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Why remote work is hard and how it can be fixed

220 points by BerislavLopac 6y ago

buboard 6y ago
Reads like something Krugman could have written
- war1025 6y ago
  Is that good or bad?
  - chrischattin 6y ago
    "By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's." -Paul Krugman
    - war1025 6y ago
      The circles I follow like to rag on him as someone whose opinion keeps being given weight despite being wrong on basically every prediction he's ever made. Was just curious if that's what the commentor was implying or not.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - jhpriestley 6y ago
        > basically every prediction https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/18/opinion/things-to-come.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/18/opinion/things-to-come.ht... https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/running-out-of-bubbles.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/running-out-of-bu... https://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/29/opinion/29krugman.html https://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/29/opinion/29krugman.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/opinion/30krugman.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/opinion/30krugman.html
        castort 6y ago
        Wow, that 2005 column is prescient. I’d never read it before, and I’m a fan of Krugman.
      - Ma8ee 6y ago
        He has a very good track record when he talks economics, not always as spot on outside that, but not worse than other pundits. He’s quite condescending towards conservatives, so if that is the circles you follow I very much understand that is the impression you have been given. Considering that he has written a couple of thousand columns, it would be surprising if there weren’t a few where he got something wrong. I didn’t much more than check the headlines of the links below, but what was wrong about warning about a housing bubble in 2005 or saying that austerity is a greater danger to the economy in 2009 than deficits?
        war1025 6y ago
        I have little opinion of him one way or another. The original comment I replied to just said "Sounds like it could have been written by Krugman" The only thing I am interested in is a better understanding of what exactly was meant by that.
gopalv 6y ago
The post-covid "remote work" will be very different from the present day and past WFH. Right now, WFH is a struggle not because of the "FH" part, but because of "cabin fever" effect of being around everyone all the time, the complexities of avoiding the disease - things which were done by professionals is back to self-run, everything from cleaning to child care. In the past, I've WFH'd only when I have had a good reason to justify that. This was in the pre-Marissa era @ Yahoo and I was probably one of those people, if you counted VPN time. However, the good reasons which required to be remote are often the opposite of productive - my reason was that my dad was on suicide watch for 4 months. But with EVERYONE being WFH without choice has changed several people who have held similar opinions in the past about remote work - the managers might still consider the "from home" to be bad, but they might have realized that they can maintain an effective organization, without constantly talking to people in person. The next wave of this "remote work" revolution will probably not be people working from home, but people choosing to work in an area close enough to home, but far away enough to avoid the internal pressures of pending chores. Before Covid, my favourite "remote work" location was the SF public library in Potrero & the Burlingame one which even has private offices. Wasn't exactly WFH, but it was remote & great.
- elric 6y ago
  Adding to that: a lot of people had to start WFH with little or no preparation. For many of us techy types that's no problem, we already have desks and monitors and keyboards coming out of our ears. But for a lot of people, none of that is a given at all. There's a huge difference between reading your emails on your laptop at the breakfast table in the morning, and working from home 8 hours a day for months. Especially if you live in a tiny flat and have to share it with other people. If I were to apply for a 100% remote job, I'd make different accomodation choices than when getting a 100% on site job.
  - dbcurtis 6y ago
    Yes, I think the lack of prep problem is underrated. As a freelancer, I almost don't notice lock-down other than the cabin fever effects, because my home office is well-established. But, wow, that would have been different if I had been put in the position of building up that office infrastructure over-night, as things were shutting down. And certainly the place-without-interruptions can be a challenge. I have lived in a home with a toddler and a cat -- well, that isn't exactly conducive to getting into "coding flow". Pre-lockdown, I had a chat with a startup CEO who likes to work from his home office when he needs a block of deep-work time. It is a big source of irritation with his wife that "door closed means I am unavailable" -- so yeah, just a place to hide is nice once in a while.
paulryanrogers 6y ago
Article upholds author of "4 Hour Work Week" as an example of an ultra-remote worker. Someone who made it rich selling supplements of questionable benefit and with much self promotion may not be the best anecdote for remote workers.
- eee_honda 6y ago
  > selling supplements of questionable benefit Any sources? i tried to google but i'm only finding stuff about the supplements he takes, nothing about history of selling them himself.
  - sky_rw 6y ago
    I believe this was heavily referenced in his original 4-hour work week book, where he describes his early businesses.
  - majikandy 6y ago
    Read the book if you haven’t, it’s all in there. You’ll get much more benefit than finding out about the supplements I suspect. I recall something about him introducing himself to people as a drug dealer when asked what he did for a living.
  - lovegoblin 6y ago
    Like the others have said, it's not a secret: it's in his book. He didn't even own the supplement company or anything; he was just a dropshipper.
- tmaly 6y ago
  I think the aspect he offers to someone that wants to stay at the job but do some remotely is still very applicable to today's WFH situation. The Parkinson's law and 80/20 rule are great. I think more could be written about that idea of a FAQ that is maintained by customer service. This could be more broadly applicable to any documentation or how to material both internal and external to a company. Knowledge management is not an easy task.
staysaasy 6y ago
One of the most interesting aspects of the remote work discussion is just how emotional a topic it is for many people – on both sides. I've seen die-hards in both the pro-office and pro-remote camps, seemingly without a clear pattern. This is exacerbated by the fact that people often want to convert others to their side. If you're pro-remote, going all-remote creates an even playing field. If you're pro-office, having everyone in the office creates the collaborative environment that you prefer. Managing these opposing viewpoints in a productive way will be an interesting leadership challenge for many teams.
- wtetzner 6y ago
  I wonder if teams will end up being organized based on preferred work location (in office vs WFH) in the future.
  - staysaasy 6y ago
    That's an interesting idea that I haven't heard discussed yet. I think it makes a lot of sense, as the remote vs in-office divide is more pronounced when the experience isn't uniform.
- whyhow 6y ago
  I've seen this too. Personally I think both environments are really valuable. I really prefer meeting folks in person, but my home is nicer for hard problems that require concentration. I just want to split my time evenly between the two.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    >I really prefer meeting folks in person I mostly don't do that in an office but I do for traveling/events which are pretty much off the table for an indefinite time. I meet far more of my colleagues at events than I do at my company offices. That's the difficult thing for me right now.
- jinglebells 6y ago
  If you're "Pro-office" you're dictatorial. This is a problem. The cat is out of the bag. I haven't worked in an office in nearly a decade, anyone saying "you have to be in the office" will be drawing from a dwindling pool of supplies.
rb808 6y ago
The guys on our team who have been working together in the office for a while are continuing to work together online. No Problem. The two new guys we hired get little help and they're drowning I suspect. Its just too difficult to help them. If anyone has success with onboarding new people remotely I'm interested in hearing tips.
- janesvilleseo 6y ago
  I have been working remotely for a decade. The best way to onboard remote workers is to have regular one on ones. Weekly is easiest. Just having an open line of communication does wonders. Often people are afraid to ask for help but once they get to know people those fears dissolve.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    When I was last onboarded--well, quite some time ago--one thing my manager did that was useful was to connect me with a number of different people in the company and had me set up 1:1s with them both as a get-to-know-them thing and to start working together on various areas of interest. Many, maybe most, of them weren't in the office as I was anyway.
- jcheng 6y ago
  My current thinking is to schedule daily 1:1s at first. As they get their feet under them, scale it back to a few times a week, then once a week. If the onus is on the new team member to ask for help when they need it, they'll have to figure out what difficulty and quantity of questions are considered appropriate. That's pretty stressful to try to figure out remotely. Much easier for them to have a senior person looking them in the face and asking "How'd it go yesterday? What questions can I answer for you this morning?"
  - ljp_206 6y ago
    Wow, you've hit the nail on the head about what I need as I continue onboarding on to a new team at work. I was shuffled around right when our state shut down. Indeed, figuring out how and when to ask what questions has been exceedingly difficult. It's super hard to ask for time with people I haven't even met properly.
thrownaway954 6y ago
this must be the 3rd fear mongering "remote work" article that has hit the front page today... employers must really be missing us :)
- menckenjr 6y ago
  Or someone has a bunch of money invested in commercial REITs and is looking at losing it...
  - Polylactic_acid 6y ago
    I imagine it must be terrifying to be a commercial property owner while people are on the verge of working out they don't need your service.
iwfheveryday123 6y ago
Most of those I know that are hardcore office are: * in a middle management position * have a home setting that doesn't work for WFH (kids, space, personality, etc) * have never worked from home over an extended period of time but are still opinionated WFH today vs. pre-coronavirus is drastically different. Grocery shopping has changed, working out options have changed, socializing. I've noticed that it's been wonderful having my wife here. We can get delivery or curbside pick up for groceries. We can focus, eat healthy and take meaningful breaks. Note: lots of anti-WFH articles recently. Commercial real-estate backed articles? ;)
errantmind 6y ago
A simple answer is: working from home requires the ability to hold yourself accountable for your productivity to a much greater extent than if you were in an office. Yes, working at home is a different setting, with different distractions, but, based on my experience, there are a lot of extra motivators present in an office, like peer pressure, justifying the commute, being held accountable for the perception of working, contribution recognition, easy socializing, etc. For better or worse, none of those are as impactful when working from home and the worker is forced to fuel their productivity themself. I left my job a year ago to work on my own projects full-time and it took several months for me to find ways to really motivate myself to be consistently productive
- chapium 6y ago
  It also requires you to hold others accountable to a much greater extent. Part of what drove me away from remote work was the additional effort required to get people to respond to anything. When you were remote, you were invisible.
  - jefflombardjr 6y ago
    Really? I find the opposite is true, if you aren't pushing commits that speaks pretty loudly.
    - chapium 6y ago
      It sounds like you are pushing commits and not shuffling tickets around a system of black holes.
  - ilaksh 6y ago
    I have also found that many people have problems with async/written communication or even just paying attention to email or tasks. It is related to their general competence, communication skills and habits, and level of interest. It is a big problem. For me if they can't handle git comments or slack then they can usually manage to show up for a phone call. And in my projects that is generally not the best, but it is good enough to be able to keep projects moving forward. If it was a programmer rather than manager or client who did not reply to chat/email or handle git properly, in my opinion there is no excuse and that is a fireable offense. I mean, it should be fireable for managers and clients too but sometimes keeping the gig seems worth it.
marinman 6y ago
I thought this was a pretty fair article that rightly addressed some of the major structural issues with remote work as it currently is set up. I've worked remotely for ~5 years and absolutely love it but think there need to be much larger corporate culture changes needed, along with technologies, to make it a sustainable trend for 30%+ of a modern workforce. I do also wonder if there might be some wrong lessons taken from this time. This isn't just "working from home" it's "working from home during a global health crisis." Schools are closed, people we know are dying, lockdowns, there's fear and uncertainty to a degree I hadn't before seen in my adult life ... so yeah, it's going to have an impact on our workflows. Like any change, it's always going to be hardest for large orgs who have to change vs those who have it built-in from the beginning.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
buboard 6y ago
I 'm surveying people from zoom calls to figure out the trend. So far, here in europe, it seems that people who live in small apartments (e.g. Berlin) prefer to go back to the office. People who have larger houses, or access to outdoors have stayed home even if they could go to the office. If enough people stay back home after covid, remote work will be a self-accelerating trend: if enough people are not at the office , the office is boring and empty, and home becomes more fun.
- ghaff 6y ago
  >remote work will be a self-accelerating trend I've been (unofficially) mostly remote--to greater or lesser degrees depending on what I'm working on--for quite a few years now. And you make a good point. I have a relatively convenient local office. But most of the people I work with regularly aren't in that office, mostly work from home themselves, are on calls all day, or are traveling. I can go into the office and there's a good chance I basically won't see anyone I know. (The company has also grown a lot.) If I could go in a day or two a week and bump into a lot of people I know/maybe have lunch with them/etc. I'd be perfectly happy to go in a day or two a week. But the reality is that I'd go in, grab a random desk, work and head back home. I can do that in my home office without a 1 hour roundtrip commute. And layer on top of that, going into the office is going to be a weird and awkward situation for an extended period of time. I certainly don't expect to be in an office even for a meeting for the rest of this year and very possibly an extended period of time beyond that.
paulcole 6y ago
Why is it hard? Because it's a huge life transition for most people and it's happening during one of the most stressful times in history.
codegeek 6y ago
One thing that a lot of people miss in the whole "Work from Home" discussion is the fact that not everyone has the ability, talent, skills and experience to be able to work from home. It is the hard truth and lot of us don't want to admit that. It is extremely hard to work from home and stay accountable, productive and not to mention focussed. It is just very hard. Even for senior/experienced folks. It is not a one size fits all solution. If you are junior who needs a lot of guidance and help on the job, WFH is even worse.
- jeffrallen 6y ago
  I'm terrible at it! For years, I've organised a day a week to work outside the office and outside the home. I know I need a planned task saved for that day, and I need physical separation. Covid is a giant pain in the ass and I hate it because it makes that "not in office" time no longer special and focused/effective. It's just one huge slog of Slack, Zoom and mail hell.
  - jefflombardjr 6y ago
    You know you can disable notifications right? That gives you the same peace of mind. If it's someone important you just tell them hey, I'm in the middle of x, I'll get back to you at y time. Most bosses respect healthy boundaries, and if they don't that's usually a red flag. Not everything needs to be responded to right away, my mind was blown when I first saw an eisenhower matrix. I encourage you to check out this! https://www.google.com/search?q=eisenhower+matrix https://www.google.com/search?q=eisenhower+matrix
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Way too many people enable way too many notifications on all sorts of platforms, which is admittedly the default. (And way too many people expect people to always be instantly available when they send a message/chat/email/phone call.) I'm actually pretty reachable during the workday. But maybe because I worked for the first part of my career in a world where I wasn't reachable if I wasn't sitting at my desk, I'm not terribly sympathetic to those who feel they need to reach me instantly.
ravijain 6y ago
Remote work is changing the world with its impact and especially due to Covid-19 people are forced to work from home. Some say they have got higher productivity and some say they have got the lowest! What are your thoughts? Will you prefer working from home or let your team work from home?
- markus_zhang 6y ago
  Whichever that gives me the most personal space.
- julian_t 6y ago
  This depends on so many factors: home environment, office environment, commuting, personal preferences... My personal preference is to work from home, even though I have a really nice office environment. It's quieter, and I don't have to commute, but that's just me. I have colleagues who can't wait to get back into the office. What I hope is that managers get more flexible, now that they've seen that remote working is a realistic option.
jefflombardjr 6y ago
There's a lot of discussion in this thread, but I think it all comes down to the fact that we are all individuals with individual preferences. What is comfortable for you, may not be for your coworker. Great companies try to reconcile those differences with proper communications channels in place, bad companies try to exert control over something they don't understand.
- Maxion 6y ago
  Many also try to assert control over things they fear.
TrackerFF 6y ago
I love to have the ability to work from home, but I'm gonna be honest with myself - I love the social aspect of work. Maybe it's easier when you have great colleagues, but it's been a very nice breath of fresh air to come back to the office, for that reason alone. (And unfortunately, for many people, work is pretty much the only place where they get to socialize. I've seen this with older workers. After they retire, they still pop by on a regular basis, just to talk and see how things are going)
tristor 6y ago
I've been working remotely and from home for over five years now. I think the hardest thing for me about working remotely is dealing with differences in the timezones of my colleagues and the demands that puts on me and balancing that with non-work life. I think if you can get your work / life balance figured out and enforce decent hours, working remotely can be a massively positive thing for your life.
Ericson2314 6y ago
The article reminded me how little I understand (non-secreterial) white collar work.
cosmotic 6y ago
I love the cozy warm fuzzies that 'face-to-face bonding' bring up. I'm sure those same managers pushing for that bonding would be just as sensitive and show just as much concern for the team when they 'reorganize' and layoff part of the team.
golover721 6y ago
So there is no doubt that the current WFH situation has decreased productivity in general at the large tech giant I work at. It is definitely not across the board, some teams have adapted to it better than others. Some teams are having issues holding team members accountable in this remote based environment. On these teams it is easy for some team members to not pull their weight and severely impact productivity. I am sure a lot of it is just dealing with covid in general. This is not your average WFH situation. Also it will take time to adjust and I do believe that how projects and teams are managed has to change significantly based on all remote workers.

220 points by BerislavLopac 6y ago

buboard 6y ago

Reads like something Krugman could have written

war1025 6y ago
Is that good or bad?
- chrischattin 6y ago
  "By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's." -Paul Krugman
  - war1025 6y ago
    The circles I follow like to rag on him as someone whose opinion keeps being given weight despite being wrong on basically every prediction he's ever made. Was just curious if that's what the commentor was implying or not.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - jhpriestley 6y ago
      > basically every prediction https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/18/opinion/things-to-come.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/18/opinion/things-to-come.ht... https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/running-out-of-bubbles.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/running-out-of-bu... https://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/29/opinion/29krugman.html https://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/29/opinion/29krugman.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/opinion/30krugman.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/opinion/30krugman.html
      - castort 6y ago
        Wow, that 2005 column is prescient. I’d never read it before, and I’m a fan of Krugman.
    - Ma8ee 6y ago
      He has a very good track record when he talks economics, not always as spot on outside that, but not worse than other pundits. He’s quite condescending towards conservatives, so if that is the circles you follow I very much understand that is the impression you have been given. Considering that he has written a couple of thousand columns, it would be surprising if there weren’t a few where he got something wrong. I didn’t much more than check the headlines of the links below, but what was wrong about warning about a housing bubble in 2005 or saying that austerity is a greater danger to the economy in 2009 than deficits?
      - war1025 6y ago
        I have little opinion of him one way or another. The original comment I replied to just said "Sounds like it could have been written by Krugman" The only thing I am interested in is a better understanding of what exactly was meant by that.

gopalv 6y ago

The post-covid "remote work" will be very different from the present day and past WFH. Right now, WFH is a struggle not because of the "FH" part, but because of "cabin fever" effect of being around everyone all the time, the complexities of avoiding the disease - things which were done by professionals is back to self-run, everything from cleaning to child care. In the past, I've WFH'd only when I have had a good reason to justify that. This was in the pre-Marissa era @ Yahoo and I was probably one of those people, if you counted VPN time. However, the good reasons which required to be remote are often the opposite of productive - my reason was that my dad was on suicide watch for 4 months. But with EVERYONE being WFH without choice has changed several people who have held similar opinions in the past about remote work - the managers might still consider the "from home" to be bad, but they might have realized that they can maintain an effective organization, without constantly talking to people in person. The next wave of this "remote work" revolution will probably not be people working from home, but people choosing to work in an area close enough to home, but far away enough to avoid the internal pressures of pending chores. Before Covid, my favourite "remote work" location was the SF public library in Potrero & the Burlingame one which even has private offices. Wasn't exactly WFH, but it was remote & great.

elric 6y ago
Adding to that: a lot of people had to start WFH with little or no preparation. For many of us techy types that's no problem, we already have desks and monitors and keyboards coming out of our ears. But for a lot of people, none of that is a given at all. There's a huge difference between reading your emails on your laptop at the breakfast table in the morning, and working from home 8 hours a day for months. Especially if you live in a tiny flat and have to share it with other people. If I were to apply for a 100% remote job, I'd make different accomodation choices than when getting a 100% on site job.
- dbcurtis 6y ago
  Yes, I think the lack of prep problem is underrated. As a freelancer, I almost don't notice lock-down other than the cabin fever effects, because my home office is well-established. But, wow, that would have been different if I had been put in the position of building up that office infrastructure over-night, as things were shutting down. And certainly the place-without-interruptions can be a challenge. I have lived in a home with a toddler and a cat -- well, that isn't exactly conducive to getting into "coding flow". Pre-lockdown, I had a chat with a startup CEO who likes to work from his home office when he needs a block of deep-work time. It is a big source of irritation with his wife that "door closed means I am unavailable" -- so yeah, just a place to hide is nice once in a while.

paulryanrogers 6y ago

Article upholds author of "4 Hour Work Week" as an example of an ultra-remote worker. Someone who made it rich selling supplements of questionable benefit and with much self promotion may not be the best anecdote for remote workers.

eee_honda 6y ago
> selling supplements of questionable benefit Any sources? i tried to google but i'm only finding stuff about the supplements he takes, nothing about history of selling them himself.
- sky_rw 6y ago
  I believe this was heavily referenced in his original 4-hour work week book, where he describes his early businesses.
- majikandy 6y ago
  Read the book if you haven’t, it’s all in there. You’ll get much more benefit than finding out about the supplements I suspect. I recall something about him introducing himself to people as a drug dealer when asked what he did for a living.
- lovegoblin 6y ago
  Like the others have said, it's not a secret: it's in his book. He didn't even own the supplement company or anything; he was just a dropshipper.
tmaly 6y ago
I think the aspect he offers to someone that wants to stay at the job but do some remotely is still very applicable to today's WFH situation. The Parkinson's law and 80/20 rule are great. I think more could be written about that idea of a FAQ that is maintained by customer service. This could be more broadly applicable to any documentation or how to material both internal and external to a company. Knowledge management is not an easy task.

staysaasy 6y ago

One of the most interesting aspects of the remote work discussion is just how emotional a topic it is for many people – on both sides. I've seen die-hards in both the pro-office and pro-remote camps, seemingly without a clear pattern. This is exacerbated by the fact that people often want to convert others to their side. If you're pro-remote, going all-remote creates an even playing field. If you're pro-office, having everyone in the office creates the collaborative environment that you prefer. Managing these opposing viewpoints in a productive way will be an interesting leadership challenge for many teams.

wtetzner 6y ago
I wonder if teams will end up being organized based on preferred work location (in office vs WFH) in the future.
- staysaasy 6y ago
  That's an interesting idea that I haven't heard discussed yet. I think it makes a lot of sense, as the remote vs in-office divide is more pronounced when the experience isn't uniform.
whyhow 6y ago
I've seen this too. Personally I think both environments are really valuable. I really prefer meeting folks in person, but my home is nicer for hard problems that require concentration. I just want to split my time evenly between the two.
- ghaff 6y ago
  >I really prefer meeting folks in person I mostly don't do that in an office but I do for traveling/events which are pretty much off the table for an indefinite time. I meet far more of my colleagues at events than I do at my company offices. That's the difficult thing for me right now.
jinglebells 6y ago
If you're "Pro-office" you're dictatorial. This is a problem. The cat is out of the bag. I haven't worked in an office in nearly a decade, anyone saying "you have to be in the office" will be drawing from a dwindling pool of supplies.

rb808 6y ago

The guys on our team who have been working together in the office for a while are continuing to work together online. No Problem. The two new guys we hired get little help and they're drowning I suspect. Its just too difficult to help them. If anyone has success with onboarding new people remotely I'm interested in hearing tips.

janesvilleseo 6y ago
I have been working remotely for a decade. The best way to onboard remote workers is to have regular one on ones. Weekly is easiest. Just having an open line of communication does wonders. Often people are afraid to ask for help but once they get to know people those fears dissolve.
- ghaff 6y ago
  When I was last onboarded--well, quite some time ago--one thing my manager did that was useful was to connect me with a number of different people in the company and had me set up 1:1s with them both as a get-to-know-them thing and to start working together on various areas of interest. Many, maybe most, of them weren't in the office as I was anyway.
jcheng 6y ago
My current thinking is to schedule daily 1:1s at first. As they get their feet under them, scale it back to a few times a week, then once a week. If the onus is on the new team member to ask for help when they need it, they'll have to figure out what difficulty and quantity of questions are considered appropriate. That's pretty stressful to try to figure out remotely. Much easier for them to have a senior person looking them in the face and asking "How'd it go yesterday? What questions can I answer for you this morning?"
- ljp_206 6y ago
  Wow, you've hit the nail on the head about what I need as I continue onboarding on to a new team at work. I was shuffled around right when our state shut down. Indeed, figuring out how and when to ask what questions has been exceedingly difficult. It's super hard to ask for time with people I haven't even met properly.

thrownaway954 6y ago

this must be the 3rd fear mongering "remote work" article that has hit the front page today... employers must really be missing us :)

menckenjr 6y ago
Or someone has a bunch of money invested in commercial REITs and is looking at losing it...
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  I imagine it must be terrifying to be a commercial property owner while people are on the verge of working out they don't need your service.

iwfheveryday123 6y ago

Most of those I know that are hardcore office are: * in a middle management position * have a home setting that doesn't work for WFH (kids, space, personality, etc) * have never worked from home over an extended period of time but are still opinionated WFH today vs. pre-coronavirus is drastically different. Grocery shopping has changed, working out options have changed, socializing. I've noticed that it's been wonderful having my wife here. We can get delivery or curbside pick up for groceries. We can focus, eat healthy and take meaningful breaks. Note: lots of anti-WFH articles recently. Commercial real-estate backed articles? ;)

errantmind 6y ago

A simple answer is: working from home requires the ability to hold yourself accountable for your productivity to a much greater extent than if you were in an office. Yes, working at home is a different setting, with different distractions, but, based on my experience, there are a lot of extra motivators present in an office, like peer pressure, justifying the commute, being held accountable for the perception of working, contribution recognition, easy socializing, etc. For better or worse, none of those are as impactful when working from home and the worker is forced to fuel their productivity themself. I left my job a year ago to work on my own projects full-time and it took several months for me to find ways to really motivate myself to be consistently productive

chapium 6y ago
It also requires you to hold others accountable to a much greater extent. Part of what drove me away from remote work was the additional effort required to get people to respond to anything. When you were remote, you were invisible.
- jefflombardjr 6y ago
  Really? I find the opposite is true, if you aren't pushing commits that speaks pretty loudly.
  - chapium 6y ago
    It sounds like you are pushing commits and not shuffling tickets around a system of black holes.
- ilaksh 6y ago
  I have also found that many people have problems with async/written communication or even just paying attention to email or tasks. It is related to their general competence, communication skills and habits, and level of interest. It is a big problem. For me if they can't handle git comments or slack then they can usually manage to show up for a phone call. And in my projects that is generally not the best, but it is good enough to be able to keep projects moving forward. If it was a programmer rather than manager or client who did not reply to chat/email or handle git properly, in my opinion there is no excuse and that is a fireable offense. I mean, it should be fireable for managers and clients too but sometimes keeping the gig seems worth it.

marinman 6y ago

I thought this was a pretty fair article that rightly addressed some of the major structural issues with remote work as it currently is set up. I've worked remotely for ~5 years and absolutely love it but think there need to be much larger corporate culture changes needed, along with technologies, to make it a sustainable trend for 30%+ of a modern workforce. I do also wonder if there might be some wrong lessons taken from this time. This isn't just "working from home" it's "working from home during a global health crisis." Schools are closed, people we know are dying, lockdowns, there's fear and uncertainty to a degree I hadn't before seen in my adult life ... so yeah, it's going to have an impact on our workflows. Like any change, it's always going to be hardest for large orgs who have to change vs those who have it built-in from the beginning.

deleted 6y ago
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buboard 6y ago

I 'm surveying people from zoom calls to figure out the trend. So far, here in europe, it seems that people who live in small apartments (e.g. Berlin) prefer to go back to the office. People who have larger houses, or access to outdoors have stayed home even if they could go to the office. If enough people stay back home after covid, remote work will be a self-accelerating trend: if enough people are not at the office , the office is boring and empty, and home becomes more fun.

ghaff 6y ago
>remote work will be a self-accelerating trend I've been (unofficially) mostly remote--to greater or lesser degrees depending on what I'm working on--for quite a few years now. And you make a good point. I have a relatively convenient local office. But most of the people I work with regularly aren't in that office, mostly work from home themselves, are on calls all day, or are traveling. I can go into the office and there's a good chance I basically won't see anyone I know. (The company has also grown a lot.) If I could go in a day or two a week and bump into a lot of people I know/maybe have lunch with them/etc. I'd be perfectly happy to go in a day or two a week. But the reality is that I'd go in, grab a random desk, work and head back home. I can do that in my home office without a 1 hour roundtrip commute. And layer on top of that, going into the office is going to be a weird and awkward situation for an extended period of time. I certainly don't expect to be in an office even for a meeting for the rest of this year and very possibly an extended period of time beyond that.

paulcole 6y ago

Why is it hard? Because it's a huge life transition for most people and it's happening during one of the most stressful times in history.

codegeek 6y ago

One thing that a lot of people miss in the whole "Work from Home" discussion is the fact that not everyone has the ability, talent, skills and experience to be able to work from home. It is the hard truth and lot of us don't want to admit that. It is extremely hard to work from home and stay accountable, productive and not to mention focussed. It is just very hard. Even for senior/experienced folks. It is not a one size fits all solution. If you are junior who needs a lot of guidance and help on the job, WFH is even worse.

jeffrallen 6y ago
I'm terrible at it! For years, I've organised a day a week to work outside the office and outside the home. I know I need a planned task saved for that day, and I need physical separation. Covid is a giant pain in the ass and I hate it because it makes that "not in office" time no longer special and focused/effective. It's just one huge slog of Slack, Zoom and mail hell.
- jefflombardjr 6y ago
  You know you can disable notifications right? That gives you the same peace of mind. If it's someone important you just tell them hey, I'm in the middle of x, I'll get back to you at y time. Most bosses respect healthy boundaries, and if they don't that's usually a red flag. Not everything needs to be responded to right away, my mind was blown when I first saw an eisenhower matrix. I encourage you to check out this! https://www.google.com/search?q=eisenhower+matrix https://www.google.com/search?q=eisenhower+matrix
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Way too many people enable way too many notifications on all sorts of platforms, which is admittedly the default. (And way too many people expect people to always be instantly available when they send a message/chat/email/phone call.) I'm actually pretty reachable during the workday. But maybe because I worked for the first part of my career in a world where I wasn't reachable if I wasn't sitting at my desk, I'm not terribly sympathetic to those who feel they need to reach me instantly.

ravijain 6y ago

Remote work is changing the world with its impact and especially due to Covid-19 people are forced to work from home. Some say they have got higher productivity and some say they have got the lowest! What are your thoughts? Will you prefer working from home or let your team work from home?

markus_zhang 6y ago
Whichever that gives me the most personal space.
julian_t 6y ago
This depends on so many factors: home environment, office environment, commuting, personal preferences... My personal preference is to work from home, even though I have a really nice office environment. It's quieter, and I don't have to commute, but that's just me. I have colleagues who can't wait to get back into the office. What I hope is that managers get more flexible, now that they've seen that remote working is a realistic option.

jefflombardjr 6y ago

There's a lot of discussion in this thread, but I think it all comes down to the fact that we are all individuals with individual preferences. What is comfortable for you, may not be for your coworker. Great companies try to reconcile those differences with proper communications channels in place, bad companies try to exert control over something they don't understand.

Maxion 6y ago
Many also try to assert control over things they fear.

TrackerFF 6y ago

I love to have the ability to work from home, but I'm gonna be honest with myself - I love the social aspect of work. Maybe it's easier when you have great colleagues, but it's been a very nice breath of fresh air to come back to the office, for that reason alone. (And unfortunately, for many people, work is pretty much the only place where they get to socialize. I've seen this with older workers. After they retire, they still pop by on a regular basis, just to talk and see how things are going)

tristor 6y ago

I've been working remotely and from home for over five years now. I think the hardest thing for me about working remotely is dealing with differences in the timezones of my colleagues and the demands that puts on me and balancing that with non-work life. I think if you can get your work / life balance figured out and enforce decent hours, working remotely can be a massively positive thing for your life.

Ericson2314 6y ago

The article reminded me how little I understand (non-secreterial) white collar work.

cosmotic 6y ago

I love the cozy warm fuzzies that 'face-to-face bonding' bring up. I'm sure those same managers pushing for that bonding would be just as sensitive and show just as much concern for the team when they 'reorganize' and layoff part of the team.

golover721 6y ago

So there is no doubt that the current WFH situation has decreased productivity in general at the large tech giant I work at. It is definitely not across the board, some teams have adapted to it better than others. Some teams are having issues holding team members accountable in this remote based environment. On these teams it is easy for some team members to not pull their weight and severely impact productivity. I am sure a lot of it is just dealing with covid in general. This is not your average WFH situation. Also it will take time to adjust and I do believe that how projects and teams are managed has to change significantly based on all remote workers.