8 ms·

I guess the list of things keeping me off catalina (and, by extension, new Mac hardware) just got one item longer. I recently bought a new System76 laptop as a

by mokus 6y ago

I guess the list of things keeping me off catalina (and, by extension, new Mac hardware) just got one item longer. I recently bought a new System76 laptop as a stopgap, but it might end up becoming permanent. Kind of a sad end for 25+ years of Mac use.

rimliu 6y ago
I upgraded my 2015 MBP 13" to Catalina and happily continue to Mac stint since 2006.
- 72deluxe 6y ago
  What does df -h in the terminal say? It'll show the total of each partition (the normal, and the new read-only system partition) on their own line, thereby giving a false total. e.g. 1x 100GB disk, 50GB normal, 50GB system partition will show as capacity 100GB for both partitions which would mean a 200GB disk. Small things like this just make me completely lose faith in Catalina. EDIT: Other "fun" things I noticed within half an hour: a. Text search in PDF no longer works b. I can't create anything under / c. I have to use synthetic.conf to map paths from / to my real partition, but the parser of synthetic.conf is very particular to tabs/spaces unlike any other /etc/ file format d. Xcode wants to ask for my password to debug every single time I reboot and debug a C++ app. This is incredibly incredibly incredibly incredibly annoying. Safari is faster in general use. But that's so far the only good point. I'll keep it on a SSD for App Store submissions and keep my machine on an older decent version thanks
  - Marsymars 6y ago
    > a. Text search in PDF no longer works Oh is this macOS? I'd just assumed all the PDFs I've tried to search for the past while have been poorly formatted with the text as images, but that makes more sense. > I'll keep it on a SSD for App Store submissions and keep my machine on an older decent version thanks FYI it's pretty easy to integrate binary upload to App Store Connect on the CLI of your CI system.
    - 72deluxe 6y ago
      Thanks, do you have any pointers on binary upload via CLI etc.?
      - Marsymars 6y ago
        I've used Bitrise for iOS CI, in which case their integration just takes your Apple username/password as input in the build process. If you're scripting it yourself or testing locally you want to look at the xcrun altool command. (Which Apple doesn't document very well, but you can cobble together usage from Googling parameters/issues.) * https://app.bitrise.io/integrations/steps/deploy-to-itunesconnect-application-loader https://app.bitrise.io/integrations/steps/deploy-to-itunesco... * https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_macos_software_before_distribution/customizing_the_notarization_workflow#3087734 https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_m...
  - cschep 6y ago
    Checkout `DevToolsSecurity` on the command line. Could help with d. :)
    - 72deluxe 6y ago
      Thanks for this
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    > Text search in PDF no longer works In Safari or in general? I have only noticed the former. > I have to use synthetic.conf to map paths from / to my real partition, but the parser of synthetic.conf is very particular to tabs/spaces unlike any other /etc/ file format You may already know this, but man synthetic.conf will explain that you must use tabs. > Xcode wants to ask for my password to debug every single time I reboot and debug a C++ app. This is incredibly incredibly incredibly incredibly annoying. I can only offer you my condolences as I cruise by with SIP off.
    - brigandish 6y ago
      I keep a copy of Skim around for any time I want to do a proper search of a document.
lern_too_spel 6y ago
With issues like this and the 4000 series Ryzen mobile processors, top specced MacBook Pros are very noticably slower than $1k alternatives.
- fierarul 6y ago
  I see the above comment heavily downvoted but I'm specifically looking at 4000 series Ryzen laptops as my 1st move away from MacBook Pros. Such incredible CPUs really make the decision a bit more acceptable. The laptop I'm eyeing is near $1000.
  - shade 6y ago
    Out of curiosity - what are you looking at? I'm also starting to think about replacing my 2016 MBP and quite honestly, the current MacBook Air/MacBook Pro line doesn't really appeal to me. Lenovo has a couple of AMD-based ThinkPads that are looking pretty appealing, although they come in around $1500 with the configuration I'd want.
    - fierarul 6y ago
      Because I need a fast CPU for builds I'm looking at ASUS "gaming" laptops. The ASUS TUF Gaming A15 in particular is under $1000 before taxes here and has a good Ryzen. There are even better gaming laptops from ASUS that are thinner, but I think the A15 is a good 'workhorse'.
  - ChrisLTD 6y ago
    What are you eyeing?
    - fierarul 6y ago
      The ASUS TUF Gaming A15. It's a bit flashy but for home office it works.
  - caycep 6y ago
    the problem is those are second citizens for most vendors; there's some shady Intel lock in that prevents AMD from getting prime place in the lineup. So you'll get a great CPU but second rate screens, trackpads, etc.
rayiner 6y ago
My 16” is a huge disappointment. After swearing off Intel PCs after a disaster ours X1 Carbon, I switched back to a 2013 15” until this month. Figured after six months bugs would be ironed out. Wrong. I’m seeing two major glitches that have macrumors threads dozens of pages long: 1) with an external display connected, dGPU utilization shoots up to 20W at idle. (The rest of machine draws well under 10W at idle.) That wouldn’t be a big deal if the CPU and GPU didn’t share a tight 70W power budget. 2) when connected to an external monitor or dock—I’ve tried two different TB3 docks—the machine kernel panics regularly, usually waking up from sleep. I’m torn. I don’t want to return the machine because everything else is crap. At least the 16” works well as a laptop so long as you don’t plug anything into the ports. But Apple’s Q&A has seriously gone down the toilet ever since Steve Jobs died. Clearly him throwing staplers at people was the glue holding Apple together.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  when connected to an external monitor or dock—I’ve tried two different TB3 docks—the machine kernel panics regularly, usually waking up from sleep. I had a similar problem, and it turned out that the dock needed a driver. I don't think I've installed a driver for an external device since I switched to Macs years ago, so it never occurred to me that something like a dock would need a driver. But it turns out that once I installed the vendor's driver, the problems all went away. I'm not sure who's fault that is.
- Marsymars 6y ago
  I've had neverending problems with sleep mode on the Macs I've owned (2012 Mac Mini, now 2016 MacBook usually docked) - never really worked out the issue other than entirely disabling sleep when connected to power.
- thestephen 6y ago
  Since 10.15.4, my 16" started having kernel panics while waking up from sleep. Disabling Power Nap seems to mitigate this. While this is an awful stopgap solution, at least I can get back to work.
  - 6y ago
jmvoodoo 6y ago
I've heard bad things about system76 laptop build quality (desktop I think is top notch). Has this improved at all?
- freehunter 6y ago
  System76 uses rebranded Sager And Clevo laptops, they don’t actually build their own. So you can probably get some more (and more diverse) reviews by searching for the model of the actual manufacturer.
amelius 6y ago
Don't worry, Apple will change this. Big companies always make sure that customers just barely find their products acceptable. This was just a test to see if they could get away with it.
digitaltrees 6y ago
What are the other problems with Catalina for you? I ask because every time there is an OS X update someone posts this exact sentiment but then over a few months the issues get resolved. Please don’t interpret this as an attack; I am genuinely curious and want to see if Apple ends up fixing things. I my self have a maxed out 16 MacBook Pro and a for the first few weeks after the upgrade it was literally in usable because routine user input would result in the entire system locking up. I suspect it was actually this issue but, thankfully, the issue is now resolved.
- msie 6y ago
  I installed Catalina on my iMac several days ago and ImageCapture still has bugs! Although I can now select multiple photos to import from my iPhone 11, ImageCapture will not delete the photos after import. Previous to that, ImageCapture on Catalina would not import more than 10 photos without reporting an error. At least they fixed that bug.
  - knolan 6y ago
    I’m curious, is there a reason to use image capture when you can just AirDrop the images? Does Image Capture give you the HEIC format file or something?
    - brigandish 6y ago
      Surely it's faster?
      - knolan 6y ago
        It requires finding a (USB 2.0) cable, connecting both devices, approving trust, and then opening an App and selecting and waiting. AirDrop requires touch based selection and sharing on the iOS device and the transfer is very quick and if it’s your Mac the files go straight to your downloads folder. So it’s more streamlined overall with AirDrop. I had a colleague who used to do a similar dance with Image Capture. He had no idea he could AirDrop photos even though he airdropped files from Finder to others all the time. Personally I just have them all sync via iCloud Photo Library.
vmception 6y ago
One thing that always turned me off of Windows was that I would be in the control panel or command line within 5 minutes of using any system to fix a preference, and how with OSX it was refreshing not to have to do the equivalent in System Preferences or terminal. This is no longer true. It is a very similar and annoying experience for me. I use OSX, Windows and various versions of Linux. The browser is the real platform at this point and is the shared experience between all three.
- timw4mail 6y ago
  Hah, I don't remember the last time I set up any OS and didn't have to change settings on first boot. Maybe OS X 10.4 worked for me out of the box. The longer you use a computer, the more you expect certain behavior, and the less you get it out of the box.
wincent 6y ago
I was gnashing my teeth over exactly this last night — 26 years on a Mac for me: https://wincent.com/blog/grieving-for-apple https://wincent.com/blog/grieving-for-apple
mohdmasd 6y ago
There's also the issue of losing all your data if you enabled Secure-Boot (which is default) and the T2 chip failed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dwqxsDHkKQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dwqxsDHkKQ
x3n0ph3n3 6y ago
How does the keyboard and trackpad for that System76 laptop feel? I've been looking at those quite a bit and am seriously considering one to replace my 2014 MacBook Air.

by mokus 6y ago

rimliu 6y ago

I upgraded my 2015 MBP 13" to Catalina and happily continue to Mac stint since 2006.

72deluxe 6y ago
What does df -h in the terminal say? It'll show the total of each partition (the normal, and the new read-only system partition) on their own line, thereby giving a false total. e.g. 1x 100GB disk, 50GB normal, 50GB system partition will show as capacity 100GB for both partitions which would mean a 200GB disk. Small things like this just make me completely lose faith in Catalina. EDIT: Other "fun" things I noticed within half an hour: a. Text search in PDF no longer works b. I can't create anything under / c. I have to use synthetic.conf to map paths from / to my real partition, but the parser of synthetic.conf is very particular to tabs/spaces unlike any other /etc/ file format d. Xcode wants to ask for my password to debug every single time I reboot and debug a C++ app. This is incredibly incredibly incredibly incredibly annoying. Safari is faster in general use. But that's so far the only good point. I'll keep it on a SSD for App Store submissions and keep my machine on an older decent version thanks
- Marsymars 6y ago
  > a. Text search in PDF no longer works Oh is this macOS? I'd just assumed all the PDFs I've tried to search for the past while have been poorly formatted with the text as images, but that makes more sense. > I'll keep it on a SSD for App Store submissions and keep my machine on an older decent version thanks FYI it's pretty easy to integrate binary upload to App Store Connect on the CLI of your CI system.
  - 72deluxe 6y ago
    Thanks, do you have any pointers on binary upload via CLI etc.?
    - Marsymars 6y ago
      I've used Bitrise for iOS CI, in which case their integration just takes your Apple username/password as input in the build process. If you're scripting it yourself or testing locally you want to look at the xcrun altool command. (Which Apple doesn't document very well, but you can cobble together usage from Googling parameters/issues.) * https://app.bitrise.io/integrations/steps/deploy-to-itunesconnect-application-loader https://app.bitrise.io/integrations/steps/deploy-to-itunesco... * https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_macos_software_before_distribution/customizing_the_notarization_workflow#3087734 https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_m...
- cschep 6y ago
  Checkout `DevToolsSecurity` on the command line. Could help with d. :)
  - 72deluxe 6y ago
    Thanks for this
- saagarjha 6y ago
  > Text search in PDF no longer works In Safari or in general? I have only noticed the former. > I have to use synthetic.conf to map paths from / to my real partition, but the parser of synthetic.conf is very particular to tabs/spaces unlike any other /etc/ file format You may already know this, but man synthetic.conf will explain that you must use tabs. > Xcode wants to ask for my password to debug every single time I reboot and debug a C++ app. This is incredibly incredibly incredibly incredibly annoying. I can only offer you my condolences as I cruise by with SIP off.
  - brigandish 6y ago
    I keep a copy of Skim around for any time I want to do a proper search of a document.

lern_too_spel 6y ago

With issues like this and the 4000 series Ryzen mobile processors, top specced MacBook Pros are very noticably slower than $1k alternatives.

fierarul 6y ago
I see the above comment heavily downvoted but I'm specifically looking at 4000 series Ryzen laptops as my 1st move away from MacBook Pros. Such incredible CPUs really make the decision a bit more acceptable. The laptop I'm eyeing is near $1000.
- shade 6y ago
  Out of curiosity - what are you looking at? I'm also starting to think about replacing my 2016 MBP and quite honestly, the current MacBook Air/MacBook Pro line doesn't really appeal to me. Lenovo has a couple of AMD-based ThinkPads that are looking pretty appealing, although they come in around $1500 with the configuration I'd want.
  - fierarul 6y ago
    Because I need a fast CPU for builds I'm looking at ASUS "gaming" laptops. The ASUS TUF Gaming A15 in particular is under $1000 before taxes here and has a good Ryzen. There are even better gaming laptops from ASUS that are thinner, but I think the A15 is a good 'workhorse'.
- ChrisLTD 6y ago
  What are you eyeing?
  - fierarul 6y ago
    The ASUS TUF Gaming A15. It's a bit flashy but for home office it works.
- caycep 6y ago
  the problem is those are second citizens for most vendors; there's some shady Intel lock in that prevents AMD from getting prime place in the lineup. So you'll get a great CPU but second rate screens, trackpads, etc.

rayiner 6y ago

My 16” is a huge disappointment. After swearing off Intel PCs after a disaster ours X1 Carbon, I switched back to a 2013 15” until this month. Figured after six months bugs would be ironed out. Wrong. I’m seeing two major glitches that have macrumors threads dozens of pages long: 1) with an external display connected, dGPU utilization shoots up to 20W at idle. (The rest of machine draws well under 10W at idle.) That wouldn’t be a big deal if the CPU and GPU didn’t share a tight 70W power budget. 2) when connected to an external monitor or dock—I’ve tried two different TB3 docks—the machine kernel panics regularly, usually waking up from sleep. I’m torn. I don’t want to return the machine because everything else is crap. At least the 16” works well as a laptop so long as you don’t plug anything into the ports. But Apple’s Q&A has seriously gone down the toilet ever since Steve Jobs died. Clearly him throwing staplers at people was the glue holding Apple together.

reaperducer 6y ago
when connected to an external monitor or dock—I’ve tried two different TB3 docks—the machine kernel panics regularly, usually waking up from sleep. I had a similar problem, and it turned out that the dock needed a driver. I don't think I've installed a driver for an external device since I switched to Macs years ago, so it never occurred to me that something like a dock would need a driver. But it turns out that once I installed the vendor's driver, the problems all went away. I'm not sure who's fault that is.
Marsymars 6y ago
I've had neverending problems with sleep mode on the Macs I've owned (2012 Mac Mini, now 2016 MacBook usually docked) - never really worked out the issue other than entirely disabling sleep when connected to power.
thestephen 6y ago
Since 10.15.4, my 16" started having kernel panics while waking up from sleep. Disabling Power Nap seems to mitigate this. While this is an awful stopgap solution, at least I can get back to work.
- 6y ago

jmvoodoo 6y ago

I've heard bad things about system76 laptop build quality (desktop I think is top notch). Has this improved at all?

freehunter 6y ago
System76 uses rebranded Sager And Clevo laptops, they don’t actually build their own. So you can probably get some more (and more diverse) reviews by searching for the model of the actual manufacturer.

amelius 6y ago

Don't worry, Apple will change this. Big companies always make sure that customers just barely find their products acceptable. This was just a test to see if they could get away with it.

digitaltrees 6y ago

What are the other problems with Catalina for you? I ask because every time there is an OS X update someone posts this exact sentiment but then over a few months the issues get resolved. Please don’t interpret this as an attack; I am genuinely curious and want to see if Apple ends up fixing things. I my self have a maxed out 16 MacBook Pro and a for the first few weeks after the upgrade it was literally in usable because routine user input would result in the entire system locking up. I suspect it was actually this issue but, thankfully, the issue is now resolved.

msie 6y ago
I installed Catalina on my iMac several days ago and ImageCapture still has bugs! Although I can now select multiple photos to import from my iPhone 11, ImageCapture will not delete the photos after import. Previous to that, ImageCapture on Catalina would not import more than 10 photos without reporting an error. At least they fixed that bug.
- knolan 6y ago
  I’m curious, is there a reason to use image capture when you can just AirDrop the images? Does Image Capture give you the HEIC format file or something?
  - brigandish 6y ago
    Surely it's faster?
    - knolan 6y ago
      It requires finding a (USB 2.0) cable, connecting both devices, approving trust, and then opening an App and selecting and waiting. AirDrop requires touch based selection and sharing on the iOS device and the transfer is very quick and if it’s your Mac the files go straight to your downloads folder. So it’s more streamlined overall with AirDrop. I had a colleague who used to do a similar dance with Image Capture. He had no idea he could AirDrop photos even though he airdropped files from Finder to others all the time. Personally I just have them all sync via iCloud Photo Library.

vmception 6y ago

One thing that always turned me off of Windows was that I would be in the control panel or command line within 5 minutes of using any system to fix a preference, and how with OSX it was refreshing not to have to do the equivalent in System Preferences or terminal. This is no longer true. It is a very similar and annoying experience for me. I use OSX, Windows and various versions of Linux. The browser is the real platform at this point and is the shared experience between all three.

timw4mail 6y ago
Hah, I don't remember the last time I set up any OS and didn't have to change settings on first boot. Maybe OS X 10.4 worked for me out of the box. The longer you use a computer, the more you expect certain behavior, and the less you get it out of the box.

wincent 6y ago

I was gnashing my teeth over exactly this last night — 26 years on a Mac for me: https://wincent.com/blog/grieving-for-apple https://wincent.com/blog/grieving-for-apple

mohdmasd 6y ago

There's also the issue of losing all your data if you enabled Secure-Boot (which is default) and the T2 chip failed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dwqxsDHkKQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dwqxsDHkKQ

x3n0ph3n3 6y ago

How does the keyboard and trackpad for that System76 laptop feel? I've been looking at those quite a bit and am seriously considering one to replace my 2014 MacBook Air.