6 ms·

Introduction to Cybernetics (1957)

97 points by quazar 7y ago

neonate 7y ago
PDF: http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/books/IntroCyb.pdf http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/books/IntroCyb.pdf
- ethanwillis 7y ago
  You have one of the like, two good comments in this discussion. To add to this I'd broadly recommend in (loose order) for people interested in Cybernetics. Maxwell, "On Governors": https://www.maths.ed.ac.uk/~v1ranick/papers/maxwell1.pdf https://www.maths.ed.ac.uk/~v1ranick/papers/maxwell1.pdf Wiener, "Cybernetics: Or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine pdf" : https://sci-hub.tw/10.2307/1266498 https://sci-hub.tw/10.2307/1266498 Also the following is a very interesting read, "Cybernetics and Information Theory in the United States, France and the Soviet Union": https://www.infoamerica.org/documentos_word/shannon-wiener.htm https://www.infoamerica.org/documentos_word/shannon-wiener.h...
  - amatic 7y ago
    The third link was a very interesting read, thanks!
empath75 7y ago
Fun trivia: Cybernetics and Kubernetes have the same etymology, as does the word ‘government’ All of them ultimately are derived for the Greek word for ‘steer’
- throwlaplace 7y ago
  Very interesting etymology indeed. The relationship is much clearer between cybernetics and the transliterated Greek kybernetes and the occasionally used word gubernatorial (or even more clearly transliterated Russian gubernator). Cybernetics Kybernetes Gubernator
- leoc 7y ago
  The negative-feedback device that fixes the speed of a steam engine is actually called a governor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_governor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_governor .
  - kitotik 7y ago
    Or a go-cart, scooter, rental car etc.
  - bcaa7f3a8bbc 7y ago
    It's also why a software algorithm that controls CPU frequency scaling is called a "CPU governor" [0] in Linux kernel. Although the mechanism is completely different, but the analogy is used here since it controls the speed. [0] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/CPU_frequency_scaling#Scaling_governors https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/CPU_frequency_scaling#S...
- nanna 7y ago
  More precisely, the etymology of cybernetics refers to the steerer or helmsman of a ship (the kybernetes). The point is that in the middle of the sea, where there are no stable landmarks, the helmsman cannot navigate by means of pre-establish, static laws in the vein of a mathematician or philosopher. Instead, through interpreting the meaning of celestial bodies, winds, currents, birds, and so on, they have to continuously check their reasoning - they have to find balance. Navigation, medicine and military strategy all shared this mode of knowledge - cunning [metis] - for the ancient Greeks. Norbert Wiener chose the term cybernetics on the one hand because he was well versed in the classics (he would communicate with his father in Latin, and he wanted to name his popular accompaniment to Cybernetics 'Pandora' but his editor refused and called it the Human Use of Human Beings), and he knew this ancient etymology. He also chose it because the Latinate translation of kybernetes is 'governor', and that's what James Watt called the self regulating device he installed in his seminal steam engine. The fact that calling his project Cybernetics also rooted it in the tradition of James Clarke Maxwell's famous paper 'On Governors' was not lost on Wiener. There's no firm evidence as to why Watt himself called the device a 'governor', however he would have known that in 17C England there was a cottage industry of windmill hackers, effectively, who'd introduced mechanisms to regulate the force of windmill sails upon their grinding stones, and they called these mechanisms 'governors'. In British English a 'governor' is still a term for someone who supervises you.
ipnon 7y ago
Has the potential for this approach been stripped, or does it just have a different name now? There are matrices and feedback loops. What was the key insight that kept cybernetics from following machine learning towards neural nets?
- api 7y ago
  It's been renamed several times as things like complexity science, forked into spinoffs like artificial life and dynamical systems theory, and it crosses over into game theory quite a bit. The whole field is fascinating, but it's got a bad case of neologismania. That's a term I just made up to describe the tendency in some scientific fields to constantly make up new terms even if they're redundant.
  - afc 7y ago
    Thank you for writing your comment. It sounds like you're familiar with this field. Is there some book you'd recommend (for learning about this topic, by whatever names) above this one? Thanks in advance!
    - patcon 7y ago
      Re: Complexity science. I highly recommend you always perk your ears up when someone mentions the Santa Fe Institute! Cormac McCarthy hangs out with that crowd: https://www.santafe.edu/news-center/news/cormac-mccarthy-publishes-his-first-science-nonfiction-nautilus https://www.santafe.edu/news-center/news/cormac-mccarthy-pub... The have a great podcast called Complexity: https://www.santafe.edu/culture/podcast https://www.santafe.edu/culture/podcast
    - stevenbedrick 7y ago
      Melanie Mitchell’s “Complexity: A Guided Tour” is a superb introduction to this area. And while I’m plugging her books, her latest one is one of the best-written lay-audience books about machine learning and AI that I’ve seen. I strongly recommended it for anybody curious about the field, and also for people working in the area- her explanations are crystal-clear but not dumbed down in the slightest. It’s called “Artificial Intelligence: A Guide for the Thinking Person.”
platz 7y ago
cybernetics links: What is cybernetics? https://vimeo.com/41776276 https://vimeo.com/41776276 DESIGN FOR A SELF-REGENERATING ORGANIZATION https://www.pangaro.com/ashby+design-for-self-regenerating-corporation.htm https://www.pangaro.com/ashby+design-for-self-regenerating-c... NOTES 358 ON THE ROLE OF LEADERSHIP & LANGUAGE IN REGENERATING ORGANIZATIONS http://www.pangaro.com/littlegreybook-dom.pdf http://www.pangaro.com/littlegreybook-dom.pdf Towards a theoretical foundation for agile development https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7302798 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7302798 Viable system model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viable_system_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viable_system_model Conversation, Education, Constructivism and Cybernetics https://people.well.com/user/elin/edhom.htm https://people.well.com/user/elin/edhom.htm Cybernetics in the 3rd Millennium — Vol. 9 No. 2 — Apr. 2011 https://people.well.com/user/abs/Cyb/archive/c3m_0902.html https://people.well.com/user/abs/Cyb/archive/c3m_0902.html 2017 Cybernetics Conference - Internet Society https://livestream.com/internetsociety2/cybercon https://livestream.com/internetsociety2/cybercon How cybernetics connects computing, counterculture, and design http://www.dubberly.com/articles/cybernetics-and-counterculture.html http://www.dubberly.com/articles/cybernetics-and-countercult... A Tale of the Mirror World, Part 1: Calculators and Cybernetics https://www.filfre.net/2017/06/tales-of-the-mirror-world-part-1-calculators-and-cybernetics/ https://www.filfre.net/2017/06/tales-of-the-mirror-world-par...
- Optimal_Persona 7y ago
  Brian Eno's development of Ambient music and generative art/music systems was strongly influenced by cybernetics, especially the work of Norbert Wiener and Stafford Beer. http://www.trustmeimascientist.com/2014/03/03/brian-eno-ambient-1-music-for-airports/ http://www.trustmeimascientist.com/2014/03/03/brian-eno-ambi... https://rhizome.org/editorial/2009/oct/21/brian-eno-peter-schmidt-and-cybernetics/ https://rhizome.org/editorial/2009/oct/21/brian-eno-peter-sc... https://books.google.com/books?id=rxcqDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT402&lpg=PT402&dq=generating+and+organizing+variety+in+the+arts&source=bl&ots=nz3KijZAZh&sig=ACfU3U2VHKtnqxFL5hdvGTiO0Jxu7dWAjg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjBu4_q8N_oAhXSoFsKHcaJBrgQ6AEwB3oECAsQKQ#v=onepage&q=generating%20and%20organizing%20variety%20in%20the%20arts&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=rxcqDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT402&lpg=... Not ambient, but Eno name-checks Wiener in the cheeky "Seven Deadly Finns" :-): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaLrS0WG7Z0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaLrS0WG7Z0
kitotik 7y ago
For an esoteric but practical offshoot, checkout the Cynefin Framework [0] by Dave Snowden(no relation to that other Snowden). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynefin_framework https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynefin_framework
Rzor 7y ago
I read this thread and I have no idea how this relate to the (little) reading that I have from Prometheus Rising, though I'm told that it also deals with Cybernetics.
- Talanes 7y ago
  How'd you like Prometheus Rising? Did you humor the exercises or just read? I read like half of it a few years back and got a little fatigued, but the ideas stuck.

97 points by quazar 7y ago

neonate 7y ago

PDF: http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/books/IntroCyb.pdf http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/books/IntroCyb.pdf

ethanwillis 7y ago
You have one of the like, two good comments in this discussion. To add to this I'd broadly recommend in (loose order) for people interested in Cybernetics. Maxwell, "On Governors": https://www.maths.ed.ac.uk/~v1ranick/papers/maxwell1.pdf https://www.maths.ed.ac.uk/~v1ranick/papers/maxwell1.pdf Wiener, "Cybernetics: Or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine pdf" : https://sci-hub.tw/10.2307/1266498 https://sci-hub.tw/10.2307/1266498 Also the following is a very interesting read, "Cybernetics and Information Theory in the United States, France and the Soviet Union": https://www.infoamerica.org/documentos_word/shannon-wiener.htm https://www.infoamerica.org/documentos_word/shannon-wiener.h...
- amatic 7y ago
  The third link was a very interesting read, thanks!

empath75 7y ago

Fun trivia: Cybernetics and Kubernetes have the same etymology, as does the word ‘government’ All of them ultimately are derived for the Greek word for ‘steer’

throwlaplace 7y ago
Very interesting etymology indeed. The relationship is much clearer between cybernetics and the transliterated Greek kybernetes and the occasionally used word gubernatorial (or even more clearly transliterated Russian gubernator). Cybernetics Kybernetes Gubernator
leoc 7y ago
The negative-feedback device that fixes the speed of a steam engine is actually called a governor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_governor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_governor .
- kitotik 7y ago
  Or a go-cart, scooter, rental car etc.
- bcaa7f3a8bbc 7y ago
  It's also why a software algorithm that controls CPU frequency scaling is called a "CPU governor" [0] in Linux kernel. Although the mechanism is completely different, but the analogy is used here since it controls the speed. [0] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/CPU_frequency_scaling#Scaling_governors https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/CPU_frequency_scaling#S...
nanna 7y ago
More precisely, the etymology of cybernetics refers to the steerer or helmsman of a ship (the kybernetes). The point is that in the middle of the sea, where there are no stable landmarks, the helmsman cannot navigate by means of pre-establish, static laws in the vein of a mathematician or philosopher. Instead, through interpreting the meaning of celestial bodies, winds, currents, birds, and so on, they have to continuously check their reasoning - they have to find balance. Navigation, medicine and military strategy all shared this mode of knowledge - cunning [metis] - for the ancient Greeks. Norbert Wiener chose the term cybernetics on the one hand because he was well versed in the classics (he would communicate with his father in Latin, and he wanted to name his popular accompaniment to Cybernetics 'Pandora' but his editor refused and called it the Human Use of Human Beings), and he knew this ancient etymology. He also chose it because the Latinate translation of kybernetes is 'governor', and that's what James Watt called the self regulating device he installed in his seminal steam engine. The fact that calling his project Cybernetics also rooted it in the tradition of James Clarke Maxwell's famous paper 'On Governors' was not lost on Wiener. There's no firm evidence as to why Watt himself called the device a 'governor', however he would have known that in 17C England there was a cottage industry of windmill hackers, effectively, who'd introduced mechanisms to regulate the force of windmill sails upon their grinding stones, and they called these mechanisms 'governors'. In British English a 'governor' is still a term for someone who supervises you.

ipnon 7y ago

Has the potential for this approach been stripped, or does it just have a different name now? There are matrices and feedback loops. What was the key insight that kept cybernetics from following machine learning towards neural nets?

api 7y ago
It's been renamed several times as things like complexity science, forked into spinoffs like artificial life and dynamical systems theory, and it crosses over into game theory quite a bit. The whole field is fascinating, but it's got a bad case of neologismania. That's a term I just made up to describe the tendency in some scientific fields to constantly make up new terms even if they're redundant.
- afc 7y ago
  Thank you for writing your comment. It sounds like you're familiar with this field. Is there some book you'd recommend (for learning about this topic, by whatever names) above this one? Thanks in advance!
  - patcon 7y ago
    Re: Complexity science. I highly recommend you always perk your ears up when someone mentions the Santa Fe Institute! Cormac McCarthy hangs out with that crowd: https://www.santafe.edu/news-center/news/cormac-mccarthy-publishes-his-first-science-nonfiction-nautilus https://www.santafe.edu/news-center/news/cormac-mccarthy-pub... The have a great podcast called Complexity: https://www.santafe.edu/culture/podcast https://www.santafe.edu/culture/podcast
  - stevenbedrick 7y ago
    Melanie Mitchell’s “Complexity: A Guided Tour” is a superb introduction to this area. And while I’m plugging her books, her latest one is one of the best-written lay-audience books about machine learning and AI that I’ve seen. I strongly recommended it for anybody curious about the field, and also for people working in the area- her explanations are crystal-clear but not dumbed down in the slightest. It’s called “Artificial Intelligence: A Guide for the Thinking Person.”

platz 7y ago

cybernetics links: What is cybernetics? https://vimeo.com/41776276 https://vimeo.com/41776276 DESIGN FOR A SELF-REGENERATING ORGANIZATION https://www.pangaro.com/ashby+design-for-self-regenerating-corporation.htm https://www.pangaro.com/ashby+design-for-self-regenerating-c... NOTES 358 ON THE ROLE OF LEADERSHIP & LANGUAGE IN REGENERATING ORGANIZATIONS http://www.pangaro.com/littlegreybook-dom.pdf http://www.pangaro.com/littlegreybook-dom.pdf Towards a theoretical foundation for agile development https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7302798 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7302798 Viable system model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viable_system_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viable_system_model Conversation, Education, Constructivism and Cybernetics https://people.well.com/user/elin/edhom.htm https://people.well.com/user/elin/edhom.htm Cybernetics in the 3rd Millennium — Vol. 9 No. 2 — Apr. 2011 https://people.well.com/user/abs/Cyb/archive/c3m_0902.html https://people.well.com/user/abs/Cyb/archive/c3m_0902.html 2017 Cybernetics Conference - Internet Society https://livestream.com/internetsociety2/cybercon https://livestream.com/internetsociety2/cybercon How cybernetics connects computing, counterculture, and design http://www.dubberly.com/articles/cybernetics-and-counterculture.html http://www.dubberly.com/articles/cybernetics-and-countercult... A Tale of the Mirror World, Part 1: Calculators and Cybernetics https://www.filfre.net/2017/06/tales-of-the-mirror-world-part-1-calculators-and-cybernetics/ https://www.filfre.net/2017/06/tales-of-the-mirror-world-par...

Optimal_Persona 7y ago
Brian Eno's development of Ambient music and generative art/music systems was strongly influenced by cybernetics, especially the work of Norbert Wiener and Stafford Beer. http://www.trustmeimascientist.com/2014/03/03/brian-eno-ambient-1-music-for-airports/ http://www.trustmeimascientist.com/2014/03/03/brian-eno-ambi... https://rhizome.org/editorial/2009/oct/21/brian-eno-peter-schmidt-and-cybernetics/ https://rhizome.org/editorial/2009/oct/21/brian-eno-peter-sc... https://books.google.com/books?id=rxcqDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT402&lpg=PT402&dq=generating+and+organizing+variety+in+the+arts&source=bl&ots=nz3KijZAZh&sig=ACfU3U2VHKtnqxFL5hdvGTiO0Jxu7dWAjg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjBu4_q8N_oAhXSoFsKHcaJBrgQ6AEwB3oECAsQKQ#v=onepage&q=generating%20and%20organizing%20variety%20in%20the%20arts&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=rxcqDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT402&lpg=... Not ambient, but Eno name-checks Wiener in the cheeky "Seven Deadly Finns" :-): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaLrS0WG7Z0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaLrS0WG7Z0

kitotik 7y ago

For an esoteric but practical offshoot, checkout the Cynefin Framework [0] by Dave Snowden(no relation to that other Snowden). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynefin_framework https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynefin_framework

Rzor 7y ago

I read this thread and I have no idea how this relate to the (little) reading that I have from Prometheus Rising, though I'm told that it also deals with Cybernetics.

Talanes 7y ago
How'd you like Prometheus Rising? Did you humor the exercises or just read? I read like half of it a few years back and got a little fatigued, but the ideas stuck.