7 ms·

Microsoft launches Surface Book 3 with new Nvidia GPU options

98 points by naves 6y ago

johnchristopher 6y ago
> It’s disappointing to not see any design tweaks Why ? So that manufacturers feel they have to change something, anything, to satisfy spec-only reviewers ? And then we end up with an apple keyboard fiasco ?
- Vysero 6y ago
  Progress for the sake of progress must be discouraged. --Dolores Umbridge
  - Vysero 6y ago
    Why is this getting down voted it's a quote from Harry Potter ya dorks. It's so incredibly obvious that it's a joke I am supersized those of you who down voted it can tell the difference between a shoe and a hat...
    - leonroy 6y ago
      Relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23080059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23080059 sigh
- andylei 6y ago
  design tweaks like more than 1 usb-c port
  - johnchristopher 6y ago
    While it's a good point I wouldn't call it a design tweak but an hardware improvement ^^.
- anoplus 6y ago
  Keeping a design unchanged is so underrated. I witness it most when giving technical support to the elderly. When they ask: "why did they changed it?!". I say: "because someone needed a job".
- freepor 6y ago
  Well I doubt that any of these have reached perfect design (the way that say, a can of Coca-Cola has) so we’d expect to see some minor changes. Hinges, ports, keyboard, etc etc
- pizza234 6y ago
  Although the updates released are very welcome, in my opinion, the Surface Book 3 has some significant problems. I get that due to the design, it will always be a heavy machine. But due to the hinge, the SB is not really a portable machine, at least in a modern sense. There's no technical justification for the bulkiness; other laptops implement(ed) the form factor with much more compact hinges (I owned at least one that did). It's huge even when in a backpack. It's ironic that this horrible hinge is the trademark of the machine. If they changed it, they would be essentially forced to sell it as a new line. The USB-C is also clearly a checklist feature, as it's not fully integrated: the charger has a Surface connect plug (AFAIK), and the tablet does not have a USB-C (I'm sure about this). This means 1. that the tablet needs the base to be charged through the base (but one can live with this), but worse, 2. that one needs to buy a separate USB-C charger (have fun with this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/7gj449/adventures_in_surface_book_2_charging https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/7gj449/adventures_...). Given the prices, and the fact that there is nothing comparable to the SB as tablet (maybe the Ipad), one could buy a cheap SB as large tablet. In this case, when traveling (with a separate laptop), one has to carry two chargers (or a hacky adapter, like I do). Check out the Microsoft Surface connect <> USB-C adapter: it's a joke. I personally think they sell few units, and that they're keeping the line as sort of "trophy laptop" (the prices are insane; for the same, you can buy much, much more powerful laptops of well known brands/lines).
lux 6y ago
The Quatro RTX 3000 Max-Q should make these a nice and slim VR-capable laptop option! Nice change from the heavy bricks we've had to carry around until now.
- robotnikman 6y ago
  Are the Quatro cards suitable for gaming? I've always been under the impression they tuned or modified more for use in CAD and similar applications
  - kayoone 6y ago
    They are and they might be a tiny bit slower than their gaming tuned counterparts, but they are still capable of running games without issues.
  - auxym 6y ago
    My understanding, at least in the past, is that it's the same hardware with different drivers. The drivers "guarantee" accurate rendering at cost of a bit of performance (maybe). At one point there were even hacks that allowed you to install the Quadro (it's quadro btw) drivers on gaming cards. The extra cost is mainly from getting the cards/drivers certified by every CAD/CAE software vendor as compatible, and possibly just extracting extra value from a market perceived as less cost-sensitive (ie, they are probably paying 10k/year at least just in CAE software licenses).
- nruttnod 6y ago
  The surfacebook 2 could not do vr with non windows mr headseats due to design changes that were made to make the tablet come off. I wonder if that is still the case with this one.
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  They aren't planning to sell the Quadro versions to customers directly, unfortunately, but only to business purchasers. If you go to the Microsoft site (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-book-3/8xbw9g3z71f1 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-book-3/8xbw9g3z71f...), the preorder configurations for personal use only include the relatively weak baseline GPUs they've chosen (1650 and 1660). I confirmed this again by talking to a sales rep over chat.
valine 6y ago
“Run Linux on Windows” Really fascinating seeing this in an official Microsoft ad.
- alexmat 6y ago
  Embrace. Extend. Extinguish. A phrase that the U.S. Department of Justice found was used internally by Microsoft to describe its strategy for entering product categories involving widely used standards, extending those standards with proprietary capabilities, and then using those differences in order to strongly disadvantage its competitors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...
  - danielscrubs 6y ago
    "Office documents: In a memo to the Office product group in 1998, Bill Gates stated: "One thing we have got to change in our strategy — allowing Office documents to be rendered very well by other people's browsers is one of the most destructive things we could do to the company. We have to stop putting any effort into this and make sure that Office documents very well depends on PROPRIETARY IE capabilities. Anything else is suicide for our platform. This is a case where Office has to avoid doing something to destroy [sic] Windows." [14]" This explains the Word format. It was a good read!
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    You do realize that was over two decades ago? Almost no one from that time is still working there.
    - Teever 6y ago
      Why would you assume that the corporate culture has changed?
- thdrdt 6y ago
  It's smart. Give people freedom of choice for their OS and earn most money with services. I'm using .NET on Ubuntu and it just works perfect. So as a Linux user I am now connected to the Microsoft ecosystem. Balmer maybe made a fool of himself while dancing the 'developer developer developer', but he was right.
zitterbewegung 6y ago
The most striking issue is that Thunderbolt 3 isn't available for this refresh. Even stranger is that the 15' doesn't have Wifi6 either (because it uses a AMD CPU)?
- yardie 6y ago
  Still on Intel i7 Y processors according to the article.
- binarycrusader 6y ago
  Both the 13” and 15” have WiFi6: Wi-Fi 6: 802.11ax compatible Bluetooth Wireless 5.0 technology Xbox Wireless built-in (15” only)4 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-book-3/8xbw9g3z71f1 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-book-3/8xbw9g3z71f... Where do you see otherwise? You’re talking about the Surface Book 3 right? Which is also Intel only currently.
- mips_avatar 6y ago
  They claim lack of thunderbolt 3 is by design, for security reasons. I bet they just got their chips for surface connector working and they don't want to ditch them. The surface hub does work pretty well. One cable to everything. https://sup.news/microsoft-says-surface-devices-dont-have-thunderbolt-due-to-security-concerns/ https://sup.news/microsoft-says-surface-devices-dont-have-th...
pinacarlos90 6y ago
The lack of thunderbolt 3 on the SB3 makes Dell XPS 13 a better thin&light option
- rkagerer 6y ago
  The Surface 3 comes with a real NVidia GPU like the GeForce GTX 1650 or 1660 Ti. That's what got my attention (being able to run SolidWorks on a thin and lightweight machine has some appeal for traveling). Unless I'm mistaken, Dell's XPS 13 just has CPU integrated graphics (Intel Iris). So I wouldn't consider it better, unless I limited myself to a desk, tethered to an external GPU. I do wish the Surface had other, beefier components available (eg. larger SSD).
yardie 6y ago
For this price and the target market why are they not including TB3 and more ports? They are committed to keeping their users on their poorly designed dock connector when they are is a much better industry standard connector out there.
- attqqq 6y ago
  TB3 means that end user could attach their own egpu to a lower end (cheaper) model, and future proof it harder against potential SB4.. not to mention, that their proprietary connector only connects to their $300 dock! I feel like everyone can learn from their competitors, but here Microsoft is emulating only the worst parts of Apple
- akadruid1 6y ago
  I love my SB1 although it's far from perfect. The dock connector does grow on you. Unlike USB-C, when someone trips over your cable the dock connector pulls free. The design of the SB1 means you can charge the tablet or keyboard independently with the same connector. And the $300 dock, while expensive, is better than any USB-C dock I've seen at providing a clutter-free desk with single attachment.
HugoDaniel 6y ago
will it run linux (directly and not inside windows) ? (microsoft <3 linux right ?)
- Wohlf 6y ago
  I've used Manjaro and Ubuntu on my Surface Book 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux/
tw04 6y ago
No Ryzen 4 is a major letdown.
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  Probably contracts with Intel that haven’t expired.
  - tw04 6y ago
    Then how did they manage to stick a Ryzen 3 in the Surface Laptop?
sylens 6y ago
I always look at the Surface Book and want it to be my next laptop, but I feel like it is a jack of all trades that doesn't really excel in any one area - and therefore, I have a hard time justifying it over other machines. Most powerful Surface ever? Sure, but the Macbook Pro 16" can give me double the cores at a similar pricepoint. Gaming-class GPU? Yeah, but if I wanted a gaming laptop I'd probably want something with an RTX card in it. And if I didn't care about form factor, I'd build a desktop. Detachable tablet? Interesting idea, but this feels highly impractical with the 15" version, which is the model I would get for maximum performance. I think if I was a college student, this would be a fantastic device. A little bit of everything and the ability to type notes in OneNote or handwrite them when necessary. But as my daily driver for productivity, I think there are better options at a similar price point.
- filoleg 6y ago
  I used the original Surface Book (13in) as a college student for a year, and I think you are spot-on. For me, as a student, it was a beautiful device. For that academic year, my notes were more impeccable and organized than I could have ever imagined my notes to be. OneNote is a pleasure to work with. Writing on Surface Book feels great. Downloading lecture pdfs/powerpoints and highlighting/annotating stuff on top of them was very useful. The machine ran fast enough for me to actually write code and use it as a normal machine too, with no limitations. As a daily driver, it was great. But all the cons you listed were true as well. My current daily driver is a newer MBP, but I still eye Surface line all the time, hoping that one day it will get to the point where I would want to pick it up again as my daily driver.
  - sylens 6y ago
    I think it will take a hardware redesign at this point, which I hope comes with USB4 that allows them to break dock compatibility as well. The 15 inch version doesn't need to detach. Just let it flip around like a ThinkPad X1 Yoga, therefore allowing you to put all of the compute stuff in the base as well. Go for 8 cores and give me the best mobile video card on the market and I'll buy one so fast.
Der_Einzige 6y ago
The bezels on this (and macbooks) are still SO HUGE. Guess I'm gonna keep recommending that my friends buy XPS's until they figure out that big bezels are ugly.
lynguist 6y ago
Isn’t the 15W CPU strongly limiting compared to the 28/W45W CPU in Apple’s lineup?
claytongulick 6y ago
FWIW, I own both the SB1 and SB2, and it's been, hands down, the best hardware I've ever used (and I've been through a lot, including multiple generations of macs). Typing this on my SB2, which weighs next to nothing, is capable of good gaming, has acceptable battery life, and allows me to detach the monitor and use the pen while in client meetings and marking up docs. Best all-around machine ever.
lazyjeff 6y ago
Finally a laptop with a good (1080p) front-facing camera.
pedalpete 6y ago
I think the Surface Book design is getting a bit long in the tooth. I don't think it was ever a winner for style, and the hinge and gap are not only strange, but also make it feel like a thick machine for such a premium laptop. I normally love Microsoft hardware design, but the Surface Book is the one device that stands out as needing a change.
romwell 6y ago
Sigh is a traditional laptop smaller than an A4 sheet too much to wish for? I just want a Surface Go with a decently-sized SSD that I can hold by the keyboard, and there just doesn't seem to be a machine like that. (Or a Surface Book that is just a bit smaller)

98 points by naves 6y ago

> It’s disappointing to not see any design tweaks Why ? So that manufacturers feel they have to change something, anything, to satisfy spec-only reviewers ? And then we end up with an apple keyboard fiasco ?

Vysero 6y ago
Progress for the sake of progress must be discouraged. --Dolores Umbridge
- Vysero 6y ago
  Why is this getting down voted it's a quote from Harry Potter ya dorks. It's so incredibly obvious that it's a joke I am supersized those of you who down voted it can tell the difference between a shoe and a hat...
  - leonroy 6y ago
    Relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23080059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23080059 sigh
andylei 6y ago
design tweaks like more than 1 usb-c port
- johnchristopher 6y ago
  While it's a good point I wouldn't call it a design tweak but an hardware improvement ^^.
anoplus 6y ago
Keeping a design unchanged is so underrated. I witness it most when giving technical support to the elderly. When they ask: "why did they changed it?!". I say: "because someone needed a job".
freepor 6y ago
Well I doubt that any of these have reached perfect design (the way that say, a can of Coca-Cola has) so we’d expect to see some minor changes. Hinges, ports, keyboard, etc etc
pizza234 6y ago
Although the updates released are very welcome, in my opinion, the Surface Book 3 has some significant problems. I get that due to the design, it will always be a heavy machine. But due to the hinge, the SB is not really a portable machine, at least in a modern sense. There's no technical justification for the bulkiness; other laptops implement(ed) the form factor with much more compact hinges (I owned at least one that did). It's huge even when in a backpack. It's ironic that this horrible hinge is the trademark of the machine. If they changed it, they would be essentially forced to sell it as a new line. The USB-C is also clearly a checklist feature, as it's not fully integrated: the charger has a Surface connect plug (AFAIK), and the tablet does not have a USB-C (I'm sure about this). This means 1. that the tablet needs the base to be charged through the base (but one can live with this), but worse, 2. that one needs to buy a separate USB-C charger (have fun with this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/7gj449/adventures_in_surface_book_2_charging https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/7gj449/adventures_...). Given the prices, and the fact that there is nothing comparable to the SB as tablet (maybe the Ipad), one could buy a cheap SB as large tablet. In this case, when traveling (with a separate laptop), one has to carry two chargers (or a hacky adapter, like I do). Check out the Microsoft Surface connect <> USB-C adapter: it's a joke. I personally think they sell few units, and that they're keeping the line as sort of "trophy laptop" (the prices are insane; for the same, you can buy much, much more powerful laptops of well known brands/lines).

lux 6y ago

The Quatro RTX 3000 Max-Q should make these a nice and slim VR-capable laptop option! Nice change from the heavy bricks we've had to carry around until now.

robotnikman 6y ago
Are the Quatro cards suitable for gaming? I've always been under the impression they tuned or modified more for use in CAD and similar applications
- kayoone 6y ago
  They are and they might be a tiny bit slower than their gaming tuned counterparts, but they are still capable of running games without issues.
- auxym 6y ago
  My understanding, at least in the past, is that it's the same hardware with different drivers. The drivers "guarantee" accurate rendering at cost of a bit of performance (maybe). At one point there were even hacks that allowed you to install the Quadro (it's quadro btw) drivers on gaming cards. The extra cost is mainly from getting the cards/drivers certified by every CAD/CAE software vendor as compatible, and possibly just extracting extra value from a market perceived as less cost-sensitive (ie, they are probably paying 10k/year at least just in CAE software licenses).
nruttnod 6y ago
The surfacebook 2 could not do vr with non windows mr headseats due to design changes that were made to make the tablet come off. I wonder if that is still the case with this one.
throwawaysea 6y ago
They aren't planning to sell the Quadro versions to customers directly, unfortunately, but only to business purchasers. If you go to the Microsoft site (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-book-3/8xbw9g3z71f1 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-book-3/8xbw9g3z71f...), the preorder configurations for personal use only include the relatively weak baseline GPUs they've chosen (1650 and 1660). I confirmed this again by talking to a sales rep over chat.

valine 6y ago

“Run Linux on Windows” Really fascinating seeing this in an official Microsoft ad.

alexmat 6y ago
Embrace. Extend. Extinguish. A phrase that the U.S. Department of Justice found was used internally by Microsoft to describe its strategy for entering product categories involving widely used standards, extending those standards with proprietary capabilities, and then using those differences in order to strongly disadvantage its competitors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...
- danielscrubs 6y ago
  "Office documents: In a memo to the Office product group in 1998, Bill Gates stated: "One thing we have got to change in our strategy — allowing Office documents to be rendered very well by other people's browsers is one of the most destructive things we could do to the company. We have to stop putting any effort into this and make sure that Office documents very well depends on PROPRIETARY IE capabilities. Anything else is suicide for our platform. This is a case where Office has to avoid doing something to destroy [sic] Windows." [14]" This explains the Word format. It was a good read!
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  You do realize that was over two decades ago? Almost no one from that time is still working there.
  - Teever 6y ago
    Why would you assume that the corporate culture has changed?
thdrdt 6y ago
It's smart. Give people freedom of choice for their OS and earn most money with services. I'm using .NET on Ubuntu and it just works perfect. So as a Linux user I am now connected to the Microsoft ecosystem. Balmer maybe made a fool of himself while dancing the 'developer developer developer', but he was right.

zitterbewegung 6y ago

The most striking issue is that Thunderbolt 3 isn't available for this refresh. Even stranger is that the 15' doesn't have Wifi6 either (because it uses a AMD CPU)?

yardie 6y ago
Still on Intel i7 Y processors according to the article.
binarycrusader 6y ago
Both the 13” and 15” have WiFi6: Wi-Fi 6: 802.11ax compatible Bluetooth Wireless 5.0 technology Xbox Wireless built-in (15” only)4 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-book-3/8xbw9g3z71f1 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-book-3/8xbw9g3z71f... Where do you see otherwise? You’re talking about the Surface Book 3 right? Which is also Intel only currently.
mips_avatar 6y ago
They claim lack of thunderbolt 3 is by design, for security reasons. I bet they just got their chips for surface connector working and they don't want to ditch them. The surface hub does work pretty well. One cable to everything. https://sup.news/microsoft-says-surface-devices-dont-have-thunderbolt-due-to-security-concerns/ https://sup.news/microsoft-says-surface-devices-dont-have-th...

pinacarlos90 6y ago

The lack of thunderbolt 3 on the SB3 makes Dell XPS 13 a better thin&light option

rkagerer 6y ago
The Surface 3 comes with a real NVidia GPU like the GeForce GTX 1650 or 1660 Ti. That's what got my attention (being able to run SolidWorks on a thin and lightweight machine has some appeal for traveling). Unless I'm mistaken, Dell's XPS 13 just has CPU integrated graphics (Intel Iris). So I wouldn't consider it better, unless I limited myself to a desk, tethered to an external GPU. I do wish the Surface had other, beefier components available (eg. larger SSD).

yardie 6y ago

For this price and the target market why are they not including TB3 and more ports? They are committed to keeping their users on their poorly designed dock connector when they are is a much better industry standard connector out there.

attqqq 6y ago
TB3 means that end user could attach their own egpu to a lower end (cheaper) model, and future proof it harder against potential SB4.. not to mention, that their proprietary connector only connects to their $300 dock! I feel like everyone can learn from their competitors, but here Microsoft is emulating only the worst parts of Apple
akadruid1 6y ago
I love my SB1 although it's far from perfect. The dock connector does grow on you. Unlike USB-C, when someone trips over your cable the dock connector pulls free. The design of the SB1 means you can charge the tablet or keyboard independently with the same connector. And the $300 dock, while expensive, is better than any USB-C dock I've seen at providing a clutter-free desk with single attachment.

HugoDaniel 6y ago

will it run linux (directly and not inside windows) ? (microsoft <3 linux right ?)

Wohlf 6y ago
I've used Manjaro and Ubuntu on my Surface Book 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux/

tw04 6y ago

No Ryzen 4 is a major letdown.

colejohnson66 6y ago
Probably contracts with Intel that haven’t expired.
- tw04 6y ago
  Then how did they manage to stick a Ryzen 3 in the Surface Laptop?

sylens 6y ago

I always look at the Surface Book and want it to be my next laptop, but I feel like it is a jack of all trades that doesn't really excel in any one area - and therefore, I have a hard time justifying it over other machines. Most powerful Surface ever? Sure, but the Macbook Pro 16" can give me double the cores at a similar pricepoint. Gaming-class GPU? Yeah, but if I wanted a gaming laptop I'd probably want something with an RTX card in it. And if I didn't care about form factor, I'd build a desktop. Detachable tablet? Interesting idea, but this feels highly impractical with the 15" version, which is the model I would get for maximum performance. I think if I was a college student, this would be a fantastic device. A little bit of everything and the ability to type notes in OneNote or handwrite them when necessary. But as my daily driver for productivity, I think there are better options at a similar price point.

filoleg 6y ago
I used the original Surface Book (13in) as a college student for a year, and I think you are spot-on. For me, as a student, it was a beautiful device. For that academic year, my notes were more impeccable and organized than I could have ever imagined my notes to be. OneNote is a pleasure to work with. Writing on Surface Book feels great. Downloading lecture pdfs/powerpoints and highlighting/annotating stuff on top of them was very useful. The machine ran fast enough for me to actually write code and use it as a normal machine too, with no limitations. As a daily driver, it was great. But all the cons you listed were true as well. My current daily driver is a newer MBP, but I still eye Surface line all the time, hoping that one day it will get to the point where I would want to pick it up again as my daily driver.
- sylens 6y ago
  I think it will take a hardware redesign at this point, which I hope comes with USB4 that allows them to break dock compatibility as well. The 15 inch version doesn't need to detach. Just let it flip around like a ThinkPad X1 Yoga, therefore allowing you to put all of the compute stuff in the base as well. Go for 8 cores and give me the best mobile video card on the market and I'll buy one so fast.

Der_Einzige 6y ago

The bezels on this (and macbooks) are still SO HUGE. Guess I'm gonna keep recommending that my friends buy XPS's until they figure out that big bezels are ugly.

lynguist 6y ago

Isn’t the 15W CPU strongly limiting compared to the 28/W45W CPU in Apple’s lineup?

claytongulick 6y ago

FWIW, I own both the SB1 and SB2, and it's been, hands down, the best hardware I've ever used (and I've been through a lot, including multiple generations of macs). Typing this on my SB2, which weighs next to nothing, is capable of good gaming, has acceptable battery life, and allows me to detach the monitor and use the pen while in client meetings and marking up docs. Best all-around machine ever.

lazyjeff 6y ago

Finally a laptop with a good (1080p) front-facing camera.

pedalpete 6y ago

I think the Surface Book design is getting a bit long in the tooth. I don't think it was ever a winner for style, and the hinge and gap are not only strange, but also make it feel like a thick machine for such a premium laptop. I normally love Microsoft hardware design, but the Surface Book is the one device that stands out as needing a change.

romwell 6y ago

Sigh is a traditional laptop smaller than an A4 sheet too much to wish for? I just want a Surface Go with a decently-sized SSD that I can hold by the keyboard, and there just doesn't seem to be a machine like that. (Or a Surface Book that is just a bit smaller)