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Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

592 points by light3 16y ago

ez77 16y ago
Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie If you just learn this 'fact', then some of the facts you know about fitness will of necessity be true, consistency willing.
barista 16y ago
That's right because us hackers really care about fitness
- nopassrecover 16y ago
  Is this sarcasm that hackers don't like being healthy or a kind of pun about AI algorithms?
  - sliverstorm 16y ago
    Some hackers still need to learn to put two and two together. That is to say, fitness + good eating = many years of happy hacking
  - tomjen3 16y ago
    Its not necessarily that they have a problem being healthy, all things considered I would prefer that too. The problem is that it takes time and is boring. I don't care if it means I live a few years longer since I will be too old and infirm to be able to hack.
    - nopassrecover 16y ago
      The aging and infirmity will come a lot quicker if you don't look out for your health. Being healthy might mean you live say 30 years longer, but that isn't just 30 more years of being infirm, it's say 20 more years of good hack-healthy years and 10 more infirm. Besides, the energy benefits right now and the impact that has on how much you can hack is far more easily noticed than the potential lifespan differences.
- anonymoushn 16y ago
  I hope so.
- radu_floricica 16y ago
  As it happens it's a pretty popular subject. Hacker Diet (http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/ http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/) is a book written by Autodesk's Founder, there's a pretty active corner at Reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/fitness http://www.reddit.com/r/fitness), and this is definitely not the first post on the subject I've seen on HN.
  - whakojacko 16y ago
    ...and if you read /r/fitness with any remote regularity then most of this article isn't very surprising at all.
    - piguy314 16y ago
      SS+Squatz+Oatz bro That's what you'd say at least if /r/fitness is anything like /fit/ on 4chan.
- momotomo 16y ago
  I've never met a successful person who was an unmotivated lardass. Probably close to 2/3rds of the people who I've worked with that are in the top of their fields are crazy about cycling, marital arts, running, etc. It just takes too much energy to go hard enough to achieve big things, I wouldn't even consider it practical if you don't have some degree of physical fitness.
  - jamii 16y ago
    I guess marital arts do burn a lot of energy.
    - thenomad 16y ago
      Some of the best cardio you can get. Stuff like Muay Thai and Karate's pretty good too.
- Dylanlacey 16y ago
  Because I can't downvote you, I'll comment. We do. A lot. Because we're not sitting in our parent's basements eating pizza and chugging mountain dew, we're not hacking the gibson and we're not sweaty, unbathed, pimply losers. We're motivated, we're not planning to die anytime soon, we're concerned with being able to do things, we're social, we're active and we're sick of the stereotypes. I'm going to make a massive assumption that your sarcasm was intended to hide the fact that you yourself are ashamed of your fitness. You can't hide behind your profession, your job or your peers. You are the reason you are unfit, unhealthy, eat badly and don't exercise. There truly is no-one else to blame. But since you're here I assume you have a desire to change the world somehow, so I truly hope you're able to get past any shame and fear you may feel and do something about your problem. If a feeling of inadequacy is not the problem, they you need to socialize more with hackers... Being a slob in the basement went out the window with the Apple Lisa and Gen X having hair.
  - tomjen3 16y ago
    Looking at your comment, I can't understand why it got upvoted since you are just replacing one set of stereotypes with another, which may fit better with what society wants you to but is still a stereotype. Now if you want that thats perfectly alright, but I at least only want to spend as little time as possible caring about my body and as little time as possible with normal people since both things are utterly boring.
    - mattgreenrocks 16y ago
      > Now if you want that thats perfectly alright, but I at least only want to spend as little time as possible caring about my body and as little time as possible with normal people since both things are utterly boring. You do have a point. Conformity is not the way. But, at the same time, I'm sad you feel those things are boring. Allow me to explain. I used to be in your shoes, at least in the fitness aspect. I was a bit of a curmudgeon who'd figured life out at age 24 and decided that I'd be happy programming for, well, ever. That worked well until about age 27, when it started to wear thin. Deadlines, feature creep, a billion new technologies...who cares? It was losing its luster quickly. When I turned 28, I came down with carpal tunnel-like symptoms stemming from an overuse injury. I had to leave my job to give my body time to heal. I learned the hard way that I had to respect my body, and respect myself more. The time I've put in on fitness has enhanced the rest of my life a disproportionate amount. I'm much smarter about what I eat, and I feel better, and I sleep so much better now. Because the sleep is higher quality, I don't need as much of it. I awaken ready to engage the day, rather than slinking through it. The secret of this is that the body was never meant to be disconnected from the mind. The two are engaged in an continual feedback loop whereby one is reinforcing the actions of the others with beliefs/chemicals. You just need to gently prod the two into better habits in order to feel better. As for people, well, that's what life's all about.
baddox 16y ago
These links to auto-printing pages are unacceptable. Link me to the normal display article in these cases. I'll take it from there.
- 6ren 16y ago
  You're concerned, but don't add the link: http://www.mensjournal.com/everything-you-know-about-fitness-is-a-lie http://www.mensjournal.com/everything-you-know-about-fitness... As for me, I prefer the version on one page, with no ads. Clicking "cancel" is not too high a price to pay (for me).
- socillion 16y ago
  I'm not sure about other browsers, but I'd like to point out that Firefox with Noscript is very effective at preventing the print popups.
- vaksel 16y ago
  and if he linked it normally, chances are someone(maybe even you) would post, bitching that they don't want to read 10 pages of an article and to just link to the print page the next time.
  - baddox 16y ago
    That's why I requested that only in these cases where the print link autoprints should the normal link be used.
- Splines 16y ago
  Browsers should just not have auto-printing. How much time is saved by not having to press CTRL+P? Likewise, how much time is wasted because of unintentional print dialogs (like this one) and how much time is wasted in developing and maintaining such a feature? I say cut it, nobody is going to miss it.
  - pjscott 16y ago
    Printing from browsers in general is a mess. Is there a printable version of the page? Is there a CSS stylesheet that changes the appearance for print? Do you use Ctrl-P, or is there some little "click here to print" button you have to find on the page to not have everything be messed up? I didn't realize how complicated this was until I tried to explain it to my grandparents.
momotomo 16y ago
I get the logic and intent behind these kind of articles but at the same time they infuriate me, because this is the kind of crap that people read and use as yet-another-reason as to why they don't try to get fit. Sure, machines aren't perfect, and they railroad your form, but it's better than nothing. I train on machines, _and_ with free weight, _and_ doing bodyweight / crossfit stuff. They all have their place. There's no way I'd try to pull the rep max on a free barbell that I would on a smith machine, but it says nothing about how effective one or the other is. It's like the whole internet self defense huff. A billion words written on the technicalities of all the different martial arts but most fights are won by punching the other guy repeatedly hard enough to stop him hitting you. Sure it's not perfect, but its taking action and it gets results.
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  There's no way I'd try to pull the rep max on a free barbell that I would on a smith machine Why not? So long as you're not being stupid, a spotter and/or the safeties built into the cage/rack or bench should do fine.
  - Hyphen-ated 16y ago
    You'd be almost guaranteed to fail the lift. Smith machines let you use higher weight because you don't have to spend energy stabilizing the barbell. With safety bars failing isn't a huge deal, it's just pointless.
    - billswift 16y ago
      As the original article pointed out, the effect of strengthening the stabilizing muscles is WHY free weights are superior for fitness.
    - sliverstorm 16y ago
      Oh, he's talking about raw numbers. I guess in retrospect, that's obvious, but when I replied I thought he was saying he doesn't push himself as hard with free weights.
chipsy 16y ago
The article's conclusion: Lift big with classic lifts. Gain strength. What I actually do: Take walks and do isometrics on convenient bars, poles, etc. Max power, 5-10 second holds, multiple angles. The better I am about those rules, the more progress I make. More effective than any gym I've ever been in.
- fingerprinter 16y ago
  I understand what you are saying...isometrics are awesome...I actually do them almost everyday and I swear by them. I also swear by dynamic tension flexing, which brings great results. But don't confuse those results with the results from classic big lifts. Like I said, I do isometrics all the time, but squats, deadlifts, benchpress and pullups are going to develop your musculature in ways isometrics never could. What I'm doing now is a class lift style of back squats, deadlifts and benchpress 5x5 program for strength. Progress 5 pounds each session (make sure you start very low so you can build up) and end the each session with a circuit of your choosing x 3 (I normally do something like BW to failure of pullups, pushups, dips, plank, bridge/mule kick, ...then break and do it all again). Total workout including warmup takes 45 minutes max (I warm up for about 20 minutes). This will build tons of muscle and you will gain strength very quickly. Though, make sure you eat right (Paleo) and cut out the crappy foods like grains/glutens/sugars and you will see fantastic results (if you still eat grains and the like, you'll gain weight, but you likely won't lose any fat .... some people call this "shitty weight" akin to drinking 2 gallons of milk a day).
  - freshfey 16y ago
    +1 for 5x5. I'm currently on the Texas Method and I'm love the volume on the squats and the deadlifts. I eat pre and post workout carbs though, to make sure I got enough energy (bulking phase right now). The fat you gain is easy to lose afterwards!
emeltzer 16y ago
Prisoners are among the most fit people in the world, despite an absence of good machines, good diet, coaches, and instructional material. If you want to be fit, start exercising--a nice way to get started is to truly understand that any kind of exercise is very much better than doing nothing.
- ryanfitz 16y ago
  I have read on various weight lifting forums that at least some prisoners smuggle in steroids, protein powders/bars and also steal extra food when they can. This would certainly lead them to getting into great shape if all they do is workout and get the needed supplements. Also, I don't know about you, but I don't personally know anyone in jail, so other than perception that guys in jail are huge, I'm not really sure its true.
  - freshfey 16y ago
    Good read here: Training Behind Bars Pt. 1: http://goo.gl/epno3 http://goo.gl/epno3 Training Behind Bars Pt. 2: http://goo.gl/ppvHU http://goo.gl/ppvHU Easily two of the best articles on T-Nation.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  They also have incredible incentive to get in shape, and a ton of free time to kill, and tend to have problems with aggression. That adds up. And your own personal muscle mass and melee fighting capability is pretty much the only weapon the prison allows you to have.
- ohyes 16y ago
  I agree with you if we area talking about Hollywood movie prisoners. If you truly want to get fit, commit a felony.
- Groxx 16y ago
  Their diets are better than what my schools (any of them) served for lunch. Seriously. If that's all people ate, our prison population would be half what it is now, it'd simply kill at least half of them off within a few years.
ryanfitz 16y ago
When it comes to lifting the only real "fact" is that what works best varies from person to person. People with great genetics can do heavy volume lifting 5 or 6 days a week and make amazing gains. Meanwhile, others will struggle to make any progress even with a low volume 2 day a week routine because their body doesn't recover well. Just go out there, experiment and see what works for you.
- piguy314 16y ago
  Starting strength works for everybody irrespective of genetics
- eru 16y ago
  Yes. But just include the workout from Starting Strength (or similar) in your experiments. It should work for nearly all beginners.
Herring 16y ago
I recently started on "starting strength" & I'm seeing that exact same linear progression. It's really awesome.
peteriliev 16y ago
Wow, that's interesting :)
toadi 16y ago
I have lifted weights for 15 years. But now I ditched the gym all together. Got bored with neon lights, the smell of sweat and watching fat people run on a treadmill ;) Now I only sport outdoors and for muscle strength I use kettle-bells: http://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Strength-Secret-Soviet-Supermen/dp/0938045695/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1299227111&sr=8-3 http://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Strength-Secret-Soviet-Supe... Just read http://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Strength-Secret-Soviet-Supermen/dp/0938045695/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1299227111&sr=8-3 http://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Strength-Secret-Soviet-Supe... and you know enough. No expensive equipment needed and it takes only 3 times 30 to 40 minutes a week to gain considerable strength and cardio!
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
tintin 16y ago
Without the printer pop: http://www.mensjournal.com/everything-you-know-about-fitness-is-a-lie/ http://www.mensjournal.com/everything-you-know-about-fitness...
macco 16y ago
My two cents on fitness: 1. Do something you like. This way you stick to it. 2. Don't overthink it, if you are just doing fitness for your health. There is not such thing like a perfect fat burning workout, etc. 3. My ideas don't count if you are an athlete who wants to improve on performance. No go out and do something, dont read this crappy article
georgieporgie 16y ago
I have one bit of specialized weight training advice. We all spend entirely too much time in front of our computers, typically hunched or slouched back, deep in thought. Ten years of doing this professionally led to shoulder/neck problems, culminating in a pinched nerve between my C6 and C7 vertebrae. It improved with physical therapy, but was never truly fixed, and has bothered me off and on for two years now, despite my adherence to the therapist's rubber band and stretching routine. I heard through a relative about "Upper Cross Syndrome". Whether that's specifically what I have or not, I don't know, but the symptoms match quite well. Read about it, and you'll probably see that it perfectly describes so many tech people: http://www.active.com/fitness/Articles/Avoid_upper_cross_syndrome_and_maintain_rotator_cuff_stability.htm http://www.active.com/fitness/Articles/Avoid_upper_cross_syn... Exercise 6, "External rotation top to bottom" has literally changed my life, and it did so within the first week. For the first time in as long as I can remember, I maintain proper posture at the keyboard (and while walking around). I still get nerve issues if I spend too many days in a row at the computer, but I can't describe to you how much better I feel now than I did after physical therapy!
- jobu 16y ago
  Thanks for the link. I recently injured my neck (c5-c6 and c6-c7), and the physical therapist has suggested a few exercises, but was unable to explain the purpose or benefit of them.
  - DTrejo 16y ago
    There's also a graphic further down in the article about how to prevent various injuries (search 'kevin brown'): http://www.mensjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/picture-81.jpg http://www.mensjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/picture-81.jpg
- jquery 16y ago
  Get a stand up desk, or failing that create a makeshift one with cardboard boxes. I started doing that 9 months ago. Now all my back problems are gone. 10% of my company,or roughly 20 people, have since happily switched.
mkramlich 16y ago
I sometimes wish we could delete the entire fitness industry from the world and replace it with a few lines of text, something like this: eat right, exercise, get adequate sleep, reduce stress, get variety, use natural motions, breathe deep, get yourself winded intentionally from time to time, when in doubt walk, etc. The vast majority of people probably never need to go near a fancy weight machine or even lift artificial weights of any kind. Just carrying out normal actions in the Earth's gravitational field, putting your body through all the natural ranges of motion it's capable of doing, is actually pretty darn adequate, and can build muscle and improve figure and physical capabilities. I believe most of the industry is not much more honest than a shyster trying to sell snake oil.
- someperson 16y ago
  Forgive my ignorance but how exactly does being winded help somebody become fit. By getting yourself winded do you mean being punched in the stomach hard enough to lose your breath for a moment, or something else?
  - mkramlich 16y ago
    ie. go running. do jumping jacks. get your heart and lung going. push yourself beyond what your cardio system needs to do under normal/static conditions.
  - yogipatel 16y ago
    Something else — the feeling you get after some kind of strenuous activity that raises your heart/breathing rate. Running, for example. What you're referring to is getting the wind knocked out of you.
    - dagw 16y ago
      For what it's worth I've never heard what you describe called "winded". To me winded means getting the wind knocked out of you. I wonder if it is a regional thing.
msy 16y ago
Given he calls Crossfit sadistic it's ironic he's basically describing it. Free weights, core strength, a focus on overall fitness and all aspects thereof over abstract weight numbers. It's not complicated and plenty of people know it. Hyperbolic headlines are intensely irritating.
- zzygan 16y ago
  So true. I've only fairly recently gotten into crossfit, and although it is very hard, and very intense, everything he talks about the article is focused on, comes up in various crossfit workouts, as well as a hell of a lot more stuff that makes you so much more versitile than just strength. The thing i hate about crossfit is the "coach" thing, but that must be something I just dont get.
- freshfey 16y ago
  Not exactly. In Crossfit times and reps matter more than form. Just take a look at some gyms. The exercises and the philosophy behind is awesome, but the practical appliance is far from great.
  - jokull 16y ago
    There's an emphasis on improving scores and people get carried away for sure. But in the two boxes I've trained at there's a culture for good form and working on technique. "Honesty in motion, honesty in counting". I believe it's a CrossFit thing.
    - freshfey 16y ago
      There are definitely boxes who focus on good form, which is great (and should be the norm), but I think due to the fact that the Level 1 cert is so easy to get, the quality suffers in some gyms.
    - jacques_chester 16y ago
      > I believe it's a CrossFit thing. Based on this claim I assume also that Crossfit invented the barbell, the bumper plate and gravity. The sudden outburst of anecdotes about how your Crossfit gym rooly trooly emphasises form seems to have come after years of sustained criticism by strength coaches and Olympic weightlifting coaches. It's as simple as this: nobody -- not me, not you, not your coach, not the pros -- nobody can pump out high rep Oly movements without steady and ultimately dangerous degradation in form. The force plate studies, the EEG studies, the eyeballing of experienced coaches demonstrate over and over and over that it is a flat out stupid idea to do snatches or cleans for reps. And yet in Crossfit gyms everywhere, this idea of smashing out 20 clean & jerks still keeps getting circulated. You cannot do this and learn to do the movements precisely enough. You will only train yourselves to do it messily. Under heavy weights you will fuck up and injure yourself. Given that I love Oly lifting, I don't want people getting injured and then blaming the lifts, when they should be blaming a faulty training technique.
phil 16y ago
It's funny because this kind of article always ends up recommending a simple, classic free weight program. Then you look at the gyms they refer to, and they've got people doing stuff like this: http://www.mtnathlete.com/page.php?page_ID=2 http://www.mtnathlete.com/page.php?page_ID=2
- dpritchett 16y ago
  GPP [1] is the sort of thing people add to their programs when they're already doing basic weight routines all the time and they want to see even more progress. You don't have to start dragging rocks on day 1. [1] http://www.elitefts.com/documents/gpp.htm http://www.elitefts.com/documents/gpp.htm
jasonkester 16y ago
If you really want to get fit, there's one easy thing you can do that actually works: Take up a sport that gets you fit as a side effect. I have two obsessions in life: Rock Climbing and Surfing. I'm pretty good at the first, and borderline hopeless at the other, but I'm committed to the point where I've arranged my life so that I can travel for months at a time to pursue one or the other each year. When I'm working a contract to save up for the next trip, I'll find myself slowly fattening up on fish tacos and 12 hour days coding in a felt cube with only the occasional after work or weekend fix of rock or salt water. After a few months I'm decidedly soft, and quite a bit heavier. But put me on the beach in Thailand for 5 months and holy crap, what a difference. It's like Fat Camp out there. There's so much fun climbing to be had right on the beach. Overhanging routes that work you into the sort of shape that lets you literally hand-over-hand your way out a horizontal roof by your fingertips as your feet dangle out in space. Without anybody forcing you, you spend your entire day working yourself silly, then you come back and eat rice. You can imagine what that does for your physique. It's like a convention of Men's Health cover models out there. I come back to the world, and watch people going to the gym and clearly hating every minute of it. I can't understand why they would do that to themselves, when there's a climbing gym just a few miles away.
- ilovecomputers 16y ago
  Also, don't eat boxed foods or foods that went through multiple stages of processing. In Defense of Food by Michael Pollan spells it out very well, but I'll just give you my simple definition: Eating healthy is as close to eating dirt without actually eating dirt. Produce, grain, cheese, 1/2 pound to a pound of meat a week[1], and whatever else Marion Nestle recommends[1.5]. Just imagine what primitive man would eat. He would spend most of his days eating what grew from the ground and when they finally hunted down meat, they would eat their catch as a group[2]. That doesn't mean you have to do exactly that, but try to keep your eating habits in sync with what it was originally adapted to consume not what hyper stimulates made you believe it wanted to consume[3]. Now don't go about forcing yourself to eat stuff you don't enjoy. In the same manner jasonkester engages in something he enjoys that have the "side effect" of being healthy (I still think these activities are something we were adapted to engage in the first place), find foods you find delicious but also happen to be something that isn't processed. I can assure you that there is plenty of "healthy" or "natural" foods out there that you would enjoy[4]. [1]http://www.ted.com/talks/mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_what_we_eat.html http://www.ted.com/talks/mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_w... [1.5]http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=eating-made-simple http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=eating-made... [2]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3723678050599653349# http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3723678050599653349# [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzN-uIVkfjg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzN-uIVkfjg [4]http://smittenkitchen.com/ http://smittenkitchen.com/
mmaunder 16y ago
This is a one sided view of fitness. e.g. there is zero focus on cardio. Would be interesting to see one of these guys do a light 5 mile run. Look into real world training: running, hard hiking with a pack, mountain biking, swimming/surfing. These types of exercise have been the most rewarding for me in terms of skeletal, muscle and cardio fitness. The only thing I agree with in the article is that cardio machines in the gym are a waste of time.
- jrockway 16y ago
  The only thing I agree with in the article is that cardio machines in the gym are a waste of time. Not sure this is really true or that it matters. A 5 mile run on the treadmill at an x minute pace is the same as a 5 mile run outside at an x minute pace. Advantages of the treadmill include being able to keep a given pace without making any particular mental effort. Advantages of being outside is that it's not boring.
  - gaius 16y ago
    Hmm, well it's more subtle than that. Running on a "real" surface, that is constantly changing gradient and direction, works a lot of ancillary muscles for stability and balance that you don't get on a treadmill. The cardio workout might be the same. But if you trained for a Marathon only on a treadmill, you'd be in for a bit of a surprise when you tried a real one. Without the core strength you'd lose your form, your running would be less efficient, you'd get exhausted much more quickly.
    - mikepurvis 16y ago
      Also air resistance, which is zero when you're stationary.
    - nollidge 16y ago
      The other thing I've noticed is that when running on a treadmill, it may seem like your legs are making roughly the same motion as real running, but you're not pushing yourself forward, just upward. Your legs definitely don't have to work as hard pushing your body around.
gexla 16y ago
I think a lot of the comments here are missing the point of this article. Free weights are vital for muscle strength, mass and edurance. That doesn't mean free weights take the place of your other activities such as skiing or mountain climbing. That doesn't mean that you cut out cardio, that's something else entirely, even though some people work on cardio in the gym along with strength training. Free weights are also great for building the entire structure of your body. There is nothing which can stress the major muscles of the legs, bones and supporting muscle groups like throwing a huge weight on your shoulders and squatting that weight multiple times. Swimming, isometrics and all that other stuff won't do it. Machines also don't do this because you don't have weight to stabilize in both directions. The power move of the squat is to push upwards with your legs but you still have to lower that huge weight in an orderly down movement to start the exercise.
- light3 16y ago
  Further, you should eat well and wait for your muscles to recover, the optimal time to retrain is during 'overcompensation', 40-60 hours for endurance and 48-72 hours for power, strength and mass. As well, you should exercise 'weak muscles' to avoid injury, for people sitting in front of computers a lot it really helps to exercise the back muscles.
  - rfergie 16y ago
    Where does the 40-60 hours for endurance come from? I'm a former endurance athlete and used to train twice a day
    - light3 16y ago
      You're probably right, I was quoting from the overcompensation graph, the other chart actually says 8 sessions/week for endurance.
- rue 16y ago
  Actually it kinda reads exactly like cutting out cardio for the most part, though admittedly I only skimmed through it. Perhaps it isn't communicating its point very well? Personally I heavily favour cardiovascular fitness over muscular fitness, and would choose the former in a heartbeat (ahaha) if I had to pick one. Currently I cycle and do astanga, though I plan on adding some low-rep strength training to the mix too.
Bvalmont 16y ago
Or: just go for the skinny pale look. Really works thanks to those twilight and social network movies.
jules 16y ago
[citation needed] Here's another anecdote: No lifting weights, only running & cycling and lately swimming. Pretty much the opposite of what the article is arguing. Since I started this I'm doing I'm doing fairly well, six pack included. I went to the gym once, and saw bulked up guys getting 5 pull ups. So I tried that and could easily do 30. Lifting weights may make you look like a bodybuilder, but are you really fit?
- mzl 16y ago
  You do realize that the bulked up guys probably weigh a lot more than you do so the number of achieved pull-ups is not an interesting measure? The really bulked-up ones most likely train for muscle mass, not for any useful activity.
  - jules 16y ago
    Sure, they do weigh a lot more than I do. Isn't that part of the fair comparison? You don't give a cyclist or runner a backpack with weights in it because it's "unfair" that he weighs less than the other cyclist/runner. These guys were probably training pull ups every week at least, so it's on their home territory. Yet their training is less effective than running & cycling. For the vast majority of activities, performance relative to body weight is the interesting measure, not absolute weight lifted. I'm just saying that if lifting weights is so much better than other forms of training, why weren't they able to do pull ups much better? My second point is that yes, this is an anecdote. So is the article. Don't take either as a scientific inquiry.
    - scott_s 16y ago
      You also arbitrarily decided that number of pull-ups was going to be your metric for determining who was more fit.
    - tensor 16y ago
      And in a rock lifting competition they would win easily. I don't see your point. You pick an arbitrary metric that you happen to be good at and declare victory. As it stands, all you've done is point out that there are different tasks and depending on your target task the ideal body composition and training routine differs. If you want to be good at pullups you should probably let all your leg muscles atrophy and just build lats and biceps.
neutronicus 16y ago
As someone who just tried to start this kind of thing (heavy squat/deadlift every couple of days) and hurt my lower back pretty good, I just don't know about this advice.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- NZ_Matt 16y ago
  That is why all the training programs tell you to start out lifting light (even just the bar by itself) and gradually add weight over time as your technique improves. If you use common sense and follow the guides you won't get hurt.
- astrogirl 16y ago
  That's because your form stinks. Squats and deads don't hurt you unless you do them incorrectly.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    Both are too easy to hurt yourself. This is why, for example, why deadlifts are generally not recommended for professional athletes. For example, notice Kobe doesn't do deadlifts: http://www.nbaplayerworkouts.com/kobe-bryant http://www.nbaplayerworkouts.com/kobe-bryant The delta in benefit is not worth a back injury.
    - rdouble 16y ago
      That article says Kobe does power cleans, which are riskier than deadlifts for back injury.
      - kenjackson 16y ago
        I tend to find them a lot safer. The weight used is a lot less and is much more forgiving of improper back posture. With that said, for beginners, I do think that the Power Clean is more dangerous. More places to make a mistake. But for an ahlete with strength training background, deadlift is more dangerous, I think largely due to the weight. I've seen too many people with what looked like perfect form hurt their back.
withoutfriction 16y ago
As a bible for starting fitness training, might I add that Starting Strength [1], by Mark Rippetoe, is a must read. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287803 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287803
drstrangevibes 16y ago
great article , the only question I have is how to accurately measure when your muscles reach super compensation peak?
- eru 16y ago
  For starters: You don't. Just do your strength training three times a week, more or less every two days. Works.
dualogy 16y ago
I swear by bodyweight-only resistance / circular strength training. Currently doing TacFit -- despite their ridiculous hard-sell marketing which is uselessly and pointlessly "spec ops" and warrior-themed (I won't link as I'm not affiliated other than a legit happy user). But there are more body-weight approaches than that one. Google circular strength training / CST and much cheaper than buying the TacFit videos would be getting a used paperback copy of "You are your own gym". It's body-weight only, unlike gyms no machines, unlike crossfit no other weights. BENEFIT: keep travelling without buying equipment you don't want to carry in your luggage. Don't maintain x gym memberships around the world. It burns fat (don't really need that too much yet) faster and more efficiently in less time than hours doing aerobic running / swimming / cycling would. Aerobic exercises may be good for heart and lungs, but for calory burning they're laughable. BENEFIT: muscle building and calory burning in one workout. (Of course, if you wanna look like The Hulk you'll need to have weights at least kettlebell dumbell or indian clubs, daily protein counting and all the bodybuilding stuff. BUT you will look incredibly impressive with just bodyweight / Tacfit after only 20-30 days of good form, and it only gets better from there -- you even retain a good amount of the goodness after pausing from it up to 2 months afterwards, which a longer hospital attendance may force upon you). No rep-counting, time-under-tension matters. This matches your bodily clockworks. Your muscles don't count reps either. Time under tension, whether you only get 2 reps under perfect form (important) or 20. BENEFIT: no counting, just stopwatch. There are no off-days, you cycle through 4 consecutive days (no intensity day 1: 20 mins, low intensity day 2: 20 mins, moderate intensity day 3: 40 mins, high intensity day 4: 40 mins) all the time. After 4x7 days, it is time to level up, adding sophistication, more challenging movements etc. to keep the body from adapting. TacFit in my view is a pretty unique mix of exercises and movements recombining elements of martial arts, yoga, classical bodyweight exercises and more, that help you on joint mobility, flexibility, core strength, muscle building, posterior improvement and both injury prevention and proofing -- all in a pre-defined package that will last you 9 months in a row without having to customize, modify or tweak the program. Afterwards, add weights, take 5 days off and start from scratch, mix or match, etc. BENEFIT: minimum time investment gets you results in all areas that matter, including but not limited to mere appearance and looks. Boy I sound like a marketer but this is really hacker-friendly, entrepreneur-friendly, productive-but-time-pressed-busy-person friendly. It revolves around so much research and experimentation done by the coaches who composed this after decades of experience. They're on Facebook, real people giving sensible advice to everyone and anyone dropping by asking questions. They get 70-80 year old people incredibly fit that couldn't survive neither a gym nor a crossfit session. (But rest assured their exercises are not granny material, they will kick your butt no matter your stage of physical development.) I'm seriously impressed with their stuff. You can browse my past comments here over the last 3 years, I'm not usually writing marketing copy for commercial digital goods around here at all. So this is really simply "everything I need to know about fitness" and I really do think it's the most hacker-suitable option out there.
stcredzero 16y ago
First, I realized that we all live in a kind of Fitness Fog, a miasma of lies and misinformation that we mistake for common sense, and that makes most of our gym time a complete waste. The big news here, is that there are many kinds of such mental fog. You can read this article and learn how to get fit more effectively, but there is an even deeper lesson here.
deleted 16y ago
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- brown9-2 16y ago
  Did you miss the part of the article where the author is in his forties and suffering through knee and back problems attained in adolescence? I'm not sure how the joke you relay here is suppose to be anything like an argument, data, or reasoning.
- jnorthrop 16y ago
  I'll start off by stating that I disagree with you whole-heartily about the benefits (or dangers) of lifting heavy weights -- that is when done correctly and with a full range-of-motion. I think your 3 point philosophy for life-long health is dead-on but I think the second point "move your body through space, sometimes with volume, sometimes with intensity" is too abstract and certainly open to interpretation. Does the hour of pickup soccer I played last night count? (A pretty intense hour of sprinting) To me, yes. To others maybe walking the dog with a brief jog to the door from the end of the driveway is as intense as it gets. I would argue that "walking the dog" doesn't cut it if that is your "sometimes with intensity" definition. Every person needs to squat and deadlift heavy things from time to time. And that does not need to happen in a gym -- a good sized rock suffices. Doing so will help with mobility, bone density, strength and balance. And if those movements cause injury then they need to fix the disfuctions that aren't allowing proper movement. Not addressing those issues will lead to hip, should and back problems down the line whether they lift or not.
brown9-2 16y ago
Mainstream men’s fitness magazines have no larger mission than profitable advertising sales, which means endless pitches for useless (if not outright dangerous) dietary supplements and articles on “Seven Steps to Great Abs,” always omitting the all-important Step Eight: In order to make your six-pack even remotely visible to the naked eye, reduce your total body fat to an inhuman 10 percent. This describes just about every issue of "Mens Health" magazine, by the way.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
xiaoma 16y ago
The author clearly equates fitness with strength, and some of his claims are way off. Here's one: "...maintaining cardiovascular fitness doesn’t really take much more than breathing uncomfortably hard for about 20 minutes, three times a week" As a former competitive runner, I've read hundreds of studies and abstracts about improving various cardio-vasuclar metrics. 20 minutes, three times a week is barely enough to generate even modest VO2 max improvements. Ideally it takes 40-60 minutes, five times a week, plus an extra long session of over 90 minutes. This is about the minimum training you'll see in a 5k runner or 1000m swimmer. Top 10k runners generally require 70-90 minutes a day, even when doing interval work and have long runs of over two hours. The results of this sort of training are measurable. LT, VO2max, resting HR and a variety of other metrics show a dose dependent response. Many studies[1] have also demonstrated that even recreational distance training results in a wide variety of benefits that weight training does not, even including increased rates of neurogenesis and longer telemeres than average for one's age. Weight training clearly is superior for increasing muscle and bone mass, but it isn't a magical silver bullet that improves everything. [1] I've cited all of these on hn before, most don't have paywalls and they should be googleable.
- scotty79 16y ago
  You don't feel fit if you can run 5k but you struggle to move a fridge or feel strain while lifting up you kid or your woman.
  - xiaoma 16y ago
    Speak for yourself. I'm a bit more evolved than that sort of attitude.
    - scotty79 16y ago
      I think feeling fit is about effortlessly dealing with physical things you usually have to deal with in your life. "My car broke. No problem. I'll just run 5 miles to work." situation does not occur very often.
pge 16y ago
would you take coding advice from someone that couldn't write "hello world" in C? Then don't take fitness advice from someone that, by his own admission, could only squat 40 lbs before he wrote the article...
- jimmyk 16y ago
  For your analogy, he couldn't write "hello world" in C before writing the article. Before finishing the article, he was able to write software better than the vast majority of developers. While writing the article, he received training and advice from the person who trained the best developers. I'd sure pay attention.
  - pge 16y ago
    I have to disagree - your assessment would suggest that at the end he was more fit than the vast majority of people that try to be fit, and that his teacher was the best in the world. My point was simply that he did not have a frame of reference to evaluate the quality of the fitness program he took on relative to other programs with competent instructors (since his lack of fitness demonstrated that he had never had any competent instruction). To keep the analogy from the original post, do you trust a first year CS student to tell you the best way to learn coding? That student finally had a competent teacher and went from zero to writing a lisp compiler in C. What he doesnt realize is so did every other first year college CS student, and they may have had an entirely different curriculum and experience. And they are all at the beginning of a journey, not the end. If the article were written by a pro athlete, for example, that had experimented with lots of different fitness regimes over that course of a life in which he was clearly successful in being fit, I would take it a lot more seriously, just as I would be more interested in hearing about the best methods of learning to write commercial applications from long-time practitioners that had trained many teams over the years in production environments.
    - joebadmo 16y ago
      I think you have to consider the intended audience, though. Seemed to me he was addressing people who had idly dabbled in working out, but quit because they weren't seeing results or were intimidated, and people who chase fad exercises and spend ineffective time in modern gyms. So, in the analogy, I guess it would be for people who have tried to learn to code but couldn't get past basic syntax , and coders who are always chasing the latest language/platform but never really learned the fundamentals...? The analogy might be starting to fail at this point.
jcampbell1 16y ago
not hacker news.
indrekj 16y ago
I started going to gym 3 years ago. My weight was 55kg (122lbs) and height was 182cm (~6ft). Very underweight. I knew nothing about training. So I paid for a personal trainer. He made me program where almost all exercises were on the machines. At least he put squat and bench press there too. I trained when I had time, 2-4 times a week. Last summer I did some arm wrestling with my friend. I lost. I thought what's wrong. I weighed less than my friend, but he didn't do any weight training. So I started looking how to get more strength. I started doing core strength (Squat, bench press, dead lift, press, power clean, pull-ups). No more machines, biceps curls, calf raises, wrist curls, etc. Also, I started eating much more. With last 2 months I've gained 4kg (8-9lbs). My squat is currently 102.5kg (226lbs), that is ~1.4x of my body weight. I've gained more strength and weight with 2 months than I usually did in a year. And what's most important, now I beat my friend :).
acconrad 16y ago
I hate commercial gyms. Give me a barbell that I can clean and a tire for me to flip and I'm a happy guy.
TimothyBurgess 16y ago
I strongly disagree about the "stretching is bad for you" part... but I guess he did say "without your body warmed up"... you always want to stretch before working out but get your body warmed up first by jogging in place or doing jumping jacks or something for a few minutes. You want ballistic stretching and static stretching. It has without a doubt helped with my overall fitness while reducing soreness.
- eru 16y ago
  Have you looked at the relevant studies? Stretching can even cause soreness. (Wikipedia is a good starting point. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness#Prevention http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness#P... and just chase the citations.)
- nickg 16y ago
  Stretching is best done after a strength workout to dissipate blood pooling and lactic acid build up in the muscles. Doing so will reduce muscle soreness and facilitate the muscle recovery process. Of course, stretching in and of itself can (and should) be done as an excellent standalone workout!
sigurrostyp 16y ago
This was a good read.
grobolom 16y ago
I hate articles like this. Not because they don't highlight what a steaming pile the actual fitness and training industry is, but because they're way too slow. Proper training articles have existed for a long time, in easily reachable spots. For all the stupidity at BodyBuilding.com, their forums biggest stickies are those about the 'Starting Strength' workouts - the ones where you deadlift, squat, and bench. T-Nation, another big one, has never advocated anything else for a starting athlete. I just hate when someone posts something like this and goes 'Everything You Know Is A Lie!" No, it's not. I just happen to have read this shit eight years ago, and that was late already.
grobolom 16y ago
I hate articles like this. Not because they don't highlight what a steaming pile the actual fitness and training industry is, but because they're way too slow. Proper training articles have existed for a long time, in easily reachable spots. For all the stupidity at BodyBuilding.com, their forums biggest stickies are those about the 'Starting Strength' workouts - the ones where you deadlift, squat, and bench. T-Nation, another big one, has never advocated anything else for a starting athlete. I just hate when someone posts something like this and goes 'Everything You Know Is A Lie!" No, it's not. I just happen to have read this shit eight years ago, and that was late already.
kenjackson 16y ago
Kind of odd that there's virtually no data in this article. I feel like I could write an article that said the complete opposite and be just as compelling. Seems like a typical "health magazine" article. No data, just conjecture dressed up as fact.
xster 16y ago
Reminds me of the China Study where the author argues that we spend so much time and money figuring out what individual nutrients do that we don't pay attention to the type of food we eat anymore
sofal 16y ago
Okay I got up to 175 lbs for squats and then I started getting a severe, stabbing pain in my knee when I did them. Seems to me that squats are not so good for my knees. Leg press does not give me this problem. Additionally, I've been doing deadlifts, and just this weekend I pulled a muscle in my back doing 245 lbs (and no, I was not rounding my back). As you can tell, I am becoming hugely dissatisfied with these so-called "core" exercises. I haven't seen much improvement from them at all, and I've only ever gotten injuries from them.
- eleusive 16y ago
  (Disclaimer, I'm not an expert, but I can squat well over 1.5x my weight for several reps) For squats, you should make sure to go parallel and "sit back" at the bottom of the movement, while pushing your knees out to the sides as you go down. This takes the stress of the weight off of your knees and onto your posterior chain. Otherwise you'll get hurt knees just as you described. Not sure what could cause that deadlift problem, other than maybe trying to lift with your back before the bar clears your knees (which until that point your legs should be doing most of the lifting). FWIW, it took me a long time to really get comfortable with my technique in the heavy compound exercises, but I've seen remarkable gains from them once I learned proper technique. If you're really serious about doing the core exercises with proper technique, I strongly recommend picking up a copy of Mark Rippetoe's "Starting Strength" book. It goes into great detail the correct technique and mechanics behind the exercises.
XFrequentist 16y ago
"Throw us in ice-cold water every day and we’ll sprout subcutaneous fat for insulation" What? Everything I know about physiology and the effects of cold exposure make me believe that this is the opposite of the truth.
sabat 16y ago
maintaining cardiovascular fitness doesn’t really take much more than breathing uncomfortably hard for about 20 minutes, three times a week While that will help, I would not call someone who exercises at that level "fit" or "in shape". I'd call him something less than out of shape. There are a lot of weight-lifting people who have convinced themselves that weights are the key, and that aerobic exercise is an afterthought. Here's the funny thing, though: how many fat weight-lifters have you met in your life? I've known plenty. How many fat runners have you ever met?
anukulrm 16y ago
If you want to lift free weights, a great place to start is Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe.
mixmastamyk 16y ago
Wow, a ten-page article that says almost nothing, despite the shocking title. I think anyone serious about fitness knows that free weights and sports are the most effective and fun ways to get there. Also haven't heard it mentioned yet so I'll share some other good ideas for the geeks. One is to move about a mile or two from work ... arrive every morning refreshed instead of cursing traffic. Two, take up salsa dancing and chat up the hot latinas. Three, get a cheap bike and ride the local hills. Catching a beautiful sunset with a view is a fantastic reward. Also helps me catch up with my podcasts.
puredemo 16y ago
TL;DR: Stronglifts.
chicagobob 16y ago
I've been wondering about getting fit for years, then suddenly one day out of the blue, my doctor told me the secret: "Eat Less & Work Out More" smashes forehead, why has everyone been keep this a secret for so long :)
- eru 16y ago
  You can also eat more. I added a few kg since I started weight lifting.
Groxx 16y ago
I dunno. I was always told free-weights are better than isolation (because you'll exercise complementary muscles), don't train the same thing until the second day after, and you won't get far if you don't push yourself. For a massively-super-summary: that's all they said, in 6 pages. The rest of it is a lengthy exposition about how his motivating force was someone who told him how pathetic he was, made him realize it instead of just hear it, and then made him do the above.
c0nsilience 16y ago
The author's article is just another opinion, and something that happened to work for him. I've found that mixing things up works for me, and not because it "shocks" or "confuses" the body, but because the biggest obstacle - like he mentions in the early parts of the article - is boredom. However, he's a little too dogmatic in his approach. Finally, I have a huge problem with the article being entitled "Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie" when he fails to define "fitness." He keeps talking about seeing changes in the body--is that what fitness is? Becoming more muscular and lean? What about cardiovascular endurance? Or is it both? He spends too much time bashing the health & fitness industry and not enough time defining what good health is.
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nickg 16y ago
My thoughts on "diet" vs. "exercise": they're two pieces of the same puzzle, and I prefer to manage the "exercise" side of the equation more proactively. Reason is because eating in (esp. in America) today is HARD. There's a lot of crap out there, portion sizes are whack, fat, sodium and empty carbs are everywhere. And you must eat multiple times every day, so that means you make many DECISIONS about eating every single day (hundreds?). Fighting against the grain (pun intended) of what food is readily available and easily accessible is an uphill battle, filled with guilty, uncertain, and constrained decision making. Don't get me wrong, I still try to eat healthy (and I'm lucky to live in San Francisco where there are more healthful options). But, the nice thing about exercise is that you only have to make ONE DECISION every day. And that is to do it. Once it's done, it's done. And it's not too hard to find a fitness activity you really enjoy doing, plus the endorphin rush you get from a good workout is amazing. When you build exercise into your lifestyle as a healthy habit, it's not even a decision anymore, it's automatic. I'd much rather live a healthy lifestyle with a daily (or almost daily) fitness routine than to painstakingly count calories or awkwardly ask the waiter to 'hold the bun, please, and remove the excess butters, sugars, fats, and salts..' every time I go out to eat. That just makes it awkward for you and everybody else.

592 points by light3 16y ago

ez77 16y ago

Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie If you just learn this 'fact', then some of the facts you know about fitness will of necessity be true, consistency willing.

barista 16y ago

That's right because us hackers really care about fitness

nopassrecover 16y ago
Is this sarcasm that hackers don't like being healthy or a kind of pun about AI algorithms?
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  Some hackers still need to learn to put two and two together. That is to say, fitness + good eating = many years of happy hacking
- tomjen3 16y ago
  Its not necessarily that they have a problem being healthy, all things considered I would prefer that too. The problem is that it takes time and is boring. I don't care if it means I live a few years longer since I will be too old and infirm to be able to hack.
  - nopassrecover 16y ago
    The aging and infirmity will come a lot quicker if you don't look out for your health. Being healthy might mean you live say 30 years longer, but that isn't just 30 more years of being infirm, it's say 20 more years of good hack-healthy years and 10 more infirm. Besides, the energy benefits right now and the impact that has on how much you can hack is far more easily noticed than the potential lifespan differences.
anonymoushn 16y ago
I hope so.
radu_floricica 16y ago
As it happens it's a pretty popular subject. Hacker Diet (http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/ http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/) is a book written by Autodesk's Founder, there's a pretty active corner at Reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/fitness http://www.reddit.com/r/fitness), and this is definitely not the first post on the subject I've seen on HN.
- whakojacko 16y ago
  ...and if you read /r/fitness with any remote regularity then most of this article isn't very surprising at all.
  - piguy314 16y ago
    SS+Squatz+Oatz bro That's what you'd say at least if /r/fitness is anything like /fit/ on 4chan.
momotomo 16y ago
I've never met a successful person who was an unmotivated lardass. Probably close to 2/3rds of the people who I've worked with that are in the top of their fields are crazy about cycling, marital arts, running, etc. It just takes too much energy to go hard enough to achieve big things, I wouldn't even consider it practical if you don't have some degree of physical fitness.
- jamii 16y ago
  I guess marital arts do burn a lot of energy.
  - thenomad 16y ago
    Some of the best cardio you can get. Stuff like Muay Thai and Karate's pretty good too.
Dylanlacey 16y ago
Because I can't downvote you, I'll comment. We do. A lot. Because we're not sitting in our parent's basements eating pizza and chugging mountain dew, we're not hacking the gibson and we're not sweaty, unbathed, pimply losers. We're motivated, we're not planning to die anytime soon, we're concerned with being able to do things, we're social, we're active and we're sick of the stereotypes. I'm going to make a massive assumption that your sarcasm was intended to hide the fact that you yourself are ashamed of your fitness. You can't hide behind your profession, your job or your peers. You are the reason you are unfit, unhealthy, eat badly and don't exercise. There truly is no-one else to blame. But since you're here I assume you have a desire to change the world somehow, so I truly hope you're able to get past any shame and fear you may feel and do something about your problem. If a feeling of inadequacy is not the problem, they you need to socialize more with hackers... Being a slob in the basement went out the window with the Apple Lisa and Gen X having hair.
- tomjen3 16y ago
  Looking at your comment, I can't understand why it got upvoted since you are just replacing one set of stereotypes with another, which may fit better with what society wants you to but is still a stereotype. Now if you want that thats perfectly alright, but I at least only want to spend as little time as possible caring about my body and as little time as possible with normal people since both things are utterly boring.
  - mattgreenrocks 16y ago
    > Now if you want that thats perfectly alright, but I at least only want to spend as little time as possible caring about my body and as little time as possible with normal people since both things are utterly boring. You do have a point. Conformity is not the way. But, at the same time, I'm sad you feel those things are boring. Allow me to explain. I used to be in your shoes, at least in the fitness aspect. I was a bit of a curmudgeon who'd figured life out at age 24 and decided that I'd be happy programming for, well, ever. That worked well until about age 27, when it started to wear thin. Deadlines, feature creep, a billion new technologies...who cares? It was losing its luster quickly. When I turned 28, I came down with carpal tunnel-like symptoms stemming from an overuse injury. I had to leave my job to give my body time to heal. I learned the hard way that I had to respect my body, and respect myself more. The time I've put in on fitness has enhanced the rest of my life a disproportionate amount. I'm much smarter about what I eat, and I feel better, and I sleep so much better now. Because the sleep is higher quality, I don't need as much of it. I awaken ready to engage the day, rather than slinking through it. The secret of this is that the body was never meant to be disconnected from the mind. The two are engaged in an continual feedback loop whereby one is reinforcing the actions of the others with beliefs/chemicals. You just need to gently prod the two into better habits in order to feel better. As for people, well, that's what life's all about.

baddox 16y ago

These links to auto-printing pages are unacceptable. Link me to the normal display article in these cases. I'll take it from there.

6ren 16y ago
You're concerned, but don't add the link: http://www.mensjournal.com/everything-you-know-about-fitness-is-a-lie http://www.mensjournal.com/everything-you-know-about-fitness... As for me, I prefer the version on one page, with no ads. Clicking "cancel" is not too high a price to pay (for me).
socillion 16y ago
I'm not sure about other browsers, but I'd like to point out that Firefox with Noscript is very effective at preventing the print popups.
vaksel 16y ago
and if he linked it normally, chances are someone(maybe even you) would post, bitching that they don't want to read 10 pages of an article and to just link to the print page the next time.
- baddox 16y ago
  That's why I requested that only in these cases where the print link autoprints should the normal link be used.
Splines 16y ago
Browsers should just not have auto-printing. How much time is saved by not having to press CTRL+P? Likewise, how much time is wasted because of unintentional print dialogs (like this one) and how much time is wasted in developing and maintaining such a feature? I say cut it, nobody is going to miss it.
- pjscott 16y ago
  Printing from browsers in general is a mess. Is there a printable version of the page? Is there a CSS stylesheet that changes the appearance for print? Do you use Ctrl-P, or is there some little "click here to print" button you have to find on the page to not have everything be messed up? I didn't realize how complicated this was until I tried to explain it to my grandparents.

momotomo 16y ago

I get the logic and intent behind these kind of articles but at the same time they infuriate me, because this is the kind of crap that people read and use as yet-another-reason as to why they don't try to get fit. Sure, machines aren't perfect, and they railroad your form, but it's better than nothing. I train on machines, _and_ with free weight, _and_ doing bodyweight / crossfit stuff. They all have their place. There's no way I'd try to pull the rep max on a free barbell that I would on a smith machine, but it says nothing about how effective one or the other is. It's like the whole internet self defense huff. A billion words written on the technicalities of all the different martial arts but most fights are won by punching the other guy repeatedly hard enough to stop him hitting you. Sure it's not perfect, but its taking action and it gets results.

sliverstorm 16y ago
There's no way I'd try to pull the rep max on a free barbell that I would on a smith machine Why not? So long as you're not being stupid, a spotter and/or the safeties built into the cage/rack or bench should do fine.
- Hyphen-ated 16y ago
  You'd be almost guaranteed to fail the lift. Smith machines let you use higher weight because you don't have to spend energy stabilizing the barbell. With safety bars failing isn't a huge deal, it's just pointless.
  - billswift 16y ago
    As the original article pointed out, the effect of strengthening the stabilizing muscles is WHY free weights are superior for fitness.
  - sliverstorm 16y ago
    Oh, he's talking about raw numbers. I guess in retrospect, that's obvious, but when I replied I thought he was saying he doesn't push himself as hard with free weights.

chipsy 16y ago

The article's conclusion: Lift big with classic lifts. Gain strength. What I actually do: Take walks and do isometrics on convenient bars, poles, etc. Max power, 5-10 second holds, multiple angles. The better I am about those rules, the more progress I make. More effective than any gym I've ever been in.

fingerprinter 16y ago
I understand what you are saying...isometrics are awesome...I actually do them almost everyday and I swear by them. I also swear by dynamic tension flexing, which brings great results. But don't confuse those results with the results from classic big lifts. Like I said, I do isometrics all the time, but squats, deadlifts, benchpress and pullups are going to develop your musculature in ways isometrics never could. What I'm doing now is a class lift style of back squats, deadlifts and benchpress 5x5 program for strength. Progress 5 pounds each session (make sure you start very low so you can build up) and end the each session with a circuit of your choosing x 3 (I normally do something like BW to failure of pullups, pushups, dips, plank, bridge/mule kick, ...then break and do it all again). Total workout including warmup takes 45 minutes max (I warm up for about 20 minutes). This will build tons of muscle and you will gain strength very quickly. Though, make sure you eat right (Paleo) and cut out the crappy foods like grains/glutens/sugars and you will see fantastic results (if you still eat grains and the like, you'll gain weight, but you likely won't lose any fat .... some people call this "shitty weight" akin to drinking 2 gallons of milk a day).
- freshfey 16y ago
  +1 for 5x5. I'm currently on the Texas Method and I'm love the volume on the squats and the deadlifts. I eat pre and post workout carbs though, to make sure I got enough energy (bulking phase right now). The fat you gain is easy to lose afterwards!

emeltzer 16y ago

Prisoners are among the most fit people in the world, despite an absence of good machines, good diet, coaches, and instructional material. If you want to be fit, start exercising--a nice way to get started is to truly understand that any kind of exercise is very much better than doing nothing.

ryanfitz 16y ago
I have read on various weight lifting forums that at least some prisoners smuggle in steroids, protein powders/bars and also steal extra food when they can. This would certainly lead them to getting into great shape if all they do is workout and get the needed supplements. Also, I don't know about you, but I don't personally know anyone in jail, so other than perception that guys in jail are huge, I'm not really sure its true.
- freshfey 16y ago
  Good read here: Training Behind Bars Pt. 1: http://goo.gl/epno3 http://goo.gl/epno3 Training Behind Bars Pt. 2: http://goo.gl/ppvHU http://goo.gl/ppvHU Easily two of the best articles on T-Nation.
mkramlich 16y ago
They also have incredible incentive to get in shape, and a ton of free time to kill, and tend to have problems with aggression. That adds up. And your own personal muscle mass and melee fighting capability is pretty much the only weapon the prison allows you to have.
ohyes 16y ago
I agree with you if we area talking about Hollywood movie prisoners. If you truly want to get fit, commit a felony.
Groxx 16y ago
Their diets are better than what my schools (any of them) served for lunch. Seriously. If that's all people ate, our prison population would be half what it is now, it'd simply kill at least half of them off within a few years.

ryanfitz 16y ago

When it comes to lifting the only real "fact" is that what works best varies from person to person. People with great genetics can do heavy volume lifting 5 or 6 days a week and make amazing gains. Meanwhile, others will struggle to make any progress even with a low volume 2 day a week routine because their body doesn't recover well. Just go out there, experiment and see what works for you.

piguy314 16y ago
Starting strength works for everybody irrespective of genetics
eru 16y ago
Yes. But just include the workout from Starting Strength (or similar) in your experiments. It should work for nearly all beginners.

Herring 16y ago

I recently started on "starting strength" & I'm seeing that exact same linear progression. It's really awesome.

peteriliev 16y ago

Wow, that's interesting :)

toadi 16y ago

I have lifted weights for 15 years. But now I ditched the gym all together. Got bored with neon lights, the smell of sweat and watching fat people run on a treadmill ;) Now I only sport outdoors and for muscle strength I use kettle-bells: http://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Strength-Secret-Soviet-Supermen/dp/0938045695/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1299227111&sr=8-3 http://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Strength-Secret-Soviet-Supe... Just read http://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Strength-Secret-Soviet-Supermen/dp/0938045695/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1299227111&sr=8-3 http://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Strength-Secret-Soviet-Supe... and you know enough. No expensive equipment needed and it takes only 3 times 30 to 40 minutes a week to gain considerable strength and cardio!

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tintin 16y ago

Without the printer pop: http://www.mensjournal.com/everything-you-know-about-fitness-is-a-lie/ http://www.mensjournal.com/everything-you-know-about-fitness...

macco 16y ago

My two cents on fitness: 1. Do something you like. This way you stick to it. 2. Don't overthink it, if you are just doing fitness for your health. There is not such thing like a perfect fat burning workout, etc. 3. My ideas don't count if you are an athlete who wants to improve on performance. No go out and do something, dont read this crappy article

georgieporgie 16y ago

I have one bit of specialized weight training advice. We all spend entirely too much time in front of our computers, typically hunched or slouched back, deep in thought. Ten years of doing this professionally led to shoulder/neck problems, culminating in a pinched nerve between my C6 and C7 vertebrae. It improved with physical therapy, but was never truly fixed, and has bothered me off and on for two years now, despite my adherence to the therapist's rubber band and stretching routine. I heard through a relative about "Upper Cross Syndrome". Whether that's specifically what I have or not, I don't know, but the symptoms match quite well. Read about it, and you'll probably see that it perfectly describes so many tech people: http://www.active.com/fitness/Articles/Avoid_upper_cross_syndrome_and_maintain_rotator_cuff_stability.htm http://www.active.com/fitness/Articles/Avoid_upper_cross_syn... Exercise 6, "External rotation top to bottom" has literally changed my life, and it did so within the first week. For the first time in as long as I can remember, I maintain proper posture at the keyboard (and while walking around). I still get nerve issues if I spend too many days in a row at the computer, but I can't describe to you how much better I feel now than I did after physical therapy!

jobu 16y ago
Thanks for the link. I recently injured my neck (c5-c6 and c6-c7), and the physical therapist has suggested a few exercises, but was unable to explain the purpose or benefit of them.
- DTrejo 16y ago
  There's also a graphic further down in the article about how to prevent various injuries (search 'kevin brown'): http://www.mensjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/picture-81.jpg http://www.mensjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/picture-81.jpg
jquery 16y ago
Get a stand up desk, or failing that create a makeshift one with cardboard boxes. I started doing that 9 months ago. Now all my back problems are gone. 10% of my company,or roughly 20 people, have since happily switched.

mkramlich 16y ago

I sometimes wish we could delete the entire fitness industry from the world and replace it with a few lines of text, something like this: eat right, exercise, get adequate sleep, reduce stress, get variety, use natural motions, breathe deep, get yourself winded intentionally from time to time, when in doubt walk, etc. The vast majority of people probably never need to go near a fancy weight machine or even lift artificial weights of any kind. Just carrying out normal actions in the Earth's gravitational field, putting your body through all the natural ranges of motion it's capable of doing, is actually pretty darn adequate, and can build muscle and improve figure and physical capabilities. I believe most of the industry is not much more honest than a shyster trying to sell snake oil.

someperson 16y ago
Forgive my ignorance but how exactly does being winded help somebody become fit. By getting yourself winded do you mean being punched in the stomach hard enough to lose your breath for a moment, or something else?
- mkramlich 16y ago
  ie. go running. do jumping jacks. get your heart and lung going. push yourself beyond what your cardio system needs to do under normal/static conditions.
- yogipatel 16y ago
  Something else — the feeling you get after some kind of strenuous activity that raises your heart/breathing rate. Running, for example. What you're referring to is getting the wind knocked out of you.
  - dagw 16y ago
    For what it's worth I've never heard what you describe called "winded". To me winded means getting the wind knocked out of you. I wonder if it is a regional thing.

msy 16y ago

Given he calls Crossfit sadistic it's ironic he's basically describing it. Free weights, core strength, a focus on overall fitness and all aspects thereof over abstract weight numbers. It's not complicated and plenty of people know it. Hyperbolic headlines are intensely irritating.

zzygan 16y ago
So true. I've only fairly recently gotten into crossfit, and although it is very hard, and very intense, everything he talks about the article is focused on, comes up in various crossfit workouts, as well as a hell of a lot more stuff that makes you so much more versitile than just strength. The thing i hate about crossfit is the "coach" thing, but that must be something I just dont get.
freshfey 16y ago
Not exactly. In Crossfit times and reps matter more than form. Just take a look at some gyms. The exercises and the philosophy behind is awesome, but the practical appliance is far from great.
- jokull 16y ago
  There's an emphasis on improving scores and people get carried away for sure. But in the two boxes I've trained at there's a culture for good form and working on technique. "Honesty in motion, honesty in counting". I believe it's a CrossFit thing.
  - freshfey 16y ago
    There are definitely boxes who focus on good form, which is great (and should be the norm), but I think due to the fact that the Level 1 cert is so easy to get, the quality suffers in some gyms.
  - jacques_chester 16y ago
    > I believe it's a CrossFit thing. Based on this claim I assume also that Crossfit invented the barbell, the bumper plate and gravity. The sudden outburst of anecdotes about how your Crossfit gym rooly trooly emphasises form seems to have come after years of sustained criticism by strength coaches and Olympic weightlifting coaches. It's as simple as this: nobody -- not me, not you, not your coach, not the pros -- nobody can pump out high rep Oly movements without steady and ultimately dangerous degradation in form. The force plate studies, the EEG studies, the eyeballing of experienced coaches demonstrate over and over and over that it is a flat out stupid idea to do snatches or cleans for reps. And yet in Crossfit gyms everywhere, this idea of smashing out 20 clean & jerks still keeps getting circulated. You cannot do this and learn to do the movements precisely enough. You will only train yourselves to do it messily. Under heavy weights you will fuck up and injure yourself. Given that I love Oly lifting, I don't want people getting injured and then blaming the lifts, when they should be blaming a faulty training technique.

phil 16y ago

It's funny because this kind of article always ends up recommending a simple, classic free weight program. Then you look at the gyms they refer to, and they've got people doing stuff like this: http://www.mtnathlete.com/page.php?page_ID=2 http://www.mtnathlete.com/page.php?page_ID=2

dpritchett 16y ago
GPP [1] is the sort of thing people add to their programs when they're already doing basic weight routines all the time and they want to see even more progress. You don't have to start dragging rocks on day 1. [1] http://www.elitefts.com/documents/gpp.htm http://www.elitefts.com/documents/gpp.htm

jasonkester 16y ago

If you really want to get fit, there's one easy thing you can do that actually works: Take up a sport that gets you fit as a side effect. I have two obsessions in life: Rock Climbing and Surfing. I'm pretty good at the first, and borderline hopeless at the other, but I'm committed to the point where I've arranged my life so that I can travel for months at a time to pursue one or the other each year. When I'm working a contract to save up for the next trip, I'll find myself slowly fattening up on fish tacos and 12 hour days coding in a felt cube with only the occasional after work or weekend fix of rock or salt water. After a few months I'm decidedly soft, and quite a bit heavier. But put me on the beach in Thailand for 5 months and holy crap, what a difference. It's like Fat Camp out there. There's so much fun climbing to be had right on the beach. Overhanging routes that work you into the sort of shape that lets you literally hand-over-hand your way out a horizontal roof by your fingertips as your feet dangle out in space. Without anybody forcing you, you spend your entire day working yourself silly, then you come back and eat rice. You can imagine what that does for your physique. It's like a convention of Men's Health cover models out there. I come back to the world, and watch people going to the gym and clearly hating every minute of it. I can't understand why they would do that to themselves, when there's a climbing gym just a few miles away.

ilovecomputers 16y ago
Also, don't eat boxed foods or foods that went through multiple stages of processing. In Defense of Food by Michael Pollan spells it out very well, but I'll just give you my simple definition: Eating healthy is as close to eating dirt without actually eating dirt. Produce, grain, cheese, 1/2 pound to a pound of meat a week[1], and whatever else Marion Nestle recommends[1.5]. Just imagine what primitive man would eat. He would spend most of his days eating what grew from the ground and when they finally hunted down meat, they would eat their catch as a group[2]. That doesn't mean you have to do exactly that, but try to keep your eating habits in sync with what it was originally adapted to consume not what hyper stimulates made you believe it wanted to consume[3]. Now don't go about forcing yourself to eat stuff you don't enjoy. In the same manner jasonkester engages in something he enjoys that have the "side effect" of being healthy (I still think these activities are something we were adapted to engage in the first place), find foods you find delicious but also happen to be something that isn't processed. I can assure you that there is plenty of "healthy" or "natural" foods out there that you would enjoy[4]. [1]http://www.ted.com/talks/mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_what_we_eat.html http://www.ted.com/talks/mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_w... [1.5]http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=eating-made-simple http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=eating-made... [2]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3723678050599653349# http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3723678050599653349# [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzN-uIVkfjg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzN-uIVkfjg [4]http://smittenkitchen.com/ http://smittenkitchen.com/

mmaunder 16y ago

This is a one sided view of fitness. e.g. there is zero focus on cardio. Would be interesting to see one of these guys do a light 5 mile run. Look into real world training: running, hard hiking with a pack, mountain biking, swimming/surfing. These types of exercise have been the most rewarding for me in terms of skeletal, muscle and cardio fitness. The only thing I agree with in the article is that cardio machines in the gym are a waste of time.

jrockway 16y ago
The only thing I agree with in the article is that cardio machines in the gym are a waste of time. Not sure this is really true or that it matters. A 5 mile run on the treadmill at an x minute pace is the same as a 5 mile run outside at an x minute pace. Advantages of the treadmill include being able to keep a given pace without making any particular mental effort. Advantages of being outside is that it's not boring.
- gaius 16y ago
  Hmm, well it's more subtle than that. Running on a "real" surface, that is constantly changing gradient and direction, works a lot of ancillary muscles for stability and balance that you don't get on a treadmill. The cardio workout might be the same. But if you trained for a Marathon only on a treadmill, you'd be in for a bit of a surprise when you tried a real one. Without the core strength you'd lose your form, your running would be less efficient, you'd get exhausted much more quickly.
  - mikepurvis 16y ago
    Also air resistance, which is zero when you're stationary.
  - nollidge 16y ago
    The other thing I've noticed is that when running on a treadmill, it may seem like your legs are making roughly the same motion as real running, but you're not pushing yourself forward, just upward. Your legs definitely don't have to work as hard pushing your body around.

gexla 16y ago

I think a lot of the comments here are missing the point of this article. Free weights are vital for muscle strength, mass and edurance. That doesn't mean free weights take the place of your other activities such as skiing or mountain climbing. That doesn't mean that you cut out cardio, that's something else entirely, even though some people work on cardio in the gym along with strength training. Free weights are also great for building the entire structure of your body. There is nothing which can stress the major muscles of the legs, bones and supporting muscle groups like throwing a huge weight on your shoulders and squatting that weight multiple times. Swimming, isometrics and all that other stuff won't do it. Machines also don't do this because you don't have weight to stabilize in both directions. The power move of the squat is to push upwards with your legs but you still have to lower that huge weight in an orderly down movement to start the exercise.

light3 16y ago
Further, you should eat well and wait for your muscles to recover, the optimal time to retrain is during 'overcompensation', 40-60 hours for endurance and 48-72 hours for power, strength and mass. As well, you should exercise 'weak muscles' to avoid injury, for people sitting in front of computers a lot it really helps to exercise the back muscles.
- rfergie 16y ago
  Where does the 40-60 hours for endurance come from? I'm a former endurance athlete and used to train twice a day
  - light3 16y ago
    You're probably right, I was quoting from the overcompensation graph, the other chart actually says 8 sessions/week for endurance.
rue 16y ago
Actually it kinda reads exactly like cutting out cardio for the most part, though admittedly I only skimmed through it. Perhaps it isn't communicating its point very well? Personally I heavily favour cardiovascular fitness over muscular fitness, and would choose the former in a heartbeat (ahaha) if I had to pick one. Currently I cycle and do astanga, though I plan on adding some low-rep strength training to the mix too.

Bvalmont 16y ago

Or: just go for the skinny pale look. Really works thanks to those twilight and social network movies.

jules 16y ago

[citation needed] Here's another anecdote: No lifting weights, only running & cycling and lately swimming. Pretty much the opposite of what the article is arguing. Since I started this I'm doing I'm doing fairly well, six pack included. I went to the gym once, and saw bulked up guys getting 5 pull ups. So I tried that and could easily do 30. Lifting weights may make you look like a bodybuilder, but are you really fit?

mzl 16y ago
You do realize that the bulked up guys probably weigh a lot more than you do so the number of achieved pull-ups is not an interesting measure? The really bulked-up ones most likely train for muscle mass, not for any useful activity.
- jules 16y ago
  Sure, they do weigh a lot more than I do. Isn't that part of the fair comparison? You don't give a cyclist or runner a backpack with weights in it because it's "unfair" that he weighs less than the other cyclist/runner. These guys were probably training pull ups every week at least, so it's on their home territory. Yet their training is less effective than running & cycling. For the vast majority of activities, performance relative to body weight is the interesting measure, not absolute weight lifted. I'm just saying that if lifting weights is so much better than other forms of training, why weren't they able to do pull ups much better? My second point is that yes, this is an anecdote. So is the article. Don't take either as a scientific inquiry.
  - scott_s 16y ago
    You also arbitrarily decided that number of pull-ups was going to be your metric for determining who was more fit.
  - tensor 16y ago
    And in a rock lifting competition they would win easily. I don't see your point. You pick an arbitrary metric that you happen to be good at and declare victory. As it stands, all you've done is point out that there are different tasks and depending on your target task the ideal body composition and training routine differs. If you want to be good at pullups you should probably let all your leg muscles atrophy and just build lats and biceps.

neutronicus 16y ago

As someone who just tried to start this kind of thing (heavy squat/deadlift every couple of days) and hurt my lower back pretty good, I just don't know about this advice.

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NZ_Matt 16y ago
That is why all the training programs tell you to start out lifting light (even just the bar by itself) and gradually add weight over time as your technique improves. If you use common sense and follow the guides you won't get hurt.
astrogirl 16y ago
That's because your form stinks. Squats and deads don't hurt you unless you do them incorrectly.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  Both are too easy to hurt yourself. This is why, for example, why deadlifts are generally not recommended for professional athletes. For example, notice Kobe doesn't do deadlifts: http://www.nbaplayerworkouts.com/kobe-bryant http://www.nbaplayerworkouts.com/kobe-bryant The delta in benefit is not worth a back injury.
  - rdouble 16y ago
    That article says Kobe does power cleans, which are riskier than deadlifts for back injury.
    - kenjackson 16y ago
      I tend to find them a lot safer. The weight used is a lot less and is much more forgiving of improper back posture. With that said, for beginners, I do think that the Power Clean is more dangerous. More places to make a mistake. But for an ahlete with strength training background, deadlift is more dangerous, I think largely due to the weight. I've seen too many people with what looked like perfect form hurt their back.

withoutfriction 16y ago

As a bible for starting fitness training, might I add that Starting Strength [1], by Mark Rippetoe, is a must read. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287803 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287803

drstrangevibes 16y ago

great article , the only question I have is how to accurately measure when your muscles reach super compensation peak?

eru 16y ago
For starters: You don't. Just do your strength training three times a week, more or less every two days. Works.

dualogy 16y ago

I swear by bodyweight-only resistance / circular strength training. Currently doing TacFit -- despite their ridiculous hard-sell marketing which is uselessly and pointlessly "spec ops" and warrior-themed (I won't link as I'm not affiliated other than a legit happy user). But there are more body-weight approaches than that one. Google circular strength training / CST and much cheaper than buying the TacFit videos would be getting a used paperback copy of "You are your own gym". It's body-weight only, unlike gyms no machines, unlike crossfit no other weights. BENEFIT: keep travelling without buying equipment you don't want to carry in your luggage. Don't maintain x gym memberships around the world. It burns fat (don't really need that too much yet) faster and more efficiently in less time than hours doing aerobic running / swimming / cycling would. Aerobic exercises may be good for heart and lungs, but for calory burning they're laughable. BENEFIT: muscle building and calory burning in one workout. (Of course, if you wanna look like The Hulk you'll need to have weights at least kettlebell dumbell or indian clubs, daily protein counting and all the bodybuilding stuff. BUT you will look incredibly impressive with just bodyweight / Tacfit after only 20-30 days of good form, and it only gets better from there -- you even retain a good amount of the goodness after pausing from it up to 2 months afterwards, which a longer hospital attendance may force upon you). No rep-counting, time-under-tension matters. This matches your bodily clockworks. Your muscles don't count reps either. Time under tension, whether you only get 2 reps under perfect form (important) or 20. BENEFIT: no counting, just stopwatch. There are no off-days, you cycle through 4 consecutive days (no intensity day 1: 20 mins, low intensity day 2: 20 mins, moderate intensity day 3: 40 mins, high intensity day 4: 40 mins) all the time. After 4x7 days, it is time to level up, adding sophistication, more challenging movements etc. to keep the body from adapting. TacFit in my view is a pretty unique mix of exercises and movements recombining elements of martial arts, yoga, classical bodyweight exercises and more, that help you on joint mobility, flexibility, core strength, muscle building, posterior improvement and both injury prevention and proofing -- all in a pre-defined package that will last you 9 months in a row without having to customize, modify or tweak the program. Afterwards, add weights, take 5 days off and start from scratch, mix or match, etc. BENEFIT: minimum time investment gets you results in all areas that matter, including but not limited to mere appearance and looks. Boy I sound like a marketer but this is really hacker-friendly, entrepreneur-friendly, productive-but-time-pressed-busy-person friendly. It revolves around so much research and experimentation done by the coaches who composed this after decades of experience. They're on Facebook, real people giving sensible advice to everyone and anyone dropping by asking questions. They get 70-80 year old people incredibly fit that couldn't survive neither a gym nor a crossfit session. (But rest assured their exercises are not granny material, they will kick your butt no matter your stage of physical development.) I'm seriously impressed with their stuff. You can browse my past comments here over the last 3 years, I'm not usually writing marketing copy for commercial digital goods around here at all. So this is really simply "everything I need to know about fitness" and I really do think it's the most hacker-suitable option out there.

stcredzero 16y ago

First, I realized that we all live in a kind of Fitness Fog, a miasma of lies and misinformation that we mistake for common sense, and that makes most of our gym time a complete waste. The big news here, is that there are many kinds of such mental fog. You can read this article and learn how to get fit more effectively, but there is an even deeper lesson here.

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brown9-2 16y ago
Did you miss the part of the article where the author is in his forties and suffering through knee and back problems attained in adolescence? I'm not sure how the joke you relay here is suppose to be anything like an argument, data, or reasoning.
jnorthrop 16y ago
I'll start off by stating that I disagree with you whole-heartily about the benefits (or dangers) of lifting heavy weights -- that is when done correctly and with a full range-of-motion. I think your 3 point philosophy for life-long health is dead-on but I think the second point "move your body through space, sometimes with volume, sometimes with intensity" is too abstract and certainly open to interpretation. Does the hour of pickup soccer I played last night count? (A pretty intense hour of sprinting) To me, yes. To others maybe walking the dog with a brief jog to the door from the end of the driveway is as intense as it gets. I would argue that "walking the dog" doesn't cut it if that is your "sometimes with intensity" definition. Every person needs to squat and deadlift heavy things from time to time. And that does not need to happen in a gym -- a good sized rock suffices. Doing so will help with mobility, bone density, strength and balance. And if those movements cause injury then they need to fix the disfuctions that aren't allowing proper movement. Not addressing those issues will lead to hip, should and back problems down the line whether they lift or not.

brown9-2 16y ago

Mainstream men’s fitness magazines have no larger mission than profitable advertising sales, which means endless pitches for useless (if not outright dangerous) dietary supplements and articles on “Seven Steps to Great Abs,” always omitting the all-important Step Eight: In order to make your six-pack even remotely visible to the naked eye, reduce your total body fat to an inhuman 10 percent. This describes just about every issue of "Mens Health" magazine, by the way.

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xiaoma 16y ago

The author clearly equates fitness with strength, and some of his claims are way off. Here's one: "...maintaining cardiovascular fitness doesn’t really take much more than breathing uncomfortably hard for about 20 minutes, three times a week" As a former competitive runner, I've read hundreds of studies and abstracts about improving various cardio-vasuclar metrics. 20 minutes, three times a week is barely enough to generate even modest VO2 max improvements. Ideally it takes 40-60 minutes, five times a week, plus an extra long session of over 90 minutes. This is about the minimum training you'll see in a 5k runner or 1000m swimmer. Top 10k runners generally require 70-90 minutes a day, even when doing interval work and have long runs of over two hours. The results of this sort of training are measurable. LT, VO2max, resting HR and a variety of other metrics show a dose dependent response. Many studies[1] have also demonstrated that even recreational distance training results in a wide variety of benefits that weight training does not, even including increased rates of neurogenesis and longer telemeres than average for one's age. Weight training clearly is superior for increasing muscle and bone mass, but it isn't a magical silver bullet that improves everything. [1] I've cited all of these on hn before, most don't have paywalls and they should be googleable.

scotty79 16y ago
You don't feel fit if you can run 5k but you struggle to move a fridge or feel strain while lifting up you kid or your woman.
- xiaoma 16y ago
  Speak for yourself. I'm a bit more evolved than that sort of attitude.
  - scotty79 16y ago
    I think feeling fit is about effortlessly dealing with physical things you usually have to deal with in your life. "My car broke. No problem. I'll just run 5 miles to work." situation does not occur very often.

pge 16y ago

would you take coding advice from someone that couldn't write "hello world" in C? Then don't take fitness advice from someone that, by his own admission, could only squat 40 lbs before he wrote the article...

jimmyk 16y ago
For your analogy, he couldn't write "hello world" in C before writing the article. Before finishing the article, he was able to write software better than the vast majority of developers. While writing the article, he received training and advice from the person who trained the best developers. I'd sure pay attention.
- pge 16y ago
  I have to disagree - your assessment would suggest that at the end he was more fit than the vast majority of people that try to be fit, and that his teacher was the best in the world. My point was simply that he did not have a frame of reference to evaluate the quality of the fitness program he took on relative to other programs with competent instructors (since his lack of fitness demonstrated that he had never had any competent instruction). To keep the analogy from the original post, do you trust a first year CS student to tell you the best way to learn coding? That student finally had a competent teacher and went from zero to writing a lisp compiler in C. What he doesnt realize is so did every other first year college CS student, and they may have had an entirely different curriculum and experience. And they are all at the beginning of a journey, not the end. If the article were written by a pro athlete, for example, that had experimented with lots of different fitness regimes over that course of a life in which he was clearly successful in being fit, I would take it a lot more seriously, just as I would be more interested in hearing about the best methods of learning to write commercial applications from long-time practitioners that had trained many teams over the years in production environments.
  - joebadmo 16y ago
    I think you have to consider the intended audience, though. Seemed to me he was addressing people who had idly dabbled in working out, but quit because they weren't seeing results or were intimidated, and people who chase fad exercises and spend ineffective time in modern gyms. So, in the analogy, I guess it would be for people who have tried to learn to code but couldn't get past basic syntax , and coders who are always chasing the latest language/platform but never really learned the fundamentals...? The analogy might be starting to fail at this point.

jcampbell1 16y ago

not hacker news.

indrekj 16y ago

I started going to gym 3 years ago. My weight was 55kg (122lbs) and height was 182cm (~6ft). Very underweight. I knew nothing about training. So I paid for a personal trainer. He made me program where almost all exercises were on the machines. At least he put squat and bench press there too. I trained when I had time, 2-4 times a week. Last summer I did some arm wrestling with my friend. I lost. I thought what's wrong. I weighed less than my friend, but he didn't do any weight training. So I started looking how to get more strength. I started doing core strength (Squat, bench press, dead lift, press, power clean, pull-ups). No more machines, biceps curls, calf raises, wrist curls, etc. Also, I started eating much more. With last 2 months I've gained 4kg (8-9lbs). My squat is currently 102.5kg (226lbs), that is ~1.4x of my body weight. I've gained more strength and weight with 2 months than I usually did in a year. And what's most important, now I beat my friend :).

acconrad 16y ago

I hate commercial gyms. Give me a barbell that I can clean and a tire for me to flip and I'm a happy guy.

TimothyBurgess 16y ago

I strongly disagree about the "stretching is bad for you" part... but I guess he did say "without your body warmed up"... you always want to stretch before working out but get your body warmed up first by jogging in place or doing jumping jacks or something for a few minutes. You want ballistic stretching and static stretching. It has without a doubt helped with my overall fitness while reducing soreness.

eru 16y ago
Have you looked at the relevant studies? Stretching can even cause soreness. (Wikipedia is a good starting point. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness#Prevention http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness#P... and just chase the citations.)
nickg 16y ago
Stretching is best done after a strength workout to dissipate blood pooling and lactic acid build up in the muscles. Doing so will reduce muscle soreness and facilitate the muscle recovery process. Of course, stretching in and of itself can (and should) be done as an excellent standalone workout!

sigurrostyp 16y ago

This was a good read.

grobolom 16y ago

I hate articles like this. Not because they don't highlight what a steaming pile the actual fitness and training industry is, but because they're way too slow. Proper training articles have existed for a long time, in easily reachable spots. For all the stupidity at BodyBuilding.com, their forums biggest stickies are those about the 'Starting Strength' workouts - the ones where you deadlift, squat, and bench. T-Nation, another big one, has never advocated anything else for a starting athlete. I just hate when someone posts something like this and goes 'Everything You Know Is A Lie!" No, it's not. I just happen to have read this shit eight years ago, and that was late already.

grobolom 16y ago

kenjackson 16y ago

Kind of odd that there's virtually no data in this article. I feel like I could write an article that said the complete opposite and be just as compelling. Seems like a typical "health magazine" article. No data, just conjecture dressed up as fact.

xster 16y ago

Reminds me of the China Study where the author argues that we spend so much time and money figuring out what individual nutrients do that we don't pay attention to the type of food we eat anymore

sofal 16y ago

Okay I got up to 175 lbs for squats and then I started getting a severe, stabbing pain in my knee when I did them. Seems to me that squats are not so good for my knees. Leg press does not give me this problem. Additionally, I've been doing deadlifts, and just this weekend I pulled a muscle in my back doing 245 lbs (and no, I was not rounding my back). As you can tell, I am becoming hugely dissatisfied with these so-called "core" exercises. I haven't seen much improvement from them at all, and I've only ever gotten injuries from them.

eleusive 16y ago
(Disclaimer, I'm not an expert, but I can squat well over 1.5x my weight for several reps) For squats, you should make sure to go parallel and "sit back" at the bottom of the movement, while pushing your knees out to the sides as you go down. This takes the stress of the weight off of your knees and onto your posterior chain. Otherwise you'll get hurt knees just as you described. Not sure what could cause that deadlift problem, other than maybe trying to lift with your back before the bar clears your knees (which until that point your legs should be doing most of the lifting). FWIW, it took me a long time to really get comfortable with my technique in the heavy compound exercises, but I've seen remarkable gains from them once I learned proper technique. If you're really serious about doing the core exercises with proper technique, I strongly recommend picking up a copy of Mark Rippetoe's "Starting Strength" book. It goes into great detail the correct technique and mechanics behind the exercises.

XFrequentist 16y ago

"Throw us in ice-cold water every day and we’ll sprout subcutaneous fat for insulation" What? Everything I know about physiology and the effects of cold exposure make me believe that this is the opposite of the truth.

sabat 16y ago

maintaining cardiovascular fitness doesn’t really take much more than breathing uncomfortably hard for about 20 minutes, three times a week While that will help, I would not call someone who exercises at that level "fit" or "in shape". I'd call him something less than out of shape. There are a lot of weight-lifting people who have convinced themselves that weights are the key, and that aerobic exercise is an afterthought. Here's the funny thing, though: how many fat weight-lifters have you met in your life? I've known plenty. How many fat runners have you ever met?

anukulrm 16y ago

If you want to lift free weights, a great place to start is Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe.

mixmastamyk 16y ago

Wow, a ten-page article that says almost nothing, despite the shocking title. I think anyone serious about fitness knows that free weights and sports are the most effective and fun ways to get there. Also haven't heard it mentioned yet so I'll share some other good ideas for the geeks. One is to move about a mile or two from work ... arrive every morning refreshed instead of cursing traffic. Two, take up salsa dancing and chat up the hot latinas. Three, get a cheap bike and ride the local hills. Catching a beautiful sunset with a view is a fantastic reward. Also helps me catch up with my podcasts.

puredemo 16y ago

TL;DR: Stronglifts.

chicagobob 16y ago

I've been wondering about getting fit for years, then suddenly one day out of the blue, my doctor told me the secret: "Eat Less & Work Out More" smashes forehead, why has everyone been keep this a secret for so long :)

eru 16y ago
You can also eat more. I added a few kg since I started weight lifting.

Groxx 16y ago

I dunno. I was always told free-weights are better than isolation (because you'll exercise complementary muscles), don't train the same thing until the second day after, and you won't get far if you don't push yourself. For a massively-super-summary: that's all they said, in 6 pages. The rest of it is a lengthy exposition about how his motivating force was someone who told him how pathetic he was, made him realize it instead of just hear it, and then made him do the above.

c0nsilience 16y ago

The author's article is just another opinion, and something that happened to work for him. I've found that mixing things up works for me, and not because it "shocks" or "confuses" the body, but because the biggest obstacle - like he mentions in the early parts of the article - is boredom. However, he's a little too dogmatic in his approach. Finally, I have a huge problem with the article being entitled "Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie" when he fails to define "fitness." He keeps talking about seeing changes in the body--is that what fitness is? Becoming more muscular and lean? What about cardiovascular endurance? Or is it both? He spends too much time bashing the health & fitness industry and not enough time defining what good health is.

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nickg 16y ago

My thoughts on "diet" vs. "exercise": they're two pieces of the same puzzle, and I prefer to manage the "exercise" side of the equation more proactively. Reason is because eating in (esp. in America) today is HARD. There's a lot of crap out there, portion sizes are whack, fat, sodium and empty carbs are everywhere. And you must eat multiple times every day, so that means you make many DECISIONS about eating every single day (hundreds?). Fighting against the grain (pun intended) of what food is readily available and easily accessible is an uphill battle, filled with guilty, uncertain, and constrained decision making. Don't get me wrong, I still try to eat healthy (and I'm lucky to live in San Francisco where there are more healthful options). But, the nice thing about exercise is that you only have to make ONE DECISION every day. And that is to do it. Once it's done, it's done. And it's not too hard to find a fitness activity you really enjoy doing, plus the endorphin rush you get from a good workout is amazing. When you build exercise into your lifestyle as a healthy habit, it's not even a decision anymore, it's automatic. I'd much rather live a healthy lifestyle with a daily (or almost daily) fitness routine than to painstakingly count calories or awkwardly ask the waiter to 'hold the bun, please, and remove the excess butters, sugars, fats, and salts..' every time I go out to eat. That just makes it awkward for you and everybody else.