limit your choice a bit. Currently running Fedora on an XPS13 Dev edition laptop. Wayland, Gnome and Firefox are working together very nicely. Mixed HiDPI with standard seems to be solved now. I’ve seen the odd glitch where an app gets confused as you move from one screen to another but overall very good. Trackpad latency is improving but still not quite perfect. The fact that it’s close and constantly improving though makes me very positive about using Linux in place of my MBP full time. I actually miss the Gnome window management shortcuts when I move back to my Mac.
  - teruakohatu 6y ago
    Has Wayland figured out how to allow users to take screenshots? I would like to switch to Linux/Wayland from my mac but I need to share screenshots with co-workers.
    - Vogtinator 6y ago
      I've been using the Plasma Wayland session for quite some time now and screenshots have been working fine basically from the start and some time ago screensharing with pipewire got implemented. Chromium and krfb support that, so both WebRTC and VNC work as expected.
    - vetinari 6y ago
      You can take screenshots under Wayland, you just can not use random X11 tool that you were used to. All Wayland compositors come with some tool, that can take screenshots.
      - RMPR 6y ago
        The real issue is the clipboard which gets cleaned after closing the Window from where you copied.
        vetinari 6y ago
        I would guess that the format negotiation for clipboard data has something to do with that. You cannot negotiate when the originating app is not there anymore. But then, is it a real problem? I understand, that some users might be inconvenienced by that, because they got used to it in their workflow... but is it really a showstopper?
- mssdvd 6y ago
  Nowadays systemd distros like Fedora and Debian are quite similar.
- vetinari 6y ago
  > Graphics drivers and WiFi drivers never worked without significant pampering > my RTX 2070 I still do not understand, why you folks with Nvidia hardware expect it to work out of the box in Linux, when there have been two decades of experience that Nvidia doesn't care about that and won't allow anyone to do anything with that. So no, your RTX won't work as nice OOTB as Intel and AMD GPUs do. It will continue to be the case while you continue to give them money for them ignoring you.
  - fungi 6y ago
    Unfortunately AMD doesn't really compete in the machine learning space. Hopefully one day ROCm will offer a viable alternative but until then we are pretty much captive.
    - vetinari 6y ago
      If you really need nvidia so badly, put that GPU into headless machine, where you don't need any UI. Otherwise, you will be frustrated on desktop and it still won't work out of the box.
      - beojan 6y ago
        Or just use integrated graphics for the desktop, and reserve the GPU for GPGPU work.
        vetinari 6y ago
        Yes, that would be an option too.
      - Havoc 6y ago
        >put that GPU into headless machine Possibly one of the saddest solutions ever proposed. Besides then one can’t game on it
        vetinari 6y ago
- panpanna 6y ago
  Ubuntu has been plug and play for me the last 4-5 years. It even supports devices no longer working on Macs and windows without any user interaction. Of course, high-end nvidia boards seem to have all kind of problem. Stay away from Nvidia if you are a Linux user.
- rkangel 6y ago
  My approach to Linux laptops: * Buy Lenovo * Have integrated graphics (i.e. Intel) * Run Fedora This combination has, for a few years now, given me excellent reliability 'out of the box'. I don't have to do anything and everything from the fingerprint scanner to the wifi Just Works. There's still a bit of a battery life penalty compared to Windows, but it's not enormous.
  - easytiger 6y ago
    This has been a source of much consternation. Basically want a 15" x1 Carbon without any of the complications of the dual GPU laptops. But no one seems to make it. I guess to push margins up they force higher prices on larger laptops as they become more "niche"
    - smichel17 6y ago
      I ran into the same issue when I was in the market for a laptop a year or two ago. In particular, it's difficult to find a 15" laptop with a 1920x1080 matte screen that doesn't have a dual gpu setup. I was also looking for something that wouldn't break the bank. I ended up getting an ASUS f510ua (cheap variant with a 1TB 5200rpm hdd) and adding a 256GB m.2 ssd for my boot drive. 8GB ram and an i5 8250U. Found a deal on the laptop so the total cost ended up ~$600 USD, although I think m.2 ssds are cheaper now. I've been pretty happy with the performance; it's just enough to comfortably do Android dev (I use vim though, not Android Studio). The aspect I had to compromise on was build quality. The body is plastic and especially the screen has little reinforcement to bending specifically. It's not completely flimsy but I don't like carrying it around open in crowded/public spaces where it's more likely I'll bump into something and I wouldn't bet on it surviving a fall unscathed (my previous laptop, a Dell XPS 14, did exactly that, from college dorm bed to uncarpeted floor). It has also grown a single dead pixel, that I don't notice in regular use. I expected the build quality going in, and overall I'm pretty happy with the purchase. I used it for 8+ hours daily for 9 months when I was separated from my desktop.
      - easytiger 6y ago
        Interesting. I was considering a more budget end laptop but was worried about the build quality. When I try most laptops in shops they feel terrible to be honest. My first laptop was an Asus. To be fair it was as well speced as laptops 2 years later but the screen bowed in the middle. How's the keyboard on those Asus laptops?
- fungi 6y ago
  Thanks Nvidia. There is little Linux can do with out sacrificing a lot (principles and technical). It's a pita, _hopefully_ one day AMD and ROCm will be a viable alternative.
- simion314 6y ago
  About your driver upgrade? Did you installed a driver PPA and installed some driver that was not guaranteed to work or it was a Ubuntu bug, you did your regular updates (no PPA) and it broke your system? I also had this issues because I wanted to try newer drivers, it is expected if the new driver does not work I go in terminal and install the previous working version. I personally prefer how easy is to test different driver version in Linux while in Windows I needed to make an account to upgrade my NVIDIA drivers(maybe you can avoid creating an account I am not 100% sure but at that time I was dual booting to play some game and I did not had a weekend to spend o how to upgrade my drivers without an account ... in the end I could not solve the issue where Oblivion had a black screen and I played it with Wine in Linux)
- gerdesj 6y ago
  "Gentoo was the most reliant by a long shot (maybe for the simple reason it always asked if it should replace my config), but that is a time sink in whole other league." I think I can see Arch showing off a bit of ankle at you. Think of Arch as a bit like Gentoo without the burning lap.
  - h91wka 6y ago
    I have used both Arch and Gentoo, and the only similarity between them is steep learning curve. They are based on completely different tech (pacman vs. portage, systemd vs. openrc) and philosophy, they pursue completely different goals and solve different problems (or, rather, I hesitate to give a quick answer what problem does Arch solve, unlike Gentoo that gives the ability to customize the system all the way down, for a hefty price, of course).
  - blaser-waffle 6y ago
    If I was still in college I'd be trying to trick out an Arch build and post screenshots of my hyper-cool DE. But now I'm a fatass network engineer and I don't have the desire to spend an iota of energy doing config work outside of actual paid work. Ubuntu and Fedora just work, and only require a heafty apt/yum one-liner to make everything work. Arch is awesome -- the Arch Wiki is useful even for non-Arch users -- but ain't no body got time for that.
    - gerdesj 6y ago
      I'm a company director (MD) and I do not spend much time fiddling with my gear. I expect it to simply work and it does. I document my builds/configurations in both my corp wiki and the Arch wiki (stuff that is generic.) On a Fri afternoon I run "yay -Syu" and reboot. I deploy Ubuntu minimal for servers. I document those as well. My personal systems are not exciting. I login with Active Directory creds and I have an Exchange account for email. I just happen to have multiple CAD apps available and lots of other stuff out of the box. When I update my PCs/laptops the whole lot update and off I trot. I get the occasional bit of breakage but because Arch is rolling it is only a small problem at a time and not a massive total meltdown. I'm 50 next year - I studied Civ Eng at college. I am a fat ass PHB and sysadmin all in one package. I should also point out that my company is running reasonably happily despite SARS-CoV-2, so I think me and my two partners have done a reasonable job of the PHB thing. We still have all of our 20 employees and expect to come out with a (low n) £n00,000 loss on the books due to a virus. Happily we had >£n00,000 in the bank before hand to deal with unforeseen cash flow snags because we are boring and like to sleep at night. To summarise: Don't diss Arch (or Gentoo) as a silly ricer distro. If you approach a problem with a true engineer's attitude and an open mind then unlikely solutions can arise. Also, keep some cash under the mattress for a rainy day.
- thdrdt 6y ago
  Some days ago I installed Ubuntu on a system with a RTX 2070 super. There were no problems at all with the Nvidia driver. But it was a kind of miracle it worked out of the box. Because before that I had to manually fix the Wi-Fi driver. Hardware changes sometimes turn into a hell on Linux (Ubuntu). But I still won't go to Windows or MacOS. I just like the freedom of Linux. And when things are working, most of the time they keep working. On an other pc I have over 6 years of Ubuntu upgrades and it is still running fine.

maxwellito 6y ago

Fantastic news! I hope a lot of other manufacturers will follow!

dempseye 6y ago

Is Nvidia Optimus going to work or will it still require a dirty hack? Will you have to choose between decent battery life and the ability to use an external monitor? I bought an X1 Extreme and even with Pop!_OS it is incredibly annoying.

paines 6y ago
Dirty hack, like bumblebee? Well since driver 440.44 this kind of thing is incooperated into the nvidia driver itself. You can use it on demand. It idles at around 1w and is used for some physics and other decoding capabilities if i recall correctly. If you want to run a game or an app using nvidia you prepend it with an environment variable, otherwise intel gfx is used. It's not dirty, and works quite well imho... To make it more convenient:there are even extensions for gnome to say use nvidia with this and that app... Sure, to have the nvidia card kick in triggered by the OS somehow when really needed would be the non-plus ultra, but come on, this is science fiction :D
- robin_reala 6y ago
  (ne plus ultra: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ne%20plus%20ultra https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ne%20plus%20ultra)
  - paines 6y ago
    I really meant non-plus-ultra which we use in germany.I thought it's universal among language families.
  - asjw 6y ago
    It's universally non plus ultra http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/non-plus-ultra http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_eng...
    - robin_reala 6y ago
      Oh, OK, TIL. I’ve never heard that!

panpanna 6y ago

Didn't Ubuntu/redhat certify some thinkpads in the past?

dathinab 6y ago
Yes a view thinkpads here and there had been somewhat verified. Through I don't remember if it was fully certified. Like I think the fingerprint reader was always excluded from certification.
- viraptor 6y ago
  Does anyone know what's up with the fingerprint readers? They always seem to need reverse engineering. And once some model is well established, they suddenly switch to a new one... It's happened so many times it just can't be accidental. There are no secrets in the glorified grayscale scanner - why are the drivers never opensourced?

ckastner 6y ago

This is good news, but Lenovo should be lauded even for their current Linux support, which already extends to a great deal of their systems, see [1]. https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426 https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426 By chance, I interacted with one of their devs through the Debian community, and came away very positively surprised. They really seem committed to this.

LaSombra 6y ago

I'm very happy that now we have a choice between Ubuntu and something else.

Jonnax 6y ago

Got a ThinkPad T450 in my cupboard running Ubuntu as a home server. Everything works perfectly. I'd argue that thinkpads aren't stylish, but they're bricks that work well.

dghf 6y ago
L430 here. It's not pretty, but it's solid and reliable. And Lenovo's online specs and manuals are excellent.
nodefourtytwo 6y ago
I, for one, find Thinkpads gorgeous.
linker3000 6y ago
I have a T420 as my non-work laptop. It's running Mint and has been no trouble whatsoever, including close-the-lid sleep and graphics.
bluedino 6y ago
Are you using the touchpad, wifi, fingerprint scanner, bluetooth, graphics in your cupboard?
- Jonnax 6y ago
  Lol, you don't need to be so combative. It used to be my daily driver laptop. And yes. The touchpad, wifi, bluetooth and the GPU (intel) works perfectly. And the laptop doesn't have fingerprint sensor.

prennert 6y ago

After IBM acquired Red Hat I was once asked what I am hoping to come out of this acquisition. My answer was that for me personally the hope was to have more Linux ready machines and laptops available in the end consumer market (i.e. non server, non cloud market). Although the Thinkpads are long not anymore IBM products, somehow I was still hoping for the closer connection between hardware and OS know how in the form of the IBM-Red Hat relationship would trickle through. Seeing Red Hat next to Ubuntu as supported Linux OS makes me think that Red Hat made actually some contributions to making this announcement possible. It's great to see that it's not just one model but all models in all configurations will be supported. This is great news to businesses who need computers only as a gateway to cloud apps. Why would you pay windows licenses (particularly professional), if you can get a decent OS that can be managed better by IT for free? This is will weigh in particularly with cheap machines that are used by office workers in the throughout of the service economy. Edit: maybe this will be the start of the height of the current trend to push all applications into the cloud, which is the SUN workstation 2.0 model. I wonder if the cyclical nature of this trend makes a comeback in the form of bringing cloud compute back to edge devices in 10 years. I would wonder what could drive such a comeback for the average Joe?

als0 6y ago
> Although the Thinkpads are long not anymore IBM products, somehow I was still hoping for the closer connection between hardware and OS know how in the form of the IBM-Red Hat relationship would trickle through. Red Hat isn't missing any "know how". They, like any other developer, are missing publicly available data sheets to make everything work out of the box. There's nothing IBM can do to change that since they no longer manufacture PCs.
amachefe 6y ago
Just thinking about it, If IBM didnt sell the PC to Lenovo, packaging Fedora/RH with the PC would have been awesome... #justathought

mkj 6y ago

This only says they'll certify ThinkPad P series, which are mobile workstations not the more comfortable laptop ranges. Reading the title you'd think it might be workstations, and all ThinkPads.

throwaway-9320 6y ago

I must point out that this does NOT cover ThinkPad T and X series. From the press release: > Our entire portfolio of ThinkStation and ThinkPad P Series workstations will now be certified via both Red Hat Enterprise Linux and Ubuntu LTS – a long-term, enterprise-stability variant of the popular Ubuntu Linux distribution.

xkr47 6y ago
The press release also said "Lenovo is moving to certify the full workstation portfolio for top Linux distributions from Ubuntu® and Red Hat® – every model, every configuration." so I guess the question is: Are only ThinkPad P series laptops considered workstations OR is the plan to bring it to other ThinkPads as well in the long run?
- miahi 6y ago
  Yes, the P series are considered mobile workstations[1]. T series = business X series = ultraportable [1] https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/c/LAPTOPS#view-all https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/c/LAPTOPS#view-all
chinathrow 6y ago
This makes sense. The amount of fine tuning I had to do for my X1 7th generation with Ubuntu 19.10 was almost unbearable. Sound still is not working properly, the internal mic is still not working at all.
- jjuel 6y ago
  My T480s had 0 issues with Debian 10. It doesn't have a fingerprint reader which I hear is a main bug a boo with Thinkpads.
  - noir_lord 6y ago
    Same with my T470P, it works out the box. The only thing I had to do was compile a module for also so I got high quality aptx Bluetooth for my wireless headphones but that’s an IP issue not something I can blame Fedora or Lenovo for. My T470P with Fedora is as little issue as my work issued 16” MacBook Pro.

tsp 6y ago

Great news! I hope more laptop models will follow.

tannhaeuser 6y ago

ThinkPads, at least the mainstream models, certainly have always worked very well with Linux thanks to the great ThinkPad community who is really passionate about this. I've picked up a cheaper Ryzen E495 in retail a couple months ago because I needed a new notebook asap, and it works flawlessly with Ubuntu 19/20. Better first-party support (like Dell has had for many years now) had been promised for quite a while, so lets see if Lenovo keeps delivering; I'm all for having options. But tbh the Dell I had was hands down a better notebook experience (incomparably better display and trackpad, subjectively better keyboard even though keyboards are considered one of the strong points of ThinkPads). To match a Dell XPS, you have to go for a really premium Carbon X1 which is quite a bit more expensive. Downside with my Dell XPS was that the battery seems to have been broken OOTB and never lived up to Dell's projections, then began to swell so had to be replaced out of warranty.

foo2020 6y ago
Can you tell me the model of the Thinkpad that you are using. I am looking to buy one.
- tannhaeuser 6y ago
  Thinkpad E495 with Ryzen/Vega 3500. Not sure it's still available because it should've been superseeded by the newer Ryzen/Vega 4000 chipset by now? Be sure to put in a 2nd memory stick to not slow it down (see the review on notebookcheck why), and also to have at least 16GB RAM. Edit: I picked mine because it was on stock for take-away (there isn't usually a choice of "pro" notebooks with matte screens in retail); for the same kind of money, you could get better value I think; I had hoped for a little more performance for sure (but it's still a solid workhorse)
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

ledvd 6y ago

I was currently shopping around for a new Laptop, and I really like the T series ones. Unfortunately, it seems they suffer from the throttling issue, which can be mitigated by a fix from the community [1]. I think Lenovo also released a fix for some models. All in all, it's a bit hard to know which models are impacted or not, and I don't want to end up buying one and having to resort to these kind of fixes to have it working correctly. [1]: https://github.com/erpalma/throttled https://github.com/erpalma/throttled

bArray 6y ago

I had a small laugh when I saw that guy in the example image doing the most minimal of work on what is otherwise quite a capable machine [1]. But still, it's cool to see Linux being taken more seriously by vendors. [1] https://news.lenovo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/ThinkPad-P53_Ubuntu-1024x745.jpg https://news.lenovo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/ThinkPad-...

HeadlessChild 6y ago
Running Ubuntu 16.10 it looks like (which was released almost 4 years ago).
- bArray 6y ago
  Hah! I missed that!

tobltobs 6y ago

Instead of this marketing theater, they could help to improve battery life under Linux which still sucks.

exceptione 6y ago

From a quick pass I don't see any mention about the docking stations. I would rather have them start working on the docking station capabilities. Right now my dock doesn't understand how to provide display port capabilities to linux. It is a very expensive USB-hub at this moment when I boot linux.

Legogris 6y ago
I had this same issue - if it's the same thing, it turned out that there are firmware issues and that the up-to-date firmware was only available for Windows (this may have changed, it was ~3-4 months ago). Lenovo's officially putting their updates on LVFS, but in practice it seems neglected. I spent a day or two stubbornly trying to extract the updates from the Windows binaries, eventually resorted to booting into Windows and updating firwmares on both laptop and dock that way. No issues since. If it still doesn't work you can fall back on displaylink drivers in a pinch.
- exceptione 6y ago
  Updating the firmware changed nothing. On the product page I don't see linux compatibility even mentioned.
  - Legogris 6y ago
    That's unfortunate. FWIW I'm using both an old-style dock (ye olde bottom connector) and the Thunderbolt 3 Dock with a T470s and a T480s with Arch and NixOS. Displayport and HDMI both working fine after first doing the latest updates using fwupd and then running additional updates for laptop/controller/dock from Windows (first step probably redundant). If it's the Thunderbolt 3 Dock, it can be worth checking that you're using the right ports/cables (not all USB-C ports are Thunderbolt ports) and that there's sufficient power (there are different power adapter alternatives and the 135W brick that shipped with my dock wasn't enough by itself so still need a separate charging cable for the laptop).
    - donedealomg 6y ago

leommoore 6y ago

Delighted to see Lenovo get behind Linux. I have been a fan of the Dell XPS 13 for the last few years and certainly next time we are upgrading I will have a good look at the Lenovo range.

husam212 6y ago

> Now, I’m excited to share Lenovo is moving to certify the full workstation portfolio for top Linux distributions from Ubuntu® and Red Hat® – every model, every configuration. > Our entire portfolio of ThinkStation and ThinkPad P Series workstations will now be certified via both Red Hat Enterprise Linux and Ubuntu LTS Are they certifying all models or just ThinkStation and ThinkPad P Series?

detaro 6y ago
ThinkStation and ThinkPad P Series is what Lenovo calls "workstations", so probably just those.

fluffything 6y ago

I have a Lenovo Thinkpad Yoga that claims to be certified by both Lenovo and Canonical for Ubuntu. Finger print sensor doesn't work, the fans are super loud all the time, audio doesn't work (requires a newer Linux kernel than the one shipped in the latest Ubuntu), EFI problems, sleep, hibernate, fast-boot, restore from hibernate problems, battery life on Linux is horrible... So at least the certification for Ubuntu is completely worthless. Reading the first comments in the Ubuntu forums from a year ago and the evolution of the Arch Wiki for my laptop, I have a hard time believing that somebody actually tested it before releasing the laptop. At best, somebody looked at the spec sheet and said "we have supported similar hardware before, this is good to go". 1 year later, the laptop is almost in a barely usable state. Canonical broke Audio support (soundcard not detected anymore) with 19.04 and did not fixed it before 20.04, essentially telling users to wait till the next Ubuntu release due to in 6 months. The only officially supported version is a 4 year old custom 16.04 that I never got the chance of trying, but this should tell you a lot about "long term" support of Canonical and Lenovo for these machines. The only ones that should be getting any praise are the dozens of volunteers that have been screwed by both Lenovo and Canonical into buying one of these and have made their work and support time available to others for free. If you want to buy a Linux laptop, avoid Lenovo like the plague. They have absolutely zero quality assurance for Linux. EDIT: link to certification: https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201906-27127 https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201906-27127 what a worthless bag of bytes.

lallysingh 6y ago
I have an older X1 yoga. I haven't tried to make the fingerprint sensor work, but the rest works quite well. Especially after I updated the firmware with fwupd. It's not my first Thinkpad running Linux, and the prior two ran quite well.
- fluffything 6y ago
  I run Arch Linux on mine, with the latest kernel, and custom tools (think fan), and some things disabled (fast boot), and it becomes "usable". That's ok for any Laptop that isn't advertised as "Ubuntu certified". But I literally had to uninstall Ubuntu and install Arch to get audio and microphone back to work after the 19.04 update broke it, and some dev mentioning on the bug report that the fix wouldn't land on 20.04 which it didn't. Imagine Microsoft or Apple telling their users that they have to live without a soundcard for 6 months during COVID-19 because "tough luck". Well that's pretty much how Canonical and Lenovo treat their customers.

PaulAJ 6y ago

Will you still have to pay the Windows Tax on these products?

blaser-waffle 6y ago
Probably. "Certified" does not mean "ships with". Dell offers that option -- "ships with" Ubuntu -- but only for a handful of laptops.
mr_custard 6y ago
Came here to ask the same thing. Infuriating as hell that we are forced to pay for something that not only we don't wish to use or support, but it also inflates the Windows sales figures and percieved install base vs Linux installed base. Grr.

temptemptemp111 6y ago

If only they could be librebooted. AMD release your source code! And make more $! 0_0

sp0ck 6y ago

Oh boy. I want to see fingerprint readers support. Without working fingerprint reader calling a product supported is a joke and selective support. And what about windows hello IR cameras ? Currently it's still a mess.

viraptor 6y ago
The annoying thing there is that even with hardware support, login managers or pam specifically still don't get the idea of "you can use either the password or the fingerprint now". You get a choice of their using empty password then the finger, or exhausting fingerprint attempts before using password. Neither is great. I'm not even sure that's possible to solve with the way pam works.

anogrebattle 6y ago

Really happy to see that Lenovo is improving Linux support. I picked up my first ThinkPad, an X1 Carbon with a i7-10710U and touchscreen, on sale last year and installed Manjaro Linux (with a vanilla Gnome DE). It's not a perfect hardware/software integration - the fingerprint reader doesn't work and neither does the onboard mic with the 5.4 kernel - but otherwise this is one of the best laptops I've ever used. I don't think of it as a workstation. It's a portable premium keyboard with a decent screen attached. It's been great for light web dev and long form typing on the ~go~ couch. It barely weighs anything in my bag. Battery life on Linux is comparable to what I was getting on Windows, which is ~8 hours for light use. Speaking of batteries, I had some issues with my battery not being recognized recently (it started by randomly reporting 0% charge before the machine started refusing to charge it altogether). The Lenovo support experience was surprisingly fast. I dropped off the machine at FedEx on a Tuesday morning and it was back in my hands by that Friday afternoon. If you're thinking about going down the same path, my advice is that the Arch wiki is your friend.

rb808 6y ago

Is there a good site to different list models and rate compatibility? The anecdote about fans being super loud are scary. Not just Lenovo if possible

sovietmudkipz 6y ago

I would love first class hardware for Linux, specifically Ubuntu. This may just be a feeling, but too often do I feel like there is additional configuration that has to occur to get Ubuntu working on a repurposed laptop. There also seems to be a trade off of battery life — the same hardware platform lasts 4-6 hours running Ubuntu and 10-12 running windows. I know I can further configure the OS to get similar performance but therein lies the desire. I get a great consumer experience when I purchase a MacBook or (some) windows laptops and I don’t have to worry about that configuration step. It’s about time Ubuntu and other Linux distos are able to offer that same “ready to use” experience that I’m describing. P.S. That said, it is worth pointing out that executing that configuration step is highly educational and, sometimes, pretty fun.

mlang23 6y ago

I have a ThinkPad X1 Carbon Gen7. In general, I have never been happier with the performance and haptics of a laptop. However, I haven't managed to get the fingerprint sensor to work, which is mostly because the relevant driver hasn't been merged into fprint. I was actually suprised when I discovered fprintd doesn't work on the X1. From the reputation ThinkPads have amonst Linuxers, I was sort of naively assuming it wouldn't be an issue.

RMPR 6y ago
And that's why I always check the ArchWiki before buying a computer

mxuribe 6y ago

This is wonderful, and welcomed news! The more that lenovo continues their sincere support of linux - and linux distros - the more likely i will be to purchase more and more of their hardware.

manishsharan 6y ago

Quick aside : I have been a buyer of their T 4xx series-- from 440 to 480. I am curious as to what will come after T495.

354896547981565 6y ago
T14

enriquto 6y ago

If they don't sell the actual laptops with all features working on a vanilla debian install, this amounts to nothing. Besides, most linux-related announcements by Lenovo are false. They have announced several times in the last years, with much fanfare, that they were going to sell laptops with linux pre-installed. This has not been the case.

mkesper 6y ago

Post of linux technical lead at Lenovo for the PC team at the Debian mailing list: https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2020/06/msg00004.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2020/06/msg00004.htm... : I would really like to have this conversation with the wider community as to what Lenovo and Debian can do to work better together. As an important example - the X1 Carbon 7 (which is a popular machine) still doesn't work well with any version of Debian (including experimental or testing) as the audio is broken. Debian users have to jump through a few hoops to get it to work. I've let the maintainer know a number of times what is involved to fix that but it's obviously not a priority (as a heads up - Debian on most Lenovo 2020 platforms is going to suck because of this too). I'm not meaning to point fingers - but just explain why it feels as if Debian and the latest hardware is an awkward fit.

fierarul 6y ago

I find the Ubuntu hardware certification a bit dubious specifically since they list all the hardware details. See, eg. https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201906-27127 https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201906-27127 (copied from another thread, as a reference) Now, as a consumer, I don't have access to that level of details while trying to buy a laptop! So, the certification both makes you believe your laptop will be compatible but then when it isn't they can come back and claim your specific controller or bluetooth card is not in the list. This is, of course, the manufacturer's fault since they use the same product name for a large variety of component bags. In a way Dell XPS Linux Edition is good since it tells you upfront there's no tricks. That being said, this news is encouraging but I want to know when can I buy laptops from this lot of certified devices?

pyrophane 6y ago

My experience running Fedora Linux on a Thinkpad P1 Gen 2: It's mostly very good! - I'm running Fedora 32 and using Gnome. I love it. Gnome continues to improve a lot with each release, and overall the operating system feels very stable. I can't think of the last time I saw any error. - This machine doesn't have great battery life regardless of what OS you are running, but after properly configuring the GPU, battery life on linux is on par with Windows if not a bit better. I've also undervolted the cpu, which is easy to do and provides even better batter life. - I was able to install all the software I needed using a combination of the Fedora rpm repositories, rpmfusion, and flathub. I actually have come to prefer flatpaks over other installation methods for software like bitwarden, spotify, riot, slack, etc. I don't notice the same performance issues I have seen with snaps on Ubuntu. I install Steam from rpmfusion, and am surprised at how nice the linux gaming experience is these days. There are a few things that are less than stellar, though. - It takes a little work to get decent battery life because of the nvidia gpu, and the setup isn't perfect. External displays must be run of the discrete gpu, so you can't get them to work if you are just running off the integrated intel chip, which provides the best battery life. In fact, external displays don't work when using "prime offloading" either. You need to set the nvidia gpu as the primary gpu to get external displays to work. What this all adds up to is that I need to change a config value and log out/back in depending on whether I am plugged in to an external display or not. I have a script that does this so it isn't that bad. Interestingly, with the latest kernel release the nouveau driver is working for my nvidia card and, at least according to powertop, is able to dynamically switch from power-saving to primary mode when an external display is connected. I am also hopeful nvidia will resolve this in the next release. - Docker is still a pain to set up on 32. There's no docker-ce repo, but you can install from the Fedora 31 repos, and to get it to work some system and firewall configuration is required. This is all pretty well documented in a github issue now, but it took a lot of troubleshooting at first. That's my experience, and it has improved a lot since the machine first came out and I was running Fedora 30. There were initially several serious firmware bugs which took a long time to get resolved, and the OS/driver support was not nearly as good as it is now. Overall, I would recommend this combo if you need a powerful machine.

RMPR 6y ago
>This machine doesn't have great battery life regardless of what OS you are running, but after properly configuring the GPU, battery life on linux is on par with Windows if not a bit better. I've also undervolted the cpu, which is easy to do and provides even better batter life. You can gain a couple of minutes using a WM instead of a full fledged DE >Docker is still a pain to set up on 32. There's no docker-ce repo, but you can install from the Fedora 31 repos, and to get it to work some system and firewall configuration is required. This is all pretty well documented in a github issue now, but it took a lot of troubleshooting at first. My solution to this was to use podman[0] instead. 0: https://podman.io/whatis.html https://podman.io/whatis.html

linuxhansl 6y ago

Super big fan. I had Lenovo's with Linux for the past 20 years. My 7yo T440p is still working very well and my son is using that one now. The brand new X1E Gen2 works flawlessly on Linux. Granted, I'm using Fedora, not Ubuntu. Fedora tends to be bleeding edge, even for the X1E Gen2 all I had to do is install Fedora from the LiveCD (I'm using the KDE spin) and it just works. (this laptop still came with Windows only, so I deleted that and install Fedora)

danans 6y ago

I think what's cool is that there now at least 3 different supported ways to run Linux on laptops today: 1. Directly run your traditional Linux distro (i.e. on these Lenovos, System76 laptops, etc). 2. Run WSL using Windows on a Windows laptop. 3. Run Crostini Linux VM on a Chromebook. In the past, the Linux laptop options were largely limited to those who wanted to install it unsupported on devices (remember the campaigns to get refunds for the default Windows installations on laptops?). And sure, the above listed supported commercial solutions don't embody the hacker ethos of the old Linux-on-laptop communities, but they do represent the growth of Linux as a broadly usable software development environment.

nominated1 6y ago

When looking at Linux support I start with the Linux Vendor Firmware Service [1]. If the model I’m looking at isn’t supported then it’s off my list. You’ll notice that not all Thinkpads are supported [2]. The E, L and Yoga series are not supported but the T, P and X series are. [1] https://fwupd.org/ https://fwupd.org/ [2] https://fwupd.org/lvfs/search?&value=thinkpad https://fwupd.org/lvfs/search?&value=thinkpad

_-david-_ 6y ago
Some Thinkpads that are not supported provide bootable isos that you can use to update your bios. It is my understanding that it also updates the firmware (but it doesn't explicitly say). Here is an E model that has a bootable iso: https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-edge-laptops/thinkpad-e480-type-20kn-20kq/downloads/ds501843 https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netb...
- nominated1 6y ago
  Yes, many vendors for many models do the same. Even if they don’t you could install it via Windows. “Support” is more than just the ability to install an update. It’s to do with whether an issue affecting Linux is being addressed. In the case of the E and L series Thinkpads there are many shared components with the T series so your chances are much better.
  - type0 6y ago
    > Even if they don’t you could install it via Windows. Some enterprise PCs only have Windows, DOS and RHEL, SUSE options. There's no reason to use Windows when you can update BIOS and firmware via CentOS Live image with RHEL binaries.
- everybodyknows 6y ago
  My L560 is seemingly supported through fwup -- provided the existing firmware is not too old: fwupdmgr commands fail with: Not compatible with firmware version 0.1.22, requires >= 0.1.42 And indeed history on fwupd.org goes back only to 0.1.43: https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devices/com.lenovo.ThinkPadN1HET.firmware https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devices/com.lenovo.ThinkPadN1HET.firm... Leaving a bootable ISO as apparently the only option. The snag being that the documentation refers only to Windows, and describes various Windows-UEFI interactions. https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles/n1hur35w.txt https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles/n1hur35w.txt So, the $1500 question is, could there be some hidden risk of bricking the laptop, at least for Linux installations?

tomxor 6y ago

It's really good to see official support for Linux broadening. Whether you love or hate Lenovo products/service etc (they are far from perfect) this decision will spur on competition and provide more choice and better support for all in the future.

luord 6y ago

"What’s more, Lenovo will also upstream device drivers directly to the Linux kernel, to help maintain stability and compatibility throughout the life of the workstation." Particularly liked this bit.

dzonga 6y ago

now the OS's need to improve. thinkpad's have had stellar support for linux. own a t490 and have run several distros from manjaro, redhat etc now on ubuntu 20.04. the distros need to work on hdpi support, consolidate desktop environments. kde is nice for some things n gnome is too. like for me on kde, the brightness setting was wonky. gnome no support for media controls. then finally linux can takover. I don't know the story about wayland - but it seems most apps don't support it

wilsonfiifi 6y ago

What’s dual (or multiple) monitor Support like with Linux these days? Thinking of getting the dell xps developer edition because it seems to be the one that offers the best compatibility but I would personally prefer a Lenovo.

Joeri 6y ago
Multiple monitors are not a problem, but mixed DPI is. It supposedly works fine in wayland, but I tried and failed to switch over to wayland. In X apps always appear the wrong size on one display or the other.
- wilsonfiifi 6y ago
  Oh boy! Well I'll just stay in the expensive "Mac-land"...