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So Musk tweeted "If anyone is arrested, I ask that it only be me," but that really doesn't seem reasonable (and is super arrogant). If I pressure some friends i

So Musk tweeted "If anyone is arrested, I ask that it only be me," but that really doesn't seem reasonable (and is super arrogant). If I pressure some friends into committing a crime, they are still culpable. Assuming wikipedia's accurate [0], duress is only a valid excuse if someone's threatening you with serious bodily harm or death. 'I would like you all to commit crimes, and I ask the government to not hold you responsible,' is so arrogant. He doesn't get to dictate how the law works. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duress_in_American_law#Requirements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duress_in_American_law#Require...

astronautjones 6y ago
"atlas shrugged, performatively"
- fatbird 6y ago
  This is beautiful.
- bpodgursky 6y ago
  Perforative shrugging would be shutting down production for a week, just to show the impact, but restarting before any damage was done. Elon is, by the book, refusing to shrug.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    Depends on what you think he’s performatively shrugging about, profits or risks to his workers. The context makes it pretty clear that they were talking about legal risks to the workers, while you’re referencing profits.
- krick 6y ago
  I know that I must be missing a great joke here, so can somebody be so kind to translate this post for me?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - typon 6y ago
    It's a reference to Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugged. It's sort of a libertarian bible. The Atlas in that book title refers to people like Elon Musk (industrialists, capitalists etc.) who want to carry the weight of the world on their shoulders (like the Greek Titan Atlas), but can't because of terrible government policies. So they "shrug" it off. OP is suggesting that Musk is doing the same thing, but performatively, in other words he's pretending to be super concerned with "getting back to work" but really he cares about making profits
    - richardbrevig 6y ago
      Is this response not accurate? I'm familiar with the book by title only, really. I've read The Fountainhead. Could someone downvoting typon please provide a better explanation?
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        That book elicits extremely strong feelings on both sides of the economic spectrum, expect a lot of poorly explained downvoting from here on downward.
    - utopcell 6y ago
      Not sure why this is getting downvoted, this seems like a good description of the book reference.
      - alexpetralia 6y ago
        For some reason coronavirus threads attract the downvote brigades. It is a very inflammatory issue.
      - throwlaplace 6y ago
        >Not sure why this is getting downvoted because people are defensive when their own character flaws are reflected back at them.
vkou 6y ago
No need to arrest anyone, just take the factory.
Aeolun 6y ago
If your life and wellbeing are dependent on your job, he might as well be threatening them.
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 6y ago
  Then you can make the same argument for opening up, since a business will become insolvent if left closed indefinitely and we're back into the same situation (unemployment).
- gameswithgo 6y ago
  the jobs ends if you can’t open. the job ends if you refuse to go to work too. same result either way, which is why many of these businesses are not as awful as they seem.
  - momokoko 6y ago
    Tesla is not going to have to permanently close that plant due to a few months of shutdown. That is like saying if the Bay Area had another 1989 magnitude earthquake, Tesla would go out of business. Tesla is not even reasonably similar to many businesses that are truly at risk of never opening again. And to make this comparison is insulting to the hardworking business owners and employees that are in industries that will see massive amounts of bankruptcies in the coming year.
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    I’m not saying they shouldn’t open. But forcing your employees to come to work when it’s illegal to do so was what we were talking about.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  If threats to economic well being counted as a bodily threat, US labor laws would look very different than they do today.
fasteddie31003 6y ago
Those factory workers are going to be in a lot more duress if the factory does not open or eventually moves to another state.
- krick 6y ago
  That is true about every factory, restaurant or any other business. Government has decided here, that it knows better (which I, FWIW, don't think is true, but it's besides the point), so people shouldn't and cannot choose for themselves how to act. So if anyone else must follow the law, how is it that Musk gets to choose? I know that the answer is "because he is famous". But should it be like that, really?
- koheripbal 6y ago
  Frankly - the fact that they are even having this fight should be enough reason to move the factory to a less dogmatic town. You cannot run a business if the local government is happy to put you out of business.
- mratzloff 6y ago
  You mean if they have to wait until May 18, which is what was negotiated before Musk had a public tantrum?
BrainInAJar 6y ago
> If I pressure some friends into committing a crime These aren't elon's friends. They're employees. There is a huge power dynamic
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

astronautjones 6y ago

"atlas shrugged, performatively"

fatbird 6y ago
This is beautiful.
bpodgursky 6y ago
Perforative shrugging would be shutting down production for a week, just to show the impact, but restarting before any damage was done. Elon is, by the book, refusing to shrug.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Depends on what you think he’s performatively shrugging about, profits or risks to his workers. The context makes it pretty clear that they were talking about legal risks to the workers, while you’re referencing profits.
krick 6y ago
I know that I must be missing a great joke here, so can somebody be so kind to translate this post for me?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- typon 6y ago
  It's a reference to Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugged. It's sort of a libertarian bible. The Atlas in that book title refers to people like Elon Musk (industrialists, capitalists etc.) who want to carry the weight of the world on their shoulders (like the Greek Titan Atlas), but can't because of terrible government policies. So they "shrug" it off. OP is suggesting that Musk is doing the same thing, but performatively, in other words he's pretending to be super concerned with "getting back to work" but really he cares about making profits
  - richardbrevig 6y ago
    Is this response not accurate? I'm familiar with the book by title only, really. I've read The Fountainhead. Could someone downvoting typon please provide a better explanation?
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      That book elicits extremely strong feelings on both sides of the economic spectrum, expect a lot of poorly explained downvoting from here on downward.
  - utopcell 6y ago
    Not sure why this is getting downvoted, this seems like a good description of the book reference.
    - alexpetralia 6y ago
      For some reason coronavirus threads attract the downvote brigades. It is a very inflammatory issue.
    - throwlaplace 6y ago
      >Not sure why this is getting downvoted because people are defensive when their own character flaws are reflected back at them.

vkou 6y ago

No need to arrest anyone, just take the factory.

Aeolun 6y ago

If your life and wellbeing are dependent on your job, he might as well be threatening them.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 6y ago
Then you can make the same argument for opening up, since a business will become insolvent if left closed indefinitely and we're back into the same situation (unemployment).
gameswithgo 6y ago
the jobs ends if you can’t open. the job ends if you refuse to go to work too. same result either way, which is why many of these businesses are not as awful as they seem.
- momokoko 6y ago
  Tesla is not going to have to permanently close that plant due to a few months of shutdown. That is like saying if the Bay Area had another 1989 magnitude earthquake, Tesla would go out of business. Tesla is not even reasonably similar to many businesses that are truly at risk of never opening again. And to make this comparison is insulting to the hardworking business owners and employees that are in industries that will see massive amounts of bankruptcies in the coming year.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  I’m not saying they shouldn’t open. But forcing your employees to come to work when it’s illegal to do so was what we were talking about.
ashtonkem 6y ago
If threats to economic well being counted as a bodily threat, US labor laws would look very different than they do today.

fasteddie31003 6y ago

Those factory workers are going to be in a lot more duress if the factory does not open or eventually moves to another state.

krick 6y ago
That is true about every factory, restaurant or any other business. Government has decided here, that it knows better (which I, FWIW, don't think is true, but it's besides the point), so people shouldn't and cannot choose for themselves how to act. So if anyone else must follow the law, how is it that Musk gets to choose? I know that the answer is "because he is famous". But should it be like that, really?
koheripbal 6y ago
Frankly - the fact that they are even having this fight should be enough reason to move the factory to a less dogmatic town. You cannot run a business if the local government is happy to put you out of business.
mratzloff 6y ago
You mean if they have to wait until May 18, which is what was negotiated before Musk had a public tantrum?

BrainInAJar 6y ago

> If I pressure some friends into committing a crime These aren't elon's friends. They're employees. There is a huge power dynamic

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]