8 ms·
> we encoded a set of rules that on their face did not discriminate on race. But their effect was basically to prevent black people from voting and enjoying the
by yosito 6y ago
> we encoded a set of rules that on their face did not discriminate on race. But their effect was basically to prevent black people from voting and enjoying their civil liberties.
That is quite a claim. I am neither agreeing or disagreeing, as I don't know enough about this. Could you share some specific examples of the rules that you are referring to and evidence that they were intended to prevent black people from voting and enjoying their civil liberties?
- throwlaplace 6y agoWhat do you think share cropping and Jim crow laws were? What do you think the several civil rights acts following the 14th amendment were addressing? What do you think separate but equal and then desegregation was? Why is it that there's always someone asking for "proof" of racism? Anyone with a high school diploma knows about these things and yet all of that well known history is insufficient proof. edit: we rightfully so recognize people demanding proof of the holocaust as bad actors. why not with this?
- x86_64Ubuntu 6y agoBecause the people demanding proof are generally sympathetic to with whatever they are acting like didn't happen. In the US we don't ask for "proof" on the Holocaust, but we do have Holocaust deniers which is similar in the sense that it seeks to dismiss any claims of harm or violence.
- natdempk 6y agoI think the best/most common example of this is the Jim Crow laws implemented shortly after the civil war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws That Wikipedia article has a lot of detail in it that explains things well beyond what I could within an HN comment, but I think one example is "separate but equal" which was anything but equal.
- re 6y agoI don't know specifically which rules the parent is referring to--their phrasing ("Post US Civil war, we encoded a set of rules") makes it sound like it is referring to the US as a whole, but I'm not sure if that is their intent. Some rules at the state level, before they were forbidden by the Voting Rights Act of 1965, included poll taxes and literacy tests. This is also where the term "grandfather clause" originates, as people whose grandfathers could vote (i.e. whites) were sometimes exempted from these requirements. > evidence that they were intended I will say that evidence of intent is not necessary or relevant to the claim. Subjectivity in the application and execution of the voting process--for instance, where to place polling stations--can end up disadvantaging minorities due to implicit/unconscious bias in administrators, even unintentionally.
- claudeganon 6y agoAllowing slavery to continue as a legal form of punishment is an obvious one
- thundergolfer 6y agoThis user is referring to slave labour in prisons, explicitly allowed by the 13th amendment to the USA constitution.
- throwlaplace 6y agoIndeed. And note that black men are overrepresented in the prison population.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- geofft 6y agoHere's a concrete example from about a month ago: sanitation workers in New Orleans went on strike, so the state ordered prisoners to pick up trash instead. Quite convenient to have a bunch of laborers that you can order around. https://www.wdsu.com/article/livingston-work-release-inmates-now-picking-up-garbage-in-new-orleans-east/32418004 https://www.wdsu.com/article/livingston-work-release-inmates...
- masonic 6y agoYour "concrete example" doesn't say that any prisoners were forced to do anything. Many volunteer for work release to make money, get outside, and/or gain work experience. If you have firsthand knowledge of any of these individuals being forced to work in this effort, by all means share it.
- geofft 6y agoSlaves also weren't forced to do anything. They volunteered to work to avoid being whipped.
- joe_the_user 6y agoThe parent is referring (not that accurately) to the variety of laws known as Jim Crow[1]. It's remarkable that these aren't widely if not universally known today. They were effectively eliminated by the Voting Rights Act[2]. Note, that Jim Crow was enacted not immediately after the Civil War but after the reconstruction period[3]. The aftermath of reconstruction involved a period of racist terror where the Ku Klux Klan and other forces effectively engaged in a guerilla campaign that restored white supremacy in the South. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965 [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_era https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_era
- germinalphrase 6y agoAnd before Jim Crow we had the Black Codes.
- markc 6y ago>They were effectively eliminated by the Voting Rights Act Except that key provisions of the act were struck down in 2013. Those provisions prevented states with a history of disenfranchisement from changing their voting laws. Since the court ruling several of these states have started back on the path of disenfranchisement.
- joe_the_user 6y agoIndeed, I should have mentioned that too.
- kmonsen 6y agoYeah, the Supreme Court argument was the racism was no longer an issue so no reason to keep watching over those good old boys in the south.
- donw 6y agoIt's also important to mention the Black Codes[1], which were, effectively, a reimplementation of slavery that just didn't use the word "slave". Many of these laws existed before the Civil War, and were simply "updated" to replace the word "slave" with "freedman". Other laws cleverly redefined common terms, introducing technical language, so that they could claim that a former slave, forced to work for little or no pay, was "serving an apprenticeship" or "being punished for vagrancy". E.g., a slave in reality, but "on paper" an apprentice, a volunteer, serving a criminal sentence, etc. Black Codes also severely limited the ability of black citizens to gather and organize, required impossible "literacy tests" to vote, and prevented black citizens from owning any type of weapon, either outright: Louisiana: "No freedman shall be allowed to carry firearms, or any kind of weapons." Or via a "may issue" licensing scheme: Alabama: "Freedmen must not carry knives or firearms unless they were licensed so to do." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Codes_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Codes_(United_States)
- kerkeslager 6y agoSome of these no longer exist, but some do: Grandfather voting clauses: https://www.thoughtco.com/grandfather-clauses-voting-rights-4570970 https://www.thoughtco.com/grandfather-clauses-voting-rights-... Felony disfranchisement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_the_United_States#Racial_disparities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_t... Related to felony disfranchisement, the war on drugs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_the_war_on_drugs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_the_war_on_drugs Gun control laws: https://newrepublic.com/article/112322/gun-control-racist https://newrepublic.com/article/112322/gun-control-racist Literacy tests: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test#Voting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test#Voting Cash bail: https://harvardlawreview.org/2018/02/bail-reform-and-risk-assessment-the-cautionary-tale-of-federal-sentencing/ https://harvardlawreview.org/2018/02/bail-reform-and-risk-as... Stop and frisk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_City#Controversy_regarding_misuse_and_claims_of_racial_profiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_Cit... Some of these fall under the broader category of Jim Crow Laws[1], but most the original Jim Crow Laws are more obvious in their racism. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws
- SEJeff 6y agoredlining wasn't a law (it is illegal now), but it really supercharged these sorts of things by putting all of the PoC in very specific areas that were always depressed away from all of the white folk.
- throwlaplace 6y agowhat's the difference between a law and a policy? redlining explicitly excluded black neighborhoods from FHA loans.
- dannypgh 6y agoLaws are passed by Congress, policies are created by the executive to define things left unspecified by law, pursuant to broader powers granted by Congress. Policies that aren't laws carry the same effective force of law, but they can be changed on a whim by the president with an executive order. The Federal Home Loan Bank Act established the agencies that would create redlining, but the redlining itself was created by the administrators and independent agencies created by the act.
- 3131s 6y agoIt's a widely accepted claim, just so you know.
- candu 6y agoAssuming charitably for a moment that you're posting in good faith: if you're wondering why you're being downvoted, it's likely because these laws, their effects, and exceedingly strong evidence of racist intent behind them are all easily verifiable matters of historical fact. (See, for instance, Jim Crow laws, redlining policies, poll taxes, etc. as many other commenters have already pointed to.)
- choward 6y agoDid you grow up in the US? If so, did you have any history classes?