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There's a gap between those folks, though, and the median household which earns $63,000 a year but has almost no savings or stock holdings. The median househol

There's a gap between those folks, though, and the median household which earns $63,000 a year but has almost no savings or stock holdings. The median household wealth is $100,000 and that's almost all housing.

elros 6y ago
Well, you can't live inside stock certificates :-)
kitotik 6y ago
Sorry I’m not sure I understand the point you are making. Most models have the numbers of Americans living in poverty or lower class as above 50% of the US population. It’s unlikely if even what they term “lower-middle class” owns real estate.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Any model describing the median American as “lower class” is being unreasonable. Most Americans - not all, but most - live a comfortable life.
  - kitotik 6y ago
    Citation needed. “Comfortable” is obviously subjective, but the discussion was around ownership of stocks. Even these[0] models have it at >=50% and they are at least 15 years old, and disparity has only increased since then. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta...
  - karatestomp 6y ago
    One annual out-of-pocket max (broken arm, bad fall, car wreck, appendicitis, pregnancy) away from having your financial plans disrupted for a couple years isn’t comfortable. One of those plus any one other problem at the same time from severe financial distress (maybe lose home, maybe bankruptcy) isn’t comfortable. No matter how many x-boxes you have.
tathougies 6y ago
> , and the median household which earns $63,000 a year but has almost no savings or stock holdings. The median household wealth is $100,000 and that's almost all housing. Given that stock ownership is about 55% of the public, the median household likely has at least a few shares. https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-owns-stock.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-own...
- kitotik 6y ago
  That includes 401k and IRAs etc. which obviously very few living outside of middle class have. In addition, stock ownership has been on steady decline for everyone but the upper middle class.
  - tathougies 6y ago
    Well you're not wrong on the overall trend over the past twenty years, but over the past four or five, the rate has been trending upward. Most of the downward movement was during the recession, for which it's not obvious that the reason ownership went down is not mainly panic selling (i.e., individual choice and risk tolerance) instead of anything systemic.
refurb 6y ago
I know plenty of middle class people who stay away from stocks - they don't understand them and view them as very risky investments. They stick with bonds and such.
- icedchai 6y ago
  The sad truth is many folks are afraid of investing. Much of the financial services industry is built off this. How many financial advisor offices do you see around? Instead of educating themselves, they'd rather pay a "professional" who often does no better than they'd do themselves if they just stuck to simple index funds.
- chii 6y ago
  > they don't understand them and view them as very risky investments. which is a shame. Stocks (or owning businesses in general) is the real way to get out of the rat race. I wish that financial education is part of the standard school curriculum. Financial education such as what stocks are, what bonds are, and how do you "save" money and budget, and what it means to invest and what risks "mean" etc Most people are scared of stocks because they think it's "risky" - they'll lose all their money if the company bankrupts. While that's true, the other factors not considered is inflation risk (of bonds or, of bank savings account). The risk of not investing for the long term is just as bad.

elros 6y ago

Well, you can't live inside stock certificates :-)

kitotik 6y ago

Sorry I’m not sure I understand the point you are making. Most models have the numbers of Americans living in poverty or lower class as above 50% of the US population. It’s unlikely if even what they term “lower-middle class” owns real estate.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Any model describing the median American as “lower class” is being unreasonable. Most Americans - not all, but most - live a comfortable life.
- kitotik 6y ago
  Citation needed. “Comfortable” is obviously subjective, but the discussion was around ownership of stocks. Even these[0] models have it at >=50% and they are at least 15 years old, and disparity has only increased since then. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta...
- karatestomp 6y ago
  One annual out-of-pocket max (broken arm, bad fall, car wreck, appendicitis, pregnancy) away from having your financial plans disrupted for a couple years isn’t comfortable. One of those plus any one other problem at the same time from severe financial distress (maybe lose home, maybe bankruptcy) isn’t comfortable. No matter how many x-boxes you have.

tathougies 6y ago

> , and the median household which earns $63,000 a year but has almost no savings or stock holdings. The median household wealth is $100,000 and that's almost all housing. Given that stock ownership is about 55% of the public, the median household likely has at least a few shares. https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-owns-stock.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-own...

kitotik 6y ago
That includes 401k and IRAs etc. which obviously very few living outside of middle class have. In addition, stock ownership has been on steady decline for everyone but the upper middle class.
- tathougies 6y ago
  Well you're not wrong on the overall trend over the past twenty years, but over the past four or five, the rate has been trending upward. Most of the downward movement was during the recession, for which it's not obvious that the reason ownership went down is not mainly panic selling (i.e., individual choice and risk tolerance) instead of anything systemic.

refurb 6y ago

I know plenty of middle class people who stay away from stocks - they don't understand them and view them as very risky investments. They stick with bonds and such.

icedchai 6y ago
The sad truth is many folks are afraid of investing. Much of the financial services industry is built off this. How many financial advisor offices do you see around? Instead of educating themselves, they'd rather pay a "professional" who often does no better than they'd do themselves if they just stuck to simple index funds.
chii 6y ago
> they don't understand them and view them as very risky investments. which is a shame. Stocks (or owning businesses in general) is the real way to get out of the rat race. I wish that financial education is part of the standard school curriculum. Financial education such as what stocks are, what bonds are, and how do you "save" money and budget, and what it means to invest and what risks "mean" etc Most people are scared of stocks because they think it's "risky" - they'll lose all their money if the company bankrupts. While that's true, the other factors not considered is inflation risk (of bonds or, of bank savings account). The risk of not investing for the long term is just as bad.