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People in this thread are getting really hung up on the idea that someone with a bike == cycling enthusiast. In Europe a huge amount of people just own a bike.

by jamil7 7y ago

People in this thread are getting really hung up on the idea that someone with a bike == cycling enthusiast. In Europe a huge amount of people just own a bike. Often some beaten up thing they probably paid €30-200 for at a flea market or bike shop and use to commute or meet friends. Maybe it's fallen into a state where it's unrideable. The €50 is just a simple nudge for all those people to get it roadworthy so they can start using it again or sell it to somebody who will use it.

_jal 7y ago
> the idea that someone with a bike == cycling enthusiast Very common rhetorical technique. Not everyone who does this is calculating; a lot of people just parrot what they hear. But the goal of the messaging is to make marginalize, to make it sound like some tiny group whining about their hobby, which inconveniences "normal" (car driving) people. Turn it into a game - start talking about the motorist lobby as just another special interest, compare them to some other lobby your conversationalist will find distasteful - guns, animal rights, mountaintop removal, something will push their buttons. If you do it well, the cognitive dissonance is fun to watch. I don't ride my bike much anymore; have had repeated bad experiences with shithead motorists (live in SF) and just won't risk it anymore. But when I did, I never spent more than $100 on a bike, because it was just going to be stolen within a year.
- asjw 7y ago
  This is true, but bike market in US (for example) amounts to 47 billions with a prediction of 75 billions in 2025 Car market is much richer but most of it comes from second-hand retail, which is practically non existent for bikes. For comparison 45 billions is half of the market size of the tobacco industry and about the same size of the gun market. Not bad for an hobby and more similar to a lobby itself.
NicoJuicy 7y ago
> Often some beaten up thing they probably paid €30-200 for at a flea market or bike shop In Belgium, Belgian people buy mostly new ones in the range of 500-1000. People who don't earn much or students, buy the cheap/used bikes you mentioned. Electrical bikes are > 2000 € and pretty popular. In general, a whole family can bike together and it's very popular during the summer. We can bike were-ever we want during Covid as long as it's in the 25 km. range. I actually have 2 bikes ( 1 normal and 1 race bike) and a bike lending subscription when friends come over ( 1 € / bike / 24 hours for 12€ / year)
- Aeolun 7y ago
  > 1 € / bike / 24 hours for 12€ / year) At that price point it becomes hard to justify owning a bike yourself...
  - greeniron 7y ago
    unless they're really bad bikes
    - brenden2 7y ago
      I've ridden them, they're not bad, but it's better to have your own.
  - egypturnash 7y ago
    If you bike every weekday: (52 weeks/year * 5 days/week * 1€/day) + 12 = 272€. Add in however much you think these bits of hassle are worth: • various amounts of time spent looking for a bike, especially if you go somewhere they don't tend to cluster and someone else took the one you're using • bikeshare bikes are typically kind of heavy and clunky, possibly with solid tires that don't blow out but transmit every bump in the road to you • bikeshare bikes are usually one-size-fits-all, which I guess is fine if you're the perfectly average size, but they're always too small for me; an improperly-sized bike is harder to ride and can create more strain on your body And of course you can subtract maintenance costs, I'll pull 50€ out of my ass as a yearly number for that.
    - lostlogin 7y ago
      > bikeshare bikes are usually one-size-fits-all, which I guess is fine if you're the perfectly average size. I think they are tiny. I have wondered how they got this so wrong, but decided that it must be intentional. It prevents long journeys and limits the frequency of curb hopping and other damage causing activity.
      - djannzjkzxn 7y ago
koheripbal 7y ago
...but how is this controlled? Do they ask for a picture of the bike? ...or maybe it's a voucher for repair work? ...or are they just giving everyone 50EU? Answered my own question by READING THE ARTICLE... > A network of 3,000 registered mechanics will be set up, and €50 of repairs will be redeemable, such as tyre changes or chain replacements. The mechanics will provide the repairs and then be reimbursed by the government, meaning citizens will not actually receive any money TLDR: It is 50EU credit per repair job.
- koheripbal 7y ago
  nevermind.... > A network of 3,000 registered mechanics will be set up, and €50 of repairs will be redeemable, such as tyre changes or chain replacements. The mechanics will provide the repairs and then be reimbursed by the government, meaning citizens will not actually receive any money
  - olivermarks 7y ago
    It's basically a job creation scheme. Bicycles are easy to work on, whereas modern cars are highly complex and riddled with DRM issues.
chewz 7y ago
I have paid 40€ for my second-hand 1973 Peugeot road bike. Best bike I have ever had.
- amiga_500 7y ago
  These are really nice. Next "second bike" I get will be one of these.
- lostlogin 7y ago
  I lost my ‘70s Peugeot (I’ve no idea how that happens). Having the gears as little levers on the frame was user unfriendly but something I loved.
  - stouset 7y ago
    Friction levers. You can still get them! I built a touring bike with them because they’re comparatively cheap and very easy to maintain. They’re indexed (click into place at the center of each sprocket) but you can disable this feature quickly if you need to, which is nice if you’re forced to use a different cassette or there’s an issue with your cable. I absolutely love them. They wouldn’t work on a racing bike where you need to shift quickly without taking your hands off the bars but for a commuter or a touring bike they’re ideal.
djrogers 7y ago
> People in this thread are getting really hung up on the idea that someone with a bike == cycling enthusiast. I’m an American, and literally everyone I know owns at least one bike, and it’s rideable. I’m not even in a big city - in fact I live closer to cows and sheep than to anything resembling a skyscraper...
- michaelcampbell 7y ago
  > I’m an American, and literally everyone I know owns at least one bike, and it’s rideable. You are, far and away, an outlier.
  - AuryGlenz 7y ago
    I’m in a rural place and it’s the same for me - everyone has a bike, or even multiple bikes.
  - djrogers 7y ago
    I really don’t think so - according to this 92% of Americans own one: https://www.statista.com/statistics/693817/percentage-of-people-in-households-who-own-a-bike-in-us-by-type/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/693817/percentage-of-peo...
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago
  Me2
Zenst 7y ago
> The €50 is just a simple nudge for all those people to get it roadworthy so they can start using it again or sell it to somebody who will use it. Certainly do more to increase bike usage and keep the momentum of usage going than any marketing thing. What would be nice would be better incentive to use public transport and to not use cars, we have used the stick with taxes for a while, carrots like this can only work better. If they could get that balance right and maybe focus on cheaper public transport, incentivise ride sharing and bikes, more so bikes over electric as they are more accessible to the whole populus, not just those who can afford to cash in on incentives out of many peoples reach. Been all well having subsidies for solar paanels, electric cars, but when the outlay and means to get those put those out of the reach for so many, let alone people who rent, or indeed walk or cycle. Perhaps the focus would perhaps incentivise using less electricity, incentivise public transport and bicycles, not just expensive hire bikes for hipsters in which most will end up being stolen by those who can't afford to access them via other means. But this initiative as a one off is both timely and good on many levels as you say, getting unused bicycles into action over the whole disposable mentality of most objects, is fantastic. Also nice boom for the bicycle repair industry, though unsure how they have been impacted by things currently.
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  At least in the Parisian context, moving people to bikes is probably the most cost effective way to green transport, since the trains are all packed to the gills and getting some people on bikes is a cheaper way of making space than spending billions of euros on new lines (which they are also doing, but it's good to have more than one arrow in the quiver.)
  - Zenst 7y ago
    I was thinking more about buses, had a look and https://www.ratp.fr/en/plan-bus https://www.ratp.fr/en/plan-bus More useful in replacing cars in many area's, as using existing infrastructure, unlike trains.
    - bobthepanda 7y ago
teekert 7y ago
Sounds about right, the bike I use for my daily commute from the train station to the place I work needs things like new tires, new brakes, some new spokes etc about every 1-2 years. Usually totaling around 50 euro. For that amount a good bike repair shop can do a lot for a bike.
agumonkey 7y ago
Those 50 might actually make my bike rideable again.

by jamil7 7y ago

_jal 7y ago

> the idea that someone with a bike == cycling enthusiast Very common rhetorical technique. Not everyone who does this is calculating; a lot of people just parrot what they hear. But the goal of the messaging is to make marginalize, to make it sound like some tiny group whining about their hobby, which inconveniences "normal" (car driving) people. Turn it into a game - start talking about the motorist lobby as just another special interest, compare them to some other lobby your conversationalist will find distasteful - guns, animal rights, mountaintop removal, something will push their buttons. If you do it well, the cognitive dissonance is fun to watch. I don't ride my bike much anymore; have had repeated bad experiences with shithead motorists (live in SF) and just won't risk it anymore. But when I did, I never spent more than $100 on a bike, because it was just going to be stolen within a year.

asjw 7y ago
This is true, but bike market in US (for example) amounts to 47 billions with a prediction of 75 billions in 2025 Car market is much richer but most of it comes from second-hand retail, which is practically non existent for bikes. For comparison 45 billions is half of the market size of the tobacco industry and about the same size of the gun market. Not bad for an hobby and more similar to a lobby itself.

NicoJuicy 7y ago

> Often some beaten up thing they probably paid €30-200 for at a flea market or bike shop In Belgium, Belgian people buy mostly new ones in the range of 500-1000. People who don't earn much or students, buy the cheap/used bikes you mentioned. Electrical bikes are > 2000 € and pretty popular. In general, a whole family can bike together and it's very popular during the summer. We can bike were-ever we want during Covid as long as it's in the 25 km. range. I actually have 2 bikes ( 1 normal and 1 race bike) and a bike lending subscription when friends come over ( 1 € / bike / 24 hours for 12€ / year)

Aeolun 7y ago
> 1 € / bike / 24 hours for 12€ / year) At that price point it becomes hard to justify owning a bike yourself...
- greeniron 7y ago
  unless they're really bad bikes
  - brenden2 7y ago
    I've ridden them, they're not bad, but it's better to have your own.
- egypturnash 7y ago
  If you bike every weekday: (52 weeks/year * 5 days/week * 1€/day) + 12 = 272€. Add in however much you think these bits of hassle are worth: • various amounts of time spent looking for a bike, especially if you go somewhere they don't tend to cluster and someone else took the one you're using • bikeshare bikes are typically kind of heavy and clunky, possibly with solid tires that don't blow out but transmit every bump in the road to you • bikeshare bikes are usually one-size-fits-all, which I guess is fine if you're the perfectly average size, but they're always too small for me; an improperly-sized bike is harder to ride and can create more strain on your body And of course you can subtract maintenance costs, I'll pull 50€ out of my ass as a yearly number for that.
  - lostlogin 7y ago
    > bikeshare bikes are usually one-size-fits-all, which I guess is fine if you're the perfectly average size. I think they are tiny. I have wondered how they got this so wrong, but decided that it must be intentional. It prevents long journeys and limits the frequency of curb hopping and other damage causing activity.
    - djannzjkzxn 7y ago

koheripbal 7y ago

...but how is this controlled? Do they ask for a picture of the bike? ...or maybe it's a voucher for repair work? ...or are they just giving everyone 50EU? Answered my own question by READING THE ARTICLE... > A network of 3,000 registered mechanics will be set up, and €50 of repairs will be redeemable, such as tyre changes or chain replacements. The mechanics will provide the repairs and then be reimbursed by the government, meaning citizens will not actually receive any money TLDR: It is 50EU credit per repair job.

koheripbal 7y ago
nevermind.... > A network of 3,000 registered mechanics will be set up, and €50 of repairs will be redeemable, such as tyre changes or chain replacements. The mechanics will provide the repairs and then be reimbursed by the government, meaning citizens will not actually receive any money
- olivermarks 7y ago
  It's basically a job creation scheme. Bicycles are easy to work on, whereas modern cars are highly complex and riddled with DRM issues.

chewz 7y ago

I have paid 40€ for my second-hand 1973 Peugeot road bike. Best bike I have ever had.

amiga_500 7y ago
These are really nice. Next "second bike" I get will be one of these.
lostlogin 7y ago
I lost my ‘70s Peugeot (I’ve no idea how that happens). Having the gears as little levers on the frame was user unfriendly but something I loved.
- stouset 7y ago
  Friction levers. You can still get them! I built a touring bike with them because they’re comparatively cheap and very easy to maintain. They’re indexed (click into place at the center of each sprocket) but you can disable this feature quickly if you need to, which is nice if you’re forced to use a different cassette or there’s an issue with your cable. I absolutely love them. They wouldn’t work on a racing bike where you need to shift quickly without taking your hands off the bars but for a commuter or a touring bike they’re ideal.

djrogers 7y ago

> People in this thread are getting really hung up on the idea that someone with a bike == cycling enthusiast. I’m an American, and literally everyone I know owns at least one bike, and it’s rideable. I’m not even in a big city - in fact I live closer to cows and sheep than to anything resembling a skyscraper...

michaelcampbell 7y ago
> I’m an American, and literally everyone I know owns at least one bike, and it’s rideable. You are, far and away, an outlier.
- AuryGlenz 7y ago
  I’m in a rural place and it’s the same for me - everyone has a bike, or even multiple bikes.
- djrogers 7y ago
  I really don’t think so - according to this 92% of Americans own one: https://www.statista.com/statistics/693817/percentage-of-people-in-households-who-own-a-bike-in-us-by-type/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/693817/percentage-of-peo...
JoeAltmaier 7y ago
Me2

Zenst 7y ago

> The €50 is just a simple nudge for all those people to get it roadworthy so they can start using it again or sell it to somebody who will use it. Certainly do more to increase bike usage and keep the momentum of usage going than any marketing thing. What would be nice would be better incentive to use public transport and to not use cars, we have used the stick with taxes for a while, carrots like this can only work better. If they could get that balance right and maybe focus on cheaper public transport, incentivise ride sharing and bikes, more so bikes over electric as they are more accessible to the whole populus, not just those who can afford to cash in on incentives out of many peoples reach. Been all well having subsidies for solar paanels, electric cars, but when the outlay and means to get those put those out of the reach for so many, let alone people who rent, or indeed walk or cycle. Perhaps the focus would perhaps incentivise using less electricity, incentivise public transport and bicycles, not just expensive hire bikes for hipsters in which most will end up being stolen by those who can't afford to access them via other means. But this initiative as a one off is both timely and good on many levels as you say, getting unused bicycles into action over the whole disposable mentality of most objects, is fantastic. Also nice boom for the bicycle repair industry, though unsure how they have been impacted by things currently.

bobthepanda 7y ago
At least in the Parisian context, moving people to bikes is probably the most cost effective way to green transport, since the trains are all packed to the gills and getting some people on bikes is a cheaper way of making space than spending billions of euros on new lines (which they are also doing, but it's good to have more than one arrow in the quiver.)
- Zenst 7y ago
  I was thinking more about buses, had a look and https://www.ratp.fr/en/plan-bus https://www.ratp.fr/en/plan-bus More useful in replacing cars in many area's, as using existing infrastructure, unlike trains.
  - bobthepanda 7y ago

teekert 7y ago

Sounds about right, the bike I use for my daily commute from the train station to the place I work needs things like new tires, new brakes, some new spokes etc about every 1-2 years. Usually totaling around 50 euro. For that amount a good bike repair shop can do a lot for a bike.

agumonkey 7y ago

Those 50 might actually make my bike rideable again.