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This is insane. I can't imagine what was going through the Venezuelan captain's head trying to do this. It's one thing if the shooting is already started to d
by ansible 7y ago
This is insane. I can't imagine what was going through the Venezuelan captain's head trying to do this.
It's one thing if the shooting is already started to defend yourself. But even if this stunt had worked, you're looking at many months of downtime while your ship is being repaired in drydock. Millions of dollars, and bigtime loss of capability for a small navy.
Unless you are an icebreaker, you just don't intentionally hit anything (tugboats nudge after gently making contact, they do not ram).
If this cruise liner was not following instructions (seems more like an act of piracy than legit, but that is another discussion), then you fire a shot or two off the bow of the offending ship. That usually gets people's attention.
Ramming? WTF?
- Scarbutt 7y agoI wondered if the Captain let himself sink with the ship.
- m4rtink 7y agoWell, ramming used to be BIG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lissa_(1866) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lissa_(1866) One can't possibly blame the captain wanting to be as cool as admiral Tegetthoff back then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anton_Romako_001.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anton_Romako_001.jpg
- fnordprefect 7y agoNo need to go that far back. One famous one is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrol_torpedo_boat_PT-109 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrol_torpedo_boat_PT-109
- m4rtink 7y agoSometimes it works, sometimes it does not: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Glowworm_(H92) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Glowworm_(H92) Back in WWI it still worked, with the famous HMS Dreadnought ramming a submarine.
- js2 7y agoI mean, less crazy than trying to ram a ship with a locomotive I suppose: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/02/825897966/train-engineer-says-he-crashed-in-attempt-to-attack-navy-hospital-ship-in-l-a https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/0... https://in.reuters.com/video/watch/idOVC7T0OCH https://in.reuters.com/video/watch/idOVC7T0OCH Strange days.
- bpodgursky 7y agoVenezuela has a habit (recently) of putting loyalty ahead of meritocracy in government positions. I would not be at all surprised if the captain had minimal actual nautical experience, but a lot of party loyalty.
- whymauri 7y agoBingo. This applies to basically all nationalized sectors due to top-down corruption. It's why PDVSA has been collapsing in on itself over the last 15 years in spectacular fashion. All the competent engineers and administrators are dead, in prison, ex-pats, retired, or sorely out-numbered by professional grifters who have mismanaged the organization into the ground. It took a generation to train a world-class engineering workforce and a generation to tear it down.
- battery_cowboy 7y agoEven with the merit, it's hard to train a professional Navy. Being a ship captain (or any other position, even the lowly deck seaman) is a mentally challenging task. There's a lot going on and it's expensive to get as much underway time as the well-financed Navies do. Most Navy ships in small countries sit in port a lot, not sure about Venezuela, but they can't have a ton of cash to waste on underway time.
- fmajid 7y agoEven lots of money is no guarantee, just look at the US Navy's embarrassing string of recent nautical incidents like the USS FitzGerald's.
- slavik81 7y agoA tale as old as time. From the H.M.S. Pinafore by Gilbert and Sullivan (1878): I grew so rich that I was sent by pocketborough into parliament. I always voted at my party's call, and I never thought of thinking for myself at all. I thought so little, they rewarded me by making me the ruler of the Queen's Navy! Now landsmen all, whoever you may be, if you want to rise to the top of the tree, if your soul isn't fettered to an office stool, be careful to be guided by this golden rule: Stick close to your desks and never go to sea, and you all may be rulers of the Queen's Navy!
- i_am_proteus 7y agoRamming (or "shouldering") is not that uncommon. The Chinese Coast Guard has built large, lightly-armed ships[1] partly because the size helps them ram/shoulder other ships out of the way in the course of attempting to build artificial islands and claim sovereignty in the South China Sea. Of course, ramming an 8500-ton icebreaker with a 1500-ton corvette is a different story, and in the Venezuelan case, the stupid have been punished. [1] https://thediplomat.com/2016/01/beijing-builds-monster-ship-for-patrolling-the-south-china-sea/ https://thediplomat.com/2016/01/beijing-builds-monster-ship-... (edited for grammar)
- greedo 7y agoThe Russians also used ramming to capture several Ukrainian ships near Crimea.
- agapon 7y agoThis is not correct. Russian did not achieve anything by ramming, they even damaged one of their ships instead. The Ukrainian ships effectively surrendered after overwhelming Russian forces opened live fire near and on them. The Wikipedia has it right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerch_Strait_incident#The_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerch_Strait_incident#The_inci...
- greedo 7y agoThey damaged their own ship, not by ramming the Ukrainians, but by accidentally colliding with each other.
- aparsons 7y agoThe Tamil Tigers (?) also used ramming boats to great effect.
- willvarfar 7y agoOld timers here may recall The Cod Wars? Iceland and Britain duked it out in three major confrontations, the navies ramming each other but not firing a shot. There are some truly spectacular videos on YouTube etc.
- Melting_Harps 7y ago> Iceland and Britain duked it out in three major confrontations, the navies ramming each other but not firing a shot. Huh! I had no idea, and just did some research on it. Apparently it started in the 50s and ended in '76. It kind of gives further context to the Icelandic People's reaction regarding the 2008 Icesave scandal towards the UK. Who went on to put Iceland on the UK's Terrorist list. The UK got paid back in full by 2016. But I can easily see them being resentful for having the US intervene and stop them from trawling around the Icelandic coast. Sidenote: according to the this video, shots were fired, and one resulted in the UK having to pay Iceland for the inconvenience of commandeer it: https://youtu.be/bxu4_AgIL94?t=139 https://youtu.be/bxu4_AgIL94?t=139
- Wildgoose 7y agoIt was Gordon Brown's government who did the stupidity of putting Iceland on a "terror" list. I remember objecting at the time - Iceland had my full sympathy, and that of many other English people.
- hanche 7y agoI remember this quite well. As I recall from the news, the incident went roughly like this: Icelandic coast guard vessel approaches British trawler, orders it to stop and haul in the trawl. Trawler refuses. Coast guard fires warning shots. Trawler keeps going. Coast guard calls up the trawler, tells them to assemble all crew at the aft end, as they are going to fire on the bow. Crew moves aft, shots fired as promised. Now damaged trawler escorted to harbour. All very civilised. I think it was after this incident that Iceland started figuring out how you can cut the trawl instead. Losing a trawl is a major loss; these things are expensive.
- MrDresden 7y ago
- eatbitseveryday 7y ago> I can't imagine what was going through the Venezuelan captain's head trying to do this. Well, the article does quote this, which sort of makes sense. Doesn’t seem like a totally insane idea, just really poorly implemented. > The navy vessel continued to ram the starboard bow in an apparent attempt to turn the ship’s head towards Venezuelan territorial waters.
- goatinaboat 7y agoI can't imagine what was going through the Venezuelan captain's head trying to do this. These regimes see threats behind every curtain and under every plant pot. It’s possible he really believed, or had convinced himself at least, that as the article says it was full of mercenaries planning to overthrow the regime.