4 ms·

NYTimes will convulse if it can't pit poor vs rich in every single thing.

by greatwhitenorth 6y ago

danharaj 6y ago
What exactly are you insinuating?
- greatwhitenorth 6y ago
  Why does the title have to say "Richest"? Just list the boroughs or areas from which people fled. Most people fled from Manhattan, etc.. Not clickbaity, right?
  - klmadfejno 6y ago
    Because they're asserting causality. The wealth of these people is what enables them to leave. That's the point of the article.
  - TomVDB 6y ago
    Why don’t you have a quick look at the map that they show, and observe that it’s not Manhattan VS Queens or Brooklyn. It’s some specific regions of Manhattan that are know to have some of the priciest residential real estate. The title is not clickbait: it’s a very concise representation of the truth. If they wrote “Manhattan”, that would imply places like Harlem as well, and you can clearly see that almost nobody above, say, 128th St left.
  - cribbles 6y ago
    The title is reflective of the article itself, which uses data to show that the wealth of an NYC neighborhood’s inhabitants is on average directly correlated with the extent to which those inhabitants left during the last few months. Alternatively the article could have “just” listed the boroughs as you suggest, but this would raise the question of why some boroughs emptied out and not others (also why there is visible clustering within those boroughs’ neighborhoods). This is the question the article tries to address.
  - wonderwonder 6y ago
    Because that's what the data says when sorted by wealth? Wealth is a primary driver of many / most aspects of society including covid mortality rate. To ignore this is to abandon valuable tools in both social sciences and medicine. While data can always be manipulated to drive an agenda, I don't see how just naming areas and making no deep dive into the readily available statistics on these areas is helpful. Comments like yours, especially on a site like this really make me worry that people are ignoring science and data in this country because it does not support their preferred narrative and politics. Anti - vaxxers contributing to a resurgence of measles may have just been the beginning. "The five ZIP codes with the highest rates of positive tests for the coronavirus — in Corona, Cambria Heights, East Elmhurst, Queens Village, and Jackson Heights — have an average per capita income of $26,708, while residents in the five with the lowest rates — in Lower Manhattan, Tribeca, Battery Park City, and the east side of Midtown — had an average income of $118,166, according to an analysis of New York City data by The Intercept." ... "Diabetes, one of the conditions that appears to put people with Covid-19 at highest risk of becoming severely ill, is also more common both among black and Latino New Yorkers and in low-income neighborhoods throughout the city." Is the above not useful information? https://theintercept.com/2020/04/09/nyc-coronavirus-deaths-race-economic-divide/ https://theintercept.com/2020/04/09/nyc-coronavirus-deaths-r...
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  People running away from a plague in their city is an entirely common, natural, and understandable reaction. But rather than expressing sympathy, the Times is making it a class warfare thing. The leavers "do not resemble the city as a whole", the article says: they're richer, and more likely to have a college degree, and "mostly white".
  - danharaj 6y ago
    Are they wrong? No one is saying that it is unnatural or baffling that people are leaving the city, are they? What are the implications of the data they are reporting on? Do you think it's class warfare to even acknowledge that people who have better economic means have more freedom to react to the pandemic? Maybe it's class warfare that the poor bear the brunt of the damage the pandemic and quarantine have done, without means to leave, forced to work "essential jobs" to not get evicted and thus more exposed to the virus, and more vulnerable to economic disruptions.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      I think it's class warfare to acknowledge that right this second. If you see a line of refugees trickling out of a disaster zone, and your instinct is to start sorting them by race and wealth, that's not a good mindset.
- KoftaBob 6y ago
  I can't speak for the commenter, but it's pretty obvious lately that the major media outlets love to hit low hanging fruit like class warfare to get outrage and ad views.
brenden2 6y ago
NYT is just a clickbait factory, but so are all major media outlets. The narratives people want right now are 'rich vs. poor' and 'coronavirus scary, China bad'. It's fair to criticize them, but it's like being mad a hot dog vendor is selling hot dogs.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  It's not just a clickbait factory, it's also a major media outlet with general respect. "Top 11 reasons the coronavirus is racist (you won't BELIEVE #6)" doesn't make it to the front page of HN, so as long as the NYT does we should hold it to a higher standard.
  - brenden2 6y ago
    I lost faith in all the major media outlets. I used to hold NYT in high esteem, also Bloomberg, but they have been publishing stuff that borders on nonsense lately (because it gets clicks). Unfortunately the left vs. right tribal stuff seems to override common sense for a lot of people. I still occasionally peruse these sites, but I'm also good at separating opinion from fact. "The news" is about 80% opinion these days, with a few facts sprinkled in here and there.
  - greatwhitenorth 6y ago
    Retracting my comment.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      (e:retracted earlier version of this comment) You've misunderstood the point I was making, which I suspect aligns with your own views on the topic.
      - greatwhitenorth 6y ago
        I was not enraged but you're right. I see your point.
seibelj 6y ago
The NYT has a laser-focus on class and identity politics. Nearly every article is framed through that lens, and it seeps into everything the publish such as movie reviews. However, if you read the comments on articles, a lot of readers express frustration with this focus. Not sure if it matters though, their subscriber levels have been up since the change.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  Controversy sells. That's been true in NYC newspapers for years, back to the Hearst era, if not before.

NYTimes will convulse if it can't pit poor vs rich in every single thing.

danharaj 6y ago

What exactly are you insinuating?

greatwhitenorth 6y ago
Why does the title have to say "Richest"? Just list the boroughs or areas from which people fled. Most people fled from Manhattan, etc.. Not clickbaity, right?
- klmadfejno 6y ago
  Because they're asserting causality. The wealth of these people is what enables them to leave. That's the point of the article.
- TomVDB 6y ago
  Why don’t you have a quick look at the map that they show, and observe that it’s not Manhattan VS Queens or Brooklyn. It’s some specific regions of Manhattan that are know to have some of the priciest residential real estate. The title is not clickbait: it’s a very concise representation of the truth. If they wrote “Manhattan”, that would imply places like Harlem as well, and you can clearly see that almost nobody above, say, 128th St left.
- cribbles 6y ago
  The title is reflective of the article itself, which uses data to show that the wealth of an NYC neighborhood’s inhabitants is on average directly correlated with the extent to which those inhabitants left during the last few months. Alternatively the article could have “just” listed the boroughs as you suggest, but this would raise the question of why some boroughs emptied out and not others (also why there is visible clustering within those boroughs’ neighborhoods). This is the question the article tries to address.
- wonderwonder 6y ago
  Because that's what the data says when sorted by wealth? Wealth is a primary driver of many / most aspects of society including covid mortality rate. To ignore this is to abandon valuable tools in both social sciences and medicine. While data can always be manipulated to drive an agenda, I don't see how just naming areas and making no deep dive into the readily available statistics on these areas is helpful. Comments like yours, especially on a site like this really make me worry that people are ignoring science and data in this country because it does not support their preferred narrative and politics. Anti - vaxxers contributing to a resurgence of measles may have just been the beginning. "The five ZIP codes with the highest rates of positive tests for the coronavirus — in Corona, Cambria Heights, East Elmhurst, Queens Village, and Jackson Heights — have an average per capita income of $26,708, while residents in the five with the lowest rates — in Lower Manhattan, Tribeca, Battery Park City, and the east side of Midtown — had an average income of $118,166, according to an analysis of New York City data by The Intercept." ... "Diabetes, one of the conditions that appears to put people with Covid-19 at highest risk of becoming severely ill, is also more common both among black and Latino New Yorkers and in low-income neighborhoods throughout the city." Is the above not useful information? https://theintercept.com/2020/04/09/nyc-coronavirus-deaths-race-economic-divide/ https://theintercept.com/2020/04/09/nyc-coronavirus-deaths-r...
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
People running away from a plague in their city is an entirely common, natural, and understandable reaction. But rather than expressing sympathy, the Times is making it a class warfare thing. The leavers "do not resemble the city as a whole", the article says: they're richer, and more likely to have a college degree, and "mostly white".
- danharaj 6y ago
  Are they wrong? No one is saying that it is unnatural or baffling that people are leaving the city, are they? What are the implications of the data they are reporting on? Do you think it's class warfare to even acknowledge that people who have better economic means have more freedom to react to the pandemic? Maybe it's class warfare that the poor bear the brunt of the damage the pandemic and quarantine have done, without means to leave, forced to work "essential jobs" to not get evicted and thus more exposed to the virus, and more vulnerable to economic disruptions.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    I think it's class warfare to acknowledge that right this second. If you see a line of refugees trickling out of a disaster zone, and your instinct is to start sorting them by race and wealth, that's not a good mindset.
KoftaBob 6y ago
I can't speak for the commenter, but it's pretty obvious lately that the major media outlets love to hit low hanging fruit like class warfare to get outrage and ad views.

brenden2 6y ago

NYT is just a clickbait factory, but so are all major media outlets. The narratives people want right now are 'rich vs. poor' and 'coronavirus scary, China bad'. It's fair to criticize them, but it's like being mad a hot dog vendor is selling hot dogs.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
It's not just a clickbait factory, it's also a major media outlet with general respect. "Top 11 reasons the coronavirus is racist (you won't BELIEVE #6)" doesn't make it to the front page of HN, so as long as the NYT does we should hold it to a higher standard.
- brenden2 6y ago
  I lost faith in all the major media outlets. I used to hold NYT in high esteem, also Bloomberg, but they have been publishing stuff that borders on nonsense lately (because it gets clicks). Unfortunately the left vs. right tribal stuff seems to override common sense for a lot of people. I still occasionally peruse these sites, but I'm also good at separating opinion from fact. "The news" is about 80% opinion these days, with a few facts sprinkled in here and there.
- greatwhitenorth 6y ago
  Retracting my comment.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    (e:retracted earlier version of this comment) You've misunderstood the point I was making, which I suspect aligns with your own views on the topic.
    - greatwhitenorth 6y ago
      I was not enraged but you're right. I see your point.

seibelj 6y ago

The NYT has a laser-focus on class and identity politics. Nearly every article is framed through that lens, and it seeps into everything the publish such as movie reviews. However, if you read the comments on articles, a lot of readers express frustration with this focus. Not sure if it matters though, their subscriber levels have been up since the change.

blaser-waffle 6y ago
Controversy sells. That's been true in NYC newspapers for years, back to the Hearst era, if not before.