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Dueling Scar
- jpopesculian 7y agoI live in Austria, and it's worth noting that the scars are heavily associated with old fashioned values, conservatives and nationalists and are very rarely seen nowadays
- lqet 7y agoYou can still see "Schmisse" in Germany today, although they are very rare. Here is the former CEO of Allianz with one: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Henning_Schulte-Noelle_hires.jpg/800px-Henning_Schulte-Noelle_hires.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/He... AFAIK (the article also mentions that), the concept of duelling is still very present (and often a requirement) in German, Austrian and Swiss fraternities, but they now wear protection [0]: https://sensor-magazin.de/app/uploads/2015/09/CorpsHassia_StickUpStudio03.jpg https://sensor-magazin.de/app/uploads/2015/09/CorpsHassia_St... [0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paukbrille https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paukbrille
- waschl 7y agoThe protection for this kind of fencing was practically the same during the last hundred years. Depending on the city they are different, the Paukbrille is default everywhere, others like nose or ear protection are treated differently depending on the local rules.
- lqet 7y agoWhy then are the scars such an uncommon sight nowadays? Is it because the medical treatment of the wounds is better or because there are less duels nowadays than 100 years ago? Or is it because in the past, students did everything to get a scar (including slicing themselves open with a razor blade) because it was seen as a sign of honor?
- morsch 7y agoTheir membership has dwindled as their reactionary values have gone out of fashion.
- lqet 7y agoAccording to Wikipedia, German speaking fraternities have 190.000 members [0], which is around 0.19% of the population of Germany, Switzerland and Austria (EDIT: see comments below, most of them are "nichtschlagend", meaning they don't duel). Compare this to 34.000 students in the German empire in 1900, which was under 0.1% of the population. I would assume that not every student was member of a fraternity back then, so the number of active fraternity members was even lower. Now, I do not know if the 190.000 members include non-active members as well, but I don't think you can generally say that their membership dwindled significantly over the last 100 years. Also, after studying in a University town in Germany where fraternity live is still very present, I don't think you can generally say that these fraternities are reactionary and/or right-winged (although there membership is, on average, much more conservative than the general population). I only noticed one common denominator among all of them: a massive consumption of alcohol. [0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studentenverbindung https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studentenverbindung
- ygra 7y agoMost of those are not schlagende Verbindungen, though.
- morsch 7y agoI saw the Wikipedia article. The number isn't properly sourced, but it's believable enough. The closest attribution is this journalistic article[1], which doesn't have the number. It also refers to the dwindling relevance in the past decades, which I was thinking of rather than going back a century. I'll let DeepL translate: However, what sounds pleasing from the point of view of the student fraternities is different on the bottom line. "Despite the new admissions we have a minus of about 200 members per year", says CV managing director Weiskorn. This is due to the fact that the vast majority of members are older academics, some of whom die every year. This development is in line with the long-term trend that can be observed overall among the student fraternities: "According to information from the cross-corporate mergers CDA and CDK, the number of fraternity members declined significantly between 1997 and 2009," says political scientist Kurth. "This downward spiral is accompanied by a massive loss of importance." Less than one percent of all students are now organized in corporations. It's worth mentioning that most fraternities don't duel. Dueling fraternities are the reactionary minority of a conservative minority. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20141129111313/http://www.wdr.de/wissen/wdr_wissen/themen/schule_beruf/aktuell/2011/10/studentenverbindungen.php5 https://web.archive.org/web/20141129111313/http://www.wdr.de...
- subpixel 7y agoI spent some time (as a party guest) in a fraternity in Munich where these scars were not uncommon. The coolest part was the room where dueling took place - it was like a pool in the floor but without water, to allow height for swinging blades. The not cool part was that the organization was arch-conservative and xenophobic. Fun parties though.
- tuyiown 7y agoThis reminds me that as a young boy I romanticized facial scars, and that sentiment was shared by a friend of the same age. I also remind this as a bit of a taboo, and I felt connected with him when we talked about it. Looks like those feelings did not entirely came from nowhere
- jaclaz 7y agoI am old enough to have played as a child with G.I.Joe action figures, and they (all?) had a scar (on the right cheek) that looked like being "manly".
- waschl 7y agoGerman fraternity guy here. Did such fencing with sharp weapons three times, but was good enough to only receive one small scar. AMA :-)
- lqet 7y agoDoes it hurt?
- waschl 7y agoThe weapons are sharpened in such a way that they leave clean cuts. The Adrenalin is high enough so you don’t really realize the hit and direct aftermath, only the blood running down. Of course there is the healing pain, can be quite painful.
- scottlocklin 7y agoWould you say this "Mondo Italian" video is a fair representation of the dueling tradition? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUh5exBJXBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUh5exBJXBU
- tobessebot 7y agoBierjunge!
- waschl 7y ago
- devchix 7y agoThis is amazing in that one would endure pain and disfigurement to advertise social standing, but I guess I speak from a time where there are other ways to display class standing. Dueling fell out of favors in the French aristocracy because ... wait for it ... the lower and middle class started to duel in emulation of the upper class. Although in the US, I read that it declined because it became barely concealed cover for extra-judicial killing. Now I'm on a train of thought that wonders what the customary analogous marker of status for women would be. That is, they all seem to be external (jewelry, ballgowns, high-status relatives) and not marked on the body.
- cmenge 7y ago> the lower and middle class started to duel in emulation of the upper class isn't that a common effect, e.g. https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/03/26/394339284/how-snobbery-helped-take-the-spice-out-of-european-cooking?t=1587219915031 https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/03/26/394339284/ho... > customary analogous marker of status for women would be. Perhaps speaking numerous languages, playing the Piano, dancing/ballet etc.?
- ken 7y agoModern people suffer “pain and disfigurement” in other ways to display their status, high or low. Piercings, tattoos, branding, smoking, drinking, tight shoes, tanning, etc. We still do terrible things to our bodies for style. That never stopped.
- new2628 7y ago> This is amazing in that one would endure pain and disfigurement to advertise social standing, but I guess I speak from a time where there are other ways to display class standing. Yes, in our times people use tattoos, piercings, etc. Doesn't seem that different.
- Someone 7y agoIn China, foot binding (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_binding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_binding) was a status symbol (and a lot more cruel than dueling scars) I thought the Kayan practice of wearing lots of brass coils around the neck also was a status symbol, but Wikipedia doesn’t mention it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayan_people_(Myanmar) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayan_people_(Myanmar) ) Not having a tan (shows you don’t have to work in the fields) also was a status symbol at some time. Then, it became having a tan in early spring (shows you’re well enough of to go on a skiing holiday) or winter (shows you also can go on holiday in autumn). Nowadays, having a tan year round again can again show lack of status (uses a tanning bed because of lack of funds to go on holiday) I guess obvious (but not too obvious) use of aesthetic surgery or Botox served as a status symbol at some time, too, but here, too, that signal is confusing nowadays.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y agoDueling scars are still a thing in Germany today. Here's an interesting first-person account: https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/69224/how-can-a-tourist-obtain-an-authentic-duelling-scar https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/69224/how-can-a-t...
- philshem 7y agocool, thanks. (that link goes to the question. here's a direct link to the first-person account: https://travel.stackexchange.com/a/69363 https://travel.stackexchange.com/a/69363)
- serf 7y agoI have a gash across my hand from cutting myself as a kid on a bare ATX case I was pulling a motherboard out of. A friend spooked me while I was at work on the motherboard, I quickly recoiled, but my hand caught the razor sharp edge of a stamped steel case. The scar is still there, and fairly large. I've always called it my geek dueling scar. I guess the ATX case was the winner?
- Waterluvian 7y agoI have a 9 inch scar down my leg where my then-kitten fell off my lap and used his claw like a cutlass-wielding pirate rappelling down an unfurled sail. Pirate cat won the duel.
- lonelappde 7y agoThe case is just a skeleton. Is the computer still alive?
- kencausey 7y agoI think you mean 'exoskeleton'.
- barrkel 7y agoI got one pulling a molex out of the back of a CD drive while pulling the CD drive forward out of a tower case. The front panel had been removed, and the sharp edges of the stamped steel case were exposed; I got a gash on the back of my hand when the molex came out only with great force. It's not huge, about 1 cm in length and 2mm at its widest point, but it's pretty much the only scar on my arms.
- geocrasher 7y agoTo this day I avoid the cheapest of the cheap cases, as the edges can be razor sharp. I cut my hands and fingers on them countless times, but have avoided any big scars.
- motohagiography 7y agoIf you have known rugby players, a north american equivalent today would be cauliflower ear from "the hooligans sport played by gentlemen," or collegiate wrestling, and the less-U brazilian jujitsu. The culture of initiation and rites of passage is rarer today because it shames people who lack whatever virtue the initiation is intended to recognize.
- nigerian1981 7y agoReminds me of an episode of Tales of the Unexpected set in a German university https://youtu.be/naiTvr8TICI https://youtu.be/naiTvr8TICI
- kaskakokos 7y agoVery interesting, thanks. Documentary about it: https://youtu.be/lUh5exBJXBU https://youtu.be/lUh5exBJXBU
- badrabbit 7y agoWas this to impress women or society at large?
- watwut 7y agoOther guys in the peer group?
- chadlavi 7y agoFeel very glad I live in a society where I don't have to mutilate myself for the sake of toxic masculinity.
- amelius 7y agoJust wait until this hits mainstream social media.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- antibland 7y ago> It was important to show one's dueling prowess, but also that one was capable of taking the wound that was inflicted. The modern day engineering equivalent to this is HackerRank.
- domenici2000 7y agoI remember watching a Joe Rogan episode and they mentioned this. Apparently it was a big nazi machismo kind of thing. https://youtu.be/3MZr5J5DOfk?t=550 https://youtu.be/3MZr5J5DOfk?t=550
- hbarka 7y agoMedieval badge of honor. Today it seems so ridiculous.
- jeddaktarkas 7y agoThat might explain the origin of why so many fictional Nazis in movies have facial scars.