7 ms·

As much as I would love a cheap e-bike to tinker with and restore (even if it's old), I can't say I'm surprised these are being recycled. On one hand, how woul

As much as I would love a cheap e-bike to tinker with and restore (even if it's old), I can't say I'm surprised these are being recycled. On one hand, how would it benefit their/Lime's business to have loads of people owning electric scooters and bikes? On the other hand, there really are logistical and liability issues involved with distributing old gear in varying states of repair. It's a shame they don't do something like gov/edu institutions and auction off the stuff as-is. At least then someone could theoretically buy it up to do something with it.

gowld 6y ago
> On one hand, how would it benefit their/Lime's business to have loads of people owning electric scooters and bikes? It stimulates demand for cycling/scooting infrastructure. A few owners of scooters aren't competing with renters. > auction off the stuff as-is That's pretty close to what recycling does, for items that can't be practically used due to design issues. The metals and batteries are resold as scrap.
Jemm 6y ago
Sell them in cities where electric bikes are not yet legal to start a grass roots movement to legalize them, which opens up a market.
hosh 6y ago
This could have been a commuter vehicle for someone who could not afford a car. I get that the business is disincentivized, but this is such a waste.
- d6e 6y ago
  Agreed, but unfortunately legal liabilities create huge wastes like this. It's why grocery stores go through extensive efforts to ensure you can't recover their thrown out good that has reached it's sell by date but is still good.
  - OldHand2018 6y ago
    In the US, the Good Samaritan Food Donation Act of 1996 eliminates the liability of grocery stores from donating or allowing people to "glean" food that it no longer can sell. If you know of a store that is destroying this type of food, please let them know that they can donate it without worrying about getting sued.
    - jgwil2 6y ago
      Yep, generally if you find food on the shelf that has past its sell-by date, they will give it to you for free.
    - Mirioron 6y ago
      It does underline the point though. A law had to be made almost 25 years ago to prevent this with food and people are still worried. Doesn't paint a rosy picture for everything else.
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        It depends on how things got there. If the law was made because of unjustified paranoia, to settle it, then you can't use the existence of that law as justification for the paranoia.
  - jrace 6y ago
    What legal liability would prevent them from selling, or even just giving them away "as is - where is"?
  - gambiting 6y ago
    I don't believe that's the case for one second. People sell second hand cars/motorcycles/bicycles/rollerblades all the time without worrying about liability afterwards, otherwise you'd be saying that US has no market for second hand equipment.
  - bogomipz 6y ago
    What legal liability is this exactly? People buy used bikes, motorcycles and cars all the time. Both from companies as well as other individuals.
- hadlock 6y ago
  Commuter bikes use non-standard parts to limit theft among other reasons. These bikes aren't end-user repairable using off the shelf parts.
  - mindslight 6y ago
    The quantity involved creates its own shelf.
toohotatopic 6y ago
If you own an e-bike you can reason that you don't need a car. You still need a car once in a while. That's the time to call an Uber. You may even ride an Uber every day, but you don't buy a car because you want to start riding your bike tomorrow because it is good for your health.
Jugurtha 6y ago
I was walking in our electronics department's hallway when I stopped and walked a few steps back. My peripheral vision picked up a pile of yummy: a load of lab gear in an office. I went in and asked about it. The person said they were to be discarded. I asked if I could take some. They said they were to be sold by the kilogram to a company. I asked if I could buy a few kilograms of oscilloscopes, multimetres, stabilized power sources, etc. They said no. Regulations, auctions, etc. Here I was, a broke electronics student, trying to procure electronics equipment, in an electronics department, with lunch money I was willing to part with, but unable to do so because someone needed to melt that thing down and make a horse shoe or some fork.
- aspenmayer 6y ago
  Somebody already bought the picking rights. I would have gone over the head of the person you asked, or call in a favor with someone at the same level of hierarchy. Ask them if you can have some of the stuff. If they say yes, tell the first person x said it's fine, and just take what you are allowed to take. Their red tape is only your problem if you can't self-help. It's not your job to enforce their agreements with third parties who aren't you. It's also not your job to inform them of existing agreements with third parties which you are privy to.
  - Jugurtha 6y ago
    Oh, the things I would have done in that situation if it took place somewhere where you don't get disappeared for a Facebook post, friend. I'll leave it at that. The underlying context is that I was practically a persona non grata. Teachers would happily leave the class to me during labs but hated the fact I barely attended. I'm talking not even grading your exam sheet, or putting an arbitrary grade, and not displaying it until the recourse deadline has passed because "screw you" and I'm talking putting "0" on all your grades because you missed one exam. Nobody will take the side of a student who'll be there for a limited time against a colleague they've worked with for 20+ years. Even if the behavior is unjust, the rationale for them is that you'll live and learn and forget about it and leave, but they're staying and have to work with the other person. Sure, the obvious step is to go manoeuver or call out these practices, invovle lawyers, and the media, and what not. Which brings me to my first paragraph. What is obvious and possible somewhere isn't somewhere else, or is but the stakes are too high. If I wanted to manoeuver in a cesspool, I would have become a politician. If I wanted to go to war, I would have become a martyr. The former is frowned upon, the latter is admired in other people from a distance.
dundarious 6y ago
My naive thought is that these could easily be auctioned off with no claim they are fit for purpose. Recycling should be a last resort.
- TrinaryWorksToo 6y ago
  That's literally why we have as-is warranties.
- viscanti 6y ago
  It appears these bikes were designed to not be user serviceable. Bespoke tools are needed to do any maintenance and there aren't off the shelf parts for anyone who would need anything replaced. This seems very different than selling a used car where the new owner would still have some expectation of being able to service and repair it. Presumably they also have bespoke chargers and not enough to sell with every bike so some people would be buying e-bikes that can't ever be charged. That's not an argument for not making them available. But it does substantially decrease the value. It's possible it pushes the value below what they'd get from recycling. If that's the case, it's easy to see why they'd recycle them instead of spending more time/money to try to sell a non-servicable and non-chargeable used bike.
  - linuxftw 6y ago
    They could sell the bikes dirt cheap, and make up the losses selling the proprietary tools.
    - viscanti 6y ago
      If the dirt cheap cost is substantially lower than the recycle price, why would they do that?
      - adrianN 6y ago
        To save some tons of CO2.
skwb 6y ago
Remember the old mantra of reduce > reuse > recycle? Environmental consumerism is supposed to be primarily focused on reducing when you can. If you cannot reduce consumption, then try to reuse as much as possible. And if you've exhausted reduce or reuse, then you try to recycle.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- lopmotr 6y ago
  Everything can be reduced and reused if you're willing to spend enough money. But obviously you have to recycle if the other options are too expensive. Environmentalists seem to forget that spending money is itself a waste - a waste of human effort and natural resources even if it saves something tangible like a wheel or an electric motor.
Arainach 6y ago
>On one hand, how would it benefit their/Lime's business to have loads of people owning electric scooters and bikes I see these as different use cases. I own an eBike which I use for commuting. I also use Lime bikes (before they shut down) to get around the city. The key difference is storage. If I take MY bike, I have to very securely lock it up, carry a heavy lock and chain around, and worry about whether my destination has storage. As such, it only gets me between work, home, and occasionally the store. On the other hand, I use Lime bikes to get across the city anywhere. If I'm going to a brewery or a concert or whatever, I just get close to my destination, find an out of the way, and get off the bike. It's significantly easier.
- nicbou 6y ago
  Sometimes you need a one-way mode of transportation. They are great for that.

gowld 6y ago

> On one hand, how would it benefit their/Lime's business to have loads of people owning electric scooters and bikes? It stimulates demand for cycling/scooting infrastructure. A few owners of scooters aren't competing with renters. > auction off the stuff as-is That's pretty close to what recycling does, for items that can't be practically used due to design issues. The metals and batteries are resold as scrap.

Jemm 6y ago

Sell them in cities where electric bikes are not yet legal to start a grass roots movement to legalize them, which opens up a market.

hosh 6y ago

This could have been a commuter vehicle for someone who could not afford a car. I get that the business is disincentivized, but this is such a waste.

d6e 6y ago
Agreed, but unfortunately legal liabilities create huge wastes like this. It's why grocery stores go through extensive efforts to ensure you can't recover their thrown out good that has reached it's sell by date but is still good.
- OldHand2018 6y ago
  In the US, the Good Samaritan Food Donation Act of 1996 eliminates the liability of grocery stores from donating or allowing people to "glean" food that it no longer can sell. If you know of a store that is destroying this type of food, please let them know that they can donate it without worrying about getting sued.
  - jgwil2 6y ago
    Yep, generally if you find food on the shelf that has past its sell-by date, they will give it to you for free.
  - Mirioron 6y ago
    It does underline the point though. A law had to be made almost 25 years ago to prevent this with food and people are still worried. Doesn't paint a rosy picture for everything else.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      It depends on how things got there. If the law was made because of unjustified paranoia, to settle it, then you can't use the existence of that law as justification for the paranoia.
- jrace 6y ago
  What legal liability would prevent them from selling, or even just giving them away "as is - where is"?
- gambiting 6y ago
  I don't believe that's the case for one second. People sell second hand cars/motorcycles/bicycles/rollerblades all the time without worrying about liability afterwards, otherwise you'd be saying that US has no market for second hand equipment.
- bogomipz 6y ago
  What legal liability is this exactly? People buy used bikes, motorcycles and cars all the time. Both from companies as well as other individuals.
hadlock 6y ago
Commuter bikes use non-standard parts to limit theft among other reasons. These bikes aren't end-user repairable using off the shelf parts.
- mindslight 6y ago
  The quantity involved creates its own shelf.

toohotatopic 6y ago

If you own an e-bike you can reason that you don't need a car. You still need a car once in a while. That's the time to call an Uber. You may even ride an Uber every day, but you don't buy a car because you want to start riding your bike tomorrow because it is good for your health.

Jugurtha 6y ago

I was walking in our electronics department's hallway when I stopped and walked a few steps back. My peripheral vision picked up a pile of yummy: a load of lab gear in an office. I went in and asked about it. The person said they were to be discarded. I asked if I could take some. They said they were to be sold by the kilogram to a company. I asked if I could buy a few kilograms of oscilloscopes, multimetres, stabilized power sources, etc. They said no. Regulations, auctions, etc. Here I was, a broke electronics student, trying to procure electronics equipment, in an electronics department, with lunch money I was willing to part with, but unable to do so because someone needed to melt that thing down and make a horse shoe or some fork.

aspenmayer 6y ago
Somebody already bought the picking rights. I would have gone over the head of the person you asked, or call in a favor with someone at the same level of hierarchy. Ask them if you can have some of the stuff. If they say yes, tell the first person x said it's fine, and just take what you are allowed to take. Their red tape is only your problem if you can't self-help. It's not your job to enforce their agreements with third parties who aren't you. It's also not your job to inform them of existing agreements with third parties which you are privy to.
- Jugurtha 6y ago
  Oh, the things I would have done in that situation if it took place somewhere where you don't get disappeared for a Facebook post, friend. I'll leave it at that. The underlying context is that I was practically a persona non grata. Teachers would happily leave the class to me during labs but hated the fact I barely attended. I'm talking not even grading your exam sheet, or putting an arbitrary grade, and not displaying it until the recourse deadline has passed because "screw you" and I'm talking putting "0" on all your grades because you missed one exam. Nobody will take the side of a student who'll be there for a limited time against a colleague they've worked with for 20+ years. Even if the behavior is unjust, the rationale for them is that you'll live and learn and forget about it and leave, but they're staying and have to work with the other person. Sure, the obvious step is to go manoeuver or call out these practices, invovle lawyers, and the media, and what not. Which brings me to my first paragraph. What is obvious and possible somewhere isn't somewhere else, or is but the stakes are too high. If I wanted to manoeuver in a cesspool, I would have become a politician. If I wanted to go to war, I would have become a martyr. The former is frowned upon, the latter is admired in other people from a distance.

dundarious 6y ago

My naive thought is that these could easily be auctioned off with no claim they are fit for purpose. Recycling should be a last resort.

TrinaryWorksToo 6y ago
That's literally why we have as-is warranties.
viscanti 6y ago
It appears these bikes were designed to not be user serviceable. Bespoke tools are needed to do any maintenance and there aren't off the shelf parts for anyone who would need anything replaced. This seems very different than selling a used car where the new owner would still have some expectation of being able to service and repair it. Presumably they also have bespoke chargers and not enough to sell with every bike so some people would be buying e-bikes that can't ever be charged. That's not an argument for not making them available. But it does substantially decrease the value. It's possible it pushes the value below what they'd get from recycling. If that's the case, it's easy to see why they'd recycle them instead of spending more time/money to try to sell a non-servicable and non-chargeable used bike.
- linuxftw 6y ago
  They could sell the bikes dirt cheap, and make up the losses selling the proprietary tools.
  - viscanti 6y ago
    If the dirt cheap cost is substantially lower than the recycle price, why would they do that?
    - adrianN 6y ago
      To save some tons of CO2.

skwb 6y ago

Remember the old mantra of reduce > reuse > recycle? Environmental consumerism is supposed to be primarily focused on reducing when you can. If you cannot reduce consumption, then try to reuse as much as possible. And if you've exhausted reduce or reuse, then you try to recycle.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
lopmotr 6y ago
Everything can be reduced and reused if you're willing to spend enough money. But obviously you have to recycle if the other options are too expensive. Environmentalists seem to forget that spending money is itself a waste - a waste of human effort and natural resources even if it saves something tangible like a wheel or an electric motor.

Arainach 6y ago

>On one hand, how would it benefit their/Lime's business to have loads of people owning electric scooters and bikes I see these as different use cases. I own an eBike which I use for commuting. I also use Lime bikes (before they shut down) to get around the city. The key difference is storage. If I take MY bike, I have to very securely lock it up, carry a heavy lock and chain around, and worry about whether my destination has storage. As such, it only gets me between work, home, and occasionally the store. On the other hand, I use Lime bikes to get across the city anywhere. If I'm going to a brewery or a concert or whatever, I just get close to my destination, find an out of the way, and get off the bike. It's significantly easier.

nicbou 6y ago
Sometimes you need a one-way mode of transportation. They are great for that.