5 ms·

That “nothing” is everything.

nottorp 7y ago
That "nothing" means that MacBooks (when running OS X) are the only laptops that are really usable without a mouse. Even in some games.
- vinay427 7y ago
  For you, maybe. I think a TrackPoint (ThinkPad) is far superior to a trackpad, MacBook or otherwise.
  - recrof 7y ago
    Not when you want speed and precision. the area of touchpad is far greater and it shows when you want to draw something, or move cursor between edges of the screen. that's the same as playing first person shooter on console controller vs the mouse.
    - hedora 7y ago
      My old correctly calibrated trackpoint (on Linux, even) was better at precision movement than any track I’ve used since (including all the major vendors).
    - jeffhuys 7y ago
      Not even talking about the haptic feedback, pressure sensitivity (fun for drawing, handy for quicklook and dozens of other things). Precision? Oh yes. Moving per pixel is bliss. It might sound elitist, but if someone tells me they have a better input interface than one of apple's trackpad, my mind goes somewhere else. I even replaced the mouse at my work with their trackpad. I remember when I was big at CSGO and wanted to play a few matches on the go one time. I still ranked pretty high, with a TRACKPAD.
      - seba_dos1 7y ago
        Most touchpads have just as good precision - well, unless you count really crappy low end ones of course. Haptic feedback is a nice thing and it's the reason why I own a Magic Trackpad 2 (I have even hacked the kernel driver to get it more quiet than what macOS allows), but that's pretty much its only differentiating factor.
      - vinay427 7y ago
        > It might sound elitist, but if someone tells me they have a better input interface than one of apple's trackpad, my mind goes somewhere else. I don't think it sounds elitist, but just presumptuous. I don't actually think a TrackPoint is superior in every case, and I think Apple has done a great job for a trackpad, but at the same time I'd hate to go back to a trackpad for general use.
seba_dos1 7y ago
Macbooks do literally nothing, it's macOS that does. And with a bit of effort and understanding of the input stack, you can get it pretty close on GNU/Linux anyway - at least close enough for really comfortable usage. I haven't been using mice for years now and I'm not a Macbook user.
- qeternity 7y ago
  You’re missing the forest for the trees. Nobody saying this can’t be replicated. But Apple does it out of the box, and better than any alternative I’ve tried. That’s why people buy Macs. Time is money.
  - matwood 7y ago
    > Time is money. Exactly. I like how Professor Galloway (professor at NYU, investor, podcaster, etc...) puts it - successful businesses create time machines. People will pay large sums of money to gain more time.
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    ...but that's a completely different argument to make. I was answering the question about what does the hardware do differently, and the correct answer is: nothing (well, aside of haptic feedback to be exact, but unless you care about silent clicks it's just a gimmick).
DCKing 7y ago
Yeah, "nothing" is a really poor term to summarize "Apple made fundamentally superior choices in terms of hardware development, software integration and general OS input architecture in the past 15 years". I use both Windows and Fedora enthusiastically on desktop machines, but recognize that even high-end Windows laptops have trouble matching my 2012 Macbook in terms of input. Apple has been miles ahead of the competition in this specific regard for years. I would love to use Linux on a laptop, but although the combination of libinput and modern Qt and Gtk are helping here they're still ways off [1]. Many people who have only used Linux and Windows on laptops for years assume that a touchpad is only there as an emergency. That you cannot seriously use a laptop without a peripheral. On Macbooks, that's simply not the case - I never use a mouse with my Macbook. It's easy and probably deserved to discount Macbooks in other areas (even in terms of e.g. keyboard input, looking at Apple's 2016-2019 lineup), but you don't know how good an input tool a touchpad can be unless you've spent some time familiarizing yourself with a Mac touchpad. Apple sells desktop versions of the touchpad [2]. It might be difficult to believe, but they do so unironically. I bought one for when I connect my Macbook to a big screen. [1]: I found that Ubuntu has a better laptop input experience when running in a VMWare Fusion than running natively on a Macbook, despite all hardware working out of the box... [2]: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MJ2R2LL/A/magic-trackpad-2-silver https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MJ2R2LL/A/magic-trackpad-...
- genera1 7y ago
  > Apple sells desktop versions of the touchpad IMO the best way to control Apple devices is KB + mouse + magic trackpad. Mouse is of course superior for precise movement such as highlighting text, but the trackpad itself is worth it just for the gestures.
  - leadingthenet 7y ago
    Frankly I'm so used to Apple touchpads that I could never even imagine using a mouse with a Mac.
    - robohoe 7y ago
shrimp_emoji 7y ago
https://youtu.be/u6aPgA5549g?t=13 https://youtu.be/u6aPgA5549g?t=13

That "nothing" means that MacBooks (when running OS X) are the only laptops that are really usable without a mouse. Even in some games.

vinay427 7y ago
For you, maybe. I think a TrackPoint (ThinkPad) is far superior to a trackpad, MacBook or otherwise.
- recrof 7y ago
  Not when you want speed and precision. the area of touchpad is far greater and it shows when you want to draw something, or move cursor between edges of the screen. that's the same as playing first person shooter on console controller vs the mouse.
  - hedora 7y ago
    My old correctly calibrated trackpoint (on Linux, even) was better at precision movement than any track I’ve used since (including all the major vendors).
  - jeffhuys 7y ago
    Not even talking about the haptic feedback, pressure sensitivity (fun for drawing, handy for quicklook and dozens of other things). Precision? Oh yes. Moving per pixel is bliss. It might sound elitist, but if someone tells me they have a better input interface than one of apple's trackpad, my mind goes somewhere else. I even replaced the mouse at my work with their trackpad. I remember when I was big at CSGO and wanted to play a few matches on the go one time. I still ranked pretty high, with a TRACKPAD.
    - seba_dos1 7y ago
      Most touchpads have just as good precision - well, unless you count really crappy low end ones of course. Haptic feedback is a nice thing and it's the reason why I own a Magic Trackpad 2 (I have even hacked the kernel driver to get it more quiet than what macOS allows), but that's pretty much its only differentiating factor.
    - vinay427 7y ago
      > It might sound elitist, but if someone tells me they have a better input interface than one of apple's trackpad, my mind goes somewhere else. I don't think it sounds elitist, but just presumptuous. I don't actually think a TrackPoint is superior in every case, and I think Apple has done a great job for a trackpad, but at the same time I'd hate to go back to a trackpad for general use.

seba_dos1 7y ago

Macbooks do literally nothing, it's macOS that does. And with a bit of effort and understanding of the input stack, you can get it pretty close on GNU/Linux anyway - at least close enough for really comfortable usage. I haven't been using mice for years now and I'm not a Macbook user.

qeternity 7y ago
You’re missing the forest for the trees. Nobody saying this can’t be replicated. But Apple does it out of the box, and better than any alternative I’ve tried. That’s why people buy Macs. Time is money.
- matwood 7y ago
  > Time is money. Exactly. I like how Professor Galloway (professor at NYU, investor, podcaster, etc...) puts it - successful businesses create time machines. People will pay large sums of money to gain more time.
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  ...but that's a completely different argument to make. I was answering the question about what does the hardware do differently, and the correct answer is: nothing (well, aside of haptic feedback to be exact, but unless you care about silent clicks it's just a gimmick).

DCKing 7y ago

Yeah, "nothing" is a really poor term to summarize "Apple made fundamentally superior choices in terms of hardware development, software integration and general OS input architecture in the past 15 years". I use both Windows and Fedora enthusiastically on desktop machines, but recognize that even high-end Windows laptops have trouble matching my 2012 Macbook in terms of input. Apple has been miles ahead of the competition in this specific regard for years. I would love to use Linux on a laptop, but although the combination of libinput and modern Qt and Gtk are helping here they're still ways off [1]. Many people who have only used Linux and Windows on laptops for years assume that a touchpad is only there as an emergency. That you cannot seriously use a laptop without a peripheral. On Macbooks, that's simply not the case - I never use a mouse with my Macbook. It's easy and probably deserved to discount Macbooks in other areas (even in terms of e.g. keyboard input, looking at Apple's 2016-2019 lineup), but you don't know how good an input tool a touchpad can be unless you've spent some time familiarizing yourself with a Mac touchpad. Apple sells desktop versions of the touchpad [2]. It might be difficult to believe, but they do so unironically. I bought one for when I connect my Macbook to a big screen. [1]: I found that Ubuntu has a better laptop input experience when running in a VMWare Fusion than running natively on a Macbook, despite all hardware working out of the box... [2]: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MJ2R2LL/A/magic-trackpad-2-silver https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MJ2R2LL/A/magic-trackpad-...

genera1 7y ago
> Apple sells desktop versions of the touchpad IMO the best way to control Apple devices is KB + mouse + magic trackpad. Mouse is of course superior for precise movement such as highlighting text, but the trackpad itself is worth it just for the gestures.
- leadingthenet 7y ago
  Frankly I'm so used to Apple touchpads that I could never even imagine using a mouse with a Mac.
  - robohoe 7y ago

shrimp_emoji 7y ago

https://youtu.be/u6aPgA5549g?t=13 https://youtu.be/u6aPgA5549g?t=13