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I think UE and Unity has complete different markets. Unity is focused on small mobile game developers, those small shops don’t have expertise to work with UE C+

I think UE and Unity has complete different markets. Unity is focused on small mobile game developers, those small shops don’t have expertise to work with UE C++ source code and most of them are new grads themselves. I’m not sure what is the overall strategy of Unity but I don’t believe they care much about the PC/Console space and frankly at this point I don’t believe they will ever manage to capture it from UE.

drawkbox 6y ago
> Unity is focused on small mobile game developers Someone remind Unity of that.
- bluescrn 6y ago
  They really do need that reminder. The people making money from Unity-based games are primarily mobile/F2P devs, and smaller indie developers. They need stability and ease-of-use/very-rapid-development much more than they need performance or the latest shiny high-end graphics features.
  - kbenson 6y ago
    I thought I remembered there being some bigger games, but looking at a list[1], they are all pretty indie, or at least small. Not sure I saw a AAA game on the list (which doesn't mean there aren't any, but they seem rare). The equivalent list for Unreal Engine[2] does contain quite a few big titles (along with a plethora of less well known ones). I'm not sure if that's cause, effect or marketing. It could be that using Unreal Engine results in a smoother process and is more likely to result in a AAA target game being AAA. It could be that AAA studios area already predisposed to use Unreal Engine. It could be both. It could be that Unreal Engine is just better at marketing to larger studios given their pedigree. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unity_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unity_games 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games
    - drawkbox 6y ago
      The OP article is written by Garry Newman the developer that did Rust in the Unity list from 2013. Previously he was the developer of Garry's Mod on Valve Source engine.
      - kbenson 6y ago
        I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate. That Rust is a AAA title? It's not, as I understand it. AAA is not a designation of quality or popularity, it's a designation of resources that go into it. Large company with lots of resources putting lots of money behind it means AAA. It's less a designation of the end product than of the process going into that product.
        drawkbox 6y ago
        Just mentioned that it was on the list of games in terms of popularity, never said it was AAA. However, Garry has lots of pull in games including towards AAA developers. I did not say that game was AAA but on the notable Unity list that everyone knows about. Rust is much bigger than most Unity games, so Garry's opinion on this is highly relevant and influential. Facepunch studios and their forums were also a gamedev spot for a long time. Garry Newman is also someone speaking from shipping experience in another engine that is for AAA studios, Valve Source Engine. Eventhough that was a mod, and yes not a massive budget or team, it has pull at the AAA level in terms of influence as well. Rust competes with AAA titles on Steam in terms of playtime/playercount all the time, was top 10 for a while and quite often. [1] The point is Garry's opinion is more valid than most, even at AAA probably about Unity. A developer of a top 10 Steam game has some pull and is someone to listen to, hopefully Unity hears it. Rust is clearly one of the biggest games in terms of playtime/playercount than most Unity games at least on Steam with the popularity only rising since release in 2013. Rust is AAA level in terms of playtime/playercount with a small team, that is exactly the market Unity wants, in fact it highlights the benefits of Unity clearly. They should listen. [1] https://steamcharts.com/app/252490#All https://steamcharts.com/app/252490#All
        6y ago
- redisman 6y ago
  But it's more fun to work on 5 different rendering pipelines! They're definitely trying to please everyone without really catering greatly to anyone. Like the official 2D capabilities are still about as hacky as what I implemented 5 years ago myself in about a month of work at a mobile games studio.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
georgeecollins 6y ago
A lot of mobile game developers who use Unity aren't small at all. They are huge companies with lots of experienced engineers. The baby devs don't generate the $ for Unity.
- Mirioron 6y ago
  Mobile games in some sense have taken over gaming. They're not as flashy, but the amount of money some of them seem to generate is obscene. Just take a look at NCSoft's income and how mobile Lineage crushed all of their other offerings.
- drawkbox 6y ago
  > A lot of mobile game developers who use Unity aren't small at all. They are huge companies with lots of experienced engineers. The baby devs don't generate the $ for Unity. Even if they are large companies, the teams are still small and the point of Unity is simplicity. Unity wants to be AAA for console/desktop but mobile is their bread and butter as you say. Companies and indies chose it for simplicity and there are lots of Unity developers. They are messing up the simplicity angle and going after new markets but causing pain for their existing customers. I get they want to grow and sell more licenses, but I'd argue most of their paying customers are indies, smaller mobile studios and larger mobile studios the have many small game teams. Unity also make lots of money from the asset store. All these constant breaking changes also break many assets. Unity just need a more consistent surface level API/signature/facade, and move the hard stuff down below that for most cases with advanced modes accessible with more setup/work. Their changes now are making people that don't need AAA level output, more cartoony mobile games, do unnecessary work losing out on their selling point of simplicity.

drawkbox 6y ago

> Unity is focused on small mobile game developers Someone remind Unity of that.

bluescrn 6y ago
They really do need that reminder. The people making money from Unity-based games are primarily mobile/F2P devs, and smaller indie developers. They need stability and ease-of-use/very-rapid-development much more than they need performance or the latest shiny high-end graphics features.
- kbenson 6y ago
  I thought I remembered there being some bigger games, but looking at a list[1], they are all pretty indie, or at least small. Not sure I saw a AAA game on the list (which doesn't mean there aren't any, but they seem rare). The equivalent list for Unreal Engine[2] does contain quite a few big titles (along with a plethora of less well known ones). I'm not sure if that's cause, effect or marketing. It could be that using Unreal Engine results in a smoother process and is more likely to result in a AAA target game being AAA. It could be that AAA studios area already predisposed to use Unreal Engine. It could be both. It could be that Unreal Engine is just better at marketing to larger studios given their pedigree. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unity_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unity_games 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games
  - drawkbox 6y ago
    The OP article is written by Garry Newman the developer that did Rust in the Unity list from 2013. Previously he was the developer of Garry's Mod on Valve Source engine.
    - kbenson 6y ago
      I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate. That Rust is a AAA title? It's not, as I understand it. AAA is not a designation of quality or popularity, it's a designation of resources that go into it. Large company with lots of resources putting lots of money behind it means AAA. It's less a designation of the end product than of the process going into that product.
      - drawkbox 6y ago
        Just mentioned that it was on the list of games in terms of popularity, never said it was AAA. However, Garry has lots of pull in games including towards AAA developers. I did not say that game was AAA but on the notable Unity list that everyone knows about. Rust is much bigger than most Unity games, so Garry's opinion on this is highly relevant and influential. Facepunch studios and their forums were also a gamedev spot for a long time. Garry Newman is also someone speaking from shipping experience in another engine that is for AAA studios, Valve Source Engine. Eventhough that was a mod, and yes not a massive budget or team, it has pull at the AAA level in terms of influence as well. Rust competes with AAA titles on Steam in terms of playtime/playercount all the time, was top 10 for a while and quite often. [1] The point is Garry's opinion is more valid than most, even at AAA probably about Unity. A developer of a top 10 Steam game has some pull and is someone to listen to, hopefully Unity hears it. Rust is clearly one of the biggest games in terms of playtime/playercount than most Unity games at least on Steam with the popularity only rising since release in 2013. Rust is AAA level in terms of playtime/playercount with a small team, that is exactly the market Unity wants, in fact it highlights the benefits of Unity clearly. They should listen. [1] https://steamcharts.com/app/252490#All https://steamcharts.com/app/252490#All
        6y ago
redisman 6y ago
But it's more fun to work on 5 different rendering pipelines! They're definitely trying to please everyone without really catering greatly to anyone. Like the official 2D capabilities are still about as hacky as what I implemented 5 years ago myself in about a month of work at a mobile games studio.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

georgeecollins 6y ago

A lot of mobile game developers who use Unity aren't small at all. They are huge companies with lots of experienced engineers. The baby devs don't generate the $ for Unity.

Mirioron 6y ago
Mobile games in some sense have taken over gaming. They're not as flashy, but the amount of money some of them seem to generate is obscene. Just take a look at NCSoft's income and how mobile Lineage crushed all of their other offerings.
drawkbox 6y ago
> A lot of mobile game developers who use Unity aren't small at all. They are huge companies with lots of experienced engineers. The baby devs don't generate the $ for Unity. Even if they are large companies, the teams are still small and the point of Unity is simplicity. Unity wants to be AAA for console/desktop but mobile is their bread and butter as you say. Companies and indies chose it for simplicity and there are lots of Unity developers. They are messing up the simplicity angle and going after new markets but causing pain for their existing customers. I get they want to grow and sell more licenses, but I'd argue most of their paying customers are indies, smaller mobile studios and larger mobile studios the have many small game teams. Unity also make lots of money from the asset store. All these constant breaking changes also break many assets. Unity just need a more consistent surface level API/signature/facade, and move the hard stuff down below that for most cases with advanced modes accessible with more setup/work. Their changes now are making people that don't need AAA level output, more cartoony mobile games, do unnecessary work losing out on their selling point of simplicity.