12 ms·
One of the best things that could happen to the gaming landscape would be if companies like EA and similar learned from Microsoft's move to open sourcing more s
by capableweb 6y ago
One of the best things that could happen to the gaming landscape would be if companies like EA and similar learned from Microsoft's move to open sourcing more software and involving the community more gives them a lot more goodwill and business as a side-effect.
And then us gamers get more long-lived games as a benefit as well.
- wlesieutre 6y agoA lot of newer games probably include middleware licensed from other companies that make relicensing more challenging
- colejohnson66 6y agoAlso, the SDKs for console ports may be under NDA. I’m looking at you, Nintendo Switch.
- Alupis 6y ago> A lot of newer games probably include middleware licensed from other companies that make relicensing more challenging Commonly Physics Engines, like Havok and others.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- klodolph 6y agoThis is why the original Doom (1992) source release had no sound, for example.
- endgame 6y agoBink Video is another common obstacle for games from the mid-to-late-'90s.
- gambiting 6y agoAnd also, art assets - I've touched on this briefly with an older game from the studio where I work, and basically we could probably release the source code, but since it was a racing game we couldn't release the art assets as they are copyrighted by car manufacturers(or at least it would be a significantly complicated legal problem to not be worth the time).
- kibwen 6y agoI believe that's standard and well-understood; Quake's source code has famously been GPL for decades (thanks, Carmack!), but all the data files (e.g. art assets) remain copyrighted.
- toohotatopic 6y agoYou can always release the game with some generic art and offer the copyrighted assets in a shop. With some luck the game becomes popular and people add further assets to your shop. Demand some commission and you may have created a cash cow.
- gambiting 6y agoSure, but this particular game was from the late 90s - we looked at re-exporting some of the assets and I have no idea how you'd even approach it without significant time investment, the tools used to make the original art no longer exist(we have the source code for the game, but not for the tools used at the time, I've gone through stacks of old CDs that had backups and 9/10 discs were just gone, completely corrupted), or used hardware that would be difficult to source(like cutscenes made on silicon graphics machines, there is no good way to edit and export these project files on modern machines)
- Keyframe 6y agoAs a former SGI user, I'm afraid we'll never see emulation happen.
- 6y ago
- VWWHFSfQ 6y agoThey don't want long-lived games. They want you to buy new games
- boardwaalk 6y ago... or semi-long-lived games you keep being squeezed for until they shut off the servers, as is the current fad.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Arkanosis 6y agoWell, the first thing I thought while reading this was that it would have been great if Microsoft had released the source code of Age of Empires with the release of the Definitive Edition, as well as considered a LAN mode. Unfortunately, while AoE2:DE is an awesome game, they have done neither… Good thing that there are projects like OpenAge going on!
- msrmthehomeless 6y agoEA knows that everyone dislike them and they'll need to rebuild their trust. This is part of their gesture. MS doesn't have this problem.
- JumpCrisscross 6y agoI wonder if we could create a tax incentive for this. For example, if a publisher commits to open sourcing N years after release, they get a break on sales. Or get to capitalise R&D more aggressively during development.
- squarefoot 6y agoI would love to see it applied also to hardware, so that for example when a 8 years old phone that nobody would buy anymore gets opened (including chipsets) small Linux distros can be ported to it, turning it into a hacking platform, IoT terminal, media player, navigator, etc. instead of a paperweight, or worse, more junk into some 3rd world landfill.
- NoInputSignal 6y agoIMHO, I think this counters a philosophical point of open source software. The open code to the software we use should not be a handout or a gift ex post facto. The open code to the software should be an invitation: to collaborate on it, audit it, or frankly do anything you want with it (e.g. WTFPL); before, during, and after using it.
- Ericson2314 6y agoThat's like saying "landlords shouldn't be incentivized to hand over apartment over to residents after x years, because all housing should be publicly held" You're not wrong, but given the world we live in the incentive would be better. And I would say that's the sort of "non-reformist reform" that's liable to push towards the ideal, not appease and reinforce the status quo.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago> That's like saying "landlords shouldn't be incentivized to hand over apartment over to residents after x years, because all housing should be publicly held" > You're not wrong "Not wrong" seems like a... generous... description of this viewpoint. Lots of places tried the system of "all housing is publicly held"; it was not a success.
- danso 6y agoBeyond goodwill – which imho would likely be relatively minor given what the average gamer cares about – open-sourcing in the hopes of stimulating mod support is a very cool idea. It looks like EA is providing a map editor, but having the DLLs out there makes it more possible for dedicated users to really tinker with game logic and internals, and (hopefully) create the kind of ongoing sophisticated DLC for other players that EA isn't willing to create and sell itself. I wonder if active support for open source by game companies will eventually reap the benefits it ostensibly does for big tech companies. For example, by open sourcing React, FB not only can influence JS frameworks in general, it can cultivate a hiring pool of engineers already familiar or proficient with React internals. There's already limited precedent with game companies hiring creators of big-time mods (Valve hiring the creator of Dota). But I'd think more open source support and reducing the friction for fans to become creators would surface even more talent.
- chucksmash 6y ago> EA is providing a map editor The original Red Alert came with a map editor way back when as well :-) It's probably been 22 years (!!), but IIRC it was strictly for editing terrain only. You couldn't place buildings, place units, or script scenarios.
- drited 6y agoAnyone remember the v2 rashdown map that someone made which became popular online? Bottleneck at either side, tanks through the middle, Tesla towers and v2 rockets to shoot over the rocks.
- sitkack 6y agoSeems like now there should be a universal map format and then a compiler to target different backends. I know each engine has its own capabilities and bugs, but it would be sweet to be able create a level using a universal format and run on unreal, unity, quake3, etc.
- enitihas 6y agoBut Microsoft has not open sourced anything that was making $ for them. Neither windows nor any part of office, or any part of enterprise suite. What Microsoft has open sourced are things where similar stuff was already open source, and Microsoft wouldn't have made much money selling those. e.g, VSCode, tyepscript. EA also open sources stuff like that. They even have open sourced a java library to be able to write async await style code in java. They off course won't open source money making games, and neither does MSFT.
- soared 6y agoYou’re moving the goal posts.
- renewiltord 6y agoIs he? He's just saying both MS and EA are equivalent in what they open source right now.
- modmans2nd 6y agoMS is open sourcing their platforms which is more valuable than their products from a community benefit perspective.
- enitihas 6y agoEA has open sourced tons of their internal libraries which are "more valuable than their products from a community benefit perspective." Just take a look at their GitHub. What "platform" of theirs has MSFT open sourced? Which of those were an important platform of MSFT. EA is atleast releasing something which made them money as open source.
- apetresc 6y ago> What "platform" of theirs has MSFT open sourced? Which of those were an important platform of MSFT? Uhh, .NET?
- mackal 6y agohttps://github.com/electronicarts/EASTL https://github.com/electronicarts/EASTL EA has a few things open sourced.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- RIMR 6y agoYou have to ask, "what would it hurt?". Imagine if Bungie open-sourced Destiny and Destiny 2. Sure, you don't have to buy the game anymore to get the software, but they also don't have to let you onto their immersive and highly moderated and orchestrated servers. They can offer their own signed builds that you need to access the official universe. So you could still break the game apart and build new content for fun, but the main game could still stand on its own and still be easy to sell to people because you're not selling the world, you're selling the experience.
- thaumasiotes 6y agoThey wouldn't be able to discourage private servers. Unquestionably legitimate private servers have a huge advantage over the official, for-pay server.
- 29athrowaway 6y agoid Software, a much smaller company, open sourced the source code of almost all their games and ported them to operating systems known not to be profitable. The benefits of those altruistic decisions are simply unmeasurable. They did all this while still having to work an insane amount of hours to ship their ambitious products. For example, not long ago, Quake II RTX was released by NVIDIA as a way to demonstrate the advanced raytracing capabilities of their new RTX cards. A decision made in 2001 (open sourcing Quake II) continues to benefit the world today. Decades ago, Sun Microsystems open sourced OpenOffice, Java and Solaris. LibreOffice is a fork of OpenOffice and is one of the few office suites available free of cost. Before Microsoft acquired Github, Github open sourced Atom, an editor similar in scope to VS Code. They also open sourced Electron, which is the framework used by VS Code. Smaller companies have been doing much more. Microsoft has open sourced some interesting projects, but to say that companies are open sourcing projects because Microsoft is a pioneer in open source is just 4/20 talk. Microsoft will never open source strategic projects like DirectX, Microsoft Office, SQL server or Windows. They will keep making money hand over fist.
- dependenttypes 6y agoThe reverse happened. MS learned from EA. The source for the first simcity was released in 2008, back when MS was still calling GPL and Linux cancer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimCity_(1989_video_game)#Micropolis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimCity_(1989_video_game)#Micr... Can't wait for MS to learn from EA and open source Windows 95.
- WorldMaker 6y agoMicrosoft did open source 1983's DOS: https://github.com/Microsoft/MS-DOS https://github.com/Microsoft/MS-DOS Given they've only made it to DOS 2.0 so far, it might take them a while to open source Windows 95, but it no longer seems like an impossibility either.
- erikbye 6y ago> learn from Microsoft Apparently, Microsoft is now the exemplary open source hero. Previous to them, there was none other to learn from.
- capableweb 6y agoOf course not, but I think Microsoft is the biggest example of a huge company turning around from "open source is cancer" to "let's try to do open source for some things". I'm sure there are more examples of companies embracing open source after previously looking down on it, maybe you have some names handy?
- a_imho 6y agoMicrosoft embracing things is definitely not a good thing. There are plenty of reasons to put irrelevant stuff on their very own Github, but altruism is very down on that list when it comes to enterprise, especially Microsoft. Fool me once and all that. Microsoft might be pioneering the wolf in sheep clothing model, but I for one, better liked the honest, openly hostile approach. I'm going to reconsider my point when everyone can compile their own fork of Windows and Office.
- erikbye 6y agoIt's not important what any other company has done. Motivations and end goal is. Microsoft's embrace might be a vampire's. Long term, the involvement of companies like Microsoft in OSS and OSS communities might be damaging, not beneficial.
- nitrogen 6y agoThis goes at least as far back as Doom/Quake/Wolf3D(?) from ID software. Literal decades before MS started opening things.
- slightwinder 6y ago> And then us gamers get more long-lived games as a benefit as well. Which is only in the interesst of small companies, but against the interesst of big companies. Basically any single-game-company has a strong interesst in a long-selling game, take Minecraft, Stardew Valley or League of Legends. They are selling the same game for a decade and make good money with it. Though in case of League of Legends it's "game as a service"-approach, not just a single game without any extras. Big companies like EA on the other side invest regulary in development of new games and need people to buy them all. Thouhg, they do have those "game as a service"-types too, for example Sims, which get's flooded with small extra-content, skins and little crap. Allowing modding there would totally kill this business-concept, because then people would not need anymore to buy the costly stuff from EA, but get it for free from somewhere.