13 ms·

Dear Jeff Bezos, instead of firing me, protect your workers from coronavirus

174 points by jbegley 7y ago

SQueeeeeL 7y ago
We're so fucked, we can't even distribute supplies to people who can't leave their homes without giving them massive exposure risk. Not sure why it's so hard to buy some fucking masks and gloves for the warehouse
- pmiller2 7y ago
  Gloves don't really do much good when it comes to coronavirus. Even if they are completely sterile when first putting them on, the problem is that you can pick up the virus on the gloves. You still have to be careful not to touch your face or eyes. Every health organization I've seen recommendations from says hand washing is the best thing you can do to prevent spreading or acquiring the virus via touch.
  - SQueeeeeL 7y ago
    Fair point, then they should be mandating hand washing. Still doesn't stop someone from coughing on your grandma's shipment of cat food...
    - _ph_ 7y ago
      Shouldn't the virus be dead by the time the package gets delivered?
      - SQueeeeeL 7y ago
        https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200320192755.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200320192755.h... I actually thought viruses lived forever, but I was wrong. The paper linked in this article says 1 day on cardboard, 3 days on plastic.
        ardy42 7y ago
        > I actually thought viruses lived forever, but I was wrong. The paper linked in this article says 1 day on cardboard, 3 days on plastic. I think it's more complicated than that. There are viruses that are enveloped in a membrane, and ones that are not. Unenveloped viruses can survive much longer on surfaces. IIRC, Covid-19 is an enveloped virus. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4462923/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4462923/: > Non-enveloped viruses, such as coxsackieviruses, rotavirus, or poliovirus, can survive for extended periods on surfaces (9, 10), while enveloped viruses, including H1N1 and human coronaviruses, remain infectious on surfaces after several days (6). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1564025/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1564025/: > Most viruses from the respiratory tract, such as corona, coxsackie, influenza, SARS or rhino virus, can persist on surfaces for a few days. Viruses from the gastrointestinal tract, such as astrovirus, HAV, polio- or rota virus, persist for approximately 2 months. Blood-borne viruses, such as HBV or HIV, can persist for more than one week. Herpes viruses, such as CMV or HSV type 1 and 2, have been shown to persist from only a few hours up to 7 days.
  - OJFord 7y ago
    It's easier not to touch your face if you see a glove when you raise your hand, it's a visual cue to stop.
  - nogabebop23 7y ago
    I haven't seen anyone out in public wearing gloves who comes close to observing the required protocol: touching their personal possessions, using their phones or my favorite, the guy who had pulled up his mask onto his forehead so he could have a smoke, while still wearing his gloves. I would also imagine gloves are a better transmission medium for the virus as well... I then go to my car and see used plastic gloves thrown all over the parking lot. It made me so mad. I just want to yell out "Be Better, People!".
- Cpoll 7y ago
  Are there any masks to buy? A lot of news articles are about governments seizing mask shipments. Furthermore, I think most masks are being allocated to hospitals.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - SQueeeeeL 7y ago
    So then what, should the warehouse be left operating under those circumstances... if even one person has COVID, they'll handle thousands of items a day and disperse them all over the country. That's a massive risk
    - Hamuko 7y ago
      Do we have some numbers on how long the novel coronavirus stays infectous on surfaces?
      - SQueeeeeL 7y ago
        I believe this is still the most up to date https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200320192755.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200320192755.h... 3 days on plastic...
        dehrmann 7y ago
        But that's closer to an in-vitro, number, right? It doesn't account for how transmissible it still is?
  - danenania 7y ago
    You need an N95 to reliably block incoming virus, and there's a shortage of these, but any mask or covering (even a homemade one) can drastically cut down on outgoing virus, which is particularly important for people like warehouse workers who have the potential to be super-spreaders.
  - 7y ago
- easytiger 7y ago
  Detecting RNA on cardboard after 24 hours doesn't equal "massive exposure risk." The odds of getting a virus from a mailed package are astronomical and then some
  - SQueeeeeL 7y ago
    There's a lot of plastic in Amazon packages I get... someone could easily sweat on the shrink wrap of my floss
    - easytiger 7y ago
      Again, there has been no evidence that there has even been one community transmission by mail items. There is precious little information about how much surface relay of this or any other virus is much of a problem anyway. Were you full Howard Hughes mysophobia before this came out?
      - SQueeeeeL 7y ago
        I mean, personal attacks aren't cool, but I feel like these are extenuating circumstances. If you really want to know, my grandma is immune compromised from chemotherapy and I worry about people being so relaxed about these attack vectors. If she gets to survive because they shut down this warehouse, I would take that deal in a heartbeat.
        easytiger 7y ago
        I didn't make a personal attack. > my grandma is immune compromised from chemotherap Anyone in that group should be fully isolated and the advice for dropping goods etc, receiving packages is to leave them for 24 hours before handling if possible. The hystrionics about shutting down important logistics to appease certain individuals media induced madness is a serious issue in itself
        SQueeeeeL 7y ago
luxuryballs 7y ago
We have been wiping down and sanitizing any packages and contents that come to our door. Never assume someone else is doing the right thing, just like why you still look even when the light is green.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  COVID-19 can live on cardboard for up to 24 hours, 3 days on plastic. I would suggest using gloves (if available) to open the package, have someone else remove contents, and then with gloves still on, dispose of the box in a container of some sort (garbage bag, etc). Wash hands after all contact with incoming material. EDIT: Washing your hands well is probably sufficient; excuse my paranoia suggesting gloves, extraordinary times.
  - zbyte64 7y ago
    We have a plastic container of bleach water & paper towels by the door side. Bags are set down outside the home and unloaded from there with a wipe down before going in the house. As always, wash hands afterwards.
    - teruakohatu 7y ago
      Just so you know, bleach water needs to be made up fresh each day. https://www.info.gov.hk/info/sars/en/useofbleach.htm https://www.info.gov.hk/info/sars/en/useofbleach.htm
  - pottertheotter 7y ago
    Why not just wash your hands very well after touching the packaging? I have some disposable gloves but I'd rather save them for situations where I can't wash my hands or where I absolutely don't want to touch whatever it is I'm handling.
  - gravity_123 7y ago
    Since I am tired of sanitizing packages and no matter how thorough I am, it feels like its never good enough, now I just let packages sit outside the house for a day and then bring them in, wash my hands like a lunatic and let the package sit again for a day before I open it and clean up the contents inside it(easier than cleaning the packaging).And even then use the thing after a few days.
legitster 7y ago
I don't understand what is expected here. Nobody can get masks or sanitizer. What little there is is getting redirected to hospitals. It's not even a money thing. This person is advocating boycotting Amazon and going to local grocery stores instead. What the hell? How is that better?
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  > This person is advocating boycotting Amazon and going to local grocery stores instead. Where does he say that?
  - wizzwizz4 7y ago
    > If you’re an Amazon customer, here’s how you can practice real social distancing: stop clicking the “Buy now” button. Go to the grocery store instead. You might be saving some lives.
    - zbyte64 7y ago
      Sounds like he is also saying there is more social distance involved in buying groceries than ordering Amazon and the latter is more risky to human lives.
      - nogabebop23 7y ago
        Maybe, but IMO it would be easier to enforce social distancing using processes for employees than what I'm seeing at grocery stores amongst a disperate group of self-centered jerks.
        wizzwizz4 7y ago
        It would be easier, but Amazon's not.
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      Thanks! I missed that.
ajuc 7y ago
Recently they forbidden workers in Amazon warehouse in Poland to wear their own masks. Amazon isn't that big in Poland (most people buy on home-grown allegro or chinese alliexpress) so nobody will cry if they go under. It seems every month there's a story about these warehouses. It quickly becomes the stereotypical worst place to work.
- elliekelly 7y ago
  So even if an employee has a mask of their own they're not permitted to bring it and wear it while they're working? That makes absolutely no sense. Has Amazon offered any sort of explanation for why they wouldn't allow it?
  - ajuc 7y ago
    "Not to spread panic" https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwiadomosci.onet.pl%2Fkraj%2Fpracownicy-amazona-po-tekscie-onetu-nie-mozemy-pracowac-w-maskach-zeby-nie-wywolywac%2F4p2fcdw https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https... > One of the messages from Amazon employees concerned wearing masks in warehouses. According to the man who wrote to us, employees are prohibited from using them. Why? - Not to spread panic - he explains in an interview with Onet. - These are the top-down guidelines. The exception is a lady from a medical point, she alone can have a mask. > Onet's interlocutor also said that until two weeks ago Amazon workers were also forbidden to wear gloves. - It has now been lifted. People can work in gloves, but only material ones, not rubber one. Why is it like that? I have no idea - says an Amazon employee.
    - kqr 7y ago
      Spread covid, not panic?
      - Loughla 7y ago
        Welcome to message control and public relations. It's what we worry about now, and it's what we do as a society/species. In my opinion, perception management is more important than content and substance for 99.9% of companies and executives. This is the thing causing most problems in society today, in my personal opinion.
0x262d 7y ago
Huge indictment of capitalism that we have an unbelievably high level of productive capacity and can't do any of these things: make hospital equipment including ventilators; produce enough masks; keep hospitals open (there has been a steady trend of closures brought on by financialization (profiteering) and mergers); train adequate numbers of hospital staff; and the most ridiculous so far is every business is desperately trying to stay open even for non-essential things, like Amazon. Profiteering is undercutting every possible thing. The profit motive over a democratically planned economy is horrible most of the time but really becomes a mess in a crisis.
- minikites 7y ago
  But sometimes we get cheap flat screen TVs, so it's impossible to say whether capitalism is bad or not. (with thanks to dril: https://twitter.com/dril/status/464802196060917762 https://twitter.com/dril/status/464802196060917762)
  - kazinator 7y ago
    If your life depended on getting a flat screen TV, capitalism would ensure that it costs you $25K if you're uninsured, or a $500 deductible if you're insured, whereby your insurer pays another $8K due to either being big enough to negotiate, or else being owned by the same company.
  - mnm1 7y ago
    That's beyond absurd. So we get cheap, unnecessary items, while many don't have access to healthcare, are homeless, are literally starving, or all three and that somehow makes it impossible to say whether capitalism is good or bad? I'd say that fact alone makes US capitalism bad. Trading millions of lives for cheap TVs and other garbage. I really hope you were joking but knowing this forum, that's probably too much to hope.
    - 0x262d 7y ago
      it is a meme and is meant sarcastically, see the linked tweet.
void445be54d48a 7y ago
The amount of people trying to defend Amazon in this is absolutely staggering. The amount of people trying to protect what Amazon stands for is revolting. If you are one of these kinds of people you should know that you are the enemy of treating people humanely.
- void445be54d48a 7y ago
  And I don't care if this gets downvoted I will just make another account and keep sending this message. I am your enemy.
- jariel 7y ago
  People are contemplating reality, not defending anyone. Zero of the grocery stores I have visited have gloves or masks on, so why aren't people wailing about them? N95's are actually useful for reducing spread in public places despite that the government is telling people 'no masks' - it's even more aggressive propaganda that Amazon's lack of maks policy because it's frankly a lie. The systematic objective is to get the N95's to healthcare workers leaving only cloth masks for the public, which is not necessarily going to help hance the finality of the 'don't bother with any masks' policy. It's point-blank internal affairs wartime propaganda, straight out of the movies. Amazon workers are not more special than the grocery store, or pharmacy workers, none of whom get masks, because they're all going to the medical staff who need them considerably more. The staffer should not have lost his job but someone should have explained 'what's up' to him.
  - viklove 7y ago
    > Zero of the grocery stores I have visited have gloves or masks on, so why aren't people wailing about them? They are! > government is telling people 'no masks' People are calling out the government too... It always surprises me how quickly HN commenters want to jump to the defense of rich corporations and billionaires. > The staffer should not have lost his job But he did, because Jeff Bezos is greedy and has no regard for human life. > because they're all going to the medical staff Not true, in fact Amazon was contemplating donating their stockpiles to police forces for good PR.
gandalfian 7y ago
Oddly in the UK we are getting all our groceries delivered and left on the doorstep. In New Zealand they have been stopped from having groceries delivered in case people touch them and told to go get them from the store themselves. I wonder who is right.
- rwmj 7y ago
  There are going to be many excellent comparative epidemiology studies when this is over, comparing the approaches of different countries and what worked and what didn't.
  - Loughla 7y ago
    Honestly, if we all survive this, the new knowledge base we're about to have is going to be astounding. So that's one good thing, I guess.
- op03 7y ago
  I doubt there is any right/wrong answer here. If one delivery guy gets it and is busy driving around neighborhoods asymptomatic for weeks the delivery would cause spread. If one grocer gets it and is busy running his store asymptomatic for weeks then many who visits could get it. So its just luck. The goal with these measures is to buy time for hospitals. And they both will. The social distancing stuff makes sure flow to the hospital is not as high as it would be if everyone was not social distancing. What matters at the end of the day is how many free beds are at the hospital and what plans they have to handle overflow. Korean hospitals had plans on how to coordinate with each other and between regions for docs/equipment etc to handle overflow/overload.
zamalek 7y ago
I strongly sympathize with the Amazon workers. The real problem is that this isn't the first time Amazon has been in the spotlight for worker conditions (there's even a pretty shocking documentary on the subject) and nothing sensible has ever come from it. Amazon continues to exploit humans who have few other choices, and will continue to get away with it. This whole situation is a really good example of why worker's unions must exist.
- slap 7y ago
  Are you thinking about the documentary Amazon Empire?
- 0x262d 7y ago
  I think Amazon is a good indictment of capitalism in general because by capitalism's standards, they're massively successful, wealthy, and huge. But that is a direct result of how much work they've been able to get out of their workers at any externalized cost - to workers' health, to the state in welfare benefits for workers' poverty wages, to endless shipping's environmental costs, to harming the epidemic response by staying open for nonessentials.
- malandrew 7y ago
  And here is one reason why they should not exist: https://www.wsj.com/articles/oregons-coronavirus-education-lockdown-11585697080 https://www.wsj.com/articles/oregons-coronavirus-education-l... The Oregon teachers union is blocking student transfers to online charter schools for fear that the students will remain in the charter schools and won't return to public school next year. It would be much better if we instead broke down the barriers to moving between jobs like portable healthcare benefits so companies have no leverage to keep employees around and employees can easily change employers if the employer doesn't treat employees fairly.
  - cowpig 7y ago
    I don't understand this reasoning. I could point to all kinds of wrongdoing by corporations. Does that means corporations shouldn't exist?
throwawaysea 7y ago
PPE is very hard to get right now and obviously it is not possible to protect everyone perfectly. Demanding change without a solution is not reasonable. Nor is it reasonable to expect things to be perfect in a difficult/fast-moving situation, with various constraints like limited supply chains and inability to alter physical spaces significantly in warehouses. I for one am very happy that online shopping is available, since it enables social distancing more broadly. Amazon also seems to have made a large number of changes, and the evidence is that they've been doing so for weeks, well before recent news media focus on them. See https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/02/amazon-begins-running-temperature-checks-and-will-provide-surgical-masks-at-warehouses/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/02/amazon-begins-running-temp... > Employees will also be provided with surgical masks starting next week, the company says, once it receives shipments of orders of “millions” placed a few weeks ago. From https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5dm8bx/leaked-amazon-memo-details-plan-to-smear-fired-warehouse-organizer-hes-not-smart-or-articulate https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5dm8bx/leaked-amazon-memo... > Zapolsky’s notes imply the company’s attempts to purchase N95 masks from China fell through. “China has deemed N95 masks as ‘strategic,’” Zapolsky wrote. “They’re keeping them for optionality. They also want to use them for ‘diplomacy.’ The masks in China that we thought we had probably got redirected by profiteers.” And https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-warehouse-essential-goods-only/ https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-warehouse-essential-goods... for changes to stock essential goods. > “We are seeing increased online shopping, and as a result some products such as household staples and medical supplies are out of stock,” reads an announcement on Amazon’s official forum for sellers. “With this in mind, we are temporarily prioritizing household staples, medical supplies, and other high-demand products coming into our fulfillment centers so that we can more quickly receive, restock, and deliver these products to customers.” And https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/update-from-amazons-operations-network https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/update-from-amazon... > To date, we’ve made over 150 significant process changes to ensure the health and safety of our teams. We’ve shared details on the safety precautions we’ve taken to date on the Day One Blog, and today, I want to give an update. > Disinfectant wipes and hand sanitizer are already standard across our network, and the procurement teams have worked tirelessly to create new sources of supply to keep these critical items flowing. The millions of masks we ordered weeks ago are now arriving, and we’re distributing them to our teams as quickly as possible. Masks will be available as soon as today in some locations and in all locations by early next week. Any N-95 masks we receive we are either donating to healthcare workers on the front lines or making them available through Amazon Business to healthcare and government organizations at cost. > We’re conducting daily audits of the new health and safety measures we’ve put into place. We’ve shared some of the photos of these measures here. We also assigned some of our top machine learning technologists to capture opportunities to improve social distancing in our buildings using our internal camera systems. With over 1,000 sites around the world, and so many measures and precautions rapidly rolled out over the past several weeks, there may be instances where we don’t get it perfect, but I can assure you that’s just what they’ll be—exceptions. > Finally, I can’t stress enough how much I appreciate our teams for serving their communities. If someone would rather not come to work, we are supporting them in their time off. If someone is diagnosed or comes to us who is presumptively diagnosed (but unable to get a test), we are giving them extra paid time off. In addition, we are also contacting people who have been in close contact with a diagnosed individual and giving them time off as well, for 14 days, to stay home with pay. There's even more that Amazon has done in response to COVID-19 at https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/amazons-actions-to-help-employees-communities-and-customers-affected-by-covid-19 https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/amazons-actions-to.... I really don't get what all the outrage is about. It seems like a manufactured crisis, amplified by a series of biased news outlets, in order to push a narrative against big corporations, presumably in favor of unionization.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
hummel 7y ago
This is being downvoted by autistic Silicon Valley. Death is awaiting your doors, regardless of your race, sex, condition, or money. Be more human, or humanity will not forget your behavior in the future.
- kevingadd 7y ago
  This has nothing to do with autism.
lowdose 7y ago
Why didn't he just mail Jeff on his Amazon mail. He normally response within an hour.

174 points by jbegley 7y ago

We're so fucked, we can't even distribute supplies to people who can't leave their homes without giving them massive exposure risk. Not sure why it's so hard to buy some fucking masks and gloves for the warehouse

pmiller2 7y ago
Gloves don't really do much good when it comes to coronavirus. Even if they are completely sterile when first putting them on, the problem is that you can pick up the virus on the gloves. You still have to be careful not to touch your face or eyes. Every health organization I've seen recommendations from says hand washing is the best thing you can do to prevent spreading or acquiring the virus via touch.
- SQueeeeeL 7y ago
  Fair point, then they should be mandating hand washing. Still doesn't stop someone from coughing on your grandma's shipment of cat food...
  - _ph_ 7y ago
    Shouldn't the virus be dead by the time the package gets delivered?
    - SQueeeeeL 7y ago
      https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200320192755.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200320192755.h... I actually thought viruses lived forever, but I was wrong. The paper linked in this article says 1 day on cardboard, 3 days on plastic.
      - ardy42 7y ago
        > I actually thought viruses lived forever, but I was wrong. The paper linked in this article says 1 day on cardboard, 3 days on plastic. I think it's more complicated than that. There are viruses that are enveloped in a membrane, and ones that are not. Unenveloped viruses can survive much longer on surfaces. IIRC, Covid-19 is an enveloped virus. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4462923/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4462923/: > Non-enveloped viruses, such as coxsackieviruses, rotavirus, or poliovirus, can survive for extended periods on surfaces (9, 10), while enveloped viruses, including H1N1 and human coronaviruses, remain infectious on surfaces after several days (6). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1564025/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1564025/: > Most viruses from the respiratory tract, such as corona, coxsackie, influenza, SARS or rhino virus, can persist on surfaces for a few days. Viruses from the gastrointestinal tract, such as astrovirus, HAV, polio- or rota virus, persist for approximately 2 months. Blood-borne viruses, such as HBV or HIV, can persist for more than one week. Herpes viruses, such as CMV or HSV type 1 and 2, have been shown to persist from only a few hours up to 7 days.
- OJFord 7y ago
  It's easier not to touch your face if you see a glove when you raise your hand, it's a visual cue to stop.
- nogabebop23 7y ago
  I haven't seen anyone out in public wearing gloves who comes close to observing the required protocol: touching their personal possessions, using their phones or my favorite, the guy who had pulled up his mask onto his forehead so he could have a smoke, while still wearing his gloves. I would also imagine gloves are a better transmission medium for the virus as well... I then go to my car and see used plastic gloves thrown all over the parking lot. It made me so mad. I just want to yell out "Be Better, People!".
Cpoll 7y ago
Are there any masks to buy? A lot of news articles are about governments seizing mask shipments. Furthermore, I think most masks are being allocated to hospitals.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- SQueeeeeL 7y ago
  So then what, should the warehouse be left operating under those circumstances... if even one person has COVID, they'll handle thousands of items a day and disperse them all over the country. That's a massive risk
  - Hamuko 7y ago
    Do we have some numbers on how long the novel coronavirus stays infectous on surfaces?
    - SQueeeeeL 7y ago
      I believe this is still the most up to date https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200320192755.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200320192755.h... 3 days on plastic...
      - dehrmann 7y ago
        But that's closer to an in-vitro, number, right? It doesn't account for how transmissible it still is?
- danenania 7y ago
  You need an N95 to reliably block incoming virus, and there's a shortage of these, but any mask or covering (even a homemade one) can drastically cut down on outgoing virus, which is particularly important for people like warehouse workers who have the potential to be super-spreaders.
- 7y ago
easytiger 7y ago
Detecting RNA on cardboard after 24 hours doesn't equal "massive exposure risk." The odds of getting a virus from a mailed package are astronomical and then some
- SQueeeeeL 7y ago
  There's a lot of plastic in Amazon packages I get... someone could easily sweat on the shrink wrap of my floss
  - easytiger 7y ago
    Again, there has been no evidence that there has even been one community transmission by mail items. There is precious little information about how much surface relay of this or any other virus is much of a problem anyway. Were you full Howard Hughes mysophobia before this came out?
    - SQueeeeeL 7y ago
      I mean, personal attacks aren't cool, but I feel like these are extenuating circumstances. If you really want to know, my grandma is immune compromised from chemotherapy and I worry about people being so relaxed about these attack vectors. If she gets to survive because they shut down this warehouse, I would take that deal in a heartbeat.
      - easytiger 7y ago
        I didn't make a personal attack. > my grandma is immune compromised from chemotherap Anyone in that group should be fully isolated and the advice for dropping goods etc, receiving packages is to leave them for 24 hours before handling if possible. The hystrionics about shutting down important logistics to appease certain individuals media induced madness is a serious issue in itself
        SQueeeeeL 7y ago

luxuryballs 7y ago

We have been wiping down and sanitizing any packages and contents that come to our door. Never assume someone else is doing the right thing, just like why you still look even when the light is green.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
COVID-19 can live on cardboard for up to 24 hours, 3 days on plastic. I would suggest using gloves (if available) to open the package, have someone else remove contents, and then with gloves still on, dispose of the box in a container of some sort (garbage bag, etc). Wash hands after all contact with incoming material. EDIT: Washing your hands well is probably sufficient; excuse my paranoia suggesting gloves, extraordinary times.
- zbyte64 7y ago
  We have a plastic container of bleach water & paper towels by the door side. Bags are set down outside the home and unloaded from there with a wipe down before going in the house. As always, wash hands afterwards.
  - teruakohatu 7y ago
    Just so you know, bleach water needs to be made up fresh each day. https://www.info.gov.hk/info/sars/en/useofbleach.htm https://www.info.gov.hk/info/sars/en/useofbleach.htm
- pottertheotter 7y ago
  Why not just wash your hands very well after touching the packaging? I have some disposable gloves but I'd rather save them for situations where I can't wash my hands or where I absolutely don't want to touch whatever it is I'm handling.
- gravity_123 7y ago
  Since I am tired of sanitizing packages and no matter how thorough I am, it feels like its never good enough, now I just let packages sit outside the house for a day and then bring them in, wash my hands like a lunatic and let the package sit again for a day before I open it and clean up the contents inside it(easier than cleaning the packaging).And even then use the thing after a few days.

legitster 7y ago

I don't understand what is expected here. Nobody can get masks or sanitizer. What little there is is getting redirected to hospitals. It's not even a money thing. This person is advocating boycotting Amazon and going to local grocery stores instead. What the hell? How is that better?

Wowfunhappy 7y ago
> This person is advocating boycotting Amazon and going to local grocery stores instead. Where does he say that?
- wizzwizz4 7y ago
  > If you’re an Amazon customer, here’s how you can practice real social distancing: stop clicking the “Buy now” button. Go to the grocery store instead. You might be saving some lives.
  - zbyte64 7y ago
    Sounds like he is also saying there is more social distance involved in buying groceries than ordering Amazon and the latter is more risky to human lives.
    - nogabebop23 7y ago
      Maybe, but IMO it would be easier to enforce social distancing using processes for employees than what I'm seeing at grocery stores amongst a disperate group of self-centered jerks.
      - wizzwizz4 7y ago
        It would be easier, but Amazon's not.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    Thanks! I missed that.

ajuc 7y ago

Recently they forbidden workers in Amazon warehouse in Poland to wear their own masks. Amazon isn't that big in Poland (most people buy on home-grown allegro or chinese alliexpress) so nobody will cry if they go under. It seems every month there's a story about these warehouses. It quickly becomes the stereotypical worst place to work.

elliekelly 7y ago
So even if an employee has a mask of their own they're not permitted to bring it and wear it while they're working? That makes absolutely no sense. Has Amazon offered any sort of explanation for why they wouldn't allow it?
- ajuc 7y ago
  "Not to spread panic" https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwiadomosci.onet.pl%2Fkraj%2Fpracownicy-amazona-po-tekscie-onetu-nie-mozemy-pracowac-w-maskach-zeby-nie-wywolywac%2F4p2fcdw https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https... > One of the messages from Amazon employees concerned wearing masks in warehouses. According to the man who wrote to us, employees are prohibited from using them. Why? - Not to spread panic - he explains in an interview with Onet. - These are the top-down guidelines. The exception is a lady from a medical point, she alone can have a mask. > Onet's interlocutor also said that until two weeks ago Amazon workers were also forbidden to wear gloves. - It has now been lifted. People can work in gloves, but only material ones, not rubber one. Why is it like that? I have no idea - says an Amazon employee.
  - kqr 7y ago
    Spread covid, not panic?
    - Loughla 7y ago
      Welcome to message control and public relations. It's what we worry about now, and it's what we do as a society/species. In my opinion, perception management is more important than content and substance for 99.9% of companies and executives. This is the thing causing most problems in society today, in my personal opinion.

0x262d 7y ago

Huge indictment of capitalism that we have an unbelievably high level of productive capacity and can't do any of these things: make hospital equipment including ventilators; produce enough masks; keep hospitals open (there has been a steady trend of closures brought on by financialization (profiteering) and mergers); train adequate numbers of hospital staff; and the most ridiculous so far is every business is desperately trying to stay open even for non-essential things, like Amazon. Profiteering is undercutting every possible thing. The profit motive over a democratically planned economy is horrible most of the time but really becomes a mess in a crisis.

minikites 7y ago
But sometimes we get cheap flat screen TVs, so it's impossible to say whether capitalism is bad or not. (with thanks to dril: https://twitter.com/dril/status/464802196060917762 https://twitter.com/dril/status/464802196060917762)
- kazinator 7y ago
  If your life depended on getting a flat screen TV, capitalism would ensure that it costs you $25K if you're uninsured, or a $500 deductible if you're insured, whereby your insurer pays another $8K due to either being big enough to negotiate, or else being owned by the same company.
- mnm1 7y ago
  That's beyond absurd. So we get cheap, unnecessary items, while many don't have access to healthcare, are homeless, are literally starving, or all three and that somehow makes it impossible to say whether capitalism is good or bad? I'd say that fact alone makes US capitalism bad. Trading millions of lives for cheap TVs and other garbage. I really hope you were joking but knowing this forum, that's probably too much to hope.
  - 0x262d 7y ago
    it is a meme and is meant sarcastically, see the linked tweet.

void445be54d48a 7y ago

The amount of people trying to defend Amazon in this is absolutely staggering. The amount of people trying to protect what Amazon stands for is revolting. If you are one of these kinds of people you should know that you are the enemy of treating people humanely.

void445be54d48a 7y ago
And I don't care if this gets downvoted I will just make another account and keep sending this message. I am your enemy.
jariel 7y ago
People are contemplating reality, not defending anyone. Zero of the grocery stores I have visited have gloves or masks on, so why aren't people wailing about them? N95's are actually useful for reducing spread in public places despite that the government is telling people 'no masks' - it's even more aggressive propaganda that Amazon's lack of maks policy because it's frankly a lie. The systematic objective is to get the N95's to healthcare workers leaving only cloth masks for the public, which is not necessarily going to help hance the finality of the 'don't bother with any masks' policy. It's point-blank internal affairs wartime propaganda, straight out of the movies. Amazon workers are not more special than the grocery store, or pharmacy workers, none of whom get masks, because they're all going to the medical staff who need them considerably more. The staffer should not have lost his job but someone should have explained 'what's up' to him.
- viklove 7y ago
  > Zero of the grocery stores I have visited have gloves or masks on, so why aren't people wailing about them? They are! > government is telling people 'no masks' People are calling out the government too... It always surprises me how quickly HN commenters want to jump to the defense of rich corporations and billionaires. > The staffer should not have lost his job But he did, because Jeff Bezos is greedy and has no regard for human life. > because they're all going to the medical staff Not true, in fact Amazon was contemplating donating their stockpiles to police forces for good PR.

gandalfian 7y ago

Oddly in the UK we are getting all our groceries delivered and left on the doorstep. In New Zealand they have been stopped from having groceries delivered in case people touch them and told to go get them from the store themselves. I wonder who is right.

rwmj 7y ago
There are going to be many excellent comparative epidemiology studies when this is over, comparing the approaches of different countries and what worked and what didn't.
- Loughla 7y ago
  Honestly, if we all survive this, the new knowledge base we're about to have is going to be astounding. So that's one good thing, I guess.
op03 7y ago
I doubt there is any right/wrong answer here. If one delivery guy gets it and is busy driving around neighborhoods asymptomatic for weeks the delivery would cause spread. If one grocer gets it and is busy running his store asymptomatic for weeks then many who visits could get it. So its just luck. The goal with these measures is to buy time for hospitals. And they both will. The social distancing stuff makes sure flow to the hospital is not as high as it would be if everyone was not social distancing. What matters at the end of the day is how many free beds are at the hospital and what plans they have to handle overflow. Korean hospitals had plans on how to coordinate with each other and between regions for docs/equipment etc to handle overflow/overload.

zamalek 7y ago

I strongly sympathize with the Amazon workers. The real problem is that this isn't the first time Amazon has been in the spotlight for worker conditions (there's even a pretty shocking documentary on the subject) and nothing sensible has ever come from it. Amazon continues to exploit humans who have few other choices, and will continue to get away with it. This whole situation is a really good example of why worker's unions must exist.

slap 7y ago
Are you thinking about the documentary Amazon Empire?
0x262d 7y ago
I think Amazon is a good indictment of capitalism in general because by capitalism's standards, they're massively successful, wealthy, and huge. But that is a direct result of how much work they've been able to get out of their workers at any externalized cost - to workers' health, to the state in welfare benefits for workers' poverty wages, to endless shipping's environmental costs, to harming the epidemic response by staying open for nonessentials.
malandrew 7y ago
And here is one reason why they should not exist: https://www.wsj.com/articles/oregons-coronavirus-education-lockdown-11585697080 https://www.wsj.com/articles/oregons-coronavirus-education-l... The Oregon teachers union is blocking student transfers to online charter schools for fear that the students will remain in the charter schools and won't return to public school next year. It would be much better if we instead broke down the barriers to moving between jobs like portable healthcare benefits so companies have no leverage to keep employees around and employees can easily change employers if the employer doesn't treat employees fairly.
- cowpig 7y ago
  I don't understand this reasoning. I could point to all kinds of wrongdoing by corporations. Does that means corporations shouldn't exist?

throwawaysea 7y ago

PPE is very hard to get right now and obviously it is not possible to protect everyone perfectly. Demanding change without a solution is not reasonable. Nor is it reasonable to expect things to be perfect in a difficult/fast-moving situation, with various constraints like limited supply chains and inability to alter physical spaces significantly in warehouses. I for one am very happy that online shopping is available, since it enables social distancing more broadly. Amazon also seems to have made a large number of changes, and the evidence is that they've been doing so for weeks, well before recent news media focus on them. See https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/02/amazon-begins-running-temperature-checks-and-will-provide-surgical-masks-at-warehouses/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/02/amazon-begins-running-temp... > Employees will also be provided with surgical masks starting next week, the company says, once it receives shipments of orders of “millions” placed a few weeks ago. From https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5dm8bx/leaked-amazon-memo-details-plan-to-smear-fired-warehouse-organizer-hes-not-smart-or-articulate https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5dm8bx/leaked-amazon-memo... > Zapolsky’s notes imply the company’s attempts to purchase N95 masks from China fell through. “China has deemed N95 masks as ‘strategic,’” Zapolsky wrote. “They’re keeping them for optionality. They also want to use them for ‘diplomacy.’ The masks in China that we thought we had probably got redirected by profiteers.” And https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-warehouse-essential-goods-only/ https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-warehouse-essential-goods... for changes to stock essential goods. > “We are seeing increased online shopping, and as a result some products such as household staples and medical supplies are out of stock,” reads an announcement on Amazon’s official forum for sellers. “With this in mind, we are temporarily prioritizing household staples, medical supplies, and other high-demand products coming into our fulfillment centers so that we can more quickly receive, restock, and deliver these products to customers.” And https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/update-from-amazons-operations-network https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/update-from-amazon... > To date, we’ve made over 150 significant process changes to ensure the health and safety of our teams. We’ve shared details on the safety precautions we’ve taken to date on the Day One Blog, and today, I want to give an update. > Disinfectant wipes and hand sanitizer are already standard across our network, and the procurement teams have worked tirelessly to create new sources of supply to keep these critical items flowing. The millions of masks we ordered weeks ago are now arriving, and we’re distributing them to our teams as quickly as possible. Masks will be available as soon as today in some locations and in all locations by early next week. Any N-95 masks we receive we are either donating to healthcare workers on the front lines or making them available through Amazon Business to healthcare and government organizations at cost. > We’re conducting daily audits of the new health and safety measures we’ve put into place. We’ve shared some of the photos of these measures here. We also assigned some of our top machine learning technologists to capture opportunities to improve social distancing in our buildings using our internal camera systems. With over 1,000 sites around the world, and so many measures and precautions rapidly rolled out over the past several weeks, there may be instances where we don’t get it perfect, but I can assure you that’s just what they’ll be—exceptions. > Finally, I can’t stress enough how much I appreciate our teams for serving their communities. If someone would rather not come to work, we are supporting them in their time off. If someone is diagnosed or comes to us who is presumptively diagnosed (but unable to get a test), we are giving them extra paid time off. In addition, we are also contacting people who have been in close contact with a diagnosed individual and giving them time off as well, for 14 days, to stay home with pay. There's even more that Amazon has done in response to COVID-19 at https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/amazons-actions-to-help-employees-communities-and-customers-affected-by-covid-19 https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/amazons-actions-to.... I really don't get what all the outrage is about. It seems like a manufactured crisis, amplified by a series of biased news outlets, in order to push a narrative against big corporations, presumably in favor of unionization.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

hummel 7y ago

This is being downvoted by autistic Silicon Valley. Death is awaiting your doors, regardless of your race, sex, condition, or money. Be more human, or humanity will not forget your behavior in the future.

kevingadd 7y ago
This has nothing to do with autism.

lowdose 7y ago

Why didn't he just mail Jeff on his Amazon mail. He normally response within an hour.