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> I always argue caution about revolution to help the poor, as there are plenty of examples where revolution killed as many poor people as it did aristocrats.
by Supermancho 7y ago
> I always argue caution about revolution to help the poor, as there are plenty of examples where revolution killed as many poor people as it did aristocrats.
Std pareto curve. population of 100. 10 are aristocratic. 90 lower class. if you net equal losses, population 80 and you have increased equality. This is a simplification.
- SpicyLemonZest 7y agoRight, but they didn't net equal losses. The vast majority of people killed in the French Revolution were from the Third Estate.
- Supermancho 7y agoIt doesnt have to be equal, just outside the existing curve. Again, conceptually, 1:9 from 100 is an improvement for some abstract measure of equality.
- BobbyJo 7y agoGiven the fact that everyone ended up worse off after, this is kind of a pointless thing to attempt to point out.
- OldFatCactus 7y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution#Long-term_impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution#Long-term_im... Just skimming this, it seems the french and the entire world was left better-off actually
- BobbyJo 7y agoFair enough, but I think we could both agree that the revolution was only beneficial because it changed the old system into something more malleable and predictable. The throne is an unstable thing, as is the man in it, and only subject to change on unpredictable whims. If you already exist in a system that is pliable, like a democracy, revolution really wouldn't bring you any of the benefits the French revolution did in the centuries that followed. You'd really only get the downsides. Let's not forget the context of the conversation here an talk about completely different circumstances.
- OldFatCactus 7y agoI don't follow what you mean about context, you brought up a bad example and you're moving goal-posts. There have been numerous revolutions with positive benefits to the world at large as well as to the society/culture in which they took place. I would chance to say that the majority were net-positive. If you find yourself scared of revolution, you should maybe take an introspective moment and ponder why the poor and downtrodden of the world (or just in your own country) would consider you their enemy.
- BobbyJo 7y agoI'm pointing out that the long-term gain from a revolution is not a by product of the revolution itself, but from the pre and post conditions. The revolution was necessary to effect those changes, but it was the difference in condition that lead to the benefit. Unless you are planning to massively alter the political (IE not have a democracy anymore) or economic system (IE not have capitalism anymore), a revolution does more harm than good, because you are only getting the short-term byproducts which are predominately bad. If the political and economic system remains largely the same, then a revolution is just a period of time where people are committing violence or protesting instead of making things.