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Google bans my events app for referencing Covid-19, or related terms

• wodenokoto 6y ago
  That is rough. I had to read your text several times to find anything related to COVID, but I guess it is the "which will allow you to enjoy this confinement" part. I'm no expert, but I guess you need to try and phrase it like it just the thing you need when you are home, and let the users figure out why they are home.
  • trca 6y ago
    Could also be mentioning of "quarantine" directly. Might make sense to make your app description more generic to just being home, so that it will still be applicable after the COVID-19 pandemic has come to a conclusion.
    • RonanTheGrey 6y ago
      Yeah, makes me wonder if apps for "stay at home" parents are getting hit too, despite the fact that the expression is decades old.
• Uhrheber 6y ago
  Artificial intelligence? More like dumber than the dumbest human.
  • coffeefirst 6y ago
    Yes. Going after the crop of fraudsters and SEO scammers trying to cash in on the crisis is a fine idea. But between this and Podcast Addict, it's pretty clear they're just indiscriminately deleting everything or trusting and algorithm to make hard calls. The odds are good they ban Red Cross or a reputable news organization.
    • ravenstine 6y ago
      Whoa, they took away Podcast Addict? I've used PA for nearly a decade and can't see how they could credibly ban it from their store. Either this is a result of their advanced "AI" making an oopsie or they're using the current situation as an excuse to axe their competition, and I'm more likely to believe the latter. Google always acts with a degree of plausible deniability.
    • nailer 6y ago
      I don't understand how Google could decide a single organisation has the canonical source of truth on a subject, nor the failure in logic Google are using to determine there's any way to determine absolute truth at scale. Keep in mind the WHO published this in January: > Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳. If Google's policy of removing anything that contradicts the WHO existed back then, then they would be deleting any heterodox opinion saying Corona can be transferred between humans. https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152?s=20 https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152?s=20
• cryptoquick 6y ago
  Google is just such an awful, despicable company, that I've actually moved everything I can from their platform. It wasn't easy, I'd been a Gmail user for nearly 15 years. I'd rather pay Microsoft a hundred bucks a year than support them. That's how much I hate Google.
  • FrozenSynapse 6y ago
    If Google specifically says in it's Google Play TOS that keywords related to COVID-19 are forbidden, then the decision is correct. Stop hating on Google! Google is one of the few companies that provide quality services for end-users "for free".
    • hpoe 6y ago
      You're right all just "for free" don't mind them now slurping up your emails, tracking your locations at all times, recording your voice, and more. It's free. Don't worry about what's happening outside the Coliseum focus on the bread and circuses being passed out everything is fine.
    • cwhiz 6y ago
      Legitimately, are you a paid Google employee?
      • pb7 6y ago
        Unlikely. Google employees are paid too much to care what people on a forum think about the company.
        • altgoogler 6y ago
          Googler here. You might be surprised about what Google employees care about.
      • 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html >Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email us and we'll look at the data.
• nocturnial 6y ago
  Could you post your back-and-forth with google support? In the worst case, I doubt it will resolve anything but it could give other developers an idea on how or how not to communicate with google. In the best case, you might restore your app on google and have a template for other developers on how to deal with this issue. If you have send a request but didn't get a reply, please post those as well.
  • jestinjoy1 6y ago
    They banned my app which gives COVID-19 related information in Sign Language. No reply on my appeal yet.
    • nocturnial 6y ago
      You need to give me more than this. Like: I filed a complaint at date X, time Y, and wrote <this>. Today is date X1 and I haven't received a reply. It might not matter for your case, but the next time I'm in a meeting I can use this to say "Hey, maybe it's not smart to go with those services from company Z"
      • cwhiz 6y ago
        I doubt this will be of much use to you but here are the emails I received from Google. I appealed to Google on March 27th at 9:18AM. Received a response on March 30 at 5:31 AM telling me they received my appeal. Google denied my appeal on March 30 at 8:43 PM with no more information than the original. I responded to Google within minutes on March 30 at 9PM. I received an email back from Google on April 1 at 1:10 AM with a final "fuck you." Here is the last email from Google: ---------------- Thanks again for contacting the Google Play team. As much as I'd like to help, I’m not able to provide any more information or a better answer to your question. In our previous email, I made sure to include all the information available to me. As stated in our previous email, we have confirmed your violation, we will not be able to reinstate your app if you don't provide proof that the app is from, commissioned OR supported/acknowledged by a government entity or public health institutions like WHO. -------------------------- And the original rejection from Google: ------------- During review, we found that your app violates the Sensitive Events policy. Specifically, we don't allow apps that lack reasonable sensitivity towards or capitalize on a natural disaster, atrocity, conflict, death, or other tragic event. You can read through the Sensitive Events page for more details. For example, your app currently contains content towards a specific sensitive event, such as Coronavirus, without legitimate source of information. If you are one of the following, please provide verifiable documentation for our review. A government body/healthcare organization who developed this app. A developer commissioned to build this app by a government or an official health organization entity (examples include WHO, Red Cross, Hospital, etc). An app supported/acknowledged by a government or official health entity for use. Alternatively, please be advised that we will not be able to reinstate your application without the above documentation. You may also want to read through the Protecting People From Misinformation paragraph in article Coronavirus: How we're helping on Google's blog. If your developer credentials are still in good standing with Google Play and if your app allows for it, you can publish a new compliant version of the app by following these steps: Make the necessary changes to your app to address the issue described above, if possible. Double check that your app complies with all other policies listed in the Developer Policy Center as additional enforcement could occur if there are further policy violations. Sign in to your Play Console and upload a new app using a new package name and a new app name. Thank you for your understanding. Please let me know if you have any other questions on Google Play policy. -------------------------- Your app can't even mention the words Covid or they'll suspend the app and ding your account. Absolutely preposterous.
• leppr 6y ago
  I've long wished there was a more encompassing alternative to F-Droid, which would include the same payment facilities as Google Play (paid app, in-app payments, subscriptions), allow proprietary apps (but still give FOSS as a search filter and show it as a prominent feature on the app page), and offer plenty of user curation features ala Steam and make filters optional (which would allow communities of independent reviewers to vet apps for child-safety, not being COVID-related, etc... and users to chose whether to restrict themselves to that selection or not). It's quite amazing when you think about it, that two US companies have absolute power over deciding what 99% of people in the world can do with a device that many would describe as an extension of themselves.
  • phh 6y ago
    Nowadays there is Aurora Droid that solves the curation question: Aurora Droid supports F-Droid-like repos, you can have multiple selected, and they may include proprietary applications. All usual issues with Android's security getting in the way still applies though. Overall Aurora Droid is still miles away from a "proper" store, because there is no payment, there is no user feedback (so apps are still ordered by last updated or name...), and I don't think the author plans on adding such features (Because it also requires backend work). That's still a nice update to F-Droid original app.
    • RealStickman_ 6y ago
      Another F-Droid based store app is G-Droid. It is possible to write comments and apps are rated with a mix of user ratings, update intervals and github ratings.
      • efreak 6y ago
        From my understanding, most developers never see this it even know it's there.
  • nocturnial 6y ago
    Epic games tried to side step google: > When Fortnite launched on mobile in 2018, Epic Games very notably sidestepped the Google Play Store and pushed users to download the title directly from their website, an effort made to avoid the substantial revenue cuts that Google takes from in-app purchases of Play Store downloads. After 18 months of harsh rhetoric regarding platform gatekeeping, Epic Games says that Fortnite is now available for download on the Google Play Store, though it will still be downloadable from fortnite.com moving forward. > Google puts software downloadable outside of Google Play at a disadvantage, through technical and business measures such as scary, repetitive security pop-ups for downloaded and updated software, restrictive manufacturer and carrier agreements and dealings, Google public relations characterizing third party software sources as malware, and new efforts such as Google Play Protect to outright block software obtained outside the Google Play store,: an Epic Games spokesperson said in a statement. "Because of this, we've launched Fortnite for Android on the Google Play Store."
• generalpass 6y ago
  And how long before Google decides that all detected side-loaded apps are harmful and automatically removed?
  • FreakyT 6y ago
    I mean, at least they allow sideloading at all, which is more than can be said for that other App Store ecosystem. Still hoping the EU will force Apple to allow sideloading on iPhones, but I’m not super optimistic.
    • vanviegen 6y ago
      Indeed. And they allow third-party payments from within apps. And they have long since supported the most important PWA features (including notifications) in the mobile browser, making the unrestricted web a viable platform for delivering apps. I sometimes find it difficult understanding all the complaining about Google and all the love for Apple, with regard to doing what's right.
• davidg109 6y ago
  I have a strong love/hate relationship with all this App Store oligopoly. Love because often they are weeding out apps with security/privacy concerns. On the flip side, cases like this where you are 600 feet buried in red tape trying to talk some sense into someone at the company. You can try to talk to someone at Google, but good luck with that. I think you’re doing what’s best now. Shine a spotlight so far up Google’s hooter via publicity about your case that someone higher up catches your attention and remedies the situation.
  • elliekelly 6y ago
    I wonder why Apple can’t treat apps the same way they treat charging cables? The Apple approved cables are usually a bit more money but I’m willing to pay a few extra bucks because Apple provides a valuable service to me - I know the cable is much less likely to fry my device. Likewise I’d be willing to pay an extra dollar or two for an app that jumped through all of Apple’s hoops.
• timdorr 6y ago
  One of the most popular podcast apps, Podcast Addict, is dealing with this right now as well: https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/05/18/podcast-addict-pulled-play-store-allegedly-violating-coronavirus-policy/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/05/18/podcast-addict-pull... https://twitter.com/PodcastAddict/status/1261651512947691520 https://twitter.com/PodcastAddict/status/1261651512947691520
  • Kye 6y ago
    HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23219427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23219427
    • koheripbal 6y ago
      Can someone remind me why there is an "app store" that is run by the phone OS maker? Aside from the anti-trust/monopoly type issue, should there be a more market healthy de-coupling between the place I buy my apps and the OS maker? Monopolies are almost always bad for consumers. I kind of chuckle when I think about how Microsoft had such a huge battle over IE being integrated into Windows, and now we sort of accept a situation 100x worse on our mobile phones without batting an eye.
      • g_p 6y ago
        My cynical view is that it's because both OS makers want vertical integration, in order to justify their 30% platform "tax" on being allowed to sell apps on their platform. I'd definitely agree there should be a decoupling (made mandatory if needed) to prevent this conflict of interest. On both platforms, the OS maker enjoys an anticompetitive position of being able to provide their own services without the platform fee (see Apple Music and Spotify dispute), as well as being able to inhibit the visibility of third party rival apps at their whim. I wonder if the issue is that now we don't have a platform with 90+% penetration, this isn't perceived as a monopoly scenario, even though the effects of it are effectively identical as there are significant (cost and practical) barriers to switching, and no feasible ability to enter and provide an alternative. And on iOS, not even feasible - no actual ability at all. But that 30% platform tax must be pretty attractive when justifying your position with legal internally...
• rootusrootus 6y ago
  Since Google is taking such a strong position against what they view as COVID19 misinformation, are they liable if I get sick as a result of some misinformation that managed to get through their filters? I might not try to go after some small time app developer or other rando on the Internet, but if Google is willing to stand behind their guarantee with those wonderfully deep pockets...
  • deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  • logfromblammo 6y ago
    Yes. They are partially liable if you went through them. Censorship of any content implies approval of all remaining content. One can't be protected from liability as a common carrier if one is curating. So if you have been provably harmed by anything Google has served you, you can sue the owner of the content and join Google as a defendant. (Not a lawyer.)
    • danShumway 6y ago
      > Censorship of any content implies approval of all remaining content. One can't be protected from liability as a common carrier if one is curating. No, that's literally the opposite of current US law. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230_of_the_Communications_Decency_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230_of_the_Communicati... Moderation does not imply endorsement of remaining content. It only implies disapproval of the rejected content. There are plenty of people who who would like to change the current legal system, but (thankfully) by either grace, luck, or perseverance they have so far been prevented from doing so.
      • logfromblammo 6y ago
        I stand corrected. Does taking a third of the revenues imply endorsement?
        • 6y ago
• brenden2 6y ago
  I've banned Google from my life, and everyone else should too.
• WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
  Yeah, google banned mine too (https://medium.com/@lazherrera/that-one-time-google-made-it-more-difficult-to-communicate-about-covid-19-cf29c3751c69 https://medium.com/@lazherrera/that-one-time-google-made-it-...)
  • Magnets 6y ago
    >Please remove all metadata and In-app mentions of COVID-19 or its related keywords such as stay home, social distancing, etc. that is just crazy As usual they are just using a hammer to crack a nut. They can't pull this shit with youtube because creators have a direct line to draw attention to it. With developers they know it will go largely unreported
• mavsman 6y ago
  My brother made an app to help people remember to wash their hands when they get home. Simple. Free. No ads. Very minimal. Tracks location locally but doesn't collect it or make any network calls. Google denied him from publishing to the app store until he removed all references to Coronavirus or COVID-19. I only downloaded it because he's my brother but I now realize how helpful it is and it's frustrating that potentially helpful apps are getting banned when they're not even attempting to profit.
• calin2k 6y ago
  stop using COVID-19 as SEO keyword!
• throwawaysea 6y ago
  Google (and Facebook and Twitter and Medium....) are turning into absurd comic book level censors. They have too much leverage and influence over society, and moves like this meaningful harm people’s ability to communicate and conduct basic activities. Google is the worst of them, and should be broken up immediately on antitrust grounds. But let’s not ignore that COVID-19 has exposed the hamfisted authoritarian rule of the digital public square by virtually all technology companies.
• Causality1 6y ago
  They're doing the same on YouTube. Just mentioning covid will get a video demonetized regardless of content. It's as if Google's position is that we have to deny anything is out of the ordinary, like it isn't touching the lives of every person in the world.
• oneiftwo 6y ago
  The engineers at Google, YouTube, get al are no more qualified to gatekeep COVID information than any other layman. People are only rooting for this censorship because at the moment it agrees with their politics. Case in point: for multiple periods of time the WHO and CDC were in conflict regarding mask advice. YouTube's official policy was to remove anything that contradicted WHO guidelines. Should they be dictating whether the CDC or the WHO is more credible? Do we really want tech bros at FAANG to have that kind of power?
• mrtksn 6y ago
  Apple rejected my update for having COVID-19 related keywords, I removed the keywords and submitted again and it was approved pronto. I wasn't trying to piggyback the pandemic or anything like that, I added the keyword because it's relevant to my app. But as I understand it, Apple is not accepting any apps related to COVID-19 that don't come from an authority like a medical institution or a government body. In the face of the reality that there are many people ready to sell their mothers to slavery for profit(and even maybe likes or the LULs), I am O.K. with leaving the pandemic to the monopoly of institutions that can be held responsible for their actions. You should try to re-submit your app without referencing to the pandemic in any way. Do not include any keywords that can get you flagged again. After all, the pandemic could have never happened. You are not entitled to profit from it, right? Your description looks fairly innocent and I see how it is relevant to mention the quarantine and I wish you luck as your app might actually help people with it but it's not the end of the world not to use the word. Unlike you, there are many people looking to rank high in the most popular keywords simply because these are popular keywords at the moment and it's likely that Google and Apple don't have a better way to separate bad apples from the good apples so they go for the crude but safe approach of banning them.
• yadco 6y ago
  Maybe a solution for this sort of thing might be progrsive web apps. You won't be subject to the risk of an app store knocking you off.
• cwhiz 6y ago
  With this policy Google should ban Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Vimeo, every news app, Reddit, etc, etc, etc. Of course, they won't, because this policy is absurd and enforced unevenly.
• nobita 6y ago
  My app was suspended back in March just before Google updated their policy regarding to COVID. And my app was just being submitted for (my own) internal testing, didn't even made public. One would've thought the change in policy back then was to allow Google to offer more clarity and fairness. Seems things are going the other way. Hacker News Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22462315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22462315 Updated Link to Blog Post: https://flyingnobita.com/mobile/flutter/2020/03/02/coronavirus_suspended_my_first_google_play_app.html https://flyingnobita.com/mobile/flutter/2020/03/02/coronavir...
  • floatingatoll 6y ago
    Note that, unlike OP's events app, your app was specifically about Covid/Coronavirus and serves no other purpose but to deliver Covid/Coronavirus information. I expect their judgement call is more plausible in your case than in OP's.
    • nobita 6y ago
      Agree that it's a different case than OP's. Though I'm still puzzled at how Google allows so many YT feeds showing live COVID stats.
• VMisTheWay 6y ago
  I'm not a fan of censorship at any level. But at least you can always have Android users install themselves. Sure you don't get their massive advertising platform Play Store. But that's Google's decision. You can organically develop users, you don't need Google.
  • bcoughlan 6y ago
    That's an option that requires some tech savviness. The choice architecture of Android heavily favours Play Store, so it's deflecting the issue to say it's not a form of censorship because there's a workaround.
• floatingatoll 6y ago
  "circumstances beyond our control" "global circumstances" "event restrictions"
• mkhpalm 6y ago
  Simple solution is to just stop writing apps for Google's platform. There are other avenues that aren't dependent on the corp whims of entities you can't really talk to.
  • Sargos 6y ago
    Not really. The only other option is to limit your service to only desktop PCs/websites which is not super helpful to normal people that just use their phones for everything. Google has a monopoly on phone apps. If they don't like your app then you pretty much don't exist. You don't have many options.
    • rsj_hn 6y ago
      "Normal people" do not just use their phones for everything. Normal people use their phones for getting around and they stare at the screen when they are bored, for example waiting for a bus or waiting in line. When they want to do real work or real play they don't do it on their phone, they need a larger form factor with more power, a bigger screen, and better input technology, whether that is a laptop/desktop or game console. This idea that if something isn't available on your phone, then it's not available is silly. There are many things that, while you can technically put on a phone, really don't thrive there. Phones are low powered, minimal form factor devices with inferior inputs. You do stuff on the phone because the benefit of doing it from any location far surpasses the unpleasantness of the interface. For example getting a cab, or figuring out how to get from A to B, or sending a quick message to someone when you are away from the house. If it's not related to helping you move around from place to place, or helping you connect to a friend quickly, it's not going to thrive on the phone even if you put it there, and if you look at the usage statistics of phone apps versus regular PC apps, you'll see this confirmed.
      • macintux 6y ago
        > When they want to do real work or real play they don't do it on their phone, they need a larger form factor with more power, a bigger screen, and better input technology, whether that is a laptop/desktop or game console. That’s clearly not true. For a large portion of the world, the smartphone is their only computing device. There are about 6 billion smartphones in use. Last I heard, the desktop/laptop install base was around 1 billion, but that’s a fuzzy memory.
• mediaman 6y ago
  Slightly different topic, but Google also suspended our company's adwords account, I believe for using keywords related to COVID-19. The business is an American manufacturer that added capacity to manufacture PPE to make up for the lack of Chinese supply. Since we were supplying direct to the market, the prices of the PPE were in-market from before COVID times, or cheaper. We weren't out to make a killing, just to fill up some manufacturing time and help folks out. We had the equipment, the people, the facility. However, we didn't have a great way to reach people who needed it - healthcare was not our normal industry - so we decided to put it up on Adwords. Within 24 hours, the account was suspended. We appealed it (thinking it must have been a mistake), and a month later, they told us they reviewed it and maintained the suspension. We told them we were only promoting PPE to help people in health care find supply and they didn't care. We've never had suspension issues before. The whole experience left a very negative taste for Google. With their extreme dominance in market share for advertising, they no longer need to cater to customers' needs. (Maybe they care if you're a multimillion dollar customer, but certainly not if you're an everyday SME manfuacturer.) And there's not a lot of alternatives to turn to for that type of advertising. There was no recourse, no discussion, no reasoning. Just the Google blank wall. We wound up manufacturing lots of it anyway to hospitals in need, but Google actively tried to stop distribution of American-made PPE during the pandemic.
  • nihil75 6y ago
    Welcome to the club. Don't get your hopes up getting the ban lifted. Had my startup AdWords account banned because we developed dApps using Solidity and Google didn't like Ethereum at the time. After countless email replies from "Emily" - the Google support bot, and actual phone hangups from the call center, we gave up. And there are plenty of other examples out there.
  • solotronics 6y ago
    Why don't people start lawsuits against them for these unfair business practices? If the damages to your company are small you can even file a local small claims court case. https://kahlerfinancial.com/financial-awakenings/weekly-column/small-claims-get-results-with-big-companies https://kahlerfinancial.com/financial-awakenings/weekly-colu...
• hota_mazi 6y ago
  I believe Google made it clear they will only allow a very small subset of apps related to COVID-19 so they can make sure that - The information on their app store regarding the virus is 100% medically and scientifically accurate. - Nobody takes advantage of the pandemics to profit.
• tzs 6y ago
  > This is my case, but in a near future, how I can advertise my users or future users that my app behaviour is different due to COVID, I have no chance Why do you want to advertise that to your future users? From your description, your app appears to be an event finder that started out for only physical events, and you later expanded that to include online events. The app itself does not appear to have anything to do with COVID. COVID was simply what personally motivated you to add online events, and so it's not clear to me that including COVID related words in the description will actually help anyone find or understand your app on the store.
• tomaszs 6y ago
  Google did not behave like a reasonable business partner. Maybe it would be good to ditch it and support independent web
• a3n 6y ago
  Google pays people hundreds of thousands $ per year so that it acts like a faceless government bureaucracy staffed by lazy drones.
• jimmaswell 6y ago
  However Google frames it, I see this as nothing more than them grabbing a chance to monopolize a popular search term for their own revenue with plausible deniability.
• stx 6y ago
  Youtube also removed several videos from a youtube channel MedCram.com. Its a channel run by a medical doctor who discusses updates from medical journals in technical detail. The following videos have been removed from youtube. - Coronavirus Epidemic Update 10: New Studies, Transmission, Spread from Wuhan, Prevention (2019-nCoV) - Coronavirus Pandemic Update 43: Shortages, Immunity, & Can a TB Vaccine (BCG) Help Prevent COVID-19 - Coronavirus Pandemic Update 57: Remdesivir Treatment Update and Can Far-UVC Disinfect Public Spaces - Coronavirus Pandemic Update 60: Hydroxychloroquine Update; NYC Data; How Widespread is COVID-19 - Coronavirus Pandemic Update 71: New Data on Adding Zinc to Hydroxychloroquine + Azithromycin Watch their latest video to see that they try to stick to the facts and avoid politics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UANgon3Umns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UANgon3Umns
• Pmop 6y ago
  I follow some Brazilian YouTubers who are referring to the covid-19 as "Voldemort".
• kvnnews 6y ago
  Google is not the benevolent dictator of the internet. They are a profit drive soulless corporation. Not saying that’s good or bad, just saying you should expect zero favors from a sociopathic entity.
• lytefm 6y ago
  I've had a similar experience about two months ago. Our app is a simple health and fitness tracker. When corona broke out, we made some adjustments so that people could track their symptoms and export them as Excel file in order to share it with their physician or health authorities. We also adjusted our description accordingly and got banned immediately. We appealed to the ban, removed everything related to corona from the description (I guess the word „quarantine” is the offending word in your case) and got reinstated after a few days. Nowadays it's used by thousands of people participating in a COVID-19 longitudonal study and we haven't had any problems again. Takeaway: Unless you're the WHO, don't mention anything related to COVID-19 in your description. Ask your Chinese friends how to deal with censorship, in Finland they simply make „Kotona” („at home”) instead of „Corona” Videos on YouTube. https://www.millionfriends.de/coronatracker-suspended/ https://www.millionfriends.de/coronatracker-suspended/
• happppy 6y ago
  #boycottGoogle