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Whale fall
- popol12 6y agoFunny, I watched an episode of « Our planet » called « Deep waters » yesterday that is quite related to this article. Life at these depths is really fascinating.
- quickthrowman 6y agoAlso from the BBC/Attenborough, there’s an episode of Blue Planet II which shows a whale fall and the subsequent process of consumption by different species that follows. I agree, it’s fascinating!
- alangibson 6y agoThe spacing of them and the specialization of scavengers is surprising. When I woke up this morning, I had no idea that deep sea whale carcases would constitute an entire hidden global ecosystem, but that's just another day on HN I guess.
- nck4222 6y agoI had the same thought, which made me think how little we know about the ecosystems on earth, which made me think it's even more important to protect the environment. We destroy things before we even know they exist.
- steve_adams_86 6y agoI get conflicting thoughts about this. Sometimes I feel we must have killed countless deep sea dwelling species without ever seeing them. Then sometimes I'm amazed by the resilience and scale of the ocean and wonder if somehow, very few species have gone extinct because of us. The sheer biomass we've removed from the ocean is staggering though, and the cascading effect on the deep sea ecosystems must be immense. There is so much less food to fall down there now.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mongol 6y agoI thought first the article would be about the falling whale in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
- smoyer 6y agoI read it as "Fail Whale" ... between aging eye-sight and on-and-off-again dyslexia, I didn't really stand a chance. OTOH ... awesome article - thanks for sharing!
- cproctor 6y agoAnd I thought it was going to be about Zynga's monetization strategy.
- dylan604 6y agoAll your data are belong to us? That strategy?
- cocktailpeanuts 6y agoCame here having misread the title as "Whale Fail" and thought it would be about some early days of Twitter where they displayed whales when the server went down. But actually learned something very cool!
- Jaruzel 6y agoTo me, 'Whale Fall' makes think of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, when the Heart of Gold invokes it's infinite improbability drive to avoid incoming missiles and said missiles turn into a pot of Petunias and a Whale, with both then falling towards the nearby planet at high speed[1]. -- [1] 'I wonder if it [the planet] will be friends with me?', thought the Whale.
- dylan604 6y ago"Oh no, not again!" To this day, I still wonder why the bowl of petunias thought that
- benwerner01 6y agoBiologists reacting to a Whale Fall discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZzQhiNQXxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZzQhiNQXxU
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Sharlin 6y agoTheir excitement made me so happy!
- FartyMcFarter 6y agoI'm guessing you're not a whale?
- mudita 6y agoYes! Something that touched me a lot was also that they showed excitement together with some very real competence and detailed knowledge.
- jcims 6y agoIf you enjoy this at all, you may want to subscribe. The channel is always like this. Fantastic stuff.
- EndXA 6y agoI found this video for those who want a visual example of what this can look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZzQhiNQXxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZzQhiNQXxU
- unityByFreedom 6y agoI don’t get it, why is a wiki article #1 on HN?
- ddevault 6y ago> On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. From https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Note that, in general, comments like yours are not appreciated here.
- gus_massa 6y agoI agree. From a recent comment of dang: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22990237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22990237 > A Wikipedia link to something obscure, which most readers won't have heard of before, about which there isn't necessarily a good general-purpose article or blog post out there, can be a great HN submission.
- dang 6y agoSee also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23117614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23117614 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23089041 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23089041.
- unityByFreedom 6y agoThanks, I appreciate your effort to encourage productive conversation.
- octocop 6y agoTotally agree, ideas like this is why i read hacker news
- Symmetry 6y ago
- amelius 6y agoI'm just glad that plastic floats.
- pletnes 6y agoNot all plastic does. E.g POM, used in car parts and other durable products. Mass density ~1.4x water. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene?wprov=sfti1
- jondubois 6y agoThis is just like the economy. When a big economic whale falls, it creates opportunities for new smaller entities to evolve by feeding on its carcass.
- dredmorbius 6y agoCoal, oil, and gas.
- zaroth 6y agoThis would be really neat if it actually happened! I think we usually see two distinct failure modes; either a company rots from the inside and loses a significant portion of its peak value before finally succumbing to an acquisition, at which point the single acquirer picks their bones dry. Or a massive company fails in a spectacular fashion, like we might see with some airlines in the next few months, but isn’t it also true that either they will restructure in bankruptcy or a large single competitor will come and sweep them up? I guess the difference is that there’s nothing in the ocean that can devour a whale in one bite, the only option is for many very smaller creatures to feast on it over a long time period. TFA also mentions a crucial factor is the whale needs to fall in the deep sea, coastal water falls don’t result in the same effect. What would be the analogy for the deep sea effect — to preserve the company over time to allow the smaller entities to “feed” on it? If there was a way to better emulate the natural effect I think it would be hugely beneficial to market diversity and competition. I think markets continue to evolve in ways that support and encourage monoliths. This long-term trend has just been massively accelerated over the last couple months.
- appleiigs 6y agoThe govt doesn’t allow economic whales to fall/fail.
- unityByFreedom 6y agoIt did during the Great Depression. Then it realized that was dumb and it took a world war to fully recover.
- mercurialsolo 6y agoWhat's a whale fall equivalent in internet lore? Yahoo?
- asah 6y agoold ISPs and social networks, which are recycled for their users.
- pax 6y agoSomebody laid a joke there: > In the past three years whale fall sites have come under scrutiny, and new species have been discovered, including potential whale fall specialists
- lukas099 6y agoI was confused by this statement at first, too. I thought it meant 'specialists' as in 'scientists who study whale falls'. But I believe it actually means species that specialize in living in whale falls.
- SydneyPumpkin 6y agoWhale fall = bitcoin jargon for large market swings
- octocop 6y agoThe word whale is pretty common in econ slang
- SydneyPumpkin 6y agoDon't understand why people are down voting me for this... No sense of humor in HNews...
- grenoire 6y agoThis makes me wonder whether or not by overfishing (and many other economic activities) at the upper layers of the oceans we have caused significant ecological destruction at the lower layers. How far does the domino effect go?
- xchaotic 6y agoIt’s mentioned in TFA - up to 30% of biomass
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- isoprophlex 6y agoWhoa, apparently they are rather important for carbon sequestration! See the section on the impact of whaling: > However, it is suggested that the removal of large whales might have reduced the total biomass of the deep sea by more than 30%.[24] Whales stored massive amounts of carbon that were exported to the deep sea during whale fall events. Whaling has thus also reduced the ability of the deep sea to sequester carbon.[24]
- parhamn 6y agoVery cool. Given the coming monopoly suits, failing businesses and the political economic discussions, I can see "whale fall" becoming a common analogy. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=whale%20fall https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=w... What happened in October 2019?
- blauditore 6y agoA whale fall was discovered (top commend in this thread): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZzQhiNQXxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZzQhiNQXxU
- leethomas 6y agoThank you, I had recorded the definition of “whale fall” on October 16th last year in my log book as I had just learned about it, but I couldn’t remember from where or how.
- octocop 6y agoI was thinking about this as well, Yahoo was basically a Whale fall
- xwdv 6y agoIs it possible to do falls for other creatures? For example, a Human fall, where instead of being buried when you die you are lowered into the ocean and allowed to fall deep into its depths, where you become a new ecosystem. Or perhaps you wouldn't make it all the way down because you'd get eaten all at once by some larger creature? Or destroyed by pressure?
- goatherders 6y agoThat is among the more fascinating things I've read in a long time.
- eevilspock 6y agoI used to want my body or ashes buried under a newly planted tree. If it weren't for the expense and trouble this would cause my loved ones, I would now ask for a burial at sea into the abyss^. So poetic in word and effect. ^abyssal zone
- haukur 6y agoWhile not exactly the same, the concept of "whale drift" has existed in Icelandic law [1] for almost 8 centuries, and still applies today. It specifies to whom a whale carcass would belong to, depending on the situation, and so forth. The concept of "whale drift" also exists in the Icelandic language, and is used to point out an event as a stroke of great luck. [1] Hvalreki (whale drift) in Icelandic law, from Jónsbók in 1281: https://www.althingi.is/lagas/150b/1281000.401.html https://www.althingi.is/lagas/150b/1281000.401.html
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mike_n 6y agoOne reads stories of pork/etc carcasses that aren't being processed right now, perhaps we could ship those onto barges and into the ocean and dump them overboard to seed new pockets of offshore life on the sea floor.
- FillardMillmore 6y agoHow could we dump it to the bottom without surface-dwelling scavengers tearing through the carcass?
- Drdrdrq 6y agoBesides, when does anything that we try to do to improve the nature, actually help it? Besides limiting our access to it, of course.
- samatman 6y agoFrom what I've been able to gather, scuttling ships to provide artificial reefs works: it increases the surface area of part of the ocean, which in turn leads to an increase in bio-density and species variety. Note that this is a vague impression of a topic I know next to nothing about; I could easily be wrong here.
- FillardMillmore 6y agoThat's somewhat fatalistic and cynical, but there's a kernel of truth in your sentiment. We have of course done good and meaningful work when it comes to environmental protections and preservation - sure, we could argue that perhaps we haven't done enough and should do more, but the effort is there. I'm not sure if our primary goal in "improving nature" is to help "nature" or simply keep nature sustainable for humans and future humans.
- crispyporkbites 6y agoTorpedo them down there
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ctoth 6y agoI cannot speculate to the author's reason for submitting this article, but it is interesting to conceptualize our recent civilizational advancements as a Whale Fall made possible by cheap and abundant energy. What happens when we run out of whale to eat?
- schoen 6y agoI imagine that the submitter, like me, might have heard about it from the link a few days ago in https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/05/12/studies-on-slack/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/05/12/studies-on-slack/
- maze-le 6y agoThat is exactly the case! I heard the term for the first time in this SSC article, clicked the Wikipedia link to fulfill my curiosity and was kind of awe struck by the whole process, so I thought I'd share it here...
- simonkafan 6y agoI've never heared of this term before and it's interesting to read people's interpretation before they knew what it means. I thought this may be a colloquial expression of IT infrastructure admins when all their Docker hosts suddenly fail.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y agoI initially thought it might have something to do with high roller[1] gamblers. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_roller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_roller
- schwartzworld 6y agoor a bowl of petunias thinking "oh no, not again"
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y agoHa! How did I miss that! Re-watched the original TV series only recently.
- dang 6y agoSee also from 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10657034 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10657034
- meej 6y agoA similar phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_log https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_log
- tlavoie 6y agoNurse logs are awesome, and really highlight that circular nature of life. I'm on the BC coast, with a few acres of mostly-forest, and have some examples of these right in the yard. Even the stumps of much larger trees logged long ago, support fair-sized younger trees today.
- tsjq 6y agothis line is so sad. yet another damage caused by humans: >It has been suggested that the whaling industry has had an effect on the biological pump through the elimination of many large whales, reducing the amount of whale falls. The effects of this on benthic whale fall community assemblages is not well understood.[24] However, it is suggested that the removal of large whales might have reduced the total biomass of the deep sea by more than 30%.[24] Whales stored massive amounts of carbon that were exported to the deep sea during whale fall events. >Whaling has thus also reduced the ability of the deep sea to sequester carbon.[24] Carbon can be sequestered for hundreds to thousands of years in the deep sea, supporting benthic communities.[24] It is estimated that, in terms of carbon sequestration, each whale is equivalent to thousands of trees.[25]
- BeeBoBub 6y agoWhale fall described in chapter 81 of Moby Dick: Now, this occasional inevitable sinking of the recently killed Sperm Whale is a very curious thing; nor has any fisherman yet adequately accounted for it. Usually the dead Sperm Whale floats with great buoyancy, with its side or belly considerably elevated above the surface. If the only whales that thus sank were old, meagre, and broken-hearted creatures, their pads of lard diminished and all their bones heavy and rheumatic; then you might with some reason assert that this sinking is caused by an uncommon specific gravity in the fish so sinking, consequent upon this absence of buoyant matter in him. But it is not so. For young whales, in the highest health, and swelling with noble aspirations, prematurely cut off in the warm flush and May of life, with all their panting lard about them; even these brawny, buoyant heroes do sometimes sink.
- echelon 6y agoIt might be me personally, but I can't stand old, long-winded and effervescent writing. My eyes start to jump around in it, and I can't maintain focus. It makes me wonder how our writing and media will be perceived in a hundred or more years. Entire patterns of thought become antiquated as our communication wiring adapts to the ever increasing pace of society. Social media is driving dopamine hits from shorter and shorter forms of engagement. It's amusing to think that Harry Potter might one day read like an opaque relic.
- hprotagonist 6y agodon’t go online for a week and try again. your brain will click right in.
- PostOnce 6y agoI think the opening paragraph of Moby Dick is one of the most memorable of all the novels I have read; I think it would be hard to drive home the emotion with the same gravity in fewer words, and I'll paste it here in case I can con someone else into reading it :) > Call me Ishmael. Some years ago—never mind how long precisely—having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world. It is a way I have of driving off the spleen and regulating the circulation. Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul; whenever I find myself involuntarily pausing before coffin warehouses, and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet; and especially whenever my hypos get such an upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people’s hats off—then, I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can. This is my substitute for pistol and ball. With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship. There is nothing surprising in this. If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards the ocean with me.
- joyj2nd 6y agoHere you see an animation of a falling whale... https://giphy.com/gifs/fat-anS1ZNfpzXSjm https://giphy.com/gifs/fat-anS1ZNfpzXSjm
- theklub 6y agoSo if they sink into a trench I wonder if they just completely explode from the pressure.
- herpderperator 6y agoExternal pressure causes the opposite of an explosion: implosion.
- ioseph 6y agoI'd imagine any gasses would be squeezed out but it wouldn't look like an explosion.
- steve_adams_86 6y agoIf any air was in the lungs it would be replaced with water, otherwise our bodies wouldn't respond much. We're mostly water and other matter that's very hard to compress.