11 ms·

Flight Attendants and Covid-19

100 points by imartin2k 6y ago

checker659 6y ago
> The days of carefree travel are long gone. I've been digging up videos of people from the early 1920s and I see very little impact of the Spanish Flu on people's mannerisms even just within a year or two after (like no masks in the streets even though mask wearing was apparently a big thing during the pandemic). Just the other day, I was reading up on Charlie Chaplin. Looking at his filmography, I noticed a a gap of just 1 year (between "A Day's Pleasure" released Dec 1919 and "The Kid" released Feb 2021) which is when the pandemic would've been raging across the land. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Chaplin_filmography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Chaplin_filmography) So, while I certainly watch in horror at what is happening with COVID-19 and how the whole world has come to a standstill, if history is to be believed, we'll bounce back faster than we suspect. Not tomorrow, maybe not even within the next six months, but very likely within a year I think we'll be back in full force.
- ekianjo 6y ago
  > Within a year after a vaccine becomes available, We have never successfully developed a vaccine for a coronavirus before. And even if it's proven to be feasible, it will be unlikely to be very practical (are we going to manufacture billions of doses? How long will it take? Won't there be some kind of herd immunity by then?) and there are also indicators that such vaccines would not be effective beyond 6 months or so. The more I hear about a vaccine for this coronavirus, the less it seems like the true solution for this crisis.
  - walterbell 6y ago
    Vaccines are unlikely to work or be scalable, though that won't stop companies from trying. More practically, repurposing widely available low-cost therapeutics, combined with early treatment, have proven effective in many cases. When not detected and treated early, expensive drugs may be necessary for treatment.
    - rootusrootus 6y ago
      > Vaccines are unlikely to work or be scalable Can you back that up with some kind of science? There are >100 in development and several are done with phase 1. Hell, one is already entering production in anticipation of final approval later this year. Short term, we'll probably rely heavily on plasma.
      - walterbell 6y ago
        Zero vaccines in the entire history of coronaviruses. For the well-known reason that the viruses mutate, so a vaccine against seasonal variant A does not work against new variant B.
        rootusrootus 6y ago
        This is a common misconception. Viruses mutate, sure, but most do not mutate very quickly or very much. This includes coronaviruses. Influenza, on the other hand, mutates at a prodigious rate in meaningful ways. The reason we don't have vaccines against any coronaviruses is because there aren't very many that infect humans and all of them other than SC2 are so mild it isn't worth spending the effort to eradicate them.
        ekianjo 6y ago
        > The reason we don't have vaccines against any coronaviruses Coronaviruses affect animals too, and yet we haven't been able to develop vaccines against them. And yes, there are vaccines for many other infections for animals.
  - icegreentea2 6y ago
    Where did you get the 6 month figure from? It's true we really don't know how things will pan out long term, but we know that there are lot's of possibilities that all work out to something that's not awful in the long term. For example, we already produce and distribute an annual vaccine on the scale of billions (the flu). The flu also has tampering effectiveness on a pretty short time scale. The flu vaccine is also not 100% effective. And despite all of those short comings, we're able to mitigate flu into something that people literally use as the low bar for infectious diseases in terms of spread and severity. I think you're right that the vaccine is unlikely to let us eradicate coronavirus, but it'll let us get back to a new normal - one that isn't fundamentally different from our old normal (at least from a health perspective - who knows what happens at a societal or policy level).
    - fpoling 6y ago
      The flu vaccine efficiency is rather low, between 19% and 60% depending on the year, https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectiveness-studies.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectiveness-studies.... But what is interesting is that the current lockdown in Norway killed the flu with season ending abruptly.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        That's not surprising! The lockdown is a general-purpose counter to droplet/airborne-communicable diseases, it's not done for seasonal flu because the cost is seen as disproportionate to the known benefit. Stopping other communicable diseases is an expected side effect of the COVID-19 lockdowns.
      - nradov 6y ago
        Those percentages don't tell the whole story. Even when the vaccine doesn't match the circulating strains closely enough to prevent infection, it typically mitigates symptom severity at least a little. For some patients that can be the difference between life and death.
- Zigurd 6y ago
  There are several simultaneous misperceptions I see: First, noted in the article, is a false sense of security. If the Secret Service in the White House can have an outbreak, any workplace can have an outbreak. The pandemic has yet to hit large swathes of the planet, but it will probably do so before a vaccine is available. This is really, really bad, and will be until there is some substantial change. Third is a sense of false optimism: There is one antiviral that has been tested to have a significant but relatively modest effect on recovery time, and that may reduce risk of death by an as yet unknown amount. Other than that, no confirmed breakthroughs in treatment. Nothing that sharply reduces risk of death or duration and severity of illness. In other words, the risks are almost the same as on day one. Why does anyone thing a lockdown can be lifted with a price in terms of many tens of thousands of lives just in the US? Lastly, there is a sense that we will be in a permanent pandemic. As the above comment points out, the direct impact will be felt for one or two years. There will be permanent changes, perhaps as a result of the realization that access to health care is key to minimizing pandemics. Perhaps infectious disease surveillance will rise in importance. But the economy will resume. Un-parking airplanes will happen. Humans want to travel. Businesses may realize that business travel can be cut down. Schools may realize distance learning can work. But I see no reason why discretionary travel would not resume and grow. I see no reason why in-person social mingling would not resume, maybe with a bang, as people celebrate being vaccinated.
  - Saaster 6y ago
    If business travel is reduced, you can expect the cost of regular coach class tickets to increase massively as the former pays for the flight and the latter is just there to wring a bit more profit out of the trip. Business travel right now is non-existent and many companies are finding that things still work just fine without it and will not return to previous spend levels.
    - ec109685 6y ago
      Tickets to leisure destinations are not out of line from flights on business routes, so I don’t think it’s right to say airplanes can’t fly profitably without business travelers footing the bill.
- citrin_ru 6y ago
  I hope that travel will be a norm again, but what have changed since 1920s - nowadays practically zero risk during air travel is a baseline expectation. It looks like the last couple of generations are much more risk averse than any previous generation.
umvi 6y ago
Since hospitals are practically empty right now, have we thought of allowing people to voluntarily get infected/quarantined (using a tiny viral load)? Obviously no old, immuno-compromised, or other vulnerable people. But for healthy "essential" workers it would mean not living in fear that they might get it... because they already got over it.
- quickthrowman 6y ago
  I doubt the legal department of the hospital would allow such a thing
- chdaniel 6y ago
  Genuine question: why are hospitals empty? Aren't people affected by covid taken there?
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Severe covid cases are, but in most areas that's not enough to fill the hospitals.
  - djrogers 6y ago
    The vast majority of places in the US have almost no covid cases. Many emergency hospitals and rent hospitals have been taken down or decommissioned, and in some cases nurses and hospital staff are even being furloughed because demand for elective and non-emergency care have dropped off a cliff.
  - sethammons 6y ago
    Hospitals in my area have laid off and/or furloughed nurses. Also in my state, less than 500 people have tested positive (lack of testing for sure) and less than 20 people have died. There are not enough sick people from COVID or anything else to fill our hospitals. However, people are unable to do normal treatments and elective procedures due to lockdowns or are unwilling to go due to fear of COVID. Thus no money coming in to the hospitals thus layoffs and furloughs.
  - deleted 6y ago
tspike 6y ago
> No one could have ever predicted ...
- drewcon 6y ago
  I think I watched a movie about this one time...
- Trasmatta 6y ago
  "No one could have ever predicted that this very common thing that's happened all throughout human history would happen again"
tomohawk 6y ago
> ... the gate agent is not going to be your personal valet because you didn’t have enough god-given common sense to plan your travels accordingly. You can call ahead and arrange for a sky cap to assist you with luggage, or if you ambulatory help, such as a wheel chair. This is well worth it if walking through an airport will be challenging for you. The sky cap will get you past the lines and through the airport in record time. Make sure to tip them, as they work for tips.
- ISL 6y ago
  The mobility assistance services (in this case, American Airlines) are a godsend. My father has a terminal illness (well, we all do, but his is more advanced) -- they made it possible for him to travel everywhere on a complicated itinerary to see family. I traveled with him on much of the journey; their assistance was incredible. Tip high. They exceeded expectations in every airport.
  - jimmyswimmy 6y ago
    As a kid I used to do that job. Paid minimum wage plus the occasional tip. The flight attendants and gate staff sometimes offer minimal assistance moving a traveler into a stair chair when the person cannot even get out of their seats, but usually they left even that to us. At least at US airports, those guys work for the airport, not the airline.
ISL 6y ago
The days of carefree travel will return. It'll be a while, but it will be back. In early March, looking for a park to sit quietly with my thoughts in the sunshine but away from others, I found myself in a local cemetery. Alone, but not far from a great many people. Seattle's a pretty young place on the scale of things. I was surprised to find that our local graveyard had a substantial contingent that had lived through the 1918 flu. After noting, to my surprise, that there wasn't an obvious peak in the deaths in 1918, I sat there and silently asked a number of them what they'd tell us, if they could. I wasn't sure of the answers, but my perspective was changed. Everything all of us know as "normal" came after a number of devastating pandemics. It'll be back, it'll be slightly different, but it will be the same.
- walterbell 6y ago
  > I sat there and silently asked a number of them what they'd tell us, if they could. Don't dig up my body and recreate the 1918 virus? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/523163.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/523163.stm > Because the corpses were buried in the "permafrost" - ground that is frozen even at the height of the Arctic summer - tissue samples from the brain, kidney, lungs and spleen were well preserved.
  - _drimzy 6y ago
    Viruses can survive in the "permafrost", because they are frozen. Pretty sure no virus can survive for a 100 years buried in ground at normal temperatures!
    - newsbinator 6y ago
      > Pretty sure no virus can survive for a 100 years buried in ground at normal temperatures! I want to agree with you, although usually when we say things like that about viruses a few years later we find a class that can.
- vikramkr 6y ago
  https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/seattles-quick-thinking-1918-flu-pandemic-now-credited-with-saving-lives/FS6JJQBVVBBINLQQRYR5WAD6FU/ https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/seattles-quick-thinking-191... We can turn to history to get a sense of what they might have told us. Seattle acted quickly and swiftly, and the damage was mitigated. Compare that to Philadelphia, where it wasnt. And ultimately, research into influenza led to confirming the causative agent and developing the first effective influenza vaccines. We learned, we adapted, and we fought back. Don't know how long it will take, but it's good to remember that for the past few dozen millenia, the lack of fear of pandemics was not normal. The normal we are trying to return to is a new normal created by our species unwillingness to let infectious disease have the last word.
stormdennis 6y ago
It's reactionary to say it but China has to pay a price for this, otherwise what's to stop it happening again? Edit :I've been completely hammered on this topic so I won't make any more comments. Hope that's ok
- stormdennis 6y ago
  Wow, minus 3 rep in a matter of seconds! Minus 3 was them, now it's far surpassed that as has this comment.
- ISL 6y ago
  We're all paying a price for this. It is on each of us to limit the damage today and prevent a similar event in the future.
  - stormdennis 6y ago
    China castigated the rest of the world for suggesting restrictions on travel from there, yet now are blaming foreigners for new cases there, as well as imposing the sort of restrictions that they felt were unacceptable when applied to them
- netsharc 6y ago
  I wonder what other bullshit things governments have caused due to their neglect which could be punished, in that imaginary world of yours... The Chinese government has the incentive to not let something like this happening again because they still need the queit cooperation of their population, a slow-burning dissent would still lead to their downfall...
  - stormdennis 6y ago
    What is imaginary about the Chinese authorities suppressing news about this virus? We already know that the (late) doctor who first exposed it was forced to sign a retraction.
- cachestash 6y ago
walterbell 6y ago
Humans continuously invent their "normals". There was no "old normal" and there won't be a "new normal". Already, different countries and regions have different cultures, histories, responses and outcomes. If anything, their future societies are diverging as a result of conscious choices and actions by humans exercising creative will.
- Trasmatta 6y ago
  Out of all the buzzwords to come out of COVID, "new normal" is maybe my least favorite. What the hell does it even mean?
  - akiselev 6y ago
    Like all great buzzwords, its vague enough to mean whatever the speaker wants it to mean.
    - asplake 6y ago
      I suspect it may have been inspired by Virginia Satir’s change model, specifically the “new status quo” at its end
  - walterbell 6y ago
    It means a word virus has found a new carrier of semantic dilution.
  - OJFord 6y ago
    That what ends up being considered 'normal' is not what used to be (the 'old normal').
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    The phrase somewhat predates 2020: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=the%20new%20normal&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cthe%20new%20normal%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=the%20new%20no... With some pop culture antecedents as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Normal_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Normal_(TV_series)
dannyw 6y ago
All I can think of reading this article is someone else overly panicking over ‘rona’. Look at the statistics yourself: as someone under the age of 65, your chances of dying even after catching it is negligible. It’s a rounding error. The younger you are, the more harmless it is to you. Yes, you can pass it along to other people, those older and actually at risk. But thinking YOU are at risk is a myth.
- drewcon 6y ago
  Chance of death is one thing, but your chance of ending up with a prolonged extremely unpleasant hospital stay and possible long term (we don't know yet, but I don't want to be the one to find out) morbidities is far higher. Under 50 year olds make up 20-25% of hospitalizations. https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1259131903170371591 https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1259131903170371591
  - H8crilA 6y ago
    50% of ICU patients have clotting problems, including strokes, but mostly damage to lower limbs. 30% of ICU patients experience kidney problems and require a consultation with a nephrologist or dialysis. It's not as simple as "all good" vs "death". PS: source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-hijacks-the-body-from-head-to-toe-perplexing-doctors-11588864248 https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-hijacks-the-body-fr...
    - dannyw 6y ago
      These numbers don’t account for the age distribution. It’s not reasonable to say “25% of those going to ICUs are under 50” (chances are this is probably 23% 40-45; btw), and “50% of those in ICU have clotting problems”, so “25% x 50% = 12.5%”.
      - H8crilA 6y ago
        True. Note that I did not perform those multiplications because I agree that the interpretation of the results is highly speculative in nature, and can lead to possibly very incorrect conclusions. The point is like I stated: the end result is not a simple resolution between complete success or death.
SeanBoocock 6y ago
Similar stories from a family member who is a major airline pilot. Light load of trips on their (line) schedule, of those trips several get cancelled and of the trips that don't get cancelled, certain legs of them will be day of such that they will have to deadhead somewhere to pick up another flight or layover in an unexpected city. It's a mess and I don't think the (domestic) airline industry will look the same a year from now.
ekianjo 6y ago
From the same industry, a very good take from Mentour Pilot on how the crisis will turn out in terms of the economic future of airlines (with 3 different scenarios): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UJR9JFdMYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UJR9JFdMYI
boromi 6y ago
I often get sick during travel. It's really annoying. But the last two trips I got sick and I'm pretty sure it happened at the airport. So there is a positive from this in terms of travel.
tyingq 6y ago
"That woman by the way was traveling by herself with a dog kennel, a baby, a car seat and two carry-on bags, and yet the airport was in the wrong for not having anything or anyone ready to assist her as she deplaned" I actually think it's reasonable that the woman expects more from the airport. They levy very high margin charges for landing, departure, parking, rent for vendors, and so on. Reasonable service seems expected. Perhaps not a pre-staged cart, but at least nearby phone (or number to text) to ask for one.
- krisvage 6y ago
  I think that it is reasonable to expect the woman to check in the car seat and at least one of the carry-ons as baggage. I also think it is reasonable for the flight attendant and other passengers to expect the airline to enforce their rules on this, although maybe with more leniency now, but do not then expect extra service for breaking common curtesy.
  - owenmarshall 6y ago
    Lots of people have stopped flying infant in arms because it’s far safer for babies to be properly secured. The FAA is rather clear on that. That means the car seat wouldn’t be checked: it would be strapped down to a seat and the baby strapped in that. In this case, it’s very possible - even likely, because airlines like selling seats - that baby was a revenue passenger entitled to a carry-on bag of its own.
    - ianlevesque 6y ago
      Entirely this. As someone who has flown with multiple children and/or infants (I apologize to everyone who hates screaming children on planes), most of the time now you buy a separate ticket for your baby and have them in a carseat that is strapped into the plane seat. It's a logistical nightmare.
      - gvjddbnvdrbv 6y ago
        I've never seen a car seat on a plane. We flew multiple times with ours on our laps.
sethammons 6y ago
> Hotel check-ins now consist of wiping down all the surfaces and light switches in the room with antibacterial wipes. I assume they mean something else. We are dealing with a virus. Alcohol and bleach wipes ftw.
sethammons 6y ago
> The days of carefree travel are long gone. I feel like that exited back in 2011.
- Marsymars 6y ago
  What happened in 2011?
  - nkohari 6y ago
    Pretty sure they meant 2001, as in 9/11.
rb808 6y ago
I think flight attendants is probably a job that should be for people that have had CV and have recovered already. I can't imagine anyone doing that job without becoming infected.
- tyingq 6y ago
  At least for now, it's believable they could work safely. There's very few people on the aircraft, and snacks/beverages are mostly stopped. Also, contrary to popular belief, the air in the aircraft is refreshed fairly often from the outside (via the engines).
guscost 6y ago
If you could find a working flight attendant who is still susceptible to COVID-19, I’d be astounded. Crazy times.
_curious_ 6y ago
Why was I expecting something...interesting and unique from this sub/story...underwhelming :/

100 points by imartin2k 6y ago

> The days of carefree travel are long gone. I've been digging up videos of people from the early 1920s and I see very little impact of the Spanish Flu on people's mannerisms even just within a year or two after (like no masks in the streets even though mask wearing was apparently a big thing during the pandemic). Just the other day, I was reading up on Charlie Chaplin. Looking at his filmography, I noticed a a gap of just 1 year (between "A Day's Pleasure" released Dec 1919 and "The Kid" released Feb 2021) which is when the pandemic would've been raging across the land. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Chaplin_filmography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Chaplin_filmography) So, while I certainly watch in horror at what is happening with COVID-19 and how the whole world has come to a standstill, if history is to be believed, we'll bounce back faster than we suspect. Not tomorrow, maybe not even within the next six months, but very likely within a year I think we'll be back in full force.

ekianjo 6y ago
> Within a year after a vaccine becomes available, We have never successfully developed a vaccine for a coronavirus before. And even if it's proven to be feasible, it will be unlikely to be very practical (are we going to manufacture billions of doses? How long will it take? Won't there be some kind of herd immunity by then?) and there are also indicators that such vaccines would not be effective beyond 6 months or so. The more I hear about a vaccine for this coronavirus, the less it seems like the true solution for this crisis.
- walterbell 6y ago
  Vaccines are unlikely to work or be scalable, though that won't stop companies from trying. More practically, repurposing widely available low-cost therapeutics, combined with early treatment, have proven effective in many cases. When not detected and treated early, expensive drugs may be necessary for treatment.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    > Vaccines are unlikely to work or be scalable Can you back that up with some kind of science? There are >100 in development and several are done with phase 1. Hell, one is already entering production in anticipation of final approval later this year. Short term, we'll probably rely heavily on plasma.
    - walterbell 6y ago
      Zero vaccines in the entire history of coronaviruses. For the well-known reason that the viruses mutate, so a vaccine against seasonal variant A does not work against new variant B.
      - rootusrootus 6y ago
        This is a common misconception. Viruses mutate, sure, but most do not mutate very quickly or very much. This includes coronaviruses. Influenza, on the other hand, mutates at a prodigious rate in meaningful ways. The reason we don't have vaccines against any coronaviruses is because there aren't very many that infect humans and all of them other than SC2 are so mild it isn't worth spending the effort to eradicate them.
        ekianjo 6y ago
        > The reason we don't have vaccines against any coronaviruses Coronaviruses affect animals too, and yet we haven't been able to develop vaccines against them. And yes, there are vaccines for many other infections for animals.
- icegreentea2 6y ago
  Where did you get the 6 month figure from? It's true we really don't know how things will pan out long term, but we know that there are lot's of possibilities that all work out to something that's not awful in the long term. For example, we already produce and distribute an annual vaccine on the scale of billions (the flu). The flu also has tampering effectiveness on a pretty short time scale. The flu vaccine is also not 100% effective. And despite all of those short comings, we're able to mitigate flu into something that people literally use as the low bar for infectious diseases in terms of spread and severity. I think you're right that the vaccine is unlikely to let us eradicate coronavirus, but it'll let us get back to a new normal - one that isn't fundamentally different from our old normal (at least from a health perspective - who knows what happens at a societal or policy level).
  - fpoling 6y ago
    The flu vaccine efficiency is rather low, between 19% and 60% depending on the year, https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectiveness-studies.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectiveness-studies.... But what is interesting is that the current lockdown in Norway killed the flu with season ending abruptly.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      That's not surprising! The lockdown is a general-purpose counter to droplet/airborne-communicable diseases, it's not done for seasonal flu because the cost is seen as disproportionate to the known benefit. Stopping other communicable diseases is an expected side effect of the COVID-19 lockdowns.
    - nradov 6y ago
      Those percentages don't tell the whole story. Even when the vaccine doesn't match the circulating strains closely enough to prevent infection, it typically mitigates symptom severity at least a little. For some patients that can be the difference between life and death.
Zigurd 6y ago
There are several simultaneous misperceptions I see: First, noted in the article, is a false sense of security. If the Secret Service in the White House can have an outbreak, any workplace can have an outbreak. The pandemic has yet to hit large swathes of the planet, but it will probably do so before a vaccine is available. This is really, really bad, and will be until there is some substantial change. Third is a sense of false optimism: There is one antiviral that has been tested to have a significant but relatively modest effect on recovery time, and that may reduce risk of death by an as yet unknown amount. Other than that, no confirmed breakthroughs in treatment. Nothing that sharply reduces risk of death or duration and severity of illness. In other words, the risks are almost the same as on day one. Why does anyone thing a lockdown can be lifted with a price in terms of many tens of thousands of lives just in the US? Lastly, there is a sense that we will be in a permanent pandemic. As the above comment points out, the direct impact will be felt for one or two years. There will be permanent changes, perhaps as a result of the realization that access to health care is key to minimizing pandemics. Perhaps infectious disease surveillance will rise in importance. But the economy will resume. Un-parking airplanes will happen. Humans want to travel. Businesses may realize that business travel can be cut down. Schools may realize distance learning can work. But I see no reason why discretionary travel would not resume and grow. I see no reason why in-person social mingling would not resume, maybe with a bang, as people celebrate being vaccinated.
- Saaster 6y ago
  If business travel is reduced, you can expect the cost of regular coach class tickets to increase massively as the former pays for the flight and the latter is just there to wring a bit more profit out of the trip. Business travel right now is non-existent and many companies are finding that things still work just fine without it and will not return to previous spend levels.
  - ec109685 6y ago
    Tickets to leisure destinations are not out of line from flights on business routes, so I don’t think it’s right to say airplanes can’t fly profitably without business travelers footing the bill.
citrin_ru 6y ago
I hope that travel will be a norm again, but what have changed since 1920s - nowadays practically zero risk during air travel is a baseline expectation. It looks like the last couple of generations are much more risk averse than any previous generation.

umvi 6y ago

Since hospitals are practically empty right now, have we thought of allowing people to voluntarily get infected/quarantined (using a tiny viral load)? Obviously no old, immuno-compromised, or other vulnerable people. But for healthy "essential" workers it would mean not living in fear that they might get it... because they already got over it.

quickthrowman 6y ago
I doubt the legal department of the hospital would allow such a thing
chdaniel 6y ago
Genuine question: why are hospitals empty? Aren't people affected by covid taken there?
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Severe covid cases are, but in most areas that's not enough to fill the hospitals.
- djrogers 6y ago
  The vast majority of places in the US have almost no covid cases. Many emergency hospitals and rent hospitals have been taken down or decommissioned, and in some cases nurses and hospital staff are even being furloughed because demand for elective and non-emergency care have dropped off a cliff.
- sethammons 6y ago
  Hospitals in my area have laid off and/or furloughed nurses. Also in my state, less than 500 people have tested positive (lack of testing for sure) and less than 20 people have died. There are not enough sick people from COVID or anything else to fill our hospitals. However, people are unable to do normal treatments and elective procedures due to lockdowns or are unwilling to go due to fear of COVID. Thus no money coming in to the hospitals thus layoffs and furloughs.
- deleted 6y ago

tspike 6y ago

> No one could have ever predicted ...

drewcon 6y ago
I think I watched a movie about this one time...
Trasmatta 6y ago
"No one could have ever predicted that this very common thing that's happened all throughout human history would happen again"

tomohawk 6y ago

> ... the gate agent is not going to be your personal valet because you didn’t have enough god-given common sense to plan your travels accordingly. You can call ahead and arrange for a sky cap to assist you with luggage, or if you ambulatory help, such as a wheel chair. This is well worth it if walking through an airport will be challenging for you. The sky cap will get you past the lines and through the airport in record time. Make sure to tip them, as they work for tips.

ISL 6y ago
The mobility assistance services (in this case, American Airlines) are a godsend. My father has a terminal illness (well, we all do, but his is more advanced) -- they made it possible for him to travel everywhere on a complicated itinerary to see family. I traveled with him on much of the journey; their assistance was incredible. Tip high. They exceeded expectations in every airport.
- jimmyswimmy 6y ago
  As a kid I used to do that job. Paid minimum wage plus the occasional tip. The flight attendants and gate staff sometimes offer minimal assistance moving a traveler into a stair chair when the person cannot even get out of their seats, but usually they left even that to us. At least at US airports, those guys work for the airport, not the airline.

ISL 6y ago

The days of carefree travel will return. It'll be a while, but it will be back. In early March, looking for a park to sit quietly with my thoughts in the sunshine but away from others, I found myself in a local cemetery. Alone, but not far from a great many people. Seattle's a pretty young place on the scale of things. I was surprised to find that our local graveyard had a substantial contingent that had lived through the 1918 flu. After noting, to my surprise, that there wasn't an obvious peak in the deaths in 1918, I sat there and silently asked a number of them what they'd tell us, if they could. I wasn't sure of the answers, but my perspective was changed. Everything all of us know as "normal" came after a number of devastating pandemics. It'll be back, it'll be slightly different, but it will be the same.

walterbell 6y ago
> I sat there and silently asked a number of them what they'd tell us, if they could. Don't dig up my body and recreate the 1918 virus? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/523163.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/523163.stm > Because the corpses were buried in the "permafrost" - ground that is frozen even at the height of the Arctic summer - tissue samples from the brain, kidney, lungs and spleen were well preserved.
- _drimzy 6y ago
  Viruses can survive in the "permafrost", because they are frozen. Pretty sure no virus can survive for a 100 years buried in ground at normal temperatures!
  - newsbinator 6y ago
    > Pretty sure no virus can survive for a 100 years buried in ground at normal temperatures! I want to agree with you, although usually when we say things like that about viruses a few years later we find a class that can.
vikramkr 6y ago
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/seattles-quick-thinking-1918-flu-pandemic-now-credited-with-saving-lives/FS6JJQBVVBBINLQQRYR5WAD6FU/ https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/seattles-quick-thinking-191... We can turn to history to get a sense of what they might have told us. Seattle acted quickly and swiftly, and the damage was mitigated. Compare that to Philadelphia, where it wasnt. And ultimately, research into influenza led to confirming the causative agent and developing the first effective influenza vaccines. We learned, we adapted, and we fought back. Don't know how long it will take, but it's good to remember that for the past few dozen millenia, the lack of fear of pandemics was not normal. The normal we are trying to return to is a new normal created by our species unwillingness to let infectious disease have the last word.

stormdennis 6y ago

It's reactionary to say it but China has to pay a price for this, otherwise what's to stop it happening again? Edit :I've been completely hammered on this topic so I won't make any more comments. Hope that's ok

stormdennis 6y ago
Wow, minus 3 rep in a matter of seconds! Minus 3 was them, now it's far surpassed that as has this comment.
ISL 6y ago
We're all paying a price for this. It is on each of us to limit the damage today and prevent a similar event in the future.
- stormdennis 6y ago
  China castigated the rest of the world for suggesting restrictions on travel from there, yet now are blaming foreigners for new cases there, as well as imposing the sort of restrictions that they felt were unacceptable when applied to them
netsharc 6y ago
I wonder what other bullshit things governments have caused due to their neglect which could be punished, in that imaginary world of yours... The Chinese government has the incentive to not let something like this happening again because they still need the queit cooperation of their population, a slow-burning dissent would still lead to their downfall...
- stormdennis 6y ago
  What is imaginary about the Chinese authorities suppressing news about this virus? We already know that the (late) doctor who first exposed it was forced to sign a retraction.
cachestash 6y ago

walterbell 6y ago

Humans continuously invent their "normals". There was no "old normal" and there won't be a "new normal". Already, different countries and regions have different cultures, histories, responses and outcomes. If anything, their future societies are diverging as a result of conscious choices and actions by humans exercising creative will.

Trasmatta 6y ago
Out of all the buzzwords to come out of COVID, "new normal" is maybe my least favorite. What the hell does it even mean?
- akiselev 6y ago
  Like all great buzzwords, its vague enough to mean whatever the speaker wants it to mean.
  - asplake 6y ago
    I suspect it may have been inspired by Virginia Satir’s change model, specifically the “new status quo” at its end
- walterbell 6y ago
  It means a word virus has found a new carrier of semantic dilution.
- OJFord 6y ago
  That what ends up being considered 'normal' is not what used to be (the 'old normal').
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  The phrase somewhat predates 2020: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=the%20new%20normal&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cthe%20new%20normal%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=the%20new%20no... With some pop culture antecedents as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Normal_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Normal_(TV_series)

dannyw 6y ago

All I can think of reading this article is someone else overly panicking over ‘rona’. Look at the statistics yourself: as someone under the age of 65, your chances of dying even after catching it is negligible. It’s a rounding error. The younger you are, the more harmless it is to you. Yes, you can pass it along to other people, those older and actually at risk. But thinking YOU are at risk is a myth.

drewcon 6y ago
Chance of death is one thing, but your chance of ending up with a prolonged extremely unpleasant hospital stay and possible long term (we don't know yet, but I don't want to be the one to find out) morbidities is far higher. Under 50 year olds make up 20-25% of hospitalizations. https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1259131903170371591 https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1259131903170371591
- H8crilA 6y ago
  50% of ICU patients have clotting problems, including strokes, but mostly damage to lower limbs. 30% of ICU patients experience kidney problems and require a consultation with a nephrologist or dialysis. It's not as simple as "all good" vs "death". PS: source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-hijacks-the-body-from-head-to-toe-perplexing-doctors-11588864248 https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-hijacks-the-body-fr...
  - dannyw 6y ago
    These numbers don’t account for the age distribution. It’s not reasonable to say “25% of those going to ICUs are under 50” (chances are this is probably 23% 40-45; btw), and “50% of those in ICU have clotting problems”, so “25% x 50% = 12.5%”.
    - H8crilA 6y ago
      True. Note that I did not perform those multiplications because I agree that the interpretation of the results is highly speculative in nature, and can lead to possibly very incorrect conclusions. The point is like I stated: the end result is not a simple resolution between complete success or death.

SeanBoocock 6y ago

Similar stories from a family member who is a major airline pilot. Light load of trips on their (line) schedule, of those trips several get cancelled and of the trips that don't get cancelled, certain legs of them will be day of such that they will have to deadhead somewhere to pick up another flight or layover in an unexpected city. It's a mess and I don't think the (domestic) airline industry will look the same a year from now.

ekianjo 6y ago

From the same industry, a very good take from Mentour Pilot on how the crisis will turn out in terms of the economic future of airlines (with 3 different scenarios): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UJR9JFdMYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UJR9JFdMYI

boromi 6y ago

I often get sick during travel. It's really annoying. But the last two trips I got sick and I'm pretty sure it happened at the airport. So there is a positive from this in terms of travel.

tyingq 6y ago

"That woman by the way was traveling by herself with a dog kennel, a baby, a car seat and two carry-on bags, and yet the airport was in the wrong for not having anything or anyone ready to assist her as she deplaned" I actually think it's reasonable that the woman expects more from the airport. They levy very high margin charges for landing, departure, parking, rent for vendors, and so on. Reasonable service seems expected. Perhaps not a pre-staged cart, but at least nearby phone (or number to text) to ask for one.

krisvage 6y ago
I think that it is reasonable to expect the woman to check in the car seat and at least one of the carry-ons as baggage. I also think it is reasonable for the flight attendant and other passengers to expect the airline to enforce their rules on this, although maybe with more leniency now, but do not then expect extra service for breaking common curtesy.
- owenmarshall 6y ago
  Lots of people have stopped flying infant in arms because it’s far safer for babies to be properly secured. The FAA is rather clear on that. That means the car seat wouldn’t be checked: it would be strapped down to a seat and the baby strapped in that. In this case, it’s very possible - even likely, because airlines like selling seats - that baby was a revenue passenger entitled to a carry-on bag of its own.
  - ianlevesque 6y ago
    Entirely this. As someone who has flown with multiple children and/or infants (I apologize to everyone who hates screaming children on planes), most of the time now you buy a separate ticket for your baby and have them in a carseat that is strapped into the plane seat. It's a logistical nightmare.
    - gvjddbnvdrbv 6y ago
      I've never seen a car seat on a plane. We flew multiple times with ours on our laps.

sethammons 6y ago

> Hotel check-ins now consist of wiping down all the surfaces and light switches in the room with antibacterial wipes. I assume they mean something else. We are dealing with a virus. Alcohol and bleach wipes ftw.

sethammons 6y ago

> The days of carefree travel are long gone. I feel like that exited back in 2011.

Marsymars 6y ago
What happened in 2011?
- nkohari 6y ago
  Pretty sure they meant 2001, as in 9/11.

rb808 6y ago

I think flight attendants is probably a job that should be for people that have had CV and have recovered already. I can't imagine anyone doing that job without becoming infected.

tyingq 6y ago
At least for now, it's believable they could work safely. There's very few people on the aircraft, and snacks/beverages are mostly stopped. Also, contrary to popular belief, the air in the aircraft is refreshed fairly often from the outside (via the engines).

guscost 6y ago

If you could find a working flight attendant who is still susceptible to COVID-19, I’d be astounded. Crazy times.

_curious_ 6y ago

Why was I expecting something...interesting and unique from this sub/story...underwhelming :/