4 ms·

I don't believe for one second that it takes just a couple of weeks to an average SE to be proficient in Rust.

by Thaxll 7y ago

steveklabnik 7y ago
It really depends on so many factors it’s extremely hard to tell. We’ve brought folks at Cloudflare up to speed roughly that fast. “average” and “proficient” are both very variable in that statement, imho.
- sitkack 7y ago
  They started with >1 Klabnik units and every person you bring up, it creates a larger pool of folks to lean on for support.
  - steveklabnik 7y ago
    I can’t take credit here, while I am around to answer questions, getting folks going is not my job. It is true that we have a chat room with a bunch of folks, of which I’m part.
    - e12e 7y ago
      I wouldn't discount what gp is saying though - having an (or a few) experts on hand from the start, can help training the first new convert "the right way" and they can then mentor the next one and so on. Even just by being availabletto answer questions or help with code review. Doing some pair programming sessions would probably be useful too.
      - steveklabnik 7y ago
        Oh yeah, it’s helpful for sure. I just don’t want to take too much credit!
- amrx101 7y ago
  For me it was 3 to 4 months, I had switched from Golang to Rust. Its been 8 months now and I believe that I have hang of things now.
acdha 7y ago
Depends on your definition of average: I found that to be the case with significant programming experience with traditional languages (notably not something like Haskell) so I think it’s plausible since the compiler, editor, and documentation are rather above average for newcomers. In particular, Cargo providing a lot of easy tools and the compiler providing really helpful error messages seemed to be useful for the time to write a real first program which does something useful. Edit: one other big factor - presumably in their environment you have coworkers to get advice from. That’s huge when you’re first starting.
- monkpit 7y ago
  And your definition of “proficient”!
  - acdha 7y ago
    Yes, I’m using it in the sense of “can successfully develop a program which does the job” with the assumption that it’ll still take more time to do it quickly, use more advanced techniques, etc.
empath75 7y ago
IME it takes 2-3 months for a talented senior developer to get comfortable with it.
pas 7y ago
We became pretty comfy with it in less than a month in Aug 2017. (Let's say average guy had a few years of Python and this-and-that before that, and a ~5 year CS degree before that.) Sure, there was no async/await anywhere yet, but no crossbeam-channels either. And there were a lot less friendly tutorials and there were a bit more rough edges. (Especially that we did "IoT" so cross-compiling was ... an experience.)
aganame 7y ago
”Several weeks of hard effort”, they said. I can buy it, if they actually work hard and are basically competent. Rust is a difficult language in total, that’s for sure, but you can get a lot done without knowing it all.
dingo_bat 7y ago
Well this is Microsoft, so you can assume they are not average.

I don't believe for one second that it takes just a couple of weeks to an average SE to be proficient in Rust.

by Thaxll 7y ago

I don't believe for one second that it takes just a couple of weeks to an average SE to be proficient in Rust.

It really depends on so many factors it’s extremely hard to tell. We’ve brought folks at Cloudflare up to speed roughly that fast. “average” and “proficient” are both very variable in that statement, imho.

sitkack 7y ago
They started with >1 Klabnik units and every person you bring up, it creates a larger pool of folks to lean on for support.
- steveklabnik 7y ago
  I can’t take credit here, while I am around to answer questions, getting folks going is not my job. It is true that we have a chat room with a bunch of folks, of which I’m part.
  - e12e 7y ago
    I wouldn't discount what gp is saying though - having an (or a few) experts on hand from the start, can help training the first new convert "the right way" and they can then mentor the next one and so on. Even just by being availabletto answer questions or help with code review. Doing some pair programming sessions would probably be useful too.
    - steveklabnik 7y ago
      Oh yeah, it’s helpful for sure. I just don’t want to take too much credit!
amrx101 7y ago
For me it was 3 to 4 months, I had switched from Golang to Rust. Its been 8 months now and I believe that I have hang of things now.

acdha 7y ago

Depends on your definition of average: I found that to be the case with significant programming experience with traditional languages (notably not something like Haskell) so I think it’s plausible since the compiler, editor, and documentation are rather above average for newcomers. In particular, Cargo providing a lot of easy tools and the compiler providing really helpful error messages seemed to be useful for the time to write a real first program which does something useful. Edit: one other big factor - presumably in their environment you have coworkers to get advice from. That’s huge when you’re first starting.

monkpit 7y ago
And your definition of “proficient”!
- acdha 7y ago
  Yes, I’m using it in the sense of “can successfully develop a program which does the job” with the assumption that it’ll still take more time to do it quickly, use more advanced techniques, etc.

empath75 7y ago

IME it takes 2-3 months for a talented senior developer to get comfortable with it.

pas 7y ago

We became pretty comfy with it in less than a month in Aug 2017. (Let's say average guy had a few years of Python and this-and-that before that, and a ~5 year CS degree before that.) Sure, there was no async/await anywhere yet, but no crossbeam-channels either. And there were a lot less friendly tutorials and there were a bit more rough edges. (Especially that we did "IoT" so cross-compiling was ... an experience.)

aganame 7y ago

”Several weeks of hard effort”, they said. I can buy it, if they actually work hard and are basically competent. Rust is a difficult language in total, that’s for sure, but you can get a lot done without knowing it all.

dingo_bat 7y ago

Well this is Microsoft, so you can assume they are not average.