4 ms·

Spoiler: a massive pile of Ofo (yellow), Mobike (orange) and Bluegogo (blue) bikes scrapped after China's share bike boom went bust.

beamatronic 6y ago
How does anyone justify that kind of waste?
- pojzon 6y ago
  For a second it generated a lot of profit for shareholders - thats enough for most.
  - 8bitsrule 6y ago
    What will it take to help these people see how incredibly irresponsible, undefendably wasteful and doomed this approach to product-making is? 'If it doesn't work for us we don't care about that'? Its akin to removing repairability from products designed to be inseparable from eternal profit-taking. What the much-touted 'free market' they talk up really wants is product that lasts and/or can be fixed or repurposed. I've never heard anyone say 'I love to buy crap' or 'I'm okay with buying a new one frequently'. What they mean by 'free' - of regulation - is unsustainable.
    - lopmotr 6y ago
      Some people are materialistic - that is they place a high value on material things. It's often older people who grew up when manufactured goods were valuable. I'm like this myself. Other people aren't - they don't form an emotional bond with a used electric motor or an empty drink bottle. They just use whatever's available and focus on other aspects of their life besides material objects. I think this is more normal for young people who grew up with plentiful cheap products and all these renting and sharing services. For them, the value is in the use, not the possession.
      - michaelmrose 6y ago
        Half of the US and almost all of the world can't afford to be wasteful for reasons having nothing whatsoever to do with emotional attachments. People react emotionally to waste not because of emotional attachments to things but because wasting feels shameful to people who worry about having enough. I wonder how many poor people could have been helped by a free electric bike. Unfortunately this would potentially compete with ubers services.
        beamatronic 6y ago
        Exactly this. Sometimes when I recycle something like a glass jar, I have this vision of a parent 1000 years from now in a post-apocalypse society, trying to bring a little clean water to their village, and how much they might appreciate that clean glass jar.
        lopmotr 6y ago
        Even if they're sold, they're not going to go to poor people. If poor people could improve their lives with a scooter that requires money, skills and effort to charge and maintain it, they wouldn't be poor. The whole reason they're poor is they don't do useful things, not because they can't afford useful stuff. This is developed country poor people I'm talking about. If they were concerned about waste, they wouldn't spend so much of their little money on drugs, alcohol, and McDonalds. I agree with the shameful thing. But a lot of older people do have enough yet they carry the emotional baggage of their poor younger selves. I know people who save old broken appliances with the aim of repairing or selling them oneday but eventually realized nobody wants a box of old electrical plugs or a broken washing machine from the 1970's when even the poorest people are given free money to buy a washing machine by social welfare and used electrical cables are practically free.
        michaelmrose 6y ago
        Your perspective is positively dystopian. You literally have no understanding of the issues that others face that are materially different than your own. The majority of the poor are all around you doing useful work not drinking and drugging their imaginary free money you think welfare gives them to buy washing machines away. The rich and the poor often face the same challenges. For example they do stupid things. They lose a job. They develop a medical condition. They fail some classes. Someone around them dies. The get divorced. Money means you have tools to get past roadblocks knowing that in the meanwhile your entire life wont disintegrate beneath you if you stall out for a short period of time. The poor instead watch their life fall apart trivially easily and fall between the cracks or more often soldier on leading lessor but still productive lives. They are often poor because although they do a substantial degree of useful work society doesn't value the work they do very much because there is more than enough people available to do it instead of starving. This is how economics works. Let me reiterate, most poor people in America work! Your particular myopic world view is common enough it has a name. The just world hypothesis. I'm sorry you can't see the people around you very clearly. I'm poor. Nobody has ever offered me money to buy a washing machine. I don't do drugs. I don't like McDonald's. I don't get drunk. I have a job but my wife cant due to medical issues and receives no help of any kind because of it. Most of my money goes to buy food, shelter and medical care. If you walked by me you wouldn't notice that I looked especially poor. I dress decently but virtually my entire wardrobe is courtesy of better class thrift stores where I paid aprox $2 per item. Last year I probably spent about 30% of my earnings on medical insurance + care alone.
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    a riff on this https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5-lDJWCUAAwfya.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5-lDJWCUAAwfya.jpg ?
- lmm 6y ago
  Scrappers will get as much value as they can out of the things they take, whether that's selling something that works, breaking it down into parts that can be reused, or going all the way to raw materials. VCs are willing to take risks, with some justification: people can only innovate if they're given permission to fail.
  - lopis 6y ago
    Nothing less innovative than yet another bike sharing app. I see so few people using these bikes. I can't understand the value proposition for VCs to invest in them.
- sneak 6y ago
  The waste is really just in manufacturing-hours, and even that’s not too bad because, hey, the workers got paid. Metal is quite recyclable and the paths for doing so are extremely well-trod. They’ll melt the scrap, fear not.
  - netsharc 6y ago
    As for the energy requirements and the associated CO2 output with all that production and recycling... burn baby burn. Or should that be "burn mother Earth burn"? Covid-19 has made me forget that IMO we have about 20 years of comfortable life on this planet. Yeah yeah the human race will go on, but you and I will probably die of heat exhaustion some time in 204x...
    - michaelmrose 6y ago
      I think we will find someway to commit suicide as a species in the next century but I don't think any projection has many people dying of heat exhaustion anywhere rich enough to have AC.
      - ericd 6y ago
        What are the projections on our food supply dying of heat exhaustion?
        imtringued 6y ago
        That's a not a big problem for the farming mega corps. Some of their land will be fine, some of it will get worse and maybe with luck some of it will get better as you go further toward the north. It's a big deal for small farmers in developing countries where all of the land suddenly becomes unusable.
    - thesmok 6y ago
      Recycling aluminum is more energy efficient than making new aluminum. At this scale, I can imagine recycling this metal into new bicycles could be more efficient than fixing and distributing old bicycles.

beamatronic 6y ago

How does anyone justify that kind of waste?

pojzon 6y ago
For a second it generated a lot of profit for shareholders - thats enough for most.
- 8bitsrule 6y ago
  What will it take to help these people see how incredibly irresponsible, undefendably wasteful and doomed this approach to product-making is? 'If it doesn't work for us we don't care about that'? Its akin to removing repairability from products designed to be inseparable from eternal profit-taking. What the much-touted 'free market' they talk up really wants is product that lasts and/or can be fixed or repurposed. I've never heard anyone say 'I love to buy crap' or 'I'm okay with buying a new one frequently'. What they mean by 'free' - of regulation - is unsustainable.
  - lopmotr 6y ago
    Some people are materialistic - that is they place a high value on material things. It's often older people who grew up when manufactured goods were valuable. I'm like this myself. Other people aren't - they don't form an emotional bond with a used electric motor or an empty drink bottle. They just use whatever's available and focus on other aspects of their life besides material objects. I think this is more normal for young people who grew up with plentiful cheap products and all these renting and sharing services. For them, the value is in the use, not the possession.
    - michaelmrose 6y ago
      Half of the US and almost all of the world can't afford to be wasteful for reasons having nothing whatsoever to do with emotional attachments. People react emotionally to waste not because of emotional attachments to things but because wasting feels shameful to people who worry about having enough. I wonder how many poor people could have been helped by a free electric bike. Unfortunately this would potentially compete with ubers services.
      - beamatronic 6y ago
        Exactly this. Sometimes when I recycle something like a glass jar, I have this vision of a parent 1000 years from now in a post-apocalypse society, trying to bring a little clean water to their village, and how much they might appreciate that clean glass jar.
      - lopmotr 6y ago
        Even if they're sold, they're not going to go to poor people. If poor people could improve their lives with a scooter that requires money, skills and effort to charge and maintain it, they wouldn't be poor. The whole reason they're poor is they don't do useful things, not because they can't afford useful stuff. This is developed country poor people I'm talking about. If they were concerned about waste, they wouldn't spend so much of their little money on drugs, alcohol, and McDonalds. I agree with the shameful thing. But a lot of older people do have enough yet they carry the emotional baggage of their poor younger selves. I know people who save old broken appliances with the aim of repairing or selling them oneday but eventually realized nobody wants a box of old electrical plugs or a broken washing machine from the 1970's when even the poorest people are given free money to buy a washing machine by social welfare and used electrical cables are practically free.
        michaelmrose 6y ago
        Your perspective is positively dystopian. You literally have no understanding of the issues that others face that are materially different than your own. The majority of the poor are all around you doing useful work not drinking and drugging their imaginary free money you think welfare gives them to buy washing machines away. The rich and the poor often face the same challenges. For example they do stupid things. They lose a job. They develop a medical condition. They fail some classes. Someone around them dies. The get divorced. Money means you have tools to get past roadblocks knowing that in the meanwhile your entire life wont disintegrate beneath you if you stall out for a short period of time. The poor instead watch their life fall apart trivially easily and fall between the cracks or more often soldier on leading lessor but still productive lives. They are often poor because although they do a substantial degree of useful work society doesn't value the work they do very much because there is more than enough people available to do it instead of starving. This is how economics works. Let me reiterate, most poor people in America work! Your particular myopic world view is common enough it has a name. The just world hypothesis. I'm sorry you can't see the people around you very clearly. I'm poor. Nobody has ever offered me money to buy a washing machine. I don't do drugs. I don't like McDonald's. I don't get drunk. I have a job but my wife cant due to medical issues and receives no help of any kind because of it. Most of my money goes to buy food, shelter and medical care. If you walked by me you wouldn't notice that I looked especially poor. I dress decently but virtually my entire wardrobe is courtesy of better class thrift stores where I paid aprox $2 per item. Last year I probably spent about 30% of my earnings on medical insurance + care alone.
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  a riff on this https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5-lDJWCUAAwfya.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5-lDJWCUAAwfya.jpg ?
lmm 6y ago
Scrappers will get as much value as they can out of the things they take, whether that's selling something that works, breaking it down into parts that can be reused, or going all the way to raw materials. VCs are willing to take risks, with some justification: people can only innovate if they're given permission to fail.
- lopis 6y ago
  Nothing less innovative than yet another bike sharing app. I see so few people using these bikes. I can't understand the value proposition for VCs to invest in them.
sneak 6y ago
The waste is really just in manufacturing-hours, and even that’s not too bad because, hey, the workers got paid. Metal is quite recyclable and the paths for doing so are extremely well-trod. They’ll melt the scrap, fear not.
- netsharc 6y ago
  As for the energy requirements and the associated CO2 output with all that production and recycling... burn baby burn. Or should that be "burn mother Earth burn"? Covid-19 has made me forget that IMO we have about 20 years of comfortable life on this planet. Yeah yeah the human race will go on, but you and I will probably die of heat exhaustion some time in 204x...
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    I think we will find someway to commit suicide as a species in the next century but I don't think any projection has many people dying of heat exhaustion anywhere rich enough to have AC.
    - ericd 6y ago
      What are the projections on our food supply dying of heat exhaustion?
      - imtringued 6y ago
        That's a not a big problem for the farming mega corps. Some of their land will be fine, some of it will get worse and maybe with luck some of it will get better as you go further toward the north. It's a big deal for small farmers in developing countries where all of the land suddenly becomes unusable.
  - thesmok 6y ago
    Recycling aluminum is more energy efficient than making new aluminum. At this scale, I can imagine recycling this metal into new bicycles could be more efficient than fixing and distributing old bicycles.