6 ms·

These farm workers live in bunk houses basically and are trucked in on school buses. Most of them are migrant laborers or undocumented immigrants. Those condi

by sjg007 7y ago

These farm workers live in bunk houses basically and are trucked in on school buses. Most of them are migrant laborers or undocumented immigrants. Those conditions are not safe.

JoeAltmaier 7y ago
Nothing to do with the title - strawberries aren't the risk. Hopefully masks are there when travelling? And an isolated cohort in a bunkhouse has some benefits. Of course it only takes one.
- forgotmyhnacc 7y ago
  Consider reading the article instead of making a snap judgement based on the title.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
    Consider a title that's meaningful. Anyway nitpicking aside, folks all over are still going to work. So you can 'shelter in place' and get your Amazon delivery or groceries delivered or whatever. If they're young and confident, or really need the money, bless them. As for the useful part of my comment, have you used a drive-thru? Did you see the close quarters and unmasked/ungloved employees there? Meeting a customer a minute for 8 hours? Picking produce at least puts you in an enormous field away from crowded city conditions with a small cohort of people. Its risky, but likely no riskier than 100 other jobs.
borkt 7y ago
My wife works with 14 H2As who serve only one property for 9 months a year in about the best possible situation and it is definitely true that they live in bunk houses, but for better or worse you find this everywhere in the world, even singapore[1]. In 10 years of working in the ag industry though, every place she has worked they have always been documented, whether FLC or H2A. The majority I've worked with while helping out during harvest are looking for some order and steady pay to send home while avoiding cartel chaos in Michiocan; they are all upstanding individuals, some who even had professional jobs back home, for example one is a dentist. It is very uncommon in our experience to find undocumented workers in these regulated environments, though you will still find plenty at the even city sponsored "day laborer" centers, or working for the crews that end up selling their fruit on street corners in cities. From what we have hears, 20-30 years ago there was a much larger truly undocumented immigrant issue. [1] https://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/hidden-slums-singapore-revealed-021739643.html https://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/hidden-slums-...
- stainforth 7y ago
  "It's bad, but think how much worse it could be"
- danans 7y ago
  > but for better or worse you find this everywhere in the world, even singapore[1] What relevance does that have to whether or not these workers should get reasonable protection from coronavirus risks, and treatment if they get sick?
- bluGill 7y ago
  Note that big farmers tend to be careful about illegal labor. When you have millions of dollars in land, you stand to lose a lot if some prosecuter is looking for an example. Smaller guys don't have as much to lose and can appear sympathetic against the big government so they are more likely to risk it.
grey-area 7y ago
Don't do that then. Maybe we should pay more for strawberries and treat workers better?
tw04 7y ago
There's a big difference between "the job can't be done safely" and "the way the job was done previously wouldn't be safe if they continue doing it that way". There's literally no step in "picking strawberries" that can't be done while maintaining social distancing. It will increase the cost of labor, and force humans to be treated like... humans. But farming isn't inherently unsafe re: coronavirus.
- anoonmoose 7y ago
  You say "increase the cost of labor" like it's nothing. Fact is, industries like this couldn't be operated on the up and up in the US- people wouldn't buy the product at the price it'd need to be sold for. I'm not saying this to justify the current conditions, I'm just pointing out that it's this or an eradication of the industry. edit: an eradication I'm totally fine with.
  - grey-area 7y ago
    What price do you think strawberries would be with better conditions? I think the market would support double the price, there would just be lower sales.
    - gridlockd 7y ago
      With strawberries, you'd think that the retail market price is already pretty close to the price that yields maximum profits. However, the wholesale price may be far lower than that, because of oligopsony.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 7y ago
    If the industry can't survive by following the rules then the leaders of that industry who profited from illicit behaviors should go to prison for decades and their assets should be sold off to pay damages to the effected. The industry can correct itself or die off. If no one wants a product at a humane price then the industry should go extinct in a functioning society.
bluGill 7y ago
For context, housing is not something they are required to take. The they can live in a tent which is what they were doing 70 years ago when the farmers felt sorry for them living in a tent and built a bunk house for them to live in if they wanted. Bad as a bunkhouse is, almost everyone agrees it is better than a tent and so they live in that. (I love sleeping in a tent, but that is because it is a vacation I do once a year, most of my nights are spent in a house)

by sjg007 7y ago

These farm workers live in bunk houses basically and are trucked in on school buses. Most of them are migrant laborers or undocumented immigrants. Those conditions are not safe.

JoeAltmaier 7y ago

Nothing to do with the title - strawberries aren't the risk. Hopefully masks are there when travelling? And an isolated cohort in a bunkhouse has some benefits. Of course it only takes one.

forgotmyhnacc 7y ago
Consider reading the article instead of making a snap judgement based on the title.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago
  Consider a title that's meaningful. Anyway nitpicking aside, folks all over are still going to work. So you can 'shelter in place' and get your Amazon delivery or groceries delivered or whatever. If they're young and confident, or really need the money, bless them. As for the useful part of my comment, have you used a drive-thru? Did you see the close quarters and unmasked/ungloved employees there? Meeting a customer a minute for 8 hours? Picking produce at least puts you in an enormous field away from crowded city conditions with a small cohort of people. Its risky, but likely no riskier than 100 other jobs.

borkt 7y ago

My wife works with 14 H2As who serve only one property for 9 months a year in about the best possible situation and it is definitely true that they live in bunk houses, but for better or worse you find this everywhere in the world, even singapore[1]. In 10 years of working in the ag industry though, every place she has worked they have always been documented, whether FLC or H2A. The majority I've worked with while helping out during harvest are looking for some order and steady pay to send home while avoiding cartel chaos in Michiocan; they are all upstanding individuals, some who even had professional jobs back home, for example one is a dentist. It is very uncommon in our experience to find undocumented workers in these regulated environments, though you will still find plenty at the even city sponsored "day laborer" centers, or working for the crews that end up selling their fruit on street corners in cities. From what we have hears, 20-30 years ago there was a much larger truly undocumented immigrant issue. [1] https://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/hidden-slums-singapore-revealed-021739643.html https://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/hidden-slums-...

stainforth 7y ago
"It's bad, but think how much worse it could be"
danans 7y ago
> but for better or worse you find this everywhere in the world, even singapore[1] What relevance does that have to whether or not these workers should get reasonable protection from coronavirus risks, and treatment if they get sick?
bluGill 7y ago
Note that big farmers tend to be careful about illegal labor. When you have millions of dollars in land, you stand to lose a lot if some prosecuter is looking for an example. Smaller guys don't have as much to lose and can appear sympathetic against the big government so they are more likely to risk it.

grey-area 7y ago

Don't do that then. Maybe we should pay more for strawberries and treat workers better?

tw04 7y ago

There's a big difference between "the job can't be done safely" and "the way the job was done previously wouldn't be safe if they continue doing it that way". There's literally no step in "picking strawberries" that can't be done while maintaining social distancing. It will increase the cost of labor, and force humans to be treated like... humans. But farming isn't inherently unsafe re: coronavirus.

anoonmoose 7y ago
You say "increase the cost of labor" like it's nothing. Fact is, industries like this couldn't be operated on the up and up in the US- people wouldn't buy the product at the price it'd need to be sold for. I'm not saying this to justify the current conditions, I'm just pointing out that it's this or an eradication of the industry. edit: an eradication I'm totally fine with.
- grey-area 7y ago
  What price do you think strawberries would be with better conditions? I think the market would support double the price, there would just be lower sales.
  - gridlockd 7y ago
    With strawberries, you'd think that the retail market price is already pretty close to the price that yields maximum profits. However, the wholesale price may be far lower than that, because of oligopsony.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 7y ago
  If the industry can't survive by following the rules then the leaders of that industry who profited from illicit behaviors should go to prison for decades and their assets should be sold off to pay damages to the effected. The industry can correct itself or die off. If no one wants a product at a humane price then the industry should go extinct in a functioning society.

bluGill 7y ago

For context, housing is not something they are required to take. The they can live in a tent which is what they were doing 70 years ago when the farmers felt sorry for them living in a tent and built a bunk house for them to live in if they wanted. Bad as a bunkhouse is, almost everyone agrees it is better than a tent and so they live in that. (I love sleeping in a tent, but that is because it is a vacation I do once a year, most of my nights are spent in a house)