4 ms·

Nixpkgs has already done much of that work for you, thankfully.

amelius 6y ago
Yes that's true. But some things remain difficult, for example installing the latest version of CUDA. https://discourse.nixos.org/t/cuda-setup-on-nixos/1118/9 https://discourse.nixos.org/t/cuda-setup-on-nixos/1118/9
- ninjin 6y ago
  Yes, absolutely. Although to be fair, CUDA is a royal pain (although way easier) even on more standard distributions (supporting multiple versions seamlessly is hours and hours of fun and breaks all too easily) and is behind the great majority of time “wasted”. NVIDIA deserves a lot more flak for this than they receive.
  - zetalemur 6y ago
    Very true. Part of the reason is probably that you need the proprietary drivers to use CUDA efficiently and as they are not in the (upstream) kernel you have to use some other tools, like unofficial repositories or the native installer (which doesn't always play well with the OS package manager, system upgrades, etc.). It's a real PITA.
- sfj 6y ago
  Funny, I was able to install it (for use with pytorch) just a few days ago without a hitch.
  - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
    Did you use conda? It does a lot of the leg work for you.
    - sfj 6y ago
      No, I tried conda once, but it downloaded gigs and gigs of data, and I have enough trouble trying to keep nix under control.
K0SM0S 6y ago
It's a true wonder but much like the AUR (read: Archlinux User Repo), it's great 80% of the time when projects have reasonable popularity or committed (even 'niche') support. It's honestly a treat for personal use if you have the mind of a tinkerer, but it's a difficult proposition to sustain in business (you basically end up vendoring yourself if big enough). Nix has a very different proposition that solves from the "inside" a problem that is currently usually solved from the "outside" using e.g. Ansible in ops/infra, or Vagrant in dev. In my perspective, the outside/black-box solution is ultimately brute-force, plain and simple. It works because it scales well, because copying data is cheap enough (re. deduplication, delta sync, etc) You hit limits when systems grow older and complexity creeps in no matter what however, it's an approach that requires a blank slate every now and then. But the inside package approach is elegant in that it's absolute, it's not conjuring a black box that "should just work" if Ubuntu18.04-387lts-32-1.989-2a and my_fav_package.1.1.1.9.3.5-f work fine together, this time around. Sure, there is testing but we're back to the popularity/support limit. In the end, in a world where some of the stack is basically nailed and can be modularized with clear forever-true expectations of I/O (the content, not the hardware), then Nix eventually prevails— but we really have to evolve "LTS" for what it means (like we'd do in construction, electricity, plumbing...), and not a half-trendy windmill / rat race. But we have to think of those systems that could transfer almost-as-is well from now to 2050 or more, not 2025-2030. It's not impossible, it's what COBOL did, does as we speak. I think something like Nix could help shift perception in the right direction, but I expect mindsets to take a good part of the decade to change deeply, if it happens.

Yes that's true. But some things remain difficult, for example installing the latest version of CUDA. https://discourse.nixos.org/t/cuda-setup-on-nixos/1118/9 https://discourse.nixos.org/t/cuda-setup-on-nixos/1118/9

ninjin 6y ago
Yes, absolutely. Although to be fair, CUDA is a royal pain (although way easier) even on more standard distributions (supporting multiple versions seamlessly is hours and hours of fun and breaks all too easily) and is behind the great majority of time “wasted”. NVIDIA deserves a lot more flak for this than they receive.
- zetalemur 6y ago
  Very true. Part of the reason is probably that you need the proprietary drivers to use CUDA efficiently and as they are not in the (upstream) kernel you have to use some other tools, like unofficial repositories or the native installer (which doesn't always play well with the OS package manager, system upgrades, etc.). It's a real PITA.
sfj 6y ago
Funny, I was able to install it (for use with pytorch) just a few days ago without a hitch.
- disgruntledphd2 6y ago
  Did you use conda? It does a lot of the leg work for you.
  - sfj 6y ago
    No, I tried conda once, but it downloaded gigs and gigs of data, and I have enough trouble trying to keep nix under control.

K0SM0S 6y ago

It's a true wonder but much like the AUR (read: Archlinux User Repo), it's great 80% of the time when projects have reasonable popularity or committed (even 'niche') support. It's honestly a treat for personal use if you have the mind of a tinkerer, but it's a difficult proposition to sustain in business (you basically end up vendoring yourself if big enough). Nix has a very different proposition that solves from the "inside" a problem that is currently usually solved from the "outside" using e.g. Ansible in ops/infra, or Vagrant in dev. In my perspective, the outside/black-box solution is ultimately brute-force, plain and simple. It works because it scales well, because copying data is cheap enough (re. deduplication, delta sync, etc) You hit limits when systems grow older and complexity creeps in no matter what however, it's an approach that requires a blank slate every now and then. But the inside package approach is elegant in that it's absolute, it's not conjuring a black box that "should just work" if Ubuntu18.04-387lts-32-1.989-2a and my_fav_package.1.1.1.9.3.5-f work fine together, this time around. Sure, there is testing but we're back to the popularity/support limit. In the end, in a world where some of the stack is basically nailed and can be modularized with clear forever-true expectations of I/O (the content, not the hardware), then Nix eventually prevails— but we really have to evolve "LTS" for what it means (like we'd do in construction, electricity, plumbing...), and not a half-trendy windmill / rat race. But we have to think of those systems that could transfer almost-as-is well from now to 2050 or more, not 2025-2030. It's not impossible, it's what COBOL did, does as we speak. I think something like Nix could help shift perception in the right direction, but I expect mindsets to take a good part of the decade to change deeply, if it happens.