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This only demonstrates that people with high status in academia can admit ignorance and get a good result. I can speculate that the author would get very differ

This only demonstrates that people with high status in academia can admit ignorance and get a good result. I can speculate that the author would get very different results if he professed ignorance at his first job--I think coworkers who followed "fake it til you make it" would get promoted faster.

toohotatopic 6y ago
In the light of amelius's comment: Is the first promotion that relevant? If you learn faster by asking questions, you are a more skilled programmer much sooner. If your first employer doesn't honour that, you then have the skills to switch and earn according to your much higher skills at another company.
- deathgrips 6y ago
  Companies cannot perfectly measure your programming skill and most software companies don't conduct in depth algorithm interviews. Most of the hiring decision is based on your likability, social skills, previous job history (including job title and skills listed from that first promotion), and how you handle interview questions. You can bullshit your way very far in most of the software development world even if you're only 80% as good as your peers. If you have "junior developer" or "senior developer" on your resume but aren't as good as a "entry level developer", it's a moot point if you get called for an interview but the other guy doesn't.
- 0DHm2CxO7Lb3 6y ago
  Not only will you learn more but you'll also show your coworkers that you're enthusiastic about learning and that you are an honest person.
- p1necone 6y ago
  I don't know about others but in my experience if I get a new hire who doesn't ask any questions there's a good chance they've got no idea what they're doing. Nothing worse than having to constantly prompt someone to let you know that they're stuck because they refuse to say anything.
Topolomancer 6y ago
That's not necessarily my take from the story---but I can see where you are coming from! The prof was not saying that he does not know anything, he was just elucidating the 'boundaries' of his knowledge. My take was that you can be confident about the skills that you _do_ have, and honest about the skills you _don't_ have.
derriz 6y ago
I think this touches on a general point which the author misses. If you are already viewed as an alpha intellect in the group (or say you are viewed as one of the best software engineers in your company), then you have the luxury of being able to be modest and in fact expressing such modesty will even enhance your reputation among your peers. If you are somewhat insecure about your abilities or if your reputation is unestablished or you are not particularly recognised, then admitting ignorance in front of your peers is unlikely to enhance your reputation or feeling of self-worth. When I hear those at the top-of-the-hierarchy - whether in a management structure or in "technical ability" structure - being modest about their abilities or admitting ignorance, it often comes across as insincere to me.
matwood 6y ago
The fake till you make it people quickly top out. Someone who is afraid to admit they don't know something will end up not learning. My personal anecdote contrary to your point is my first programming interview. My answer to pretty much every question was "I don't know, but I'm excited to learn". I thought the interview went horribly, but I was offered the job. The owner who hired me (who ended up becoming a friend and we worked together at multiple companies), told me later that my confidence to say I didn't know something is what put me ahead of other candidates. Without knowing me well yet, he felt he would be able to trust me.
Aeolun 6y ago
The fake it till you make it people were always noticed on their first PR, and confirmed by their third (this would generally take weeks). Then we would schedule their termination.
- cutemonster 6y ago
  Which were the two most frequent weird things in their PRs?
coffeefirst 6y ago
Well, that depends, fakers tend to fail. But there's something to the status thing, and I think he illustrates it: if you have any status or credibility at all, you also have the ability to set the tone. And you probably should. The few managers and executives I've met with who can't take "I don't know" and "this was a mistake" in stride without losing their cool immediately start getting lied to and shielded from bad news.
- cutemonster 6y ago
  But if you combine faking, with blaming sbd else if fails

toohotatopic 6y ago

In the light of amelius's comment: Is the first promotion that relevant? If you learn faster by asking questions, you are a more skilled programmer much sooner. If your first employer doesn't honour that, you then have the skills to switch and earn according to your much higher skills at another company.

deathgrips 6y ago
Companies cannot perfectly measure your programming skill and most software companies don't conduct in depth algorithm interviews. Most of the hiring decision is based on your likability, social skills, previous job history (including job title and skills listed from that first promotion), and how you handle interview questions. You can bullshit your way very far in most of the software development world even if you're only 80% as good as your peers. If you have "junior developer" or "senior developer" on your resume but aren't as good as a "entry level developer", it's a moot point if you get called for an interview but the other guy doesn't.
0DHm2CxO7Lb3 6y ago
Not only will you learn more but you'll also show your coworkers that you're enthusiastic about learning and that you are an honest person.
p1necone 6y ago
I don't know about others but in my experience if I get a new hire who doesn't ask any questions there's a good chance they've got no idea what they're doing. Nothing worse than having to constantly prompt someone to let you know that they're stuck because they refuse to say anything.

Topolomancer 6y ago

That's not necessarily my take from the story---but I can see where you are coming from! The prof was not saying that he does not know anything, he was just elucidating the 'boundaries' of his knowledge. My take was that you can be confident about the skills that you _do_ have, and honest about the skills you _don't_ have.

derriz 6y ago

I think this touches on a general point which the author misses. If you are already viewed as an alpha intellect in the group (or say you are viewed as one of the best software engineers in your company), then you have the luxury of being able to be modest and in fact expressing such modesty will even enhance your reputation among your peers. If you are somewhat insecure about your abilities or if your reputation is unestablished or you are not particularly recognised, then admitting ignorance in front of your peers is unlikely to enhance your reputation or feeling of self-worth. When I hear those at the top-of-the-hierarchy - whether in a management structure or in "technical ability" structure - being modest about their abilities or admitting ignorance, it often comes across as insincere to me.

matwood 6y ago

The fake till you make it people quickly top out. Someone who is afraid to admit they don't know something will end up not learning. My personal anecdote contrary to your point is my first programming interview. My answer to pretty much every question was "I don't know, but I'm excited to learn". I thought the interview went horribly, but I was offered the job. The owner who hired me (who ended up becoming a friend and we worked together at multiple companies), told me later that my confidence to say I didn't know something is what put me ahead of other candidates. Without knowing me well yet, he felt he would be able to trust me.

Aeolun 6y ago

The fake it till you make it people were always noticed on their first PR, and confirmed by their third (this would generally take weeks). Then we would schedule their termination.

cutemonster 6y ago
Which were the two most frequent weird things in their PRs?

coffeefirst 6y ago

Well, that depends, fakers tend to fail. But there's something to the status thing, and I think he illustrates it: if you have any status or credibility at all, you also have the ability to set the tone. And you probably should. The few managers and executives I've met with who can't take "I don't know" and "this was a mistake" in stride without losing their cool immediately start getting lied to and shielded from bad news.

cutemonster 6y ago
But if you combine faking, with blaming sbd else if fails