6 ms·

Navy sacks carrier captain, pulls another carrier off station over Covid-19

104 points by tartoran 7y ago

joshstrange 7y ago
So maybe I'm reading this wrong but it looks like Captain Brett Crozier fell on his sword to save his men and "Acting" US Navy Secretary Thomas Modly is just silencing anyone who makes the administration look bad.
- united893 7y ago
  You got it wrong. Leaking this was bad opsec and weakens the Navy. China's been using this opportunity to seize up territorial claims in the South China Sea > https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/world/asia/Indonesia-south-china-sea-fishing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/world/asia/Indonesia-sout...
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    The Navy was already weakened if the vessel had hundreds of cases without sufficient support. Let’s not blame the victim for yet another executive branch failure to act without the appropriate speed and magnitude. If the chain of command fails you, you have no other choice but to go public when your crews’ well-being is threatened. > “It creates the perception the Navy is not on the job; the government is not on the job. That's just not true." I don’t believe anyone is confident the government is on the job, and this letter did nothing to change that perception. It simply confirms what the public already believes.
    - droithomme 7y ago
      > you have no other choice but to go public There's no evidence at all he is the one who leaked the memo. It may have been someone up the totem pole. Without knowing who leaked the memo, his being relieved of duty was premature and will only serve to damage morale. This was a very poor call by the acting Secretary.
      - jki275 7y ago
        He may not have actually leaked the memo -- but he made sure it got leaked. SECNAV's call was the correct one.
        droithomme 7y ago
        > he made sure it got leaked Is there evidence of that?
        jki275 7y ago
        Yes. He sent it to at least 20 people outside his chain of command. That's what you do if you want to make sure something gets leaked. There are formal and proper reporting channels for things like this. He went outside them, on purpose, to ensure the letter got leaked.
        droithomme 7y ago
        Thanks. That's very interesting he sent it to more than 20 people, though I haven't seen that reported on with official sources claiming so yet, maybe I missed something. Not everyone agrees this was the right call: https://armedservices.house.gov/press-releases?ID=2EFC2A13-1968-4190-8215-F9E2FCCB133D https://armedservices.house.gov/press-releases?ID=2EFC2A13-1...
        jki275 7y ago
        I don't really care what HASC has to say about anything. They're a bunch of political hacks. From their own letter: "While Captain Crozier clearly went outside the chain of command, " -- they don't even understand this is a mortal sin in the Navy. You don't go outside your chain of command. The other has been widely reported, this CNN article has quotes from SECNAV. https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/politics/uss-roosevelt-commander-relieved/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/politics/uss-roosevelt-comman...
        7y ago
    - nomel 7y ago
      > without sufficient support. Do you have a reference for this? The letter [1] doesn't appear to mention insufficient support, just that the cases were accelerating. [1] Letter: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Exclusive-Captain-of-aircraft-carrier-with-15167883.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Exclusive-Captai...
      - fzeroracer 7y ago
        Generally if you're pleading for help, that means that there's insufficient support. I'm not sure what else you think is happening here, unless you're calling him an outright liar.
        nomel 7y ago
        I think your response is pretty inappropriate for the question I asked.
        fzeroracer 7y ago
        The final line of his letter was requesting more support explicitly. He wanted more lodging for his sailors so that proper quarantine measures could be put in place. The entire letter was a request for more resources and a change of strategy. That by definition means the current support is insufficient. I'd recommend rereading what you cited.
        nomel 7y ago
        What I believe you're referring to: > Request all available resources to find NAVADMIN and CDC compliant quarntine rooms for my entire crew as soon as passible. I read this as a new request for support for the "war free" plan outlined in the letter. Are you suggesting that he had already proposed this or another plan, but it was rejected or not completely fulfilled? If so, do you have a reference for this? It would be useful if you could make it more clear what is your personal opinion/speculation vs publicly known. I'm trying to understand what happened. > That by definition means the current support is insufficient. In this context, that doesn't necesarily have to be true.
    - koheripbal 7y ago
      I don't think any amount of executive incompetence excuses making non-public military operational information public. That's a very clear security violation.
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        A security violation that would’ve been unnecessary had appropriate action been taken sooner. Sailors’ lives > a preventable “security violation” (scare quotes intended) As if I needed yet another example to share with anyone even considering enlisting in the armed forces why you shouldn’t. As long as the optics make it worth it, you’re disposable, regardless of rank.
      - 93po 7y ago
        No, you see, you don't understand: orange man bad
  - ncallaway 7y ago
    Was it confirmed that the captain leaked the letter?
    - jandrese 7y ago
      I'm pretty sure it wasn't the captain who leaked the letter, but one of the 20-30 people not in his chain of command that he sent it to. He didn't get fired for leaking, he got fired for attempting to go around the chain of command.
  - arkadiyt 7y ago
    No one knows who leaked the document.
  - elSidCampeador 7y ago
    The Chinese did not need for the letter to leak to know what was happening to the USS Theodore Roosevelt. They'd have known already.
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    No. The article you cite claims the incident with Indonesia was in February while this letter was sent in the very end of March.
  - xllla 7y ago
    Perhaps US Navy Secretary Thomas Modly should go on this vessel and join the quarantine to "strengthen" the Navy. Otherwise he's just another coward who mistreats people who actually put their lives on the line.
  - greedo 7y ago
    Do you have proof the Captain was the one who leaked? If not, then you're speculating. He emailed it through Navy channels. And to think that the Chinese are unaware of how ships are or will be affected is naive. And the PRC has been expanding in the SCS for decades. They sure as hell didn't wait until Tuesday when this news broke to "seize up territorial claims" whatever that means. What weakens the USN is a lack of leadership. Almost every officer and sailor I know supported this Captain's actions and hold him as a true leader compared to the Navy Secretary.
    - baybal2 7y ago
      > They sure as hell didn't wait until Tuesday when this news broke to "seize up territorial claims" whatever that means. Similarly, USA had no need to specially wait for provocation to back their allies in the region. Countries in the region were looking with scepticism on US "security guarantee" for decades. And the last few years gave them even more reasons to move away from USA. For example, both Philippines and Malaysia were at some moments seriously committed to conduct action on Spratleys, both times it was US who exerted extreme diplomatic pressure on them to not to do so. They have all reasons to ask questions why do they have to spend diplomatic efforts on maintaining US security guarantee, if US is not willing to defend their land. CPC's think tanks have long found that the best way to put pressure on countries in the region is through pressuring the US. They make it look to US government that their relationship with a given country have "too high of a price," and raise risks, and stakes for the US. Then they come to Washington, and say "hey, let's deescalate, and go back to making money. Just make one small concession on that island." Of course, in the end it will be not USA making concessions, but their vital allies.
  - hcknwscommenter 7y ago
    I know most are assuming Cozier leaked the document, but there is literally no proof of that. Someone else leaked it. Maybe even Modly or Espers or at their direction.
- darkerside 7y ago
  The second doesn't follow the first. Crozier likely knew exactly how much trouble me was in for when he sent that email. Once he sent it, how could the Navy not respond with punitive action, even if they (as an organization?) we're "wrong". Sometimes you don't get the hero you deserve, but the one that you need right now.
  - joshstrange 7y ago
    Well it seems like he sent it up the chain of command and then someone (maybe him) leaked it to the press.
    - darkerside 7y ago
      My understanding is he tried chain of command, got little response, so he cc'ed everyone and their mothers to get attention on the issue. It worked, but embarrassed the Navy, and yes, probably exposed classified information, which he could have seen coming, even if he didn't share it with media himself.
- jki275 7y ago
  He did fall on his sword, sort of. The problem is that letter shouldn't have been made public. He sent it to enough people to make sure it was made public, and that's why he got fired.
- fludlight 7y ago
  It should be noted that captain of an aircraft carrier is one of the highest and most respected jobs in the navy. This guy was in charge of over 5000 sailors and $10b+ in hardware including two nuclear reactors and an air wing larger and more capable than the entire air force of almost all countries. The presence of this vessel in any given ocean affects the geopolitics of half of a continent. That is not a job given to the careless, unreliable, or politically naive. This guy knew what he was doing, in every sense of that phrase.
  - divbzero 7y ago
    > That is not a job given to the careless, unreliable, or politically naive. This guy knew what he was doing, in every sense of that phrase. As an American the thought that he knew exactly what he was doing and felt he had no better option is quite disheartening.
  - dplgk 7y ago
    It's not clear what you're clarifying.
ezVoodoo 7y ago
Now the US version of coronavirus Whistle Blower has been punished and silenced.
nradov 7y ago
More details: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32871/navy-sacks-carrier-captain-pulls-another-carrier-off-station-over-covid-19-concerns https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32871/navy-sacks-carri...
- tomohawk 7y ago
  This story has much more information and context.
  - dang 7y ago
    OK, we changed to that from https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52145230 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52145230.
aaron695 7y ago
If he leaked it he should be sacked. There will be a increase in wars over the next few years. The age of wars decreasing is on hold. There is military action that might be needed at the moment. This is not a joke. We don't need skirmishes kicking off.
- willis936 7y ago
  This reads like Tom Clancy fan fiction. I wish I had softer words than this: get real.
- fzeroracer 7y ago
  Okay, question: Do you think navy ships are black boxes? That zero information gets in and out? Because despite what you may think, sailors do call family and friends. You're not going to keep the virus a secret on any ship. The solution is to try and get over it as soon as possible. Not act like it doesn't exist.
  - aaron695 7y ago
    > Do you think navy ships are black boxes? This is a silly point. A Captain leaking a letter, is different to a country X trawling through thousands of accounts on social media for the truth. At your point there would have been no point any high Chinese official calling alarm in January about the Coronavirus, we already know because China isn't a black box and people were seeing what happened so we all knew exactly what was happening in China. > You're not going to keep the virus a secret on any ship. Everyone knows the virus is on all ships (and many submarines) around the world. This was a Captain allegedly writing up exact intel and undermining his command structure.
    - salawat 7y ago
      To hell with the command structure. The hell is wrong with you people? His command structure is fine, his people aren't, and his asset won't be if shit gets out of hand. The command structure got pissy because by doing what he did, he cut off the opportunity for plausible deniability by his superiors and forced action to be taken because someone else had a record of the situation. The only issue is that someone ended up leaking the damn thing, and guess what? That isn't his fault either unless one of those recipients wasn't a .mil address. Which I doubt. This is a pissy Administration lashing back at an Officer who knew what he was doing and was willing to leave egg on his superior's face if it was required to get the situation under control. Everyone else can beat their chest and say he did wrong, but I've seen and done that move before. "Management" types hate it because they realize your dedication to the mission exceeds your loyalty to them, which makes you a threat in terms of realpolitik. Shit may roll downhill, but the boot to the ass comes up in an arc.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
HumblyTossed 7y ago
Don't embarrass the Navy or the Commander in Chief.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
ilaksh 7y ago
The military is in the business of murdering people. It's strange that people expect them to make moral or just decisions. They are not essentially more than a very official mafia.
- dang 7y ago
  "Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
lawrenceyan 7y ago
Original article on the topic posted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22765355 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22765355
ghufran_syed 7y ago
Why this level of concern about probably the most healthy population that will ever be exposed to the illness? Mostly young, in superb physical condition. The safest thing for them and the community is to keep them on the ship until the disease has worked its way through the shipboard population until they're no longer a risk to their families or the wider community.
- fzeroracer 7y ago
  Because this line of logic is nonsense for two different reasons. First with how fast the coronavirus spreads and can last, this means essentially taking down the entire ship. Having an entire crew range from bedridden to slightly sick is not a good thing for opsec. Second, the coronavirus is not just deadly to the unhealthy or the elderly. Even younger people can require ventilators or die as a result. You would be condemning those people to death.
  - threatofrain 7y ago
    ghufran_syed's statements are a summarization of Navy Secretary Moldy's own official lines. Moldy framed the seriousness of the ship's condition on the stated fact of the sailors young age and the fact that not a single sailor on that ship had yet been hospitalized. He also stated that the ship has unique operating requirements, such as a nuclear reactor and expensive aircraft. The Navy has its own calculus for the values at stake.
  - ghufran_syed 7y ago
    I’m an ER physician treating patients daily, including COVID patients, so I have some experience and knowledge of the relevant pathology, and am exposed to the virus on a daily basis. I also have a lot of friends with experience of military medicine who agree with my position. There is no ‘opsec’ issue here, but there is a potential issue of operational readiness - but it’s hard to suggest that operational readiness is improved by standing down the entire crew of the vessel.
smitty1e 7y ago
Navy vet here. YOU DO NOT expose the readiness of the unit, medical or otherwise. This was akin to putting private keys in the git repository.
- palow 7y ago
  Isn't that a bit overly dramatic. Unless at war, literally no one cares if this aircraft carrier is fully operative or not. People have other problems and the Chinese can figure this out without the letter being leaked anyway.
  - smitty1e 7y ago
    Dramatic? I offered the IT security example alongside. How long does one expect to work at, say, Apple, if one is careless? Fun fact: no one dies if they leak at Apple. As the global situation deteriorates due to the virus, remember to pray for peace. Because what does any authoritarian regime do when things get creaky? Start a fight to focus attention, that's what.
    - shawnz 7y ago
      > if one is careless? That's assuming this was carelessness and not intentional. But then again, I guess whistleblowers usually don't keep their jobs long either. > Fun fact: no one dies if they leak at Apple. No one will die from this leak either, obviously, yet they might if they don't get an adequate response to the infection
      - smitty1e 7y ago
        > No one will die from this leak either Certainly the hope, but this could fall short of prophecy. Which is why, for all the points about rumors, you do make these sorts of official pronouncements. "Loose lips sink ships" and all that.
    - MagnumOpus 7y ago
      Fun fact: No one dies if the carrier anchors at Guam for a few weeks longer with just security staff on board. Less fun fact: Maybe a dozen sailors will die (or have died) if the carrier sails and gets the rest of the crew on board infected. Hmm, hard choice.

104 points by tartoran 7y ago

So maybe I'm reading this wrong but it looks like Captain Brett Crozier fell on his sword to save his men and "Acting" US Navy Secretary Thomas Modly is just silencing anyone who makes the administration look bad.

united893 7y ago
You got it wrong. Leaking this was bad opsec and weakens the Navy. China's been using this opportunity to seize up territorial claims in the South China Sea > https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/world/asia/Indonesia-south-china-sea-fishing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/world/asia/Indonesia-sout...
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  The Navy was already weakened if the vessel had hundreds of cases without sufficient support. Let’s not blame the victim for yet another executive branch failure to act without the appropriate speed and magnitude. If the chain of command fails you, you have no other choice but to go public when your crews’ well-being is threatened. > “It creates the perception the Navy is not on the job; the government is not on the job. That's just not true." I don’t believe anyone is confident the government is on the job, and this letter did nothing to change that perception. It simply confirms what the public already believes.
  - droithomme 7y ago
    > you have no other choice but to go public There's no evidence at all he is the one who leaked the memo. It may have been someone up the totem pole. Without knowing who leaked the memo, his being relieved of duty was premature and will only serve to damage morale. This was a very poor call by the acting Secretary.
    - jki275 7y ago
      He may not have actually leaked the memo -- but he made sure it got leaked. SECNAV's call was the correct one.
      - droithomme 7y ago
        > he made sure it got leaked Is there evidence of that?
        jki275 7y ago
        Yes. He sent it to at least 20 people outside his chain of command. That's what you do if you want to make sure something gets leaked. There are formal and proper reporting channels for things like this. He went outside them, on purpose, to ensure the letter got leaked.
        droithomme 7y ago
        Thanks. That's very interesting he sent it to more than 20 people, though I haven't seen that reported on with official sources claiming so yet, maybe I missed something. Not everyone agrees this was the right call: https://armedservices.house.gov/press-releases?ID=2EFC2A13-1968-4190-8215-F9E2FCCB133D https://armedservices.house.gov/press-releases?ID=2EFC2A13-1...
        jki275 7y ago
        I don't really care what HASC has to say about anything. They're a bunch of political hacks. From their own letter: "While Captain Crozier clearly went outside the chain of command, " -- they don't even understand this is a mortal sin in the Navy. You don't go outside your chain of command. The other has been widely reported, this CNN article has quotes from SECNAV. https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/politics/uss-roosevelt-commander-relieved/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/politics/uss-roosevelt-comman...
        7y ago
  - nomel 7y ago
    > without sufficient support. Do you have a reference for this? The letter [1] doesn't appear to mention insufficient support, just that the cases were accelerating. [1] Letter: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Exclusive-Captain-of-aircraft-carrier-with-15167883.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Exclusive-Captai...
    - fzeroracer 7y ago
      Generally if you're pleading for help, that means that there's insufficient support. I'm not sure what else you think is happening here, unless you're calling him an outright liar.
      - nomel 7y ago
        I think your response is pretty inappropriate for the question I asked.
        fzeroracer 7y ago
        The final line of his letter was requesting more support explicitly. He wanted more lodging for his sailors so that proper quarantine measures could be put in place. The entire letter was a request for more resources and a change of strategy. That by definition means the current support is insufficient. I'd recommend rereading what you cited.
        nomel 7y ago
        What I believe you're referring to: > Request all available resources to find NAVADMIN and CDC compliant quarntine rooms for my entire crew as soon as passible. I read this as a new request for support for the "war free" plan outlined in the letter. Are you suggesting that he had already proposed this or another plan, but it was rejected or not completely fulfilled? If so, do you have a reference for this? It would be useful if you could make it more clear what is your personal opinion/speculation vs publicly known. I'm trying to understand what happened. > That by definition means the current support is insufficient. In this context, that doesn't necesarily have to be true.
  - koheripbal 7y ago
    I don't think any amount of executive incompetence excuses making non-public military operational information public. That's a very clear security violation.
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      A security violation that would’ve been unnecessary had appropriate action been taken sooner. Sailors’ lives > a preventable “security violation” (scare quotes intended) As if I needed yet another example to share with anyone even considering enlisting in the armed forces why you shouldn’t. As long as the optics make it worth it, you’re disposable, regardless of rank.
    - 93po 7y ago
      No, you see, you don't understand: orange man bad
- ncallaway 7y ago
  Was it confirmed that the captain leaked the letter?
  - jandrese 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure it wasn't the captain who leaked the letter, but one of the 20-30 people not in his chain of command that he sent it to. He didn't get fired for leaking, he got fired for attempting to go around the chain of command.
- arkadiyt 7y ago
  No one knows who leaked the document.
- elSidCampeador 7y ago
  The Chinese did not need for the letter to leak to know what was happening to the USS Theodore Roosevelt. They'd have known already.
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  No. The article you cite claims the incident with Indonesia was in February while this letter was sent in the very end of March.
- xllla 7y ago
  Perhaps US Navy Secretary Thomas Modly should go on this vessel and join the quarantine to "strengthen" the Navy. Otherwise he's just another coward who mistreats people who actually put their lives on the line.
- greedo 7y ago
  Do you have proof the Captain was the one who leaked? If not, then you're speculating. He emailed it through Navy channels. And to think that the Chinese are unaware of how ships are or will be affected is naive. And the PRC has been expanding in the SCS for decades. They sure as hell didn't wait until Tuesday when this news broke to "seize up territorial claims" whatever that means. What weakens the USN is a lack of leadership. Almost every officer and sailor I know supported this Captain's actions and hold him as a true leader compared to the Navy Secretary.
  - baybal2 7y ago
    > They sure as hell didn't wait until Tuesday when this news broke to "seize up territorial claims" whatever that means. Similarly, USA had no need to specially wait for provocation to back their allies in the region. Countries in the region were looking with scepticism on US "security guarantee" for decades. And the last few years gave them even more reasons to move away from USA. For example, both Philippines and Malaysia were at some moments seriously committed to conduct action on Spratleys, both times it was US who exerted extreme diplomatic pressure on them to not to do so. They have all reasons to ask questions why do they have to spend diplomatic efforts on maintaining US security guarantee, if US is not willing to defend their land. CPC's think tanks have long found that the best way to put pressure on countries in the region is through pressuring the US. They make it look to US government that their relationship with a given country have "too high of a price," and raise risks, and stakes for the US. Then they come to Washington, and say "hey, let's deescalate, and go back to making money. Just make one small concession on that island." Of course, in the end it will be not USA making concessions, but their vital allies.
- hcknwscommenter 7y ago
  I know most are assuming Cozier leaked the document, but there is literally no proof of that. Someone else leaked it. Maybe even Modly or Espers or at their direction.
darkerside 7y ago
The second doesn't follow the first. Crozier likely knew exactly how much trouble me was in for when he sent that email. Once he sent it, how could the Navy not respond with punitive action, even if they (as an organization?) we're "wrong". Sometimes you don't get the hero you deserve, but the one that you need right now.
- joshstrange 7y ago
  Well it seems like he sent it up the chain of command and then someone (maybe him) leaked it to the press.
  - darkerside 7y ago
    My understanding is he tried chain of command, got little response, so he cc'ed everyone and their mothers to get attention on the issue. It worked, but embarrassed the Navy, and yes, probably exposed classified information, which he could have seen coming, even if he didn't share it with media himself.
jki275 7y ago
He did fall on his sword, sort of. The problem is that letter shouldn't have been made public. He sent it to enough people to make sure it was made public, and that's why he got fired.
fludlight 7y ago
It should be noted that captain of an aircraft carrier is one of the highest and most respected jobs in the navy. This guy was in charge of over 5000 sailors and $10b+ in hardware including two nuclear reactors and an air wing larger and more capable than the entire air force of almost all countries. The presence of this vessel in any given ocean affects the geopolitics of half of a continent. That is not a job given to the careless, unreliable, or politically naive. This guy knew what he was doing, in every sense of that phrase.
- divbzero 7y ago
  > That is not a job given to the careless, unreliable, or politically naive. This guy knew what he was doing, in every sense of that phrase. As an American the thought that he knew exactly what he was doing and felt he had no better option is quite disheartening.
- dplgk 7y ago
  It's not clear what you're clarifying.

ezVoodoo 7y ago

Now the US version of coronavirus Whistle Blower has been punished and silenced.

nradov 7y ago

More details: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32871/navy-sacks-carrier-captain-pulls-another-carrier-off-station-over-covid-19-concerns https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32871/navy-sacks-carri...

tomohawk 7y ago
This story has much more information and context.
- dang 7y ago
  OK, we changed to that from https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52145230 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52145230.

aaron695 7y ago

If he leaked it he should be sacked. There will be a increase in wars over the next few years. The age of wars decreasing is on hold. There is military action that might be needed at the moment. This is not a joke. We don't need skirmishes kicking off.

willis936 7y ago
This reads like Tom Clancy fan fiction. I wish I had softer words than this: get real.
fzeroracer 7y ago
Okay, question: Do you think navy ships are black boxes? That zero information gets in and out? Because despite what you may think, sailors do call family and friends. You're not going to keep the virus a secret on any ship. The solution is to try and get over it as soon as possible. Not act like it doesn't exist.
- aaron695 7y ago
  > Do you think navy ships are black boxes? This is a silly point. A Captain leaking a letter, is different to a country X trawling through thousands of accounts on social media for the truth. At your point there would have been no point any high Chinese official calling alarm in January about the Coronavirus, we already know because China isn't a black box and people were seeing what happened so we all knew exactly what was happening in China. > You're not going to keep the virus a secret on any ship. Everyone knows the virus is on all ships (and many submarines) around the world. This was a Captain allegedly writing up exact intel and undermining his command structure.
  - salawat 7y ago
    To hell with the command structure. The hell is wrong with you people? His command structure is fine, his people aren't, and his asset won't be if shit gets out of hand. The command structure got pissy because by doing what he did, he cut off the opportunity for plausible deniability by his superiors and forced action to be taken because someone else had a record of the situation. The only issue is that someone ended up leaking the damn thing, and guess what? That isn't his fault either unless one of those recipients wasn't a .mil address. Which I doubt. This is a pissy Administration lashing back at an Officer who knew what he was doing and was willing to leave egg on his superior's face if it was required to get the situation under control. Everyone else can beat their chest and say he did wrong, but I've seen and done that move before. "Management" types hate it because they realize your dedication to the mission exceeds your loyalty to them, which makes you a threat in terms of realpolitik. Shit may roll downhill, but the boot to the ass comes up in an arc.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

HumblyTossed 7y ago

Don't embarrass the Navy or the Commander in Chief.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

ilaksh 7y ago

The military is in the business of murdering people. It's strange that people expect them to make moral or just decisions. They are not essentially more than a very official mafia.

dang 7y ago
"Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

lawrenceyan 7y ago

Original article on the topic posted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22765355 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22765355

ghufran_syed 7y ago

Why this level of concern about probably the most healthy population that will ever be exposed to the illness? Mostly young, in superb physical condition. The safest thing for them and the community is to keep them on the ship until the disease has worked its way through the shipboard population until they're no longer a risk to their families or the wider community.

fzeroracer 7y ago
Because this line of logic is nonsense for two different reasons. First with how fast the coronavirus spreads and can last, this means essentially taking down the entire ship. Having an entire crew range from bedridden to slightly sick is not a good thing for opsec. Second, the coronavirus is not just deadly to the unhealthy or the elderly. Even younger people can require ventilators or die as a result. You would be condemning those people to death.
- threatofrain 7y ago
  ghufran_syed's statements are a summarization of Navy Secretary Moldy's own official lines. Moldy framed the seriousness of the ship's condition on the stated fact of the sailors young age and the fact that not a single sailor on that ship had yet been hospitalized. He also stated that the ship has unique operating requirements, such as a nuclear reactor and expensive aircraft. The Navy has its own calculus for the values at stake.
- ghufran_syed 7y ago
  I’m an ER physician treating patients daily, including COVID patients, so I have some experience and knowledge of the relevant pathology, and am exposed to the virus on a daily basis. I also have a lot of friends with experience of military medicine who agree with my position. There is no ‘opsec’ issue here, but there is a potential issue of operational readiness - but it’s hard to suggest that operational readiness is improved by standing down the entire crew of the vessel.

smitty1e 7y ago

Navy vet here. YOU DO NOT expose the readiness of the unit, medical or otherwise. This was akin to putting private keys in the git repository.

palow 7y ago
Isn't that a bit overly dramatic. Unless at war, literally no one cares if this aircraft carrier is fully operative or not. People have other problems and the Chinese can figure this out without the letter being leaked anyway.
- smitty1e 7y ago
  Dramatic? I offered the IT security example alongside. How long does one expect to work at, say, Apple, if one is careless? Fun fact: no one dies if they leak at Apple. As the global situation deteriorates due to the virus, remember to pray for peace. Because what does any authoritarian regime do when things get creaky? Start a fight to focus attention, that's what.
  - shawnz 7y ago
    > if one is careless? That's assuming this was carelessness and not intentional. But then again, I guess whistleblowers usually don't keep their jobs long either. > Fun fact: no one dies if they leak at Apple. No one will die from this leak either, obviously, yet they might if they don't get an adequate response to the infection
    - smitty1e 7y ago
      > No one will die from this leak either Certainly the hope, but this could fall short of prophecy. Which is why, for all the points about rumors, you do make these sorts of official pronouncements. "Loose lips sink ships" and all that.
  - MagnumOpus 7y ago
    Fun fact: No one dies if the carrier anchors at Guam for a few weeks longer with just security staff on board. Less fun fact: Maybe a dozen sailors will die (or have died) if the carrier sails and gets the rest of the crew on board infected. Hmm, hard choice.