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Another long-term PushBullet customer here. Anyone at Google who is listening- this kind of behavior kills my desire to continue using your products dead. I

Another long-term PushBullet customer here. Anyone at Google who is listening- this kind of behavior kills my desire to continue using your products dead. I need functionality, of the type PushBullet has provided for years, to do my work. The recent nerfing of ublock origin has already had me feeling iffy on things. Behavior like this is simply unacceptable. If you want people to use your services, you need to have some way to communicate. Period. "If you use our tools, we can kill your livelihood at any time for any reason and tough shit if you want a why" doesn't exactly inspire, you know?

nikanj 6y ago
Google is the new Microsoft. Using it is mandatory, liking it is optional.
- unknown2374 6y ago
  Using it is not mandatory, using it is convenient.
  - p2t2p 6y ago
    To me it is far less convenient. I have to establish some kind of system that makes regular backups in case google elects into banning me. With Apple ecosystem that is not a problem because every single cloud tool they have supports “download everything locally” option
ilrwbwrkhv 6y ago
Switch to Firefox. It has gotten much better.
- yorwba 6y ago
  And there's also a Pushbullet add-on for Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/pushbullet/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/pushbullet/ Not sure whether the functionality is the same.
  - ilrwbwrkhv 6y ago
    Yup, exactly the same. That's what I use. The only thing Chrome was better in the past was audio pitch correction in sped up videos. Firefox recently fixed that so now for me there is absolutely no need to use Chrome anymore.
  - pmontra 6y ago
    Thanks for the link. So it's a subset of kdeconnect/gsconnect for Linux/Android [1] [2] [3]. I'm using it to share files and tabs from my phones / tablets to my pc and viceversa. It does many other things including sms from the pc. It works with any browser or with no browser at all. There is no need for an extension. I'm sure Apple has had that too for a long time and I saw something like that from Microsoft a few days ago. [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kde.kdeconnect_tp&hl=en_US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kde.kdecon... [2] https://community.kde.org/KDEConnect https://community.kde.org/KDEConnect [3] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1319/gsconnect/ https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1319/gsconnect/
- syshum 6y ago
  While Firefox is better than Chrome... Mozilla is becoming more and more Google Like as time progresses, where a few years ago I would have believed it would be unthinkable for Mozilla do so something like this to an extension, today I am not so sure I would trust them either
  - JTbane 6y ago
    Mozilla doesn't have the conflict of interest google does with ads... That alone makes me use Firefox over Chrome.
    - msla 6y ago
      It does: https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/7/17326184/firefox-ads-sponsored-content-pocket-suggestions https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/7/17326184/firefox-ads-spons...
      - bromonkey 6y ago
        Yep, the three clicks it takes to disable that really drives me nuts.
        smnthermes 6y ago
        They should not do it in the first place. Don't be so dismissive.
    - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
      Doesn't Mozilla get nearly all its money from Google; I've assumed that actions by Mozilla have been coloured by not wanting to ditch its multi-hundred-million dollar benefactor. Google has apparently paid Mitchell Baker personally multiple millions of dollars too. Seems Google know how to manage their risks. Mozilla seem perhaps even more beholden to ad revenue than Google.
      - roca 6y ago
- laumars 6y ago
  I’m absolutely loving Firefox at the moment. I have temporary containers extension plus an extension to manage google and Facebook containers and the whole thing has become such a pleasurable experience. Combined with pihole it feels like I’m reclaiming the web back again. Such a blissful experience.
  - yellowapple 6y ago
    Yep, for me Multi-Account Containers and Tree Style Tabs are both killer features. Being able to load the same page with multiple accounts within the same browser and without losing everything after each session is a game changer for all sorts of situations, as is being able to keep dozens or even hundreds of tabs open without squeezing and squishing them unreadably into the top of the window like some kind of maniac.
    - SAI_Peregrinus 6y ago
      And with temporary containers isolation pages that don't have their own dedicated containers get all their history deleted after they close (by default a few minutes later, so undo close tab works), just as if you'd opened each new tab in an incognito window.
wlesieutre 6y ago
Chrome is a trivially easy product to switch off of compared to other Google properties like Gmail and YouTube. Have you tried Firefox recently?
- jtxx 6y ago
  ProtonMail has come a long way as a replacement for Gmail as well. Suuuper happy with them, they're really responsive to feature requests and support inquiries. I requested for an iOS feature to choose browsers so I could open all links from PM in Firefox. They had it implemented in a month or something... it a quick fix but that impressed me. hence me shilling here They recently added ProtonCalendar too.
  - bcrosby95 6y ago
    Switching email isn't nearly as friction-free as switching your browser. Not only do you have to change your email in every service you've registered for, you also need to convince your friends and other contacts to use the new email.
    - theshrike79 6y ago
      It's a year-long project in the minimum: 1: Start up new email (for me it was Fastmail) and preferably get your own domain 2: Forward all mail from gmail to your new account 3: Create a rule that flags messages that are still delivered to gmail, go through them at your leisure and swap to the new address
      - kadoban 6y ago
        I'd stress the "get your own domain" part. This is a _requirement_, or you're going to be going through the same pain again in a few years. Also, make sure you take backups of your old emails every once in a while. Google Checkout should be able to provide those.
        colejohnson66 6y ago
graham_paul 6y ago
elaborate on the ublock nerfing?
- AaronFriel 6y ago
  Chrome's Extension v3 API will remove the ability for uBlock Origin to filter web requests in code, instead the application will have to submit a list of URLs to filter to an internal API and this list has a maximum size and limits the flexibility of the URL filtering. See the uBlock Origin author's post: https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338#issuecomment-496009417 https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338#iss... This is ironic, because uBlock implements an extremely efficient filter and is even looking into using WASM to speed it up even more. Google's public position is that implementing functionality in JS or WASM is unacceptably slow. They say "[Preventing or weakening ad blockers] is absolutely not the goal. In fact, this change is meant to give developers a way to create safer and more performant ad blockers."[1] Google's public position is also that WASM is "consistently fast"[2], fast enough to rewrite Google Earth to target it[3], and "It's entirely feasible to build a complex code-base to run performantly in the browser using WebAssembly"[4]. So which is it? Is the Web Request API being deprecated because it's not possible to write performant code in extensions using Chrome's powerful JS and WASM engine, or is it possible but there might be some other, different reason that they're blocking it? [1] https://blog.chromium.org/2019/06/web-request-and-declarative-net-request.html https://blog.chromium.org/2019/06/web-request-and-declarativ... [2] https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2019/02/hotpath-with-wasm https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2019/02/hotpath-wi... [3] https://blog.chromium.org/2019/06/webassembly-brings-google-earth-to-more.html https://blog.chromium.org/2019/06/webassembly-brings-google-... [4] https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2018/08/wasm-av1#future_work_and_takeaways https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2018/08/wasm-av1#f...
  - jaywalk 6y ago
    > In fact, this change is meant to give developers a way to create safer and more performant ad blockers. Imagine anyone actually believing Google is trying to help ad blockers. What a dumb thing for them to even say.
the_af 6y ago
> The recent nerfing of ublock origin has already had me feeling iffy on things. What did they do to ublock origin? The single best Chrome extension ever. If it stops working and I must suffer YouTube ads again, it's bye bye Chrome.
- pixelHD 6y ago
  I'm assuming this [0] is what the commenters are referring to. Google is proposing changing web request api, which can break how ublock origin works. Also, this [1] happened. [0]: https://www.xda-developers.com/google-chrome-manifest-v3-ad-blocker-extension-api/ https://www.xda-developers.com/google-chrome-manifest-v3-ad-... [1]: https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/745 https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/745
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- AaronFriel 6y ago
  Context and receipts are here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23170485 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23170485
- input_sh 6y ago
  They're going down the Safari line of limiting the number of rules an extension can use, significantly reducing the efficiency of adblockers. If it goes as planned, you won't see ads on YouTube for sure, but there likely won't be enough space to add rules for less mainstream ad networks and some of the specific sites you visit.
  - hendersoon 6y ago
    It's a lot more than just limiting the count; expanding the count would not offer equivalent functionality. Basically they're hobbling adblockers' ability to compete in the arms race, which makes sense as Google is an advertising company.
icheishvili 6y ago
I whole-heartedly agree and this is why I give money to AWS and Azure will not give any to GCP until the lack of transparency and random product killings stop.
Shorel 6y ago
So many people claim for change, but so few migrate to Firefox, DuckDuckGo, or another alternative.
cft 6y ago
I switched to Firefox because of Google banning Bypass Paywalls extension that is available as a Firefox add-on. When I was building my bootstraped company, Google really taunted us with emails like this, when our AdSense monthly earnings reached $10,000 and we're my only source of income. We had 20 million user profile pages, and they were saying that something is wrong with some of them, without saying what, forcing us to "review" them all. We built sophisticated ML content filters, to receive more unspecified warnings and get the account shut down. I managed to reinstate the account, but it left a very evil taste. I am in the process of degoogling, using Bing as the default in Firefox.
megablast 6y ago
You should have stopped using chrome years ago. What will it take for you to wake up?
- Baeocystin 6y ago
  It's not about just me. I use a half-dozen different browsers during my work day. It's how the provider of the world's dominant browser is behaving, with ramifications that affect all of us.
gumby 6y ago
> I need functionality, of the type PushBullet has provided for years, to do my work. If you can use the Apple stack this functionality has been built in for years and is pretty robust. Just FYI as you say the functionality is needed — I know this won’t help if you can’t switch to Apple
irrational 6y ago
They blocked ublock origin?! Really?! What was their stated rationale (I assume they didn’t admit it is because they want people not to block ads)? Might I suggest using Firefox? I use it and don’t have any trouble with it.
- gowld 6y ago
  It's not true.
ChuckMcM 6y ago
It would be interesting to hear Google's actual reasoning but I don't expect that we will. I will speculate that it is exactly the clipboard permissions as there have been apocryphal reports of Android apps and web extensions that use this to steal passwords that password managers put there for users to "paste" into their pages. If that is the case, then a much better solution would be for Chrome to implement a secure channel for password managers to use for just that purpose and make access really really explicit. But again, without them saying anything we won't know. My advice is to watch for a CVE regarding sniffing sensitive data off the clipboard to surface in the next 30 - 90 days.
Aperocky 6y ago
> this kind of behavior kills my desire to continue using your products dead Having already moved to firefox for over a year since quantum came out, what are you waiting for?
boredgamer2 6y ago
If you haven't switched to Firefox, you should! There were a few things I didn't like at first, but after searching StackOverflow and blog posts for how to change the settings, I am now fairly happy!
farooge 6y ago
(old dude here) I knew this attitude was coming when i saw the billboards recruiting PhD's back in 2008 (or so). I figured they'd be completely infected by arrogant (but clever) twats around 2015. i believe my guess proved to be true and it's been getting worse ever since. also, the fact that their (organic) search is so awesome also-also that they were allowed to buy Waze, ffs, get out of my life!.
moneywoes 6y ago
Can you elaborate on the ublock origin nerf?
nicolasbistolfi 6y ago
I've been using PushBullet for years. Great product! It's not fair what big companies are doing to what it seems to be, prioritizing their own features over third party well-built products. It's abusive.

nikanj 6y ago

Google is the new Microsoft. Using it is mandatory, liking it is optional.

unknown2374 6y ago
Using it is not mandatory, using it is convenient.
- p2t2p 6y ago
  To me it is far less convenient. I have to establish some kind of system that makes regular backups in case google elects into banning me. With Apple ecosystem that is not a problem because every single cloud tool they have supports “download everything locally” option

ilrwbwrkhv 6y ago

Switch to Firefox. It has gotten much better.

yorwba 6y ago
And there's also a Pushbullet add-on for Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/pushbullet/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/pushbullet/ Not sure whether the functionality is the same.
- ilrwbwrkhv 6y ago
  Yup, exactly the same. That's what I use. The only thing Chrome was better in the past was audio pitch correction in sped up videos. Firefox recently fixed that so now for me there is absolutely no need to use Chrome anymore.
- pmontra 6y ago
  Thanks for the link. So it's a subset of kdeconnect/gsconnect for Linux/Android [1] [2] [3]. I'm using it to share files and tabs from my phones / tablets to my pc and viceversa. It does many other things including sms from the pc. It works with any browser or with no browser at all. There is no need for an extension. I'm sure Apple has had that too for a long time and I saw something like that from Microsoft a few days ago. [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kde.kdeconnect_tp&hl=en_US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kde.kdecon... [2] https://community.kde.org/KDEConnect https://community.kde.org/KDEConnect [3] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1319/gsconnect/ https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1319/gsconnect/
syshum 6y ago
While Firefox is better than Chrome... Mozilla is becoming more and more Google Like as time progresses, where a few years ago I would have believed it would be unthinkable for Mozilla do so something like this to an extension, today I am not so sure I would trust them either
- JTbane 6y ago
  Mozilla doesn't have the conflict of interest google does with ads... That alone makes me use Firefox over Chrome.
  - msla 6y ago
    It does: https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/7/17326184/firefox-ads-sponsored-content-pocket-suggestions https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/7/17326184/firefox-ads-spons...
    - bromonkey 6y ago
      Yep, the three clicks it takes to disable that really drives me nuts.
      - smnthermes 6y ago
        They should not do it in the first place. Don't be so dismissive.
  - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
    Doesn't Mozilla get nearly all its money from Google; I've assumed that actions by Mozilla have been coloured by not wanting to ditch its multi-hundred-million dollar benefactor. Google has apparently paid Mitchell Baker personally multiple millions of dollars too. Seems Google know how to manage their risks. Mozilla seem perhaps even more beholden to ad revenue than Google.
    - roca 6y ago
laumars 6y ago
I’m absolutely loving Firefox at the moment. I have temporary containers extension plus an extension to manage google and Facebook containers and the whole thing has become such a pleasurable experience. Combined with pihole it feels like I’m reclaiming the web back again. Such a blissful experience.
- yellowapple 6y ago
  Yep, for me Multi-Account Containers and Tree Style Tabs are both killer features. Being able to load the same page with multiple accounts within the same browser and without losing everything after each session is a game changer for all sorts of situations, as is being able to keep dozens or even hundreds of tabs open without squeezing and squishing them unreadably into the top of the window like some kind of maniac.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 6y ago
    And with temporary containers isolation pages that don't have their own dedicated containers get all their history deleted after they close (by default a few minutes later, so undo close tab works), just as if you'd opened each new tab in an incognito window.

wlesieutre 6y ago

Chrome is a trivially easy product to switch off of compared to other Google properties like Gmail and YouTube. Have you tried Firefox recently?

jtxx 6y ago
ProtonMail has come a long way as a replacement for Gmail as well. Suuuper happy with them, they're really responsive to feature requests and support inquiries. I requested for an iOS feature to choose browsers so I could open all links from PM in Firefox. They had it implemented in a month or something... it a quick fix but that impressed me. hence me shilling here They recently added ProtonCalendar too.
- bcrosby95 6y ago
  Switching email isn't nearly as friction-free as switching your browser. Not only do you have to change your email in every service you've registered for, you also need to convince your friends and other contacts to use the new email.
  - theshrike79 6y ago
    It's a year-long project in the minimum: 1: Start up new email (for me it was Fastmail) and preferably get your own domain 2: Forward all mail from gmail to your new account 3: Create a rule that flags messages that are still delivered to gmail, go through them at your leisure and swap to the new address
    - kadoban 6y ago
      I'd stress the "get your own domain" part. This is a _requirement_, or you're going to be going through the same pain again in a few years. Also, make sure you take backups of your old emails every once in a while. Google Checkout should be able to provide those.
      - colejohnson66 6y ago

graham_paul 6y ago

elaborate on the ublock nerfing?

AaronFriel 6y ago
Chrome's Extension v3 API will remove the ability for uBlock Origin to filter web requests in code, instead the application will have to submit a list of URLs to filter to an internal API and this list has a maximum size and limits the flexibility of the URL filtering. See the uBlock Origin author's post: https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338#issuecomment-496009417 https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338#iss... This is ironic, because uBlock implements an extremely efficient filter and is even looking into using WASM to speed it up even more. Google's public position is that implementing functionality in JS or WASM is unacceptably slow. They say "[Preventing or weakening ad blockers] is absolutely not the goal. In fact, this change is meant to give developers a way to create safer and more performant ad blockers."[1] Google's public position is also that WASM is "consistently fast"[2], fast enough to rewrite Google Earth to target it[3], and "It's entirely feasible to build a complex code-base to run performantly in the browser using WebAssembly"[4]. So which is it? Is the Web Request API being deprecated because it's not possible to write performant code in extensions using Chrome's powerful JS and WASM engine, or is it possible but there might be some other, different reason that they're blocking it? [1] https://blog.chromium.org/2019/06/web-request-and-declarative-net-request.html https://blog.chromium.org/2019/06/web-request-and-declarativ... [2] https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2019/02/hotpath-with-wasm https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2019/02/hotpath-wi... [3] https://blog.chromium.org/2019/06/webassembly-brings-google-earth-to-more.html https://blog.chromium.org/2019/06/webassembly-brings-google-... [4] https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2018/08/wasm-av1#future_work_and_takeaways https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2018/08/wasm-av1#f...
- jaywalk 6y ago
  > In fact, this change is meant to give developers a way to create safer and more performant ad blockers. Imagine anyone actually believing Google is trying to help ad blockers. What a dumb thing for them to even say.

the_af 6y ago

> The recent nerfing of ublock origin has already had me feeling iffy on things. What did they do to ublock origin? The single best Chrome extension ever. If it stops working and I must suffer YouTube ads again, it's bye bye Chrome.

pixelHD 6y ago
I'm assuming this [0] is what the commenters are referring to. Google is proposing changing web request api, which can break how ublock origin works. Also, this [1] happened. [0]: https://www.xda-developers.com/google-chrome-manifest-v3-ad-blocker-extension-api/ https://www.xda-developers.com/google-chrome-manifest-v3-ad-... [1]: https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/745 https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/745
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
AaronFriel 6y ago
Context and receipts are here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23170485 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23170485
input_sh 6y ago
They're going down the Safari line of limiting the number of rules an extension can use, significantly reducing the efficiency of adblockers. If it goes as planned, you won't see ads on YouTube for sure, but there likely won't be enough space to add rules for less mainstream ad networks and some of the specific sites you visit.
- hendersoon 6y ago
  It's a lot more than just limiting the count; expanding the count would not offer equivalent functionality. Basically they're hobbling adblockers' ability to compete in the arms race, which makes sense as Google is an advertising company.

icheishvili 6y ago

I whole-heartedly agree and this is why I give money to AWS and Azure will not give any to GCP until the lack of transparency and random product killings stop.

Shorel 6y ago

So many people claim for change, but so few migrate to Firefox, DuckDuckGo, or another alternative.

cft 6y ago

I switched to Firefox because of Google banning Bypass Paywalls extension that is available as a Firefox add-on. When I was building my bootstraped company, Google really taunted us with emails like this, when our AdSense monthly earnings reached $10,000 and we're my only source of income. We had 20 million user profile pages, and they were saying that something is wrong with some of them, without saying what, forcing us to "review" them all. We built sophisticated ML content filters, to receive more unspecified warnings and get the account shut down. I managed to reinstate the account, but it left a very evil taste. I am in the process of degoogling, using Bing as the default in Firefox.

megablast 6y ago

You should have stopped using chrome years ago. What will it take for you to wake up?

Baeocystin 6y ago
It's not about just me. I use a half-dozen different browsers during my work day. It's how the provider of the world's dominant browser is behaving, with ramifications that affect all of us.

gumby 6y ago

> I need functionality, of the type PushBullet has provided for years, to do my work. If you can use the Apple stack this functionality has been built in for years and is pretty robust. Just FYI as you say the functionality is needed — I know this won’t help if you can’t switch to Apple

irrational 6y ago

They blocked ublock origin?! Really?! What was their stated rationale (I assume they didn’t admit it is because they want people not to block ads)? Might I suggest using Firefox? I use it and don’t have any trouble with it.

gowld 6y ago
It's not true.

ChuckMcM 6y ago

It would be interesting to hear Google's actual reasoning but I don't expect that we will. I will speculate that it is exactly the clipboard permissions as there have been apocryphal reports of Android apps and web extensions that use this to steal passwords that password managers put there for users to "paste" into their pages. If that is the case, then a much better solution would be for Chrome to implement a secure channel for password managers to use for just that purpose and make access really really explicit. But again, without them saying anything we won't know. My advice is to watch for a CVE regarding sniffing sensitive data off the clipboard to surface in the next 30 - 90 days.

Aperocky 6y ago

> this kind of behavior kills my desire to continue using your products dead Having already moved to firefox for over a year since quantum came out, what are you waiting for?

boredgamer2 6y ago

If you haven't switched to Firefox, you should! There were a few things I didn't like at first, but after searching StackOverflow and blog posts for how to change the settings, I am now fairly happy!

farooge 6y ago

(old dude here) I knew this attitude was coming when i saw the billboards recruiting PhD's back in 2008 (or so). I figured they'd be completely infected by arrogant (but clever) twats around 2015. i believe my guess proved to be true and it's been getting worse ever since. also, the fact that their (organic) search is so awesome also-also that they were allowed to buy Waze, ffs, get out of my life!.

moneywoes 6y ago

Can you elaborate on the ublock origin nerf?

nicolasbistolfi 6y ago

I've been using PushBullet for years. Great product! It's not fair what big companies are doing to what it seems to be, prioritizing their own features over third party well-built products. It's abusive.