6 ms·

Our Firebase and Google Cloud project was suspended over suspicious activity

64 points by eashish93 6y ago

random_savv 6y ago
This does make me think again that we should completely move off Firebase (still using auth & storage).
- blunte 6y ago
  It's not just about firebase, it's about Google services in general. We have heard so many of these calls for help on HN that it is clear that relying on Google services is like gambling with your business.
  - lima 6y ago
    Confirmation bias. GCP has millions of customers, these are very rare instances and we only ever hear one side of the story. It's not reasonable to make a business decision based on such anecdotes. Any other provider suspends accounts too - everyone has the same kind of abuse problem.
    - SparkyMcUnicorn 6y ago
      Then there's the flip-side to this. How many times does this happen, and the company doesn't post on social media about it? I think there's more people/companies in that category, but by a factor of how much.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      Why are the stories overwhelmingly about GCP even though it has much less marketshare than AWS/Azure?
julianlam 6y ago
> They have full control of your project. Correction, you _gave_ them full control of your project, when you decided to use their APIs and tooling as the literal backbone of your application. This is the tradeoff, and server administration is not something you can hack at, DevOps style. Proper external backups would've at least made switching away less painful. If you wish to have full control of your data, you have to co-locate your own servers and run things on bare metal. Though running things on the cloud is a trade-off that many of us have made.
- blunte 6y ago
  Nobody expects to be on the bad end of this situation, and the good side (all the services and features) are very tempting. Terms of service and other agreements do not justify the careless approach that Google takes toward it's customers and customer service. This situation should be resolved with capable humans in the Google business/account management group, but as we have seen so many times here on HN, that is not how Google operates.
euph0ria 6y ago
The company I work for has banned the use of Google Cloud due to how they treat their Play Store developers, in particular that there never seems to be any human being that you can talk to and find out what you need to do to fix the situation. We do not want the same to occur to our servers or if there is an overflow from Play Store ban to GCP etc. We use AWS instead who has so far been very good at the support side.
- t0ughcritic 6y ago
  Yes exactly this. They ban you and shame you as if you are 5 year old. This is why we don’t rely on Google either and are using less and less of their services.
dijit 6y ago
Isn't this the price of doing business? I'm not being facetious, but ops people have always decried giving up control of the platform and especially buying into lock-in to services that only exist in a particular cloud. If there's no corollary to firebase, and your app is built entirely on firebase, and they increase the price or change direction, you gotta go with it. I mean it's the definition of vendor lock-in; and it applies too when the political whims of the company change. IE; if you're making games and you're hosted on Azure, you have to have some level of knowledge that Microsoft makes games too, and that they could potentially subtly harm you if you're outcompeting them. Everyone knows that you "buy" time, you "buy" less burden of operation and you "buy" the fact that you're living at a higher abstraction and can move more rapidly; this is baked in to the extra cost of hosting with a cloud provider. Maybe people don't really know (or grok) that you also "sell" not only your competence, but your self reliance?
- blunte 6y ago
  People go this route because they do not understand the potential consequences. If it were published up front that x% of Google customers will get locked out and lose their business, I think you would see a lot fewer of these stories because Google would get a lot less business. People just are ignorant of the true risks here.
  - dijit 6y ago
    Realistically it's a very low number. It's a horrible lottery to play though.
  - elmo2you 6y ago
    I think you are right. At least to a large degree. I will never do business with cloud providers like these, but I know enough people who did and got burned. The pattern and results are usually very similar. While involving a different cloud provider, I recently read a long thread from a Amazon (re)seller that got his/her funds frozen. There was a lot of indignation, about how Amazon could treat him/her this way, while he/she was making more than a million dollar each month. Personally, I think that the level of arrogance, self-entitlement and hubris (not just of this seller, but also the fellow sellers chiming in) was the most remarkable about it all. Obviously very opportunistic, but suddenly full of moral judgment when "screwed over" by Amazon. I'm not so sure it's just ignorance of the true risks. The classic tale of "the scorpion and the frog" always comes to mind, when I read stories like these. /m2c
9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
I suspect there's more going on here than meets the eye: - This is the first post on a new blog by somebody without a full name or any social media presence that I can find (googling "amton gaming blockchain" returns zero hits) - The company/site in question is never named or linked to - They used somebody else's credit card and don't seem to have matching ID for it Is "blockchain gaming" code for an online casino or something? If so, this is likely against GCP terms of service.
- blunte 6y ago
  You are completely guessing this based on very little information. There is a strong chance that you are wrong. Is your goal just to throw mud? You ignore the point of the post - that Google can and will shut some clients down with little warning and even less recourse.
  - 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
    Do you disagree with any of the points I've raised? I know it's a common trope here that Google does evil things just for fun, but we've only got one side of the story here and there's been a number of previous cases here of apps getting kicked out for what turned out to be pretty understandable reasons.
    - blunte 6y ago
      No one said Google did this for fun. Google appears to prioritize automated systems and bottom line over care for it's customers. And whether any of your analysis about the customer is accurate is irrelevant and not worth debate here.
  - NikolaeVarius 6y ago
    "strong chance that you are wrong" Citation needed.
  - floatingatoll 6y ago
    If they’re doing so because it’s an unlicensed online gambling site trying to disguise itself from regulation using blockchains, then they absolutely are correctly exercising their freedom to refuse service, and the only news here relevant to HN would be “GCP shuts down blockchain casinos”, which would be great news.
unixhero 6y ago
Why are people persisting to Firebase? Is is it still solving a pain point?
- tehbeard 6y ago
  Mobile sync, if I understand correctly.
  - amelius 6y ago
    There's no open source equivalent? Lock-in could be the reason they're still using it.
    - tehbeard 6y ago
      The closest I can think of that I've used is CouchDB.. But it's not a turnkey solution, particularly with how ACL works (read granularity is at the database level)
    - mutant 6y ago
      GunDB is an opensource alternative
- lima 6y ago
  Realtime data access.
- arcturus17 6y ago
  Saves me even more time than an Express + Mongo setup.
noad 6y ago
The only time I ever got an email from a real human at google was when I tried out google cloud for a weekend when it first came out. I had a detailed plan to benchmark different instance types and compare them to AWS for an upcoming project. I got about two hours into this and my account was deactivated, one of the cloud engineers sent me a truly nasty email saying that bitcoin mining is not allowed on google cloud and I should stop abusing resources and being so irresponsible. I replied and asked how on earth they came to the conclusion I was a bitcoin miner and explained what I was actually doing, but never heard back from them again. It was so bizarre, I felt like I was back in the 3rd grade getting in trouble for knowing more about the Apples than the computer teacher.
- NullPrefix 6y ago
  Looks a lot like the whole mobile unlimited data thing. Advertised as one thing, but once you start using it as advertised, provider starts crying about you being an unfair user. FFS, no one is forcing you to offer this or that package, but how dare you accuse people of defrauding you when they just use whatever you offered. Just offer VMs that have 10% CPU time and that's it.
- mayank 6y ago
  > I got about two hours into this and my account was deactivated, one of the cloud engineers sent me a truly nasty email saying that bitcoin mining is not allowed on google cloud and I should stop abusing resources and being so irresponsible. This is a pretty big claim. It would be grossly inappropriate if true. Do you have any evidence to back it up?
  - ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
    I can say that crypto mining is prohibited during the free trial (and there are heuristics to detect it).
syshum 6y ago
>>We have some backup files, but it doesn’t enough, we’ve never planned to have an automatic backup on Google Cloud because we’ve never thought about this situation is occurring today Many companies are going to have learn this lesson the hard way, time after time see stories of companies under the impression that cloud == no need for backups.. its the cloud why would you need to back things up This way of thinking will burn many many companies, even worse when you use a SaaS product that has no ability to export data so you are locked in... those companies are screwed
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mutant 6y ago
Check out GunDB as a replacement for Firebase.

64 points by eashish93 6y ago

random_savv 6y ago

This does make me think again that we should completely move off Firebase (still using auth & storage).

blunte 6y ago
It's not just about firebase, it's about Google services in general. We have heard so many of these calls for help on HN that it is clear that relying on Google services is like gambling with your business.
- lima 6y ago
  Confirmation bias. GCP has millions of customers, these are very rare instances and we only ever hear one side of the story. It's not reasonable to make a business decision based on such anecdotes. Any other provider suspends accounts too - everyone has the same kind of abuse problem.
  - SparkyMcUnicorn 6y ago
    Then there's the flip-side to this. How many times does this happen, and the company doesn't post on social media about it? I think there's more people/companies in that category, but by a factor of how much.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Why are the stories overwhelmingly about GCP even though it has much less marketshare than AWS/Azure?

julianlam 6y ago

> They have full control of your project. Correction, you _gave_ them full control of your project, when you decided to use their APIs and tooling as the literal backbone of your application. This is the tradeoff, and server administration is not something you can hack at, DevOps style. Proper external backups would've at least made switching away less painful. If you wish to have full control of your data, you have to co-locate your own servers and run things on bare metal. Though running things on the cloud is a trade-off that many of us have made.

blunte 6y ago
Nobody expects to be on the bad end of this situation, and the good side (all the services and features) are very tempting. Terms of service and other agreements do not justify the careless approach that Google takes toward it's customers and customer service. This situation should be resolved with capable humans in the Google business/account management group, but as we have seen so many times here on HN, that is not how Google operates.

euph0ria 6y ago

The company I work for has banned the use of Google Cloud due to how they treat their Play Store developers, in particular that there never seems to be any human being that you can talk to and find out what you need to do to fix the situation. We do not want the same to occur to our servers or if there is an overflow from Play Store ban to GCP etc. We use AWS instead who has so far been very good at the support side.

t0ughcritic 6y ago
Yes exactly this. They ban you and shame you as if you are 5 year old. This is why we don’t rely on Google either and are using less and less of their services.

dijit 6y ago

Isn't this the price of doing business? I'm not being facetious, but ops people have always decried giving up control of the platform and especially buying into lock-in to services that only exist in a particular cloud. If there's no corollary to firebase, and your app is built entirely on firebase, and they increase the price or change direction, you gotta go with it. I mean it's the definition of vendor lock-in; and it applies too when the political whims of the company change. IE; if you're making games and you're hosted on Azure, you have to have some level of knowledge that Microsoft makes games too, and that they could potentially subtly harm you if you're outcompeting them. Everyone knows that you "buy" time, you "buy" less burden of operation and you "buy" the fact that you're living at a higher abstraction and can move more rapidly; this is baked in to the extra cost of hosting with a cloud provider. Maybe people don't really know (or grok) that you also "sell" not only your competence, but your self reliance?

blunte 6y ago
People go this route because they do not understand the potential consequences. If it were published up front that x% of Google customers will get locked out and lose their business, I think you would see a lot fewer of these stories because Google would get a lot less business. People just are ignorant of the true risks here.
- dijit 6y ago
  Realistically it's a very low number. It's a horrible lottery to play though.
- elmo2you 6y ago
  I think you are right. At least to a large degree. I will never do business with cloud providers like these, but I know enough people who did and got burned. The pattern and results are usually very similar. While involving a different cloud provider, I recently read a long thread from a Amazon (re)seller that got his/her funds frozen. There was a lot of indignation, about how Amazon could treat him/her this way, while he/she was making more than a million dollar each month. Personally, I think that the level of arrogance, self-entitlement and hubris (not just of this seller, but also the fellow sellers chiming in) was the most remarkable about it all. Obviously very opportunistic, but suddenly full of moral judgment when "screwed over" by Amazon. I'm not so sure it's just ignorance of the true risks. The classic tale of "the scorpion and the frog" always comes to mind, when I read stories like these. /m2c

9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago

I suspect there's more going on here than meets the eye: - This is the first post on a new blog by somebody without a full name or any social media presence that I can find (googling "amton gaming blockchain" returns zero hits) - The company/site in question is never named or linked to - They used somebody else's credit card and don't seem to have matching ID for it Is "blockchain gaming" code for an online casino or something? If so, this is likely against GCP terms of service.

blunte 6y ago
You are completely guessing this based on very little information. There is a strong chance that you are wrong. Is your goal just to throw mud? You ignore the point of the post - that Google can and will shut some clients down with little warning and even less recourse.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
  Do you disagree with any of the points I've raised? I know it's a common trope here that Google does evil things just for fun, but we've only got one side of the story here and there's been a number of previous cases here of apps getting kicked out for what turned out to be pretty understandable reasons.
  - blunte 6y ago
    No one said Google did this for fun. Google appears to prioritize automated systems and bottom line over care for it's customers. And whether any of your analysis about the customer is accurate is irrelevant and not worth debate here.
- NikolaeVarius 6y ago
  "strong chance that you are wrong" Citation needed.
- floatingatoll 6y ago
  If they’re doing so because it’s an unlicensed online gambling site trying to disguise itself from regulation using blockchains, then they absolutely are correctly exercising their freedom to refuse service, and the only news here relevant to HN would be “GCP shuts down blockchain casinos”, which would be great news.

unixhero 6y ago

Why are people persisting to Firebase? Is is it still solving a pain point?

tehbeard 6y ago
Mobile sync, if I understand correctly.
- amelius 6y ago
  There's no open source equivalent? Lock-in could be the reason they're still using it.
  - tehbeard 6y ago
    The closest I can think of that I've used is CouchDB.. But it's not a turnkey solution, particularly with how ACL works (read granularity is at the database level)
  - mutant 6y ago
    GunDB is an opensource alternative
lima 6y ago
Realtime data access.
arcturus17 6y ago
Saves me even more time than an Express + Mongo setup.

noad 6y ago

The only time I ever got an email from a real human at google was when I tried out google cloud for a weekend when it first came out. I had a detailed plan to benchmark different instance types and compare them to AWS for an upcoming project. I got about two hours into this and my account was deactivated, one of the cloud engineers sent me a truly nasty email saying that bitcoin mining is not allowed on google cloud and I should stop abusing resources and being so irresponsible. I replied and asked how on earth they came to the conclusion I was a bitcoin miner and explained what I was actually doing, but never heard back from them again. It was so bizarre, I felt like I was back in the 3rd grade getting in trouble for knowing more about the Apples than the computer teacher.

NullPrefix 6y ago
Looks a lot like the whole mobile unlimited data thing. Advertised as one thing, but once you start using it as advertised, provider starts crying about you being an unfair user. FFS, no one is forcing you to offer this or that package, but how dare you accuse people of defrauding you when they just use whatever you offered. Just offer VMs that have 10% CPU time and that's it.
mayank 6y ago
> I got about two hours into this and my account was deactivated, one of the cloud engineers sent me a truly nasty email saying that bitcoin mining is not allowed on google cloud and I should stop abusing resources and being so irresponsible. This is a pretty big claim. It would be grossly inappropriate if true. Do you have any evidence to back it up?
- ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
  I can say that crypto mining is prohibited during the free trial (and there are heuristics to detect it).

syshum 6y ago

>>We have some backup files, but it doesn’t enough, we’ve never planned to have an automatic backup on Google Cloud because we’ve never thought about this situation is occurring today Many companies are going to have learn this lesson the hard way, time after time see stories of companies under the impression that cloud == no need for backups.. its the cloud why would you need to back things up This way of thinking will burn many many companies, even worse when you use a SaaS product that has no ability to export data so you are locked in... those companies are screwed

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mutant 6y ago

Check out GunDB as a replacement for Firebase.