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How to avoid Amazon: guide to online shopping

490 points by Aaronmacaron 6y ago

coding123 6y ago
I have done most of my pandemic shopping on Amazon, but have had luck with 4/5 externally run sites, most of which are on shopify. In the first 3 weeks after the first shelter in place orders, Amazon was about a week slower than the rest. Now it switched, and it seems Amazon is faster again. However I am now regularly doing business with a few other sites that have products Amazon doesn't.
robotbikes 6y ago
This article is very focused on the UK but its still possible to try and avoid supporting Amazon if you are willing to pay for shipping or use alternative outlets like EBay although many of those selling on that platform still use Amazon for fulfillment.
- g42gregory 6y ago
  Well, I tried to buy an item from eBay 3 weeks ago. eBay said the article was shipped few days after the purchase. 3 weeks later, nothing came. I asked the vendor, what happened, can you give me the tracking number? The vendor's reply: "our supplier haven't given us the tracking number yet." You mean to tell me that the item hasn't been shipped yet, despite that you told me it did 3 weeks ago? Yep. That's eBay.
  - GuiA 6y ago
    On the other hand, eBay customer support is very friendly to buyers. Open a case the day after the advertised delivery, you will get refunded. As a long time seller/buyer I’ve developed a set of heuristics around eBay (most of them obvious - avoid non US based accounts, descriptions where the photos are clearly not the actual item itself, etc) and I’ve only had one or two bad surprises in over 10 years. Both times customer support came through.
    - FireBeyond 6y ago
      A little _too_ friendly. A buyer screwed me out of 5 drone (DJI Mavic 2) batteries and $700. Two weeks after getting the drone, “none of the batteries work”. Really? All five? I was skeptical, but said I’d do a partial refund if he’d commit in writing that the partial refund was contingent on him returning the batteries so I could repair, or replace (at least two were still in warranty, if there was ever even a problem). At no point did he show any actual evidence of battery issues (DJI Go battery diagnostics, etc.), just "it's not showing anything". He sent a message agreeing, via eBay messages with the text I'd sent him, even with "should I not do this, I understand that seller will dispute the transaction". Not even an hour later he sent another message “USPS won’t ship damaged batteries so I am not returning them”. I went to eBay with all this, and his agreement. eBay said he could keep the $700. And the five batteries.
  - coopsmgoops 6y ago
    eBay is a mixed bag, you should review the seller accordingly. Some are good some are not. Items coming from independent sellers on Amazon could be the same.
  - pcan77 6y ago
    I had this problem maybe once in my life using eBay. The other 99% of the time it has worked great, but I'm sorry you had a bad experience :(
- acwan93 6y ago
  >although many of those selling on that platform still use Amazon for fulfillment. That’s what makes me weary that there’s any way you can truly avoid Amazon. For many sellers it’s just easier to outsource their warehousing and fulfillment operations to FBA and use Amazon’s warehouse as a 3PL (third party logistics), and I wouldn’t be surprised if <random eBay/Shopify seller> used Amazon for fulfillment purposes.
inson 6y ago
It's like "Let's buy something not made in China"... Amazon is very convenient and at some point addictive (same day or 2 days delivery) way of online shopping. They got big enough that now they can dictate rules. So unless some other company with really great customer service, delivery speed, and return policy comes up, Amazon will be dominant in the US and Europe. Alibaba/AliExpress is an asian amazon.
Tiktaalik 6y ago
If you want your mom n' pop shops to survive this thing consider them first. You'd be surprised how many are probably doing deliveries. It's awfully low tech, but the local indie book shop here in Vancouver will order any book you ask for and deliver it throughout Metro Vancouver. All you need to do is call them and ask.
- justicezyx 6y ago
  "Call them and ask" We all know how frustrating and time-wasting it can be, when calling for professional service... In the end, it's still a tech problem. Amazon has the tech, and the customer base to form a virtuous cycle. The smaller shop dont have that. We need more Shopify like supplier, with varying degrees of sophistication and targeted customer groups.
  - rchaud 6y ago
    I've found the opposite. Calling is a waste of time when you're dialing a megacorp like your phone company or utilities provider, because they treat customer service as a cost center and do everything possible to prevent you from talking to a human who isn't reading off a script. Smaller shops will usually have someone who just picks up the phone when you call.
    - alanbernstein 6y ago
      The thing is, "call them and ask" can be a 10-minute chore if you're looking for some oddball item from a local supplier, or a 10-second search on Amazon.
      - Pfhreak 6y ago
        My local bookstore has 'email them and ask', which is much lower friction.
        jcrben 6y ago
        lol I expect the successful ones will have decent ecommerce platform within the new few years.
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rchaud 6y ago
Title should be updated to specify that this is UK only. The Guardian is UK-based but covers international news as well.
- zenlot 6y ago
  If it was US focused, would it be ok to not have US in the title?
  - enitihas 6y ago
    HN has San Francisco specific stuff with nothing in title indicating that sometimes, leave alone the US. I think most people just assume it is about US anyways.
  - rchaud 6y ago
    If the article was about US-based alternatives to Amazon, then no, it wouldn't be OK. The same principle would apply.
maw 6y ago
Step 1: Live somewhere where online shopping other than with Amazon actually works. (You can think what you want about Amazon, but it's a remarkably provincial piece.)
- pm215 6y ago
  It's a piece in a UK newspaper: obviously they're going to focus on the situation for most of their readers and the options that somebody in the UK might have for online shopping. It's not trying to be a survey of the whole global online shopping market or a resource for people in Brazil or Turkey, and frankly it would be an entirely different and much less useful article if it attempted that.
  - thayne 6y ago
    > much less useful depends on who you are. If you live in the UK, sure. If you live anywhere else, this article is not very useful.
    - Apocryphon 6y ago
      The "definitive guide" title is an exaggeration, but the article mentions U.S. alternatives like Target and Sephora.
    - pm215 6y ago
      I think an attempt at a world-spanning set of recommendations would have been spread so thinly as to be useless for everybody, even if in theory it covered their region. I think it's better to have an article that picks a country/region to focus on and does that in depth. Some other journalists/newspapers can handle doing similar articles for the US, Japan, Germany, etc, and as local journos they'll have more experience of what they're writing about and a wider array of contacts to get good suggestions from.
beloch 6y ago
Given how much Bezos has added to his personal net worth during the pandemic ($24B [1]), perhaps its time for governments to expect better treatment for Amazon employees... or else. Charges of pandemic profiteering could be convincingly brought to bear. [1]https://fortune.com/2020/04/14/jeff-bezos-net-worth-2020-billionaires-amzn-amazon-stock/ https://fortune.com/2020/04/14/jeff-bezos-net-worth-2020-bil...
- nojito 6y ago
  I would expect HN of all places to know the difference between paper and liquid net worth. People are stuck at home and as result are forced to shop online which results in increase revenue for the largest online commerce store.
  - TaylorAlexander 6y ago
    And? With increased revenue Amazon can probably afford to pay their workers more.
    - TylerE 6y ago
      Why? Their margins haven’t changed. If anything, they’re tighter than usual due to extra precautions
      - TaylorAlexander 6y ago
        Well, it’s more like they should have been paying their workers more for a while. Now is as good a time as any to make good on a well deserved compensation increase.
        rsj_hn 6y ago
        Why do you think they should pay their workers more? Do you have data that they are paying below market wages? If they are paying below market wages, then how are they able to hire so many people? Median pay for Amazon is $14 per hour, whereas median hourly wage for warehouse employees is $13, so it appears that Amazon pays a small premium over the market wage. What makes you so special that your gut feeling of Amazon is something that people should pay attention to, rather than market wages?
flavor8 6y ago
I tried shopping Newegg recently (BC). Newegg's online customer service made Amazon's look positively erudite, and in addition Newegg's return policy is terrible by comparison. I still haven't received an item that I ordered 7 weeks ago (shipping was not advertised as being particularly slow), and I still haven't been refunded for another item that I returned 2 weeks ago. Amazon gets that if you can't touch the item in store, there should be a no-fault return policy (and yes, I know that returns are environmentally unfriendly, etc). I tried to shop Jet (before they were acquired) and I found the search / shop experience had too much friction. Amazon's UI has plenty of annoyances, but they've made it _real_ easy to get something into your cart and check out. On the other hand, all of my music studio purchases I make at Sweetwater. Great customer service, free shipping, will price match if you ask, and frictionless returns. IMO Amazon is vulnerable to good competitors, but the emphasis is on good. I can tolerate a small shipping fee, and I don't need next day or two day shipping (although it's nice). On the other hand if you make it hard for me to shop, customer service sucks, or I have to jump through hoops to return something, I'll go back to Amazon.
- gregmac 6y ago
  Did you order Newegg or third-party? So many stores, Newegg included, are trying to be a 'platform' or something and allow third party sellers, but it makes the buying experience awful. Arguably the worst things about buying from Amazon all derive from third-party sellers: long shipping times (from China, generally), commingled inventory, counterfeit products, faked/swapped listings... Companies like Newegg should be explicitly doing the opposite as a competitive advantage -- yet they seem to be copying. I don't get it.
  - flavor8 6y ago
    Yeah, one of the items was third party, one was Newegg. But I agree - you can't outcompete Amazon by trying to be Amazon. Sweetwater (who I mentioned upthread) are great because they do musical instruments (and related) and nothing else. Deep domain knowledge, rich and well organized catalog, community of music nerds, and (as far as I've noticed) no third party junk. A Newegg could theoretically do the same for computers and peripherals. (Find me all motherboards compatible with i7 and ddr4, with usbc, blinkenlights and onboard wifi - much easier on Newegg than Amazon, but unfortunately it suffers from the aforementioned issues).
intopieces 6y ago
If you're in the Bay Area and need more computer things, give Central Computers a try. Their website is delightfully simple. This article recommends hitting up major brands on their websites, which is ok for all of them except Dell. Dell's website is an absolute shitshow. I've been using Google Express and liked it quite a bit.
- clairity 6y ago
  yes to central computers, meh to dell, and heck no to google. support independently-owned businesses not trying to corner the market on all your personal data.
Zenst 6y ago
Given https://www.marketwatch.com/story/facebook-google-amazon-to-be-hit-with-new-2-uk-digital-service-tax-2020-03-11 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/facebook-google-amazon-to-... Then why is this not only overlooked by this article, but not even touched upon. That I find most curious.
dude3 6y ago
Been buying a lot of stuff on eBay. On the app, you can filter by Guaranteed Delivery 1 to 4 days. If it doesn't make it by the guaranteed date, you get a $5 credit to your eBay account. It's also frequently cheaper for new stuff. For example, water bottles and bluetooth adapters.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  And if you really want to save money and have patience, just sort by Price + Shipping: Lowest First.
birdyrooster 6y ago
How to avoid Amazon: Try shopping for anything and you will find it's all sold out or delayed by a month.
rad_gruchalski 6y ago
In Germany: go to Amazon.de, search for the product. Check if it’s available from third party sellers. Copy the seller’s name, google for their online shop. If they have one, buy direct. Bit clunky but pretty often cheaper.
- rv-de 6y ago
  I do that, too, but only as a last resort. Usually idealo or Google is sufficient to track a shop down.
- unnouinceput 6y ago
  Also pay on delivery, make the delivery guy wait 5 minutes and open the package -> test 5 minutes for obvious flaws. This is the best way and cheaper. Do treat the delivery guy with something though, I usually offer homemade sweets and/or free alcohol beer. They deserve it.
palijer 6y ago
Let's hope none of those sites use AWS...
Theodores 6y ago
Normally the media in the UK can't have 'how to avoid retailer x' articles as that means 'retailer x' isn't going to place adverts in their paper. However, online, I imagine it does not matter, ads just arrive without negotiation between 'retailer x' and the publication/paper. Currently avoiding Amazon however I can't get a garden sieve/riddle in my preferred local store. So I have to go on Amazon if I really want one. My local store has a sieve for £5 when in stock. That is all the sieve options, take it or leave it. The decision is easy. But, on Amazon, there is paralysis of choice. Hundreds of sieves to choose from, invariably more expensive than the £5 local store price. With shipping on top. The choice works with books but not with everything. A decent retailer only sells top quality stuff with an affordable option and maybe a super deluxe option, so your choice is between a small amount of items. Amazon doesn't help with that.
Polylactic_acid 6y ago
Is avoiding Amazon so hard that a guide is needed? I have only ever purchased something from Amazon once because someone gave me a gift card. It wasn't any cheaper or more convenient than ebay so I'm not sure what the craze over Amazon is about.
bradlys 6y ago
Do people not know how to shop online outside of Amazon? I'm not paying more to buy things through other platforms. If something is the same price on Amazon as it is elsewhere - the other place will lose until they have faster shipping or some other benefit. And this is coming from someone who buys a lot of stuff elsewhere and does a lot more than the average consumer when it comes to shopping. I do buy stuff elsewhere frequently. (I just spent $600 on soldering equipment through TEquipment, Louis Rossman's store, and some Amazon stuff because I couldn't find the stuff elsewhere for cheaper) The reason I do it isn't because I'm anti-Amazon - I buy stuff through various sources because I'm a thoroughbred slickdealer. (And you can bet your butt I looked up all those items to see if there were ever any deals on them or if I could get them used for cheaper - odd stuff doesn't get posted much about, sadly) So, yeah, I buy stuff outside of Amazon... However, I'm a bit annoyed because I feel like the quality control is really bad at other sources far too often. With some shops I feel like they're gonna call me up and say, "Hey, I noticed you bought X, Y, and Z, do you want to buy this too?" And this just pads delivery time by days. They're slow to ship often enough as well. You buy an item online but you didn't know the shop was closed for 2 weeks. Sometimes - it's good. I remember I got $100 off my vacuum cleaner because they offered free overnight shipping for these vacuum cleaners - but I could get $100 off the price if I chose ground shipping. (Not an option online) That was worth knowing but that's rare! Most of the time I get a call like, "I noticed you bought X which is an accessory to Y, and Y wasn't in your order, do you want to buy Y?" No, of course not. I didn't buy Y because you charge too much for it and I can get it for cheaper elsewhere! On top of this - even big names mess up too often! I tried to buy an Elgato capture card off through Bestbuy this last week. It wasn't even available anywhere else except Bestbuy. I used Google Shopping in the process because it was quicker/easier than going through Bestbuy's website. In the end - I got shipped a god damn microwave that I had to return today via UPS. Huge pain in the ass. I had to go to the local UPS store twice because I went too early (never thought that would happen!) to the UPS store the first time. (They're open 11-5) Yes, that stuff could happen with Amazon but I feel like they might have slightly better inventory management than that and would recognize when a 50lb+ item is being shipped instead of a 1lb. Surprisingly, the shipping labels (both ways) were only for objects < 5lbs. And yet UPS took them both times. Target - same crap. Order something for store pickup even - no go. They cancel the order days later saying it isn't in stock. Home Depot? Fulfills half your order when you clearly need the whole thing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22795970 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22795970 I avoid store pickup when I can now. It's usually faster for me to find the item(s) in store and go through self-checkout than to wait in line at pickup. I'm not pro-Amazon but I am not pro-poor experience for the same or more price. There's a reason Amazon is doing well compared to the competition and it's because they've made it much lower friction.
shamdasani 6y ago
I recently found out of a site (https://syessa.com https://syessa.com) selling household items (hand soap, detergent, dish liquid, etc.) at equal to or cheaper prices than Amazon. Better to support small businesses! I ordered from them last thursday and received my order today.
rv-de 6y ago
I haven't bought from Amazon in about three years. And I'm ordering online quite a lot. Only this month: a bike (boc24.de), bike equipment (nanobike.de), several books (booklooker.de, medimops.de, thalia.de, hugendubel.de), a Whisky (mcgin.de), a pizza stone (otto.de), USB microskope (digitalo.de) ... No problem or hassle whatsoever. I just find a shop (usually idealo), then I order - done. It's so simple, there's not much to write about - lest a guide. > You can often cut out the middleman if you are buying electronics. For computers, phones and TVs, Dell, Apple and Samsung are all offering free delivery on their products That's why the guide goes beyond its purported goal and tries to avoid other shops as well? > Environmentally friendly cleaning products, pet food and baby gear are available at Ethicalsupermarket.com. Standard delivery in the UK is free on orders over £50, or £3.95 on smaller orders. Then specific shops and information about shipping? Whatever - useless text. Just order somewhere else. It's that easy. (at least in Germany) (yes, I hate Amazon - yes, I make a living with AWS) --- Special love goes to: - booklooker.de - medimops.de - notebookgalerie.de - thalia.de - mcgin.de
- augstein 6y ago
  Ordering from Apple or Samsung directly, as suggested by the article, even is something to avoid, unless you like paying a premium (usually you can find their products about 10-30% cheaper somewhere else).
  - wenc 6y ago
    Curious, where does one get products cheaper than Apple.com? (I believe Apple controls the prices third party resellers can set) I've seen the occasional markdown on Amazon and MacMall but Apple's prices are generally pretty standard.
    - abiogenesis 6y ago
      Here in Australia, for example, you can buy grey imports (i.e. not imported by Apple, Samsung etc) for much cheaper. With some brands you only get a store warranty, but sometimes you might even get full manufacturer international warranty.
flatTheCurve 6y ago
I found Walmart online cheaper than anything, including in store prices. Since that wasn't mentioned, is this basically an affiliate list?
justlexi93 6y ago
I love Amazon because you can find the majority of the products that you are looking for from this online platform. The usual stuff that I buy from them is food especially now that the pandemic is on-going. There are other alternative online shops to choose from but they are still my favorite. Moving on, if you guys are planning to modify your car at home feel free to check out: https://4wheelonline.com https://4wheelonline.com
ARandomerDude 6y ago
My books from Amazon almost always arrive bent, dirty, etc. I order from the publishers whenever possible.
- mttjj 6y ago
  How do you find the prices? I’ve only ever looked on Amazon but even for new releases they seem to be considerably discounted from the publisher’s list price.
  - ARandomerDude 6y ago
    Good question. It depends on the publisher. I usually look up both. If Amazon is significantly cheaper (tens of dollars), then I'll order from Amazon. If they send me garbage, I'll order from the publisher and return the Amazon book. I may be in a niche circumstance, but most of the books I order from the publishers are within about $5 of Amazon. I don't know the exact count, but I have approximately 600 books. Worth it to have nice ones!
electriclove 6y ago
For many hardware and photography needs, I will choose B&H instead of Amazon.
- villson 6y ago
  Not only photography, anything dropped shipped from a warehouse. For example, if I need a printer or laptop in a pinch B&H will get it to me pretty quick. Pretty much anything electronics wise they are great source. Going back to photography, you totally trust B&H. You know the equipment has been treated well since it arrived from the factory. No chance of grey market stuff either.
troughway 6y ago
It’s a nice touch by The Guardian to write this article but given how much Amazon has benefited from this epidemic, I do not think any kind of individual vigilantism will really work here. You’re not even a drop in the bucket for them and most people do not care. If anything, thanks to them being a go-to platform, they’ve single handedly allowed a lot of third party shops to sell their inventory, and have come out net positive as a result. I don’t mean to sound as an apologist saying this - just stating the bloody obvious. The “vote with your wallet” rhetoric doesn’t work. It’s half past feel good bullshit. If you want these companies to change it must be codified into the law and backed up by hard time. But good luck with that, since China is a massive trade partner and every country is turning a blind eye to them imprisoning people in concentration camps and harvesting organs. It’s unlikely The States are going to have a change of heart anytime soon.
- Aperocky 6y ago
  vote with your wallet is like actual voting. Where you inconvenience yourself for some time to line up in a booth to select someone who you more likely just hated less. Now imagine doing that all day every day, the inconveniences each time might be smaller, but hey, Amazon is always there. The 'voter turnout' is going to drop to 0 real fast.
- fossuser 6y ago
  I think it's feel good bullshit in part because the entire narrative is bullshit, driven by an anti-tech media stance that is not actually well represented in the real world. Most people are happy with Amazon and like the service they provide - this kind of thing is a non-story. I say this as someone who buys directly from suppliers like Dell or Logitech when I think there's a risk to getting repackaged or counterfeit items from Amazon, but the experience is often worse (Dell monitors took 5 weeks to arrive). I think these articles are a symptom of something else, but I'm not quite sure what it is. It feels like a political or tribal position, anti-large company, or anti-success? - I'm not quite sure, but I think there's an underlying theme that drives these types of articles and it isn't what they're directly about. They're okay with a small under-dog company story, but if you become large and successful then you're automatically written about in the most uncharitable way possible.
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4rt 6y ago
i needed a 12mm masonry bit to floor-mount an amazon safe i ordered and was surprised to find that in a local diy store the drill bit was £1.99 and on amazon it was £12.99.
zerd 6y ago
I feel like there's a lack of good price comparison websites in US and Canada. I'm used to e.g. PriceSpy which compares thousands of stores. Just as an example showing 42 different stores selling this particular SSD https://pricespy.co.uk/computers-accessories/storage-media/hard-drives/ssd-solid-state-drives/samsung-970-evo-plus-series-mz-v7s1t0bw-1tb--p5035391 https://pricespy.co.uk/computers-accessories/storage-media/h... Whenever I search for something like that for US/Canada I end up on a site that indexes Amazon/ebay with affiliate links.
- wfme 6y ago
  I second this. PriceSpy is so incredibly useful. I've recently moved from New Zealand to Australia and PriceSpy doesn't offer their service here. It is now so much more difficult to figure out where to get the best price. I took it for granted and now have to make do with the mediocre https://www.priceme.com.au/ https://www.priceme.com.au/.
  - JimA 6y ago
    Same story in the US. Back in the day there were multiple price engines that were super effective at finding the best price. I remember PriceGrabber and even Google Shopping being really useful. I think the affiliate links destroyed them all, removing the incentive for them to offer the best price and instead only serve up the most profitable (to them) links.
bash-j 6y ago
I've discovered if you search for local online shops you get poor results, but if you visit the websites of local businesses, quite a few have implemented home delivery. I guess they aren't good at SEO.
cleandreams 6y ago
I order from https://bookshop.org https://bookshop.org. It's a sort of umbrella for local bookstores: one storefront, many vendors. I select my favorite local bookstore and support them.
- pbamotra 6y ago
  It’s hard to beat Amazon on prices though. For comparison, look at the prices of best sellers. Sometimes the difference is as much as 40%. Trying bookofthemonth.com for a change.
ekianjo 6y ago
Problem is that return policy for Amazon is excellent, but completely nonexistent or cumbersome with other suppliers. That in itself is pretty much a deal breaker for competitors.
- gumby 6y ago
  Newegg and Monoprice have been pretty good for me.
  - whitehouse3 6y ago
    Have you had good return experiences with NewEgg? I recently ordered a $100 drawer shelf for a 12U rolling AV cart. The shelf was deeper than described so it jutted past the back of the rack. I sought a return. For which NewEgg charged $70 in return freight and a $15 restocking fee. Meaning I lost $85 and a few hours of time because NewEgg wouldn’t stand by the specs on their site. To add insult to injury, the first step of their return policy is a YouTube video. As if part returns are so complicated. Amazon blows. But not like this. I’m just one data point. Maybe an exception. I will never do business with NE again (but I still love how they fight patent trolls)
    - gumby 6y ago
      It’s been a while since I had to return something so thanks fort that info,
monksy 6y ago
For me it's been: - NewEgg for electronics - Walmart/Target. You have to be careful with walmart as that they have an open market place - Aliexpress for assorted small things that I can wait on - Abebooks (although they're owned by amazon :( ) for used books - Vitacost (owned by koger) for supplements/vitimins etc I've gone through 2018, 2019, and 2020 so far without placing a single Amazon order.
- jfim 6y ago
  Walmart has an option to filter by retailer, so one can do a search, then filter by retailer "walmart.com," which avoids third party vendors. It's a bit annoying to have to do this on every search, though.
- noisy_boy 6y ago
  I like Aliexpress because most of the times I can even chat with the manufacturer/distributor themselves and clarify doubts/discuss specific requirements. Also, most of the times, the senders (based on their address) seem to be local distributors/traders and sometimes manufacturers - feels more direct (even though I guess that the websites have their cut / the guy working hard on it maybe gets only a small percentage).
iphone_elegance 6y ago
Rubbish
Gimpei 6y ago
They mention Target as an alternative in this. What makes them better/different?
cody3222 6y ago
In the book "The Everything Store," Jeff Bezos mentions that the public tends to hate companies as they get bigger and that managing the company's image is very important. All politics aside, I find it very interesting that this seems to be a law that people just think companies are evil when they are big.
- op03 6y ago
  Well to produce a Blue Whale trucks loads of krill need to die. How do you think the krill feel about that law? Replace krill with humans and sooner or later Jeff the Blue Whale needs full time protection in a special sanctuary. In Nature if the Whale gets too efficient the eco system collapses and then reboots. Stability trumps Bigness. Book reco - Serangeti Rules - Sean Carroll.
- mdasen 6y ago
  I think it makes sense. When you're small, you don't have a lot of power. If you create CodyStore tomorrow and do things I don't like, I'll just ignore you. When you become as large as Amazon, you start crowding out competition and so even if I don't like some of Amazon's actions, I have no choice - I end up doing business with them regardless of my personal feelings. Plus, as you get bigger, you start looking at how you can marginally increase your growth. You go from "just make people happy" to "we could probably exclude a lot of low-margin items from Prime shipping and not see cancelations while improving our profits". You start trying to tie things together so that if people want one part of your experience, they need to accept other parts. You start trying to figure out how to optimize your labor cost, potentially in ways that aren't great for your workers. You start getting a lot of people that can improve the company in ways that aren't necessarily evil, but aren't exactly friendly. By this time, people don't really have an alternative. I mean, a lot of people loved Walmart when it was new. It was this all-in-one store with great prices. Over time, competing businesses were crowded out of the market by Walmart and customers had less choice. It also meant that retail labor had less choice with Walmart becoming a greater percentage of the jobs. It also meant that businesses selling things like TVs had less choice and Walmart could pressure them. I think power is ultimately pretty toxic. Amazon has succeeded in part because it's really good at what it does. However, another part of its success is the power it exerts on competitors, over labor, over suppliers, and over customers. Small companies just never have power to exert so they can never seem that unfriendly. Unfriendly small companies just cease to exist or at least can be ignored. Unfriendly large companies can use their power to force a lot of things to try and keep their throne.
niedzielski 6y ago
Does anyone have further CD (or FLAC) vendors they'd recommend for uncensored music? I often have a hard time finding CDs outside of Amazon or FLACs beyond Bandcamp. For example, Con by Tegan & Sara, The Jungle Is The Only Way Out by Mereba (which even Amazon doesn't have in CD), and Blueprint by Ferry Corsten. I didn't see them on Very, Zavvi, or Hive mentioned in the article. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI5SXM6 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI5SXM6 https://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Only-Way-Out-Explicit/dp/B07NZXB295 https://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Only-Way-Out-Explicit/dp/B07NZ... https://www.amazon.com/Blueprint-FERRY-CORSTEN/dp/B071S3RLL3 https://www.amazon.com/Blueprint-FERRY-CORSTEN/dp/B071S3RLL3
ehnto 6y ago
I see a lot of articles trying to reason their dislike for Amazon into logical dot points. I think it's enough to just not like the idea of any entity having so much of the general market.
steveharman 6y ago
I wonder if it is thanks to Amazon that so many other online retailers are now offering service "as good as Amazon". Because they have to. It certainly wasn't always the case.
throw93232 6y ago
Amazon used to be good for more obscure, hard to find things. I now use Ebay for such stuff. It is more transparent and I can communicate directly with seller.
unkoman 6y ago
Can't you use a service such as pricerunner.com or pricespy.co.uk
JackPoach 6y ago
I haven't bought anything from Amazon for about 5 years, because I moved, but I really feel uncomfortable about Amazon bashing. I think Amazon has done a huge favor for online stores. I think AWS is incredible service that powers a lot of great online services. You absolutely should criticize Amazon for poor labor practices and you are free to avoid buying from them on ethical grounds. But I think it the end you might hurt more people you are trying to protect. We all love to have our favorite evils. Facebook yesterday, Amazon today, Microsoft ten years ago. But the history teaches us that the only effective way to limit monopolies and stop them from abusing their powers is strong government actions. Boycotts don't work.
- drewcoo 6y ago
  Boycotts seem to have some effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boycotts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boycotts
joyj2nd 6y ago
Ok, let me try for the US: newegg.com (Electronics) alibris.com (books) monoprice.com (electronics) bhphotovideo.com (photo) purebulk.com (dietary supplements) ebay.com (everything)
growlist 6y ago
Whilst I'm not sure it's healthy to have one company so dominant, and whilst Amazon's product range is not perfect: 1. In terms of logistics it seems to me they handed every other logistic company's arse to them - even those that have been running for hundreds of years and thus which you might hope to have some expertise in the field, and conversely even the newer companies which you might hope are relatively unburdened by inertia etc. Prime is awesome. 2. At the risk of sounding heartless, I don't care about all the struggling small competitors. Times and industries change, and Amazon's approach is simply more efficient. Does it really benefit society to have x thousands of people running their own e-commerce business rather than finding something else to do? Should we be putting restrictions on weaving machines in order to support manual weavers? Or supporting buggy whip manufacturers by taxing car makers? Where do we draw the line? 3. I don't care about the tax avoidance etc. I'd rather see Bezos spend the money on rocketry than have governments wasting yet more on handouts. The former will probably benefit humanity more in the end. 4. Price. If Amazon weren't almost always equal or very slightly above competitors I wouldn't use it. But it is. Why should I pay more? To support ye olde historical e-commerce shoppe?
- amelius 6y ago
  > Should we be putting restrictions on weaving machines in order to support manual weavers? Well, we should if behind the scenes those weaving machines were kept operational by an army of low-wage workers.
  - growlist 6y ago
    In the UK we had (pre-CV) virtual full employment, and a reasonable minimum wage. The average person had plenty of other options, and nobody was forcing anyone to work at Amazon.
- alpaca128 6y ago
  > I'd rather see Bezos spend the money on rocketry than have governments wasting yet more on handouts. Don't worry, the government will get the money from somewhere. If not from Amazon then from you.
bashwizard 6y ago
Why would anyone buy anything from Amazon?
timbaboon 6y ago
No Amazon in South Africa... That makes it easier to avoid them :P
jtdev 6y ago
Why do we hate Amazon again?
levosmetalo 6y ago
I got sick of Amazon trying to squeeze the last cent from me that I now consciously avoid it, even in case it is "the cheapest". It happened to me many time that Amazon show me higher price when I go there and search directly, then when I open the same product page by copy&pasting the Amazon url in the incognito window. Not to mention that coming to Amazon through the idealo.de or some other meta engine gives sometimes even better price. To hell with them, most of the competition in Germany doesn't do those scummy things. And the delivery and return policies are mandated by law anyway.
yepthatsreality 6y ago
We’re explaining the basics of shopping to people now for clicks...
rezeroed 6y ago
I was on Amazon a few weeks ago, clicked on the ratings graph, and was returned a page with nothing but an ascii art dog. The company just seems to be a mess.

490 points by Aaronmacaron 6y ago

I have done most of my pandemic shopping on Amazon, but have had luck with 4/5 externally run sites, most of which are on shopify. In the first 3 weeks after the first shelter in place orders, Amazon was about a week slower than the rest. Now it switched, and it seems Amazon is faster again. However I am now regularly doing business with a few other sites that have products Amazon doesn't.

robotbikes 6y ago

This article is very focused on the UK but its still possible to try and avoid supporting Amazon if you are willing to pay for shipping or use alternative outlets like EBay although many of those selling on that platform still use Amazon for fulfillment.

g42gregory 6y ago
Well, I tried to buy an item from eBay 3 weeks ago. eBay said the article was shipped few days after the purchase. 3 weeks later, nothing came. I asked the vendor, what happened, can you give me the tracking number? The vendor's reply: "our supplier haven't given us the tracking number yet." You mean to tell me that the item hasn't been shipped yet, despite that you told me it did 3 weeks ago? Yep. That's eBay.
- GuiA 6y ago
  On the other hand, eBay customer support is very friendly to buyers. Open a case the day after the advertised delivery, you will get refunded. As a long time seller/buyer I’ve developed a set of heuristics around eBay (most of them obvious - avoid non US based accounts, descriptions where the photos are clearly not the actual item itself, etc) and I’ve only had one or two bad surprises in over 10 years. Both times customer support came through.
  - FireBeyond 6y ago
    A little _too_ friendly. A buyer screwed me out of 5 drone (DJI Mavic 2) batteries and $700. Two weeks after getting the drone, “none of the batteries work”. Really? All five? I was skeptical, but said I’d do a partial refund if he’d commit in writing that the partial refund was contingent on him returning the batteries so I could repair, or replace (at least two were still in warranty, if there was ever even a problem). At no point did he show any actual evidence of battery issues (DJI Go battery diagnostics, etc.), just "it's not showing anything". He sent a message agreeing, via eBay messages with the text I'd sent him, even with "should I not do this, I understand that seller will dispute the transaction". Not even an hour later he sent another message “USPS won’t ship damaged batteries so I am not returning them”. I went to eBay with all this, and his agreement. eBay said he could keep the $700. And the five batteries.
- coopsmgoops 6y ago
  eBay is a mixed bag, you should review the seller accordingly. Some are good some are not. Items coming from independent sellers on Amazon could be the same.
- pcan77 6y ago
  I had this problem maybe once in my life using eBay. The other 99% of the time it has worked great, but I'm sorry you had a bad experience :(
acwan93 6y ago
>although many of those selling on that platform still use Amazon for fulfillment. That’s what makes me weary that there’s any way you can truly avoid Amazon. For many sellers it’s just easier to outsource their warehousing and fulfillment operations to FBA and use Amazon’s warehouse as a 3PL (third party logistics), and I wouldn’t be surprised if <random eBay/Shopify seller> used Amazon for fulfillment purposes.

inson 6y ago

It's like "Let's buy something not made in China"... Amazon is very convenient and at some point addictive (same day or 2 days delivery) way of online shopping. They got big enough that now they can dictate rules. So unless some other company with really great customer service, delivery speed, and return policy comes up, Amazon will be dominant in the US and Europe. Alibaba/AliExpress is an asian amazon.

Tiktaalik 6y ago

If you want your mom n' pop shops to survive this thing consider them first. You'd be surprised how many are probably doing deliveries. It's awfully low tech, but the local indie book shop here in Vancouver will order any book you ask for and deliver it throughout Metro Vancouver. All you need to do is call them and ask.

justicezyx 6y ago
"Call them and ask" We all know how frustrating and time-wasting it can be, when calling for professional service... In the end, it's still a tech problem. Amazon has the tech, and the customer base to form a virtuous cycle. The smaller shop dont have that. We need more Shopify like supplier, with varying degrees of sophistication and targeted customer groups.
- rchaud 6y ago
  I've found the opposite. Calling is a waste of time when you're dialing a megacorp like your phone company or utilities provider, because they treat customer service as a cost center and do everything possible to prevent you from talking to a human who isn't reading off a script. Smaller shops will usually have someone who just picks up the phone when you call.
  - alanbernstein 6y ago
    The thing is, "call them and ask" can be a 10-minute chore if you're looking for some oddball item from a local supplier, or a 10-second search on Amazon.
    - Pfhreak 6y ago
      My local bookstore has 'email them and ask', which is much lower friction.
      - jcrben 6y ago
        lol I expect the successful ones will have decent ecommerce platform within the new few years.

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rchaud 6y ago

Title should be updated to specify that this is UK only. The Guardian is UK-based but covers international news as well.

zenlot 6y ago
If it was US focused, would it be ok to not have US in the title?
- enitihas 6y ago
  HN has San Francisco specific stuff with nothing in title indicating that sometimes, leave alone the US. I think most people just assume it is about US anyways.
- rchaud 6y ago
  If the article was about US-based alternatives to Amazon, then no, it wouldn't be OK. The same principle would apply.

maw 6y ago

Step 1: Live somewhere where online shopping other than with Amazon actually works. (You can think what you want about Amazon, but it's a remarkably provincial piece.)

pm215 6y ago
It's a piece in a UK newspaper: obviously they're going to focus on the situation for most of their readers and the options that somebody in the UK might have for online shopping. It's not trying to be a survey of the whole global online shopping market or a resource for people in Brazil or Turkey, and frankly it would be an entirely different and much less useful article if it attempted that.
- thayne 6y ago
  > much less useful depends on who you are. If you live in the UK, sure. If you live anywhere else, this article is not very useful.
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    The "definitive guide" title is an exaggeration, but the article mentions U.S. alternatives like Target and Sephora.
  - pm215 6y ago
    I think an attempt at a world-spanning set of recommendations would have been spread so thinly as to be useless for everybody, even if in theory it covered their region. I think it's better to have an article that picks a country/region to focus on and does that in depth. Some other journalists/newspapers can handle doing similar articles for the US, Japan, Germany, etc, and as local journos they'll have more experience of what they're writing about and a wider array of contacts to get good suggestions from.

beloch 6y ago

Given how much Bezos has added to his personal net worth during the pandemic ($24B [1]), perhaps its time for governments to expect better treatment for Amazon employees... or else. Charges of pandemic profiteering could be convincingly brought to bear. [1]https://fortune.com/2020/04/14/jeff-bezos-net-worth-2020-billionaires-amzn-amazon-stock/ https://fortune.com/2020/04/14/jeff-bezos-net-worth-2020-bil...

nojito 6y ago
I would expect HN of all places to know the difference between paper and liquid net worth. People are stuck at home and as result are forced to shop online which results in increase revenue for the largest online commerce store.
- TaylorAlexander 6y ago
  And? With increased revenue Amazon can probably afford to pay their workers more.
  - TylerE 6y ago
    Why? Their margins haven’t changed. If anything, they’re tighter than usual due to extra precautions
    - TaylorAlexander 6y ago
      Well, it’s more like they should have been paying their workers more for a while. Now is as good a time as any to make good on a well deserved compensation increase.
      - rsj_hn 6y ago
        Why do you think they should pay their workers more? Do you have data that they are paying below market wages? If they are paying below market wages, then how are they able to hire so many people? Median pay for Amazon is $14 per hour, whereas median hourly wage for warehouse employees is $13, so it appears that Amazon pays a small premium over the market wage. What makes you so special that your gut feeling of Amazon is something that people should pay attention to, rather than market wages?

flavor8 6y ago

I tried shopping Newegg recently (BC). Newegg's online customer service made Amazon's look positively erudite, and in addition Newegg's return policy is terrible by comparison. I still haven't received an item that I ordered 7 weeks ago (shipping was not advertised as being particularly slow), and I still haven't been refunded for another item that I returned 2 weeks ago. Amazon gets that if you can't touch the item in store, there should be a no-fault return policy (and yes, I know that returns are environmentally unfriendly, etc). I tried to shop Jet (before they were acquired) and I found the search / shop experience had too much friction. Amazon's UI has plenty of annoyances, but they've made it _real_ easy to get something into your cart and check out. On the other hand, all of my music studio purchases I make at Sweetwater. Great customer service, free shipping, will price match if you ask, and frictionless returns. IMO Amazon is vulnerable to good competitors, but the emphasis is on good. I can tolerate a small shipping fee, and I don't need next day or two day shipping (although it's nice). On the other hand if you make it hard for me to shop, customer service sucks, or I have to jump through hoops to return something, I'll go back to Amazon.

gregmac 6y ago
Did you order Newegg or third-party? So many stores, Newegg included, are trying to be a 'platform' or something and allow third party sellers, but it makes the buying experience awful. Arguably the worst things about buying from Amazon all derive from third-party sellers: long shipping times (from China, generally), commingled inventory, counterfeit products, faked/swapped listings... Companies like Newegg should be explicitly doing the opposite as a competitive advantage -- yet they seem to be copying. I don't get it.
- flavor8 6y ago
  Yeah, one of the items was third party, one was Newegg. But I agree - you can't outcompete Amazon by trying to be Amazon. Sweetwater (who I mentioned upthread) are great because they do musical instruments (and related) and nothing else. Deep domain knowledge, rich and well organized catalog, community of music nerds, and (as far as I've noticed) no third party junk. A Newegg could theoretically do the same for computers and peripherals. (Find me all motherboards compatible with i7 and ddr4, with usbc, blinkenlights and onboard wifi - much easier on Newegg than Amazon, but unfortunately it suffers from the aforementioned issues).

intopieces 6y ago

If you're in the Bay Area and need more computer things, give Central Computers a try. Their website is delightfully simple. This article recommends hitting up major brands on their websites, which is ok for all of them except Dell. Dell's website is an absolute shitshow. I've been using Google Express and liked it quite a bit.

clairity 6y ago
yes to central computers, meh to dell, and heck no to google. support independently-owned businesses not trying to corner the market on all your personal data.

Zenst 6y ago

Given https://www.marketwatch.com/story/facebook-google-amazon-to-be-hit-with-new-2-uk-digital-service-tax-2020-03-11 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/facebook-google-amazon-to-... Then why is this not only overlooked by this article, but not even touched upon. That I find most curious.

dude3 6y ago

Been buying a lot of stuff on eBay. On the app, you can filter by Guaranteed Delivery 1 to 4 days. If it doesn't make it by the guaranteed date, you get a $5 credit to your eBay account. It's also frequently cheaper for new stuff. For example, water bottles and bluetooth adapters.

Scoundreller 6y ago
And if you really want to save money and have patience, just sort by Price + Shipping: Lowest First.

birdyrooster 6y ago

How to avoid Amazon: Try shopping for anything and you will find it's all sold out or delayed by a month.

rad_gruchalski 6y ago

In Germany: go to Amazon.de, search for the product. Check if it’s available from third party sellers. Copy the seller’s name, google for their online shop. If they have one, buy direct. Bit clunky but pretty often cheaper.

rv-de 6y ago
I do that, too, but only as a last resort. Usually idealo or Google is sufficient to track a shop down.
unnouinceput 6y ago
Also pay on delivery, make the delivery guy wait 5 minutes and open the package -> test 5 minutes for obvious flaws. This is the best way and cheaper. Do treat the delivery guy with something though, I usually offer homemade sweets and/or free alcohol beer. They deserve it.

palijer 6y ago

Let's hope none of those sites use AWS...

Theodores 6y ago

Normally the media in the UK can't have 'how to avoid retailer x' articles as that means 'retailer x' isn't going to place adverts in their paper. However, online, I imagine it does not matter, ads just arrive without negotiation between 'retailer x' and the publication/paper. Currently avoiding Amazon however I can't get a garden sieve/riddle in my preferred local store. So I have to go on Amazon if I really want one. My local store has a sieve for £5 when in stock. That is all the sieve options, take it or leave it. The decision is easy. But, on Amazon, there is paralysis of choice. Hundreds of sieves to choose from, invariably more expensive than the £5 local store price. With shipping on top. The choice works with books but not with everything. A decent retailer only sells top quality stuff with an affordable option and maybe a super deluxe option, so your choice is between a small amount of items. Amazon doesn't help with that.

Polylactic_acid 6y ago

Is avoiding Amazon so hard that a guide is needed? I have only ever purchased something from Amazon once because someone gave me a gift card. It wasn't any cheaper or more convenient than ebay so I'm not sure what the craze over Amazon is about.

bradlys 6y ago

Do people not know how to shop online outside of Amazon? I'm not paying more to buy things through other platforms. If something is the same price on Amazon as it is elsewhere - the other place will lose until they have faster shipping or some other benefit. And this is coming from someone who buys a lot of stuff elsewhere and does a lot more than the average consumer when it comes to shopping. I do buy stuff elsewhere frequently. (I just spent $600 on soldering equipment through TEquipment, Louis Rossman's store, and some Amazon stuff because I couldn't find the stuff elsewhere for cheaper) The reason I do it isn't because I'm anti-Amazon - I buy stuff through various sources because I'm a thoroughbred slickdealer. (And you can bet your butt I looked up all those items to see if there were ever any deals on them or if I could get them used for cheaper - odd stuff doesn't get posted much about, sadly) So, yeah, I buy stuff outside of Amazon... However, I'm a bit annoyed because I feel like the quality control is really bad at other sources far too often. With some shops I feel like they're gonna call me up and say, "Hey, I noticed you bought X, Y, and Z, do you want to buy this too?" And this just pads delivery time by days. They're slow to ship often enough as well. You buy an item online but you didn't know the shop was closed for 2 weeks. Sometimes - it's good. I remember I got $100 off my vacuum cleaner because they offered free overnight shipping for these vacuum cleaners - but I could get $100 off the price if I chose ground shipping. (Not an option online) That was worth knowing but that's rare! Most of the time I get a call like, "I noticed you bought X which is an accessory to Y, and Y wasn't in your order, do you want to buy Y?" No, of course not. I didn't buy Y because you charge too much for it and I can get it for cheaper elsewhere! On top of this - even big names mess up too often! I tried to buy an Elgato capture card off through Bestbuy this last week. It wasn't even available anywhere else except Bestbuy. I used Google Shopping in the process because it was quicker/easier than going through Bestbuy's website. In the end - I got shipped a god damn microwave that I had to return today via UPS. Huge pain in the ass. I had to go to the local UPS store twice because I went too early (never thought that would happen!) to the UPS store the first time. (They're open 11-5) Yes, that stuff could happen with Amazon but I feel like they might have slightly better inventory management than that and would recognize when a 50lb+ item is being shipped instead of a 1lb. Surprisingly, the shipping labels (both ways) were only for objects < 5lbs. And yet UPS took them both times. Target - same crap. Order something for store pickup even - no go. They cancel the order days later saying it isn't in stock. Home Depot? Fulfills half your order when you clearly need the whole thing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22795970 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22795970 I avoid store pickup when I can now. It's usually faster for me to find the item(s) in store and go through self-checkout than to wait in line at pickup. I'm not pro-Amazon but I am not pro-poor experience for the same or more price. There's a reason Amazon is doing well compared to the competition and it's because they've made it much lower friction.

shamdasani 6y ago

I recently found out of a site (https://syessa.com https://syessa.com) selling household items (hand soap, detergent, dish liquid, etc.) at equal to or cheaper prices than Amazon. Better to support small businesses! I ordered from them last thursday and received my order today.

rv-de 6y ago

I haven't bought from Amazon in about three years. And I'm ordering online quite a lot. Only this month: a bike (boc24.de), bike equipment (nanobike.de), several books (booklooker.de, medimops.de, thalia.de, hugendubel.de), a Whisky (mcgin.de), a pizza stone (otto.de), USB microskope (digitalo.de) ... No problem or hassle whatsoever. I just find a shop (usually idealo), then I order - done. It's so simple, there's not much to write about - lest a guide. > You can often cut out the middleman if you are buying electronics. For computers, phones and TVs, Dell, Apple and Samsung are all offering free delivery on their products That's why the guide goes beyond its purported goal and tries to avoid other shops as well? > Environmentally friendly cleaning products, pet food and baby gear are available at Ethicalsupermarket.com. Standard delivery in the UK is free on orders over £50, or £3.95 on smaller orders. Then specific shops and information about shipping? Whatever - useless text. Just order somewhere else. It's that easy. (at least in Germany) (yes, I hate Amazon - yes, I make a living with AWS) --- Special love goes to: - booklooker.de - medimops.de - notebookgalerie.de - thalia.de - mcgin.de

augstein 6y ago
Ordering from Apple or Samsung directly, as suggested by the article, even is something to avoid, unless you like paying a premium (usually you can find their products about 10-30% cheaper somewhere else).
- wenc 6y ago
  Curious, where does one get products cheaper than Apple.com? (I believe Apple controls the prices third party resellers can set) I've seen the occasional markdown on Amazon and MacMall but Apple's prices are generally pretty standard.
  - abiogenesis 6y ago
    Here in Australia, for example, you can buy grey imports (i.e. not imported by Apple, Samsung etc) for much cheaper. With some brands you only get a store warranty, but sometimes you might even get full manufacturer international warranty.

flatTheCurve 6y ago

I found Walmart online cheaper than anything, including in store prices. Since that wasn't mentioned, is this basically an affiliate list?

justlexi93 6y ago

I love Amazon because you can find the majority of the products that you are looking for from this online platform. The usual stuff that I buy from them is food especially now that the pandemic is on-going. There are other alternative online shops to choose from but they are still my favorite. Moving on, if you guys are planning to modify your car at home feel free to check out: https://4wheelonline.com https://4wheelonline.com

ARandomerDude 6y ago

My books from Amazon almost always arrive bent, dirty, etc. I order from the publishers whenever possible.

mttjj 6y ago
How do you find the prices? I’ve only ever looked on Amazon but even for new releases they seem to be considerably discounted from the publisher’s list price.
- ARandomerDude 6y ago
  Good question. It depends on the publisher. I usually look up both. If Amazon is significantly cheaper (tens of dollars), then I'll order from Amazon. If they send me garbage, I'll order from the publisher and return the Amazon book. I may be in a niche circumstance, but most of the books I order from the publishers are within about $5 of Amazon. I don't know the exact count, but I have approximately 600 books. Worth it to have nice ones!

electriclove 6y ago

For many hardware and photography needs, I will choose B&H instead of Amazon.

villson 6y ago
Not only photography, anything dropped shipped from a warehouse. For example, if I need a printer or laptop in a pinch B&H will get it to me pretty quick. Pretty much anything electronics wise they are great source. Going back to photography, you totally trust B&H. You know the equipment has been treated well since it arrived from the factory. No chance of grey market stuff either.

troughway 6y ago

It’s a nice touch by The Guardian to write this article but given how much Amazon has benefited from this epidemic, I do not think any kind of individual vigilantism will really work here. You’re not even a drop in the bucket for them and most people do not care. If anything, thanks to them being a go-to platform, they’ve single handedly allowed a lot of third party shops to sell their inventory, and have come out net positive as a result. I don’t mean to sound as an apologist saying this - just stating the bloody obvious. The “vote with your wallet” rhetoric doesn’t work. It’s half past feel good bullshit. If you want these companies to change it must be codified into the law and backed up by hard time. But good luck with that, since China is a massive trade partner and every country is turning a blind eye to them imprisoning people in concentration camps and harvesting organs. It’s unlikely The States are going to have a change of heart anytime soon.

Aperocky 6y ago
vote with your wallet is like actual voting. Where you inconvenience yourself for some time to line up in a booth to select someone who you more likely just hated less. Now imagine doing that all day every day, the inconveniences each time might be smaller, but hey, Amazon is always there. The 'voter turnout' is going to drop to 0 real fast.
fossuser 6y ago
I think it's feel good bullshit in part because the entire narrative is bullshit, driven by an anti-tech media stance that is not actually well represented in the real world. Most people are happy with Amazon and like the service they provide - this kind of thing is a non-story. I say this as someone who buys directly from suppliers like Dell or Logitech when I think there's a risk to getting repackaged or counterfeit items from Amazon, but the experience is often worse (Dell monitors took 5 weeks to arrive). I think these articles are a symptom of something else, but I'm not quite sure what it is. It feels like a political or tribal position, anti-large company, or anti-success? - I'm not quite sure, but I think there's an underlying theme that drives these types of articles and it isn't what they're directly about. They're okay with a small under-dog company story, but if you become large and successful then you're automatically written about in the most uncharitable way possible.

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4rt 6y ago

i needed a 12mm masonry bit to floor-mount an amazon safe i ordered and was surprised to find that in a local diy store the drill bit was £1.99 and on amazon it was £12.99.

zerd 6y ago

I feel like there's a lack of good price comparison websites in US and Canada. I'm used to e.g. PriceSpy which compares thousands of stores. Just as an example showing 42 different stores selling this particular SSD https://pricespy.co.uk/computers-accessories/storage-media/hard-drives/ssd-solid-state-drives/samsung-970-evo-plus-series-mz-v7s1t0bw-1tb--p5035391 https://pricespy.co.uk/computers-accessories/storage-media/h... Whenever I search for something like that for US/Canada I end up on a site that indexes Amazon/ebay with affiliate links.

wfme 6y ago
I second this. PriceSpy is so incredibly useful. I've recently moved from New Zealand to Australia and PriceSpy doesn't offer their service here. It is now so much more difficult to figure out where to get the best price. I took it for granted and now have to make do with the mediocre https://www.priceme.com.au/ https://www.priceme.com.au/.
- JimA 6y ago
  Same story in the US. Back in the day there were multiple price engines that were super effective at finding the best price. I remember PriceGrabber and even Google Shopping being really useful. I think the affiliate links destroyed them all, removing the incentive for them to offer the best price and instead only serve up the most profitable (to them) links.

bash-j 6y ago

I've discovered if you search for local online shops you get poor results, but if you visit the websites of local businesses, quite a few have implemented home delivery. I guess they aren't good at SEO.

cleandreams 6y ago

I order from https://bookshop.org https://bookshop.org. It's a sort of umbrella for local bookstores: one storefront, many vendors. I select my favorite local bookstore and support them.

pbamotra 6y ago
It’s hard to beat Amazon on prices though. For comparison, look at the prices of best sellers. Sometimes the difference is as much as 40%. Trying bookofthemonth.com for a change.

ekianjo 6y ago

Problem is that return policy for Amazon is excellent, but completely nonexistent or cumbersome with other suppliers. That in itself is pretty much a deal breaker for competitors.

gumby 6y ago
Newegg and Monoprice have been pretty good for me.
- whitehouse3 6y ago
  Have you had good return experiences with NewEgg? I recently ordered a $100 drawer shelf for a 12U rolling AV cart. The shelf was deeper than described so it jutted past the back of the rack. I sought a return. For which NewEgg charged $70 in return freight and a $15 restocking fee. Meaning I lost $85 and a few hours of time because NewEgg wouldn’t stand by the specs on their site. To add insult to injury, the first step of their return policy is a YouTube video. As if part returns are so complicated. Amazon blows. But not like this. I’m just one data point. Maybe an exception. I will never do business with NE again (but I still love how they fight patent trolls)
  - gumby 6y ago
    It’s been a while since I had to return something so thanks fort that info,

monksy 6y ago

For me it's been: - NewEgg for electronics - Walmart/Target. You have to be careful with walmart as that they have an open market place - Aliexpress for assorted small things that I can wait on - Abebooks (although they're owned by amazon :( ) for used books - Vitacost (owned by koger) for supplements/vitimins etc I've gone through 2018, 2019, and 2020 so far without placing a single Amazon order.

jfim 6y ago
Walmart has an option to filter by retailer, so one can do a search, then filter by retailer "walmart.com," which avoids third party vendors. It's a bit annoying to have to do this on every search, though.
noisy_boy 6y ago
I like Aliexpress because most of the times I can even chat with the manufacturer/distributor themselves and clarify doubts/discuss specific requirements. Also, most of the times, the senders (based on their address) seem to be local distributors/traders and sometimes manufacturers - feels more direct (even though I guess that the websites have their cut / the guy working hard on it maybe gets only a small percentage).

iphone_elegance 6y ago

Rubbish

Gimpei 6y ago

They mention Target as an alternative in this. What makes them better/different?

cody3222 6y ago

In the book "The Everything Store," Jeff Bezos mentions that the public tends to hate companies as they get bigger and that managing the company's image is very important. All politics aside, I find it very interesting that this seems to be a law that people just think companies are evil when they are big.

op03 6y ago
Well to produce a Blue Whale trucks loads of krill need to die. How do you think the krill feel about that law? Replace krill with humans and sooner or later Jeff the Blue Whale needs full time protection in a special sanctuary. In Nature if the Whale gets too efficient the eco system collapses and then reboots. Stability trumps Bigness. Book reco - Serangeti Rules - Sean Carroll.
mdasen 6y ago
I think it makes sense. When you're small, you don't have a lot of power. If you create CodyStore tomorrow and do things I don't like, I'll just ignore you. When you become as large as Amazon, you start crowding out competition and so even if I don't like some of Amazon's actions, I have no choice - I end up doing business with them regardless of my personal feelings. Plus, as you get bigger, you start looking at how you can marginally increase your growth. You go from "just make people happy" to "we could probably exclude a lot of low-margin items from Prime shipping and not see cancelations while improving our profits". You start trying to tie things together so that if people want one part of your experience, they need to accept other parts. You start trying to figure out how to optimize your labor cost, potentially in ways that aren't great for your workers. You start getting a lot of people that can improve the company in ways that aren't necessarily evil, but aren't exactly friendly. By this time, people don't really have an alternative. I mean, a lot of people loved Walmart when it was new. It was this all-in-one store with great prices. Over time, competing businesses were crowded out of the market by Walmart and customers had less choice. It also meant that retail labor had less choice with Walmart becoming a greater percentage of the jobs. It also meant that businesses selling things like TVs had less choice and Walmart could pressure them. I think power is ultimately pretty toxic. Amazon has succeeded in part because it's really good at what it does. However, another part of its success is the power it exerts on competitors, over labor, over suppliers, and over customers. Small companies just never have power to exert so they can never seem that unfriendly. Unfriendly small companies just cease to exist or at least can be ignored. Unfriendly large companies can use their power to force a lot of things to try and keep their throne.

niedzielski 6y ago

Does anyone have further CD (or FLAC) vendors they'd recommend for uncensored music? I often have a hard time finding CDs outside of Amazon or FLACs beyond Bandcamp. For example, Con by Tegan & Sara, The Jungle Is The Only Way Out by Mereba (which even Amazon doesn't have in CD), and Blueprint by Ferry Corsten. I didn't see them on Very, Zavvi, or Hive mentioned in the article. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI5SXM6 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI5SXM6 https://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Only-Way-Out-Explicit/dp/B07NZXB295 https://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Only-Way-Out-Explicit/dp/B07NZ... https://www.amazon.com/Blueprint-FERRY-CORSTEN/dp/B071S3RLL3 https://www.amazon.com/Blueprint-FERRY-CORSTEN/dp/B071S3RLL3

ehnto 6y ago

I see a lot of articles trying to reason their dislike for Amazon into logical dot points. I think it's enough to just not like the idea of any entity having so much of the general market.

steveharman 6y ago

I wonder if it is thanks to Amazon that so many other online retailers are now offering service "as good as Amazon". Because they have to. It certainly wasn't always the case.

throw93232 6y ago

Amazon used to be good for more obscure, hard to find things. I now use Ebay for such stuff. It is more transparent and I can communicate directly with seller.

unkoman 6y ago

Can't you use a service such as pricerunner.com or pricespy.co.uk

JackPoach 6y ago

I haven't bought anything from Amazon for about 5 years, because I moved, but I really feel uncomfortable about Amazon bashing. I think Amazon has done a huge favor for online stores. I think AWS is incredible service that powers a lot of great online services. You absolutely should criticize Amazon for poor labor practices and you are free to avoid buying from them on ethical grounds. But I think it the end you might hurt more people you are trying to protect. We all love to have our favorite evils. Facebook yesterday, Amazon today, Microsoft ten years ago. But the history teaches us that the only effective way to limit monopolies and stop them from abusing their powers is strong government actions. Boycotts don't work.

drewcoo 6y ago
Boycotts seem to have some effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boycotts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boycotts

joyj2nd 6y ago

Ok, let me try for the US: newegg.com (Electronics) alibris.com (books) monoprice.com (electronics) bhphotovideo.com (photo) purebulk.com (dietary supplements) ebay.com (everything)

growlist 6y ago

Whilst I'm not sure it's healthy to have one company so dominant, and whilst Amazon's product range is not perfect: 1. In terms of logistics it seems to me they handed every other logistic company's arse to them - even those that have been running for hundreds of years and thus which you might hope to have some expertise in the field, and conversely even the newer companies which you might hope are relatively unburdened by inertia etc. Prime is awesome. 2. At the risk of sounding heartless, I don't care about all the struggling small competitors. Times and industries change, and Amazon's approach is simply more efficient. Does it really benefit society to have x thousands of people running their own e-commerce business rather than finding something else to do? Should we be putting restrictions on weaving machines in order to support manual weavers? Or supporting buggy whip manufacturers by taxing car makers? Where do we draw the line? 3. I don't care about the tax avoidance etc. I'd rather see Bezos spend the money on rocketry than have governments wasting yet more on handouts. The former will probably benefit humanity more in the end. 4. Price. If Amazon weren't almost always equal or very slightly above competitors I wouldn't use it. But it is. Why should I pay more? To support ye olde historical e-commerce shoppe?

amelius 6y ago
> Should we be putting restrictions on weaving machines in order to support manual weavers? Well, we should if behind the scenes those weaving machines were kept operational by an army of low-wage workers.
- growlist 6y ago
  In the UK we had (pre-CV) virtual full employment, and a reasonable minimum wage. The average person had plenty of other options, and nobody was forcing anyone to work at Amazon.
alpaca128 6y ago
> I'd rather see Bezos spend the money on rocketry than have governments wasting yet more on handouts. Don't worry, the government will get the money from somewhere. If not from Amazon then from you.

bashwizard 6y ago

Why would anyone buy anything from Amazon?

timbaboon 6y ago

No Amazon in South Africa... That makes it easier to avoid them :P

jtdev 6y ago

Why do we hate Amazon again?

levosmetalo 6y ago

I got sick of Amazon trying to squeeze the last cent from me that I now consciously avoid it, even in case it is "the cheapest". It happened to me many time that Amazon show me higher price when I go there and search directly, then when I open the same product page by copy&pasting the Amazon url in the incognito window. Not to mention that coming to Amazon through the idealo.de or some other meta engine gives sometimes even better price. To hell with them, most of the competition in Germany doesn't do those scummy things. And the delivery and return policies are mandated by law anyway.

yepthatsreality 6y ago

We’re explaining the basics of shopping to people now for clicks...

rezeroed 6y ago

I was on Amazon a few weeks ago, clicked on the ratings graph, and was returned a page with nothing but an ascii art dog. The company just seems to be a mess.