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Simplifying Board Games
- michaelbuckbee 6y agoI really like OP's approach here but still, find that some kids' specific games are quite good on their own. In particular, Ticket to Ride: First Journey is a great adaptation to the full game. Another one that nobody believes me about (because it sounds like such a preposterous cash grab) is Super Mario Brothers Monopoly. But the changed some of the fundamentally boring aspects of the game to make it really quick to play and introduced the concept of "hero" characters with unique abilities to it.
- dimitropoulos 6y agoWe've had really good success with Magic Maze Kids - as well as Ticket to Ride: First Journey and Catan Junior (both of which are fantastic). The thing that Magic Maze Kids has going for it is an _absolutely fabulous_ tutorial system that slowly introduces every mechanic of the game. Other games like Pigasus and Snowman Dice (both by Brain Games I think) have been a hit too.
- bradly 6y agoWhat ages do you recommend those games for?
- sephlietz 6y agoBoardGameGeek is usually a good resource for this. https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/125921/catan-junior https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/125921/catan-junior
- dimitropoulos 6y agoI think if you're willing to be VERY flexible with all rules, 2.5 is old enough to play all of the above. When we play with younger kids we try really hard to emphasize fun and downplay stringent rule following, for better or for worse. Some games, like snowman dice, are fun just for the sake of it. It's fun to roll the dice and push them around. I'd say Catan Junior is fine for a 3 year old, but make sure to spend the first few times just familiarizing the rules (i.e. making the connection between getting a resource and spending it by matching up the resources on your resource card). Ticket to Ride Junior is a little bit harder, but a 3 year old should do ok with help. Again, if you really "take it easy" about the rules a very young child can have a lot of fun with these if for nothing other than the colors and manipulatives/meeples alone. Magic Maze Kids we did starting at 2.5-3ish and it was fine. Pigasus, on the other hand, a 2 year old can do and really enjoy. That game is absolutely amazing because it's one of those things that a small child can do better than some adults (like... for real!). Also the sound the pig makes when you squeeze it is incredibly funny to most kids and very rewarding. It's a fun one.
- mpettitt 6y agoMy 3yo daughter can handle Ticket to Ride First Journey, and even now knows some of the city names (we actually have a German edition, since I couldn't find an English one at a sensible price). It plays a bit quicker than the full version, so tends to hold her attention longer.
- sephlietz 6y agoOur family has also found this to be true for Catan Junior. It's a great game on its own with quite a lot of replay value, so we end up sometimes playing Catan Junior even though everyone has the ability to play Settlers of Catan.
- chrisweekly 6y agoSame experience
- moultano 6y agoThe game I've found with the most cross-generational appeal is Kingdomino. I've played it with 3 year olds and teenagers at the same time, and both enjoyed it. They only change we make to the rules for the younger kids is removing the 5x5 restriction on the size of your kingdom.
- nicoburns 6y agoI also like this approach. And I've found the opposite way around also works pretty well: kids (say age 4-6+) are perfectly capable of playing the full adult versions of games.
- m12k 6y agoI've found the challenge isn't so much for them to understand the rules as much is it's holding their attention with something not as instantly gratifying as the other entertainment they are used to in apps and video streaming.
- svachalek 6y agoKeep 'em off the drugs. Board games are excellent for building math intuition.
- nicoburns 6y agoAh, my siblings and I were only allowed an hour of screen time a week when we younger. So that wasn't really an issue. I think an hour a week is a bit extreme, but I definitely intend to put strong limits on my children, especially when they're young.
- philsnow 6y agoMy oldest kid once mopped the floor with me, 7 games in a row at Love Letter. I didn't throw the games to make him happy, he just plain had a combination of good draws and good play. He was 7 at the time. Kids are amazing.
- sdenton4 6y agoI've played Carcassonne with kids who couldn't read yet; it's great! No language dependence whatsoever! OTOH, I typically teach adults how to play Race for the Galaxy by starting out with a few hands of San Juan... It's a very similar, but much much simpler game.
- Spellman 6y agoIndeed, there are also plenty of great board games that are targeted towards kids! Don't need to run simplified Adult games. The HABA publishing series is always a hit. Rhino Hero working for kids and adults alike. First Orchard teaches the basics of game mechanics to younger kids. Set Junior simplifies Set for kiddos. Ice Cool is a great dexterity game. The Magic Labyrinth (2009) involves mental mapping and memorization skills. Looney Quest is a great drawing game as you try to collect coins and avoid the bad stuff. Not to mention all the Junior games of heavy classics like Ticket to Ride: First Journey, My First Stone Age, etc. Obviously the downside is they likely will outgrow these simplified versions. So the value of hacking the games you love as an adult is definitely a big plus and lets you save money and work them towards great board games. But on the other hand, why strip out all the pieces when you can play something designed for that age demographic?
- karatestomp 6y agoThe best Monopoly is the one on the NES with a four-score adapter :-) All the standard rules, no-one can modify them, runs the auctions for you, plays very fast. D-pad and four buttons (counting select and start) so even young kids (or oldsters) with no gaming experience can pick it up fast. I wouldn't ordinarily recommend a video game as a complete replacement for the physical version of a board game, but in the case of Monopoly, yes, definitely, find the simplest video game version you can and use that.
- wallfacer 6y agoMy mom suggested I buy NES Monopoly when I was about 10. I protested at first, but I quickly fell in love and played endlessly. Monopoly is not a well-designed game to play with people but, surprisingly, amazing and interesting to play against an 8-bit computer.
- captn3m0 6y agoThe one major improvement is that you're having to buy just the full game instead of 2 variants. The chances are you already have the original full game, and using that to teach a reduced set makes sense if you don't wanna (or can't) buy the smaller set because it will stop being fun in a year once the kid learns the main game. There is also the fact that some games won't even have reduced sets (Guillotine for eg), or will have it but it will be impossibly hard to get where I live. I can easily get a copy of TTR in India, but finding a copy of TTR:1st Journey is much tougher.
- WorldMaker 6y agoTarget (the stores) has been a really interesting force for encouraging board game designers to adapt their games to entry level. TtR: First Journey, Catan Junior, Evolution's base game rebranded and cleaned up to be an entry level game leaving Evolution: Climate the new "base game" for more experienced groups, Captain Sonar Junior. So far it seems that most designers that have accepted Target's challenge have built great adaptations that don't water down their main concepts too much and are great starting points to the deeper games.
- larrik 6y agoSuper Mario Brothers Monopoly is good, but it's only 4 players, and I have 3 kids... :(
- thom 6y agoI have enjoyed tabletop games less and less as the number of 'things' has increased. There are way too many games that require 15 different piles of things, which is not just physically annoying in terms of setting up and playing, but also such a cognitive overhead in the game. Somehow even quite deep games like Magic: the Gathering or D&D (or indeed chess) manage their complexity more elegantly, by having fewer concepts iterated many times (although in the case of D&D this is managed by the DM who certainly has a terribly complex job). For example, Mage Knight in some sense tries to create a simplified version of parts of D&D, but it does it with so many moving parts that I freak out at the thought of event getting it out of the box. Whereas I can play actual D&D with one dice and some words.
- agentultra 6y agoAh but I loooooooooove Vlada games with deep, crunchy mechanics and many moving parts. I also love games that are conceptually simple but require mastery like Chess, Go, and their like. There is a range and the explosion in popularity of boardgaming in this last decade has been a boon as we've seen such a wide array of games and play styles cater to everyone on the spectrum!
- thom 6y agoSure, this is entirely personal taste and I will admit somewhat driven by limited time now I have kids. If we're getting the gang together it's annoying to spend ages setting up, whereas sitting down for an MtG draft is so easy and feels like it has infinite variety.
- agentultra 6y agoI actually only play games like Mage Knight solo as I don't know anyone else like me who enjoys that sort of game!
- Lazare 6y ago> I have enjoyed tabletop games less and less as the number of 'things' has increased. There are many, many, MANY games exploring the opposite end of the design space. If you want simple, there are designers and publishers working on that. I mean, there's also Mage Knight, but lots of people love Mage Knight. It's a big hobby! Very few games will appeal to more than a small subset of the fan base. I don't want to recommend anything as such (I have no idea what you're into!) but games like Azul, Splendour, and Patchwork have been super popular recently, and are very clean, minimalist designs. Or a couple steps up the complexity level, Wingspan.
- brutus1213 6y agoI have been trying to get my 4 year old into board games. I grew up on snakes and ladder, ludo and later monopoly. That hasn't piqued my little ones interest at all. Here is what worked .. my first castle panic .. this was super simple and got her engaged. There was another simple game called kraken attack that had cool looking pieces and got her engaged. Finally, we play a randomish game with the agricola board and kingdomino. Moral of the story is relax, bend the rules, teach simple things like turn taking, post-game clean up, and have fun!
- dimitropoulos 6y agoThanks for the suggestion on My First Castle Panic! Just grabbed it - looks great! And I couldn't agree more on the "relax, bend the rules" side of things. It's all about fun.
- brutus1213 6y agoGood luck. Two other suggestions for that age group that we found worked: Animal upon Animal (kinda expensive for the simple pieces you get but it felt so much fun, the wife joined in me and the daughter play!) and S.O.S Dino (gorgeous pieces and educational concept; my kid lost interest for some reason I could not understand; game was super interesting and simple)
- rayalez 6y agoFor the past couple of weeks I've been trying to do something like that for DnD. Come up with a system that doesn't have countless intricate rules and tedious arithmetics, but instead focuses on the social/creative aspects of the game, encourages creativity, improvisation, and storytelling. Keeping the rules fun, simple, accessible, yet flexible and powerful. Something you can play with your kids, or introduce to non-gamer friends to have a fun evening or two (but also is capable of supporting longer campaigns if you get into it). You can learn everything you need to play the game by reading a couple of pages, or teach it in 10-15 minutes. The project is still in the very early stages, basically a draft, but I'd love to know what you think: https://playmirage.io/ https://playmirage.io/ (For people who have some good ideas about the rules, or want to contribute ideas for spells, magic items, and adventures - project is open source and available on github: https://github.com/raymestalez/mirage https://github.com/raymestalez/mirage)
- sjbrown 6y agoIf you want critical feedback for your design and suggestions of other games that share some of your goals, you should peek into the /r/RPGDesign subreddit and The Gauntlet Forums.
- AlphaWeaver 6y agoAn interesting idea in this space is the concept of a "D&D microsystem," which I think seeks to solve some of the problems you mention above. I run games using a modified version of "Rolling for Shoes" [0] to much success with friends & family as a way to pass the time on long car rides. [0]: https://rollforshoes.com/ https://rollforshoes.com/
- blaser-waffle 6y ago> For the past couple of weeks I've been trying to do something like that for DnD. Come up with a system that doesn't have countless intricate rules and tedious arithmetics, but instead focuses on the social/creative aspects of the game, encourages creativity, improvisation, and storytelling. No shortage of rules-lite RPGs out there, with varying degrees of similarity to D&D. FATE and FUDGE are the two that come to mind, but there are lots of others. There Is No Spoon, a simple RPG that was big on RPG.net a while back is another good example.
- agentultra 6y agoThis is how I introduced board gaming with my children. There are kids versions of some of the more popular games like Settlers and Carcasonne which can be fun as well. We also play No Thank You, Evil! which is a lot of fun as my kids have wild imaginations and really enjoy playing pretend. Especially in this pandemic moment it has been a very useful technique to have around. Of course even in role playing one doesn't require a boxed game to play. A few dice and some cards often suffice. Simplifying Microlite20 [0] and throw in a kid-friendly setting with some problem solving is a great way to pass the time and see how your kids think! [0] https://microlite20.org https://microlite20.org
- dowakin 6y agoI'm using same trick with my 5 years son. In past I've tried kids editions (like ticket to ride first jorney). But they become boring too fast. Plus kid like to play "real" game, not game for small kids.
- cybwraith 6y agoDon't forget the classic abstracts, too! Chess, go, etc. You may have a prodigy and never know it otherwise!
- adamredwoods 6y agoTzaar is a great abstract that my son enjoys!
- jefftk 6y agoLily got very into chess when she was ~5y, and kept trying to get her 3y sister Anna to play with her. Anna didn't like Chess and wrote about it: https://www.annakaufmanwise.com/chess https://www.annakaufmanwise.com/chess
- krm01 6y agoSlightly off-topic but Love your blog. The pages for your kids, did you build a simple CMS for them to create pages? Or taught them to write static HTML pages? I’m thinking of doing the latter myself.
- bytematic 6y agoI bought board game simulator recently to play with my friends. Many of the most popular games were just too intimidating to play, this would have really helped us haha
- a-saleh 6y agoI do simmilar things :-) I.e. have been playing Carcasone when my was 4y, we just didn't play with the 'farmer' or we played KingDomino, and she just didn't have to adhere to the rule that your kingdom needs to fit 5x5 grid.
- CJefferson 6y agoI really like this, I feel too many games have pieces "for the sake of it". For fun I've been trying to develop AIs which can play games, mainly so I can then try finding the "minimal viable rules", the simplest version of a game which is still in some sense "interesting".
- jefftk 6y agoI wrote some about trying to find the simplest interesting game a few years ago: https://www.jefftk.com/p/simplest-interesting-game https://www.jefftk.com/p/simplest-interesting-game
- jordanpg 6y agoA related concern that this brings to mind is the act of teaching complex rulesets to players who are playing for the first time. It's not unusual for only one person in a group to have taken the time to learn the rules, by reading the rulebook, or more often these days, by watching a video. Then, that person is informally responsible for communicating the rules to the other players, tutorial-style. For games beyond a certain level of complexity, I have sometimes found this process to be absurd. For example, it might be obvious that the rules are not being followed correctly or consistently. Or more frequently, players are playing their first playthrough haphazardly, with no real understanding of the games mechanics. And no one wants to be a rules lawyer. These things are normal and the games are meant to be fun, above all else, but at the same time, playing a game incorrectly or with partial knowledge is unfun to me, especially since it's not unusual to only play a game once these days. I think the suggestion for gamemakers to include graduated tutorial materials, written or video, allowing players to trivially pick up the basics and begin playing immediately is very useful, and will encourage players to come back to the same games more than once.
- jefftk 6y agoDepends on your gaming culture. If you're friends with a lot of people who play games, and you learn games from each other, then it will be very rare to have a game that no one present has ever played before. When I think through the games I play, I remember being taught all of them by other people. I wonder whether maybe game-makers are usually in this sort of environment, and so don't think as much about the experience of a group of four beginners sitting down to try out a game?
- pessimizer 6y ago> If you're friends with a lot of people who play games, and you learn games from each other, then it will be very rare to have a game that no one present has ever played before. Only if you and all of your friends play from a very limited, range of games. In my experience, people like this exclusively play games that are currently or have been recently heavily marketed. I'm friends with a lot of people who play games, I own a disturbing amount of games, and I sit at a table and play a game that no one at the table has played about weekly during normal times, maybe biweekly now that I'm stuck online. As a person who researches and finds a lot of games, it's very often me who's teaching the game that none of us have played. In my experience, people who are really into games are constantly playing oddball, older, and obscure games, from the rules.
- _ZeD_ 6y agoafter all this years - poker and neapolitan[0] cards apart - the most fun and interesting "board" game I played is still Bang![1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_playing_cards#Napoletane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_playing_cards#Napoleta... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang!_(card_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang!_(card_game)
- chapium 6y agoI've found that many games translate easily to 5 year olds by tweaking the rules. Removing hidden information and playing cooperatively works best.
- cptskippy 6y agoCompetition was the I think the biggest barrier for my youngest, she hates losing. Old Maid flips the equation a little because there's only 1 loser and many winners. Carcassonne can be played without keeping track of points, just rules for how you lay tiles. We recently got a game called Outfoxed! where you collectively hunt down a thief, it's great for kids because it exercises memory and deductive reasoning to eliminate suspects, and you have to strategize as a team.
- chapium 6y agoWe played pengaloo a lot. Its a matching game. We just work together to find the matching eggs. The kids enjoy the thrill of checking the eggs as well as the cute characters.
- funkaster 6y agoI have been playing Hero Kids[0] with my 4yo son since he was 3.5 and we have a blast every session. the best part of it, is how flexible are the rules and you can relax them as much as you want for smaller kids. I can def see how the approach in the article could make complex games more accesible to kids. As soon as my son is a bit bigger I’ll try this for sure. [0]: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/106605 https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/106605
- cptskippy 6y agoA few of the games mentioned don't really need simplification. I've been playing Carcassonne with my daughter since she was 3 years old. She can't do the scoring but she understands all the rules and how to earn points. The only thing we simplified originally was just not using Farmers. We recently got a game called Outfoxed! which says it's for 5+, she picked it up after the first round. The hardest concept for her was moving diagonally and that you aren't allowed to in the game. It's a great game for learning to read names since all of the Foxes have unique and not trivial names to pronounce.
- iso947 6y agoYes my youngest loves carcassone, we played. He’s 5 now and we also play ttr (first journey and London), catan junior, and he is a big fan of Station Master, which is an odd little game we picked up pre kids. We went through a phase with outfoxed And guess who, but he preferred the rest now.
- eru 6y agoIf the kids like Catan derivatives, you might also want to try Bohnanza. The recommended age on the box is a hilarious 13+. But I've played it with bright 5 year olds. See https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/11/bohnanza https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/11/bohnanza
- cmos 6y agoAnnoyed by the money and harshness of interactions in a game like monopoly with 5-8 year olds we created "Friendopoly". When you land on someones property you are invited to camp on their lawn or sleep in their house or hotel. The railroads are all connected, there are no chance or community chest cards, and it's just a fun time going around the board that is more communal.
- eru 6y agoMonopoly is an awful game. I'm glad you don't play that. But also have a look at the modern 'German' style boardgames. They are much better than the bad old American classics like Monopoly. 'Ticket to Ride' and Carcassonne are a good gateway games for example.
- wishinghand 6y agoNot a board game, but Shadowrun definitely has a complexity problem. It's set in a cyberpunk future where magic has also reawakened, bringing in Tolkien-esque creatures as well. You can be a hacker, mage, cyber warrior, or just a smooth talker. However, each of those archetypes has different rules, and are essentially their own game. And for the GM, you have to know all of the rules relevant to not only the people playing with you, but any enemies they might run into. The setting is amazing, but it's dying for a rewrite (and I don't mean Shadowrun Anarchy). There's been some attempts to make a Powered by the Apocalypse version, but none have gained a large amount of traction.
- eru 6y agoThrowing one million D6 also gets old after a while.
- rossdavidh 6y agoI like it, and having played board games with my (now adolescent) daughter for years, it all rings true to my experience. One thing I would like to point out is that a lot of software (including applications, languages, frameworks, etc) would benefit from a similar approach. When the tutorial starts out with "install these five things and then set up this environment and take on board these thirty pieces of jargon and now we can do something", it is hindering its own growth. Usually, it was nothing like that when it started, and just added things to make it "easier" (for people who already knew the basics), without realizing that they were cutting off their flow of new users.
- torgoguys 6y agoThese days there are so many board games out there that if you are looking for a "simplified ______", another game probably already exists and fills that niche reasonably well. Shout out here to Heroscape, which is my favorite game and is basically a simplified version of a miniature war game. It is an interesting case study for this article too because Heroscape comes with two rulebooks, one for a basic game and another for the advanced game. (Although even the "advanced" game is much simplier than most minature games). Heroscape also introduced complexity over time with its many expansions (primarily new miniatures which each of special powers). The game was discontinued back in 2010, but still has a community of fans going strong at https://www.heroscapers.com https://www.heroscapers.com. The forums are great.
- tmaly 6y agoI have found a number of age appropriate games at a local toy store. The owner is very good at curating them. Sloth in a Hurry is for ages 5+, my daughter loves to play it with us.
- alasdair_ 6y agoOne of the first comments mentioned “super mario brothers monopoly” being a well designed game for kids. I’d like to add that the Star Wars monopoly is also very well designed and has a lot of new features that solve the biggest problems of the game taking too long, of those ahead almost always staying ahead and for the game being boring when itnisnt your turn. Games finish in under an hour. They have cards that opponents can play during your turn to block or change your moves. Best of all, it’s only possibly for you (as a single player) to win if your side (datk or light) has the most point, making it an interesting semi-team game. It’s a great game and I’ve played it with many professional game designers who also really like it.
- mleonhard 6y agoWhich version are you referring to? I found several versions on Amazon which appear to have different gameplay.
- eru 6y agoWould people still play these Monopoly-derivatives, if they were not associated with the Monopoly brand? But it's good to hear that they seem to be moving 'Monopoly' into a direction of something more playable.
- wj 6y agoI never bought any of those as I assumed they were the same game of Monopoly but with different pieces and renamed properties. I had no idea about different gameplay.
- renewiltord 6y agoThere are also games with simple mechanics. I think Century : Spice Road and the various Forbidden Island / Desert games are good examples.