5 ms·

This article brings up something I was thinking about when this all first started: cross-immunity with other coronaviruses and whether or not infection with one

This article brings up something I was thinking about when this all first started: cross-immunity with other coronaviruses and whether or not infection with one of them could at least give partial immunity to SARS-CoV-2. As the study points out, there are less harmful human coronaviruses which are thought to cause around 15% of common colds worldwide. I wonder if anybody has thought to research using these viruses as part of an innoculation strategy at least for high-risk groups. After all the first 'vaccine' ever developed in the 18th century (really an innoculation) was to intentionally give people cowpox in order to give them immunity to smallpox. Maybe it's too risky though for some reason? I dunno.

makomk 6y ago
The existing human coronaviruses aren't the most well-researched things around, but as I understand it there's evidence infection with them might actually be pretty dangerous to at-risk people. They just can't cause a pandemic because too many people are immune.
- eloff 6y ago
  The common cold is dangerous to people? The flu, sure, but I never heard of people dying from a cold. I'm sure it happens, but in comparable numbers though? I don't think so.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    Certainly not the same mortality rate, but the common cold does kill people every year due to pneumonia, asthma attacks, etc.
  - ejstronge 6y ago
    You may already know this, but for the sake of others, it’s important to realize that many viruses cause what we refer to as ‘common cold’. Coronaviruses are only a minor component of this set of viruses, as low as 1-2% in a study I read (can’t find it now; this value also depends on lots of factors).
    - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
      FWIW this WebMD article I read a while back puts "colds" as being caused by Coronavirus 20% of the time, https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_causes https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_ca....
      - watwut 6y ago
        This migth depend on location and local climate. The typical cold in my country has different symptoms and length then typical cold 8 hours of drive away south.
    - eloff 6y ago
      I had heard 1/4 of the common cold are Coronaviruses. Thanks for clarifying here though. I tend to be very short on HN for practical purposes.
    - ejstronge 6y ago
      Too late to edit my comment, but a somewhat authoritative source claims 10-15% of colds are caused by coronaviruses (UpToDate, if you're curious). The study I read may have been referring to a specific coronavirus that was mentioned in the original post.
  - guscost 6y ago
    It happens all the time, in exactly the same sense that people are dying “from” COVID-19 (i.e. usually combined with other morbidities). How much of this pandemic is due to the disease actually being worse than other coronavirus diseases, and how much is simply due to the rapid spread/no pre-existing immunity, remains to be seen. Who else here remembers learning that AIDS patients (people with acquired immunodeficiency) can die from the common cold, in school? Is it not common knowledge that old folks can die from a cold, too?
    - eloff 6y ago
      I disagree. I'm unable to find any source with numbers. At best I've seen the statement "it's rarely fatal except in very rare circumstances". Like the flu, you don't die from the flu, but really it's the last straw on top of other issues that pushes people over the edge. But the flu is far more deadly than the common cold, it's misleading to talk about them together like that.
      - guscost 6y ago
        There are no numbers. Nobody has ever bothered to measure it separately from pneumonia. It’s hardly ever tested for or listed under cause of death, even when it’s obviously a factor. Once things change in the aftermath of all of this, we will see if your instinct is correct.
        guscost 6y ago
        Well it turns out I'm wrong about this, there are some studies with numbers but they're pretty rare: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3655081/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3655081/ > Twenty-two percent of all subjects with isolated coronavirus were hospitalized, but in the population aged ≥60 years this increased to 73%. While our study design precludes the determination of exact hospitalization rates as a result of coronavirus infections, the hospitalization rates were similar to those for influenza. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4181476/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4181476/ > The high proportion of non-influenza infection in this study (72%) underscores the importance of non-influenza viral infection in contributing to severe illness necessitating hospital and ICU admission in adults, as has been found by others.
- ummonk 6y ago
  Maybe we could give them to people who aren’t at-risk though, so they are more likely to fight off covid -19 and less likely to transmit it around.
jsight 6y ago
Its been thought of, but I think these kinds of things aren't considered acceptable today. I do wonder if there is some variant of Coronavirus that has been in circulation for a while that causes some immunity, though. There are some strange things in the data, IMO, but there are lots of other possible explanations too.
solarkraft 6y ago
You might be interested in this discussion about that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22830320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22830320
ummonk 6y ago
Yeah I’ve been asking about this for a while with no good answers. Why aren’t we looking into whether it would be helpful to enable every healthy person to get the Coronavirus common cold to help boost herd immunity?
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  Normally modern medicine doesn't make people sick deliberately, because some percentage will always have some time of reaction. And the US is also a litigious society. However, I'm in favor of ending lockdown and letting corona virus run its course, just like the flu every year. That's the fastest way to get herd immunity.
  - ummonk 6y ago
    Yeah, but letting it run its course kills off at least 1% of the population and causes potentially long term lung damage for a sizable portion of the rest of the population.

makomk 6y ago

The existing human coronaviruses aren't the most well-researched things around, but as I understand it there's evidence infection with them might actually be pretty dangerous to at-risk people. They just can't cause a pandemic because too many people are immune.

eloff 6y ago
The common cold is dangerous to people? The flu, sure, but I never heard of people dying from a cold. I'm sure it happens, but in comparable numbers though? I don't think so.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Certainly not the same mortality rate, but the common cold does kill people every year due to pneumonia, asthma attacks, etc.
- ejstronge 6y ago
  You may already know this, but for the sake of others, it’s important to realize that many viruses cause what we refer to as ‘common cold’. Coronaviruses are only a minor component of this set of viruses, as low as 1-2% in a study I read (can’t find it now; this value also depends on lots of factors).
  - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
    FWIW this WebMD article I read a while back puts "colds" as being caused by Coronavirus 20% of the time, https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_causes https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_ca....
    - watwut 6y ago
      This migth depend on location and local climate. The typical cold in my country has different symptoms and length then typical cold 8 hours of drive away south.
  - eloff 6y ago
    I had heard 1/4 of the common cold are Coronaviruses. Thanks for clarifying here though. I tend to be very short on HN for practical purposes.
  - ejstronge 6y ago
    Too late to edit my comment, but a somewhat authoritative source claims 10-15% of colds are caused by coronaviruses (UpToDate, if you're curious). The study I read may have been referring to a specific coronavirus that was mentioned in the original post.
- guscost 6y ago
  It happens all the time, in exactly the same sense that people are dying “from” COVID-19 (i.e. usually combined with other morbidities). How much of this pandemic is due to the disease actually being worse than other coronavirus diseases, and how much is simply due to the rapid spread/no pre-existing immunity, remains to be seen. Who else here remembers learning that AIDS patients (people with acquired immunodeficiency) can die from the common cold, in school? Is it not common knowledge that old folks can die from a cold, too?
  - eloff 6y ago
    I disagree. I'm unable to find any source with numbers. At best I've seen the statement "it's rarely fatal except in very rare circumstances". Like the flu, you don't die from the flu, but really it's the last straw on top of other issues that pushes people over the edge. But the flu is far more deadly than the common cold, it's misleading to talk about them together like that.
    - guscost 6y ago
      There are no numbers. Nobody has ever bothered to measure it separately from pneumonia. It’s hardly ever tested for or listed under cause of death, even when it’s obviously a factor. Once things change in the aftermath of all of this, we will see if your instinct is correct.
      - guscost 6y ago
        Well it turns out I'm wrong about this, there are some studies with numbers but they're pretty rare: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3655081/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3655081/ > Twenty-two percent of all subjects with isolated coronavirus were hospitalized, but in the population aged ≥60 years this increased to 73%. While our study design precludes the determination of exact hospitalization rates as a result of coronavirus infections, the hospitalization rates were similar to those for influenza. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4181476/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4181476/ > The high proportion of non-influenza infection in this study (72%) underscores the importance of non-influenza viral infection in contributing to severe illness necessitating hospital and ICU admission in adults, as has been found by others.
ummonk 6y ago
Maybe we could give them to people who aren’t at-risk though, so they are more likely to fight off covid -19 and less likely to transmit it around.

jsight 6y ago

Its been thought of, but I think these kinds of things aren't considered acceptable today. I do wonder if there is some variant of Coronavirus that has been in circulation for a while that causes some immunity, though. There are some strange things in the data, IMO, but there are lots of other possible explanations too.

solarkraft 6y ago

You might be interested in this discussion about that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22830320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22830320

ummonk 6y ago

Yeah I’ve been asking about this for a while with no good answers. Why aren’t we looking into whether it would be helpful to enable every healthy person to get the Coronavirus common cold to help boost herd immunity?

redis_mlc 6y ago
Normally modern medicine doesn't make people sick deliberately, because some percentage will always have some time of reaction. And the US is also a litigious society. However, I'm in favor of ending lockdown and letting corona virus run its course, just like the flu every year. That's the fastest way to get herd immunity.
- ummonk 6y ago
  Yeah, but letting it run its course kills off at least 1% of the population and causes potentially long term lung damage for a sizable portion of the rest of the population.