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As if herd immunity is the only way. Note that Australians and New Zealanders don't have immunity to a lot of things. We're don't have herd immunity to Ebola.

As if herd immunity is the only way. Note that Australians and New Zealanders don't have immunity to a lot of things. We're don't have herd immunity to Ebola. Instead we just don't let it take hold. We have 0 cases of rabies. It no longer exists in any animals. Cholera is almost non-existent. Occasionally a flight will come in that causes some alarm but that's it. Malaria only comes from people who traveled abroad. Our cows aren't immune to mad cow disease. But we don't have any cases here. It's amazing what a bit of distance and quarantine can achieve. The two nations are also close to eliminating COVID-19 internally. Sure international travel will have to remain restricted but it's really not a big deal. Trade is still happening, just not tourism.

sergiotapia 6y ago
>The two nations are also close to eliminating COVID-19 internally. And all it takes is one person to coof somewhere in their country and bada bing you're toast. I don't see how this is beneficial, unless moving forward they has no travel period which is completely unrealistic.
- quixoticelixer- 6y ago
  Except that's not the case at all. It is easy to track and isolate a small number of cases. The New Zealand government listens to its advises who know more than you do.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    New Zealand has had fairly strict lockdown measures even though new cases have been in the single digits for weeks. This suggests that they think contact tracing can't control even a small number of cases without extreme additional measures.
    - pixelbash 6y ago
      Because if we do that now hopefully we won't have to do it again.
      - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
        That's my point. If your end goal is to have zero cases and not just a small manageable number, that will require severe ongoing restrictions - for example, probably no travelers from Europe or the US for years. It won't be just a matter of having good coronavirus infrastructure in place.
        AnotherGoodName 6y ago
        That's correct and that's exactly what the leadership of AU+NZ are discussing at the moment as per the article. >The meeting discussed a possible "trans-Tasman bubble", where people could go between Australia and New Zealand freely, and without quarantine. But she said visitors from further afield were not possible any time soon. Trade will still occur of course. There doesn't seem to be a documented risk of COVID spreading via cargo ships. Tourism is the issue. The hope is that since AU/NZ have more or less as much outgoing tourism as they do incoming tourism the economic damage from border closures can be mitigated by directing tourism internally and bilaterally. New Zealand has been at 0 new cases for days now and Australia seems to be just a couple of weeks behind on getting COVID-19 to zero new cases. There were 24 new cases in Australia yesterday but that's far away from the peak 500+ they had in March. So it's a possibility. The only risk to these two nations is foreign travel sparking a new wave of infections. So foreign travel will have to be restricted. In all other respects life will go back to normal. I don't think the same is true of any other nations in the world right now. Nowhere else will you be able to live normally without that risk. Seriously if the best negative anyone has against the quarantine is you'll have to continue to restrict international travel now that you've literally got the number to 0 new cases you've lost me. That's such a small price to pay.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        6y ago
    - quixoticelixer- 6y ago
      Can't control the number of cases at the moment. And New Zealand is planning to leave lockdown very soon
macspoofing 6y ago
>We're don't have herd immunity to Ebola. Instead we just don't let it take hold. Well, COVID-19 isn't Ebola, and it has taken hold, and we are under lockdown. So what are the conditions for reopening? Vaccine?
- AnotherGoodName 6y ago
  > it has taken hold New Zealand had zero new cases yesterday. Zero. Australia had 24 new cases and trending to zero.
  - karateka 6y ago
    I'm not sure which timezone you're in but, yesterday (Wed 6 May) in New Zealand we recorded one confirmed case, one probable case and one death. We still have a ways to go before we're out of the woods. We have some reassuring signs though (many consecutive days of < 10 cases detected).
augustt 6y ago
Those examples are either not very contagious or not contagious at all.
- AnotherGoodName 6y ago
  And yet given the continuing 0 new cases of COVID in New Zealand it is manageable. The only risk is international visitors at this point which the article discusses in terms of both issues and solutions to an ongoing international travel ban.
- makomk 6y ago
  Yes. Ebola, for example, requires direct contact with the body fluids of an infected person. It also kills a high double-digit percentage of everyone who gets it. This makes eradicating it entirely both more feasible and much more important than a respiratory disease that can be caught just by being in the same room as someone with no symptoms, and that causes mild or even no symptoms in most people who get it. Covid-19 just doesn't have characteristics that make eliminating it entirely look like a feasible option.

sergiotapia 6y ago

>The two nations are also close to eliminating COVID-19 internally. And all it takes is one person to coof somewhere in their country and bada bing you're toast. I don't see how this is beneficial, unless moving forward they has no travel period which is completely unrealistic.

quixoticelixer- 6y ago
Except that's not the case at all. It is easy to track and isolate a small number of cases. The New Zealand government listens to its advises who know more than you do.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  New Zealand has had fairly strict lockdown measures even though new cases have been in the single digits for weeks. This suggests that they think contact tracing can't control even a small number of cases without extreme additional measures.
  - pixelbash 6y ago
    Because if we do that now hopefully we won't have to do it again.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      That's my point. If your end goal is to have zero cases and not just a small manageable number, that will require severe ongoing restrictions - for example, probably no travelers from Europe or the US for years. It won't be just a matter of having good coronavirus infrastructure in place.
      - AnotherGoodName 6y ago
        That's correct and that's exactly what the leadership of AU+NZ are discussing at the moment as per the article. >The meeting discussed a possible "trans-Tasman bubble", where people could go between Australia and New Zealand freely, and without quarantine. But she said visitors from further afield were not possible any time soon. Trade will still occur of course. There doesn't seem to be a documented risk of COVID spreading via cargo ships. Tourism is the issue. The hope is that since AU/NZ have more or less as much outgoing tourism as they do incoming tourism the economic damage from border closures can be mitigated by directing tourism internally and bilaterally. New Zealand has been at 0 new cases for days now and Australia seems to be just a couple of weeks behind on getting COVID-19 to zero new cases. There were 24 new cases in Australia yesterday but that's far away from the peak 500+ they had in March. So it's a possibility. The only risk to these two nations is foreign travel sparking a new wave of infections. So foreign travel will have to be restricted. In all other respects life will go back to normal. I don't think the same is true of any other nations in the world right now. Nowhere else will you be able to live normally without that risk. Seriously if the best negative anyone has against the quarantine is you'll have to continue to restrict international travel now that you've literally got the number to 0 new cases you've lost me. That's such a small price to pay.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - 6y ago
  - quixoticelixer- 6y ago
    Can't control the number of cases at the moment. And New Zealand is planning to leave lockdown very soon

macspoofing 6y ago

>We're don't have herd immunity to Ebola. Instead we just don't let it take hold. Well, COVID-19 isn't Ebola, and it has taken hold, and we are under lockdown. So what are the conditions for reopening? Vaccine?

AnotherGoodName 6y ago
> it has taken hold New Zealand had zero new cases yesterday. Zero. Australia had 24 new cases and trending to zero.
- karateka 6y ago
  I'm not sure which timezone you're in but, yesterday (Wed 6 May) in New Zealand we recorded one confirmed case, one probable case and one death. We still have a ways to go before we're out of the woods. We have some reassuring signs though (many consecutive days of < 10 cases detected).

augustt 6y ago

Those examples are either not very contagious or not contagious at all.

AnotherGoodName 6y ago
And yet given the continuing 0 new cases of COVID in New Zealand it is manageable. The only risk is international visitors at this point which the article discusses in terms of both issues and solutions to an ongoing international travel ban.
makomk 6y ago
Yes. Ebola, for example, requires direct contact with the body fluids of an infected person. It also kills a high double-digit percentage of everyone who gets it. This makes eradicating it entirely both more feasible and much more important than a respiratory disease that can be caught just by being in the same room as someone with no symptoms, and that causes mild or even no symptoms in most people who get it. Covid-19 just doesn't have characteristics that make eliminating it entirely look like a feasible option.