5 ms·

> 2) If you are studying a technical field, even if you are average, a degree has greater ROI than just about anything else. You can pay off your debt in the fi

by pfranz 7y ago

> 2) If you are studying a technical field, even if you are average, a degree has greater ROI than just about anything else. You can pay off your debt in the first few years out of school and continue earning dividends for the rest of your life. What's the downside to going to a community college? Where I grew up the credits were transferable. They did say, "Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out". I went to college knowing I wanted to study computers, but didn't know what specifically. If I changed fields I'd still have the first 2 years to pay back. I wish I had gone to a community college first. I overpaid for a worse educational experience. There was too much competition for core classes. So you had to wait semesters to get in. When you did get in the class sizes were much larger. Equivalent, transferrable classes were available, cheaper, and had smaller class sizes at nearby community colleges.

lonelappde 7y ago
Some people take community college level courses at university, payit inflated prices for the false prestige of a mid tier school like American University. That's a waste. If you start University at a level above community college (which many people here did), and get a decent price, it's good.
- lilt 7y ago
  If you can do both at the same time, or get basic classes out of the way in the summer at a community college, then it may be ok. But delaying electives for two years would put you at a significant disadvantage in technical fields, imo. Not to mention the basic classes (math, physics, etc) will be a joke at a community college so you will have a weaker background.
  - jimmaswell 7y ago
    The basic classes had good teachers and content at the CC I went to, on the same level as the university.
kurthr 7y ago
The downside is that you basically won't get into Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Yale... or most any other "top" college after going to community college. I know of one counter example, and I know of many very smart capable people who would have been capable and profited from such a degree, but missed their chance... which in turn made it VERY difficult to get any advanced degree. Maybe that doesn't matter in CS/programming, but it does in lots of other (e.g. Engineering/Science) disciplines.
- derangedHorse 7y ago
  And where are you getting this information from? Just anecdotes of people you think are smart, went to community college, and got rejected?
- ng12 7y ago
  Depends on where you live. The state schools in California are part of one big system so it's very easy to transfer from a community college to a UC (e.g. Berkeley) as long as you have the grades/aptitude.
- danaris 7y ago
  > get into Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Yale Based on everything I've seen over my roughly 20-year career in academia, plus the 18 years before that living in that world (my parents are both professors), what you get from going to Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Yale, and all the other "Big Name" schools is just that: the name. The education you get there is not better than the education you can get at a small liberal arts college—in fact, it's often worse, because you're just one of tens of thousands, lost in the crowd, and you're extremely unlikely to get one-on-one attention from the professor if you have any trouble with the material. Small liberal-arts colleges, on the other hand, so long as you're avoiding the ones that are specifically party schools, generally tend to focus much more on the teaching aspect, and especially on the personal attention aspect. For more specialized degrees like engineering you may need to narrow your pool of those schools to find one that has a good program, but there are enough that unless your field (at undergrad level) is suuuuper-niche, you're very likely to be able to find one that works for you. And while it's not universally true, they tend to be pretty good about taking transfer students.
intorio 7y ago
Transfer spots can be more competitive than Freshmen spots. This would especially be true if more people were doing it.
- pfranz 7y ago
  I have no idea how admissions work. I've heard stories about soliciting applications from unqualified candidates so they can tout accepting 1% of applications and the number of applicants so they can sound more exclusive. One would imagine in a fair world if you applied as a Freshman and as a Junior you'd have a higher chance of being accepted, if Junior applicants had a higher graduation rate they would bias accordingly, or if they started getting more Junior applications they would find more spots.
  - Melting_Harps 7y ago
    > I have no idea how admissions work. I've heard stories about soliciting applications from unqualified candidates so they can tout accepting 1% of applications and the number of applicants so they can sound more exclusive. Its pretty corrupt, I already spoke on my first hand experience in other threads, but just look at what the recent admissions scandal yielded: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/investigations-college-admissions-and-testing-bribery-scheme https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/investigations-college-admis... The one at USC was the most blatant of all in my opinion: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-01/usc-admissions-official-guilty-plea-chinese-students https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-01/usc-admi...
- Melting_Harps 7y ago
  > Transfer spots can be more competitive than Freshmen spots. This would especially be true if more people were doing it. Agreed, that was my experience. Added on top of the limited slots for upper division transfer to a highly desirable school I was in the most impacted major of all and its unbelievably hard to transfer even if you meet all the criteria and you're already in the system. The amount of BS posturing that takes place to have to 'justify' your acceptance to just want to get in and out and graduate is unfathomable when dealing with administration/acceptance committees, especially if they know they can use your spot to bring in International students that pay upwards of 5x more than you. Personally, I still regret when I think of the business opportunities I turned down, ultimately motorsports was a better monetary investment then a career in the Life Sciences after the financial crises as cruel luck would have it. I learned then that doing the seemingly safe, prudent and pragmatic thing isn't always the route you want to take in Life and that following the herd is seldom as rewarding as promised. At least if you fail following your own instinct it will be on your terms and hopefully provide you with a solid foundation and skill set to rebuild if/when needed. In addition to a richer Life experience. Personally I'm a proponent of apprenticeships and online learning/certifications, which I think is where Universalizes are going to have to migrate towards for a majority of their programs if they have any chance of surviving this post-corona World in the long run.
marcinzm 7y ago
>What's the downside to going to a community college? Where I grew up the credits were transferable. Depends on the quality of the school. If it's a top school then transferring can be difficult, you lose on networking opportunities (with students and professors), potential internships/summer research and arguably get a weaker education (although, true, it matters less the first couple years). I've taken courses at a community college and at a top school, the later was much more rigorous and fast moving.
- pfranz 7y ago
  > Depends on the quality of the school. If it's a top school then transferring can be difficult, you lose on networking opportunities (with students and professors) Where I grew up a 2 year degree allowed you to transfer as a 3rd year student at any university in that state. The other option was to take specific credits at a CC and credit them to university (I believe degree focused classes were excluded from transferring in). At least looking at my program, none of your degree focused classes started until the 3rd year. All of the gen-ed classes were massive at the university. So a lot of opportunities for networking are minimized (unless it was around an extra-curricular activity). My path was going to a university for a couple years. I ignored CC classes because I was a bit too arrogant, but left that university because of the BS. Much of that could have been avoided by taking some classes at the local CC. I ended up moving states to pursue a career and planned to get a degree if I hadn't started a career by the time I qualified for in-state tuition--but I never made it back to school. Since then I've had the opportunity to interview college grads. That process has made me question the quality of many top school's education. I don't think one path is better than another. I just wanted to let people know the 4-year university path isn't the only option. I wish I had finished a degree. I've poured over friend's class notes from college and grad school and wish I had the opportunity to take those classes.
lilt 7y ago
I took some community college classes in high school through a program we had with them. The environment and students were very underwhelming. Your mileage may vary. I got to take relevant classes (CS) in my very first quarter of college. The first two years it was a 50/50 split. The biggest benefit was being among smart, interesting people. College was way better than any previous educational experience, by far. That being said I didn't experience waiting for core classes. The class sizes were typically very large though. Taking these on the side at a community college while attending a 4 year college sounds like a good idea. I'm just opposed to putting everything on hold for 2 years to do basic classes. I don't think a community college is the place to explore interests.
- derangedHorse 7y ago
  You don't have to put anything on hold. If you're motivated, you'll start learning what you have to on your own. To be transparent, I went to a community college for 2 years and honestly can't recommend it enough for the reasons listed by the OP. I learned a lot better in the small class setting, and a good ratio of my professors were actually good at teaching (unlike the university I ended up going to where teaching was a necessary evil for professors).
- pfranz 7y ago
  > I'm just opposed to putting everything on hold for 2 years to do basic classes. I don't think a community college is the place to explore interests. In my state a 2 year community college degree allowed you to transfer as a 3rd year student into any state university. You could also pick and choose individual classes, but they may not transfer directly. I believe a lot of states are like this. The only thing you have to be careful about is if you want to transfer out of state. Schools aren't incentivized to allow you to transfer credits (or test out of classes). I just wanted to let others know that's an option and it shouldn't be stigmatized. I think I was a little too arrogant to pursue community college classes and because of my frustrations with the university I left.

by pfranz 7y ago

lonelappde 7y ago

Some people take community college level courses at university, payit inflated prices for the false prestige of a mid tier school like American University. That's a waste. If you start University at a level above community college (which many people here did), and get a decent price, it's good.

lilt 7y ago
If you can do both at the same time, or get basic classes out of the way in the summer at a community college, then it may be ok. But delaying electives for two years would put you at a significant disadvantage in technical fields, imo. Not to mention the basic classes (math, physics, etc) will be a joke at a community college so you will have a weaker background.
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  The basic classes had good teachers and content at the CC I went to, on the same level as the university.

kurthr 7y ago

The downside is that you basically won't get into Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Yale... or most any other "top" college after going to community college. I know of one counter example, and I know of many very smart capable people who would have been capable and profited from such a degree, but missed their chance... which in turn made it VERY difficult to get any advanced degree. Maybe that doesn't matter in CS/programming, but it does in lots of other (e.g. Engineering/Science) disciplines.

derangedHorse 7y ago
And where are you getting this information from? Just anecdotes of people you think are smart, went to community college, and got rejected?
ng12 7y ago
Depends on where you live. The state schools in California are part of one big system so it's very easy to transfer from a community college to a UC (e.g. Berkeley) as long as you have the grades/aptitude.
danaris 7y ago
> get into Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Yale Based on everything I've seen over my roughly 20-year career in academia, plus the 18 years before that living in that world (my parents are both professors), what you get from going to Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Yale, and all the other "Big Name" schools is just that: the name. The education you get there is not better than the education you can get at a small liberal arts college—in fact, it's often worse, because you're just one of tens of thousands, lost in the crowd, and you're extremely unlikely to get one-on-one attention from the professor if you have any trouble with the material. Small liberal-arts colleges, on the other hand, so long as you're avoiding the ones that are specifically party schools, generally tend to focus much more on the teaching aspect, and especially on the personal attention aspect. For more specialized degrees like engineering you may need to narrow your pool of those schools to find one that has a good program, but there are enough that unless your field (at undergrad level) is suuuuper-niche, you're very likely to be able to find one that works for you. And while it's not universally true, they tend to be pretty good about taking transfer students.

intorio 7y ago

Transfer spots can be more competitive than Freshmen spots. This would especially be true if more people were doing it.

pfranz 7y ago
I have no idea how admissions work. I've heard stories about soliciting applications from unqualified candidates so they can tout accepting 1% of applications and the number of applicants so they can sound more exclusive. One would imagine in a fair world if you applied as a Freshman and as a Junior you'd have a higher chance of being accepted, if Junior applicants had a higher graduation rate they would bias accordingly, or if they started getting more Junior applications they would find more spots.
- Melting_Harps 7y ago
  > I have no idea how admissions work. I've heard stories about soliciting applications from unqualified candidates so they can tout accepting 1% of applications and the number of applicants so they can sound more exclusive. Its pretty corrupt, I already spoke on my first hand experience in other threads, but just look at what the recent admissions scandal yielded: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/investigations-college-admissions-and-testing-bribery-scheme https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/investigations-college-admis... The one at USC was the most blatant of all in my opinion: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-01/usc-admissions-official-guilty-plea-chinese-students https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-01/usc-admi...
Melting_Harps 7y ago
> Transfer spots can be more competitive than Freshmen spots. This would especially be true if more people were doing it. Agreed, that was my experience. Added on top of the limited slots for upper division transfer to a highly desirable school I was in the most impacted major of all and its unbelievably hard to transfer even if you meet all the criteria and you're already in the system. The amount of BS posturing that takes place to have to 'justify' your acceptance to just want to get in and out and graduate is unfathomable when dealing with administration/acceptance committees, especially if they know they can use your spot to bring in International students that pay upwards of 5x more than you. Personally, I still regret when I think of the business opportunities I turned down, ultimately motorsports was a better monetary investment then a career in the Life Sciences after the financial crises as cruel luck would have it. I learned then that doing the seemingly safe, prudent and pragmatic thing isn't always the route you want to take in Life and that following the herd is seldom as rewarding as promised. At least if you fail following your own instinct it will be on your terms and hopefully provide you with a solid foundation and skill set to rebuild if/when needed. In addition to a richer Life experience. Personally I'm a proponent of apprenticeships and online learning/certifications, which I think is where Universalizes are going to have to migrate towards for a majority of their programs if they have any chance of surviving this post-corona World in the long run.

marcinzm 7y ago

>What's the downside to going to a community college? Where I grew up the credits were transferable. Depends on the quality of the school. If it's a top school then transferring can be difficult, you lose on networking opportunities (with students and professors), potential internships/summer research and arguably get a weaker education (although, true, it matters less the first couple years). I've taken courses at a community college and at a top school, the later was much more rigorous and fast moving.

pfranz 7y ago
> Depends on the quality of the school. If it's a top school then transferring can be difficult, you lose on networking opportunities (with students and professors) Where I grew up a 2 year degree allowed you to transfer as a 3rd year student at any university in that state. The other option was to take specific credits at a CC and credit them to university (I believe degree focused classes were excluded from transferring in). At least looking at my program, none of your degree focused classes started until the 3rd year. All of the gen-ed classes were massive at the university. So a lot of opportunities for networking are minimized (unless it was around an extra-curricular activity). My path was going to a university for a couple years. I ignored CC classes because I was a bit too arrogant, but left that university because of the BS. Much of that could have been avoided by taking some classes at the local CC. I ended up moving states to pursue a career and planned to get a degree if I hadn't started a career by the time I qualified for in-state tuition--but I never made it back to school. Since then I've had the opportunity to interview college grads. That process has made me question the quality of many top school's education. I don't think one path is better than another. I just wanted to let people know the 4-year university path isn't the only option. I wish I had finished a degree. I've poured over friend's class notes from college and grad school and wish I had the opportunity to take those classes.

lilt 7y ago

I took some community college classes in high school through a program we had with them. The environment and students were very underwhelming. Your mileage may vary. I got to take relevant classes (CS) in my very first quarter of college. The first two years it was a 50/50 split. The biggest benefit was being among smart, interesting people. College was way better than any previous educational experience, by far. That being said I didn't experience waiting for core classes. The class sizes were typically very large though. Taking these on the side at a community college while attending a 4 year college sounds like a good idea. I'm just opposed to putting everything on hold for 2 years to do basic classes. I don't think a community college is the place to explore interests.

derangedHorse 7y ago
You don't have to put anything on hold. If you're motivated, you'll start learning what you have to on your own. To be transparent, I went to a community college for 2 years and honestly can't recommend it enough for the reasons listed by the OP. I learned a lot better in the small class setting, and a good ratio of my professors were actually good at teaching (unlike the university I ended up going to where teaching was a necessary evil for professors).
pfranz 7y ago
> I'm just opposed to putting everything on hold for 2 years to do basic classes. I don't think a community college is the place to explore interests. In my state a 2 year community college degree allowed you to transfer as a 3rd year student into any state university. You could also pick and choose individual classes, but they may not transfer directly. I believe a lot of states are like this. The only thing you have to be careful about is if you want to transfer out of state. Schools aren't incentivized to allow you to transfer credits (or test out of classes). I just wanted to let others know that's an option and it shouldn't be stigmatized. I think I was a little too arrogant to pursue community college classes and because of my frustrations with the university I left.