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Sigh. I mean, congratulations to the founders of Dark Sky. It’s a wonderful app and they deserve all the money they’ll get from this and they deserve a lot of
by untog 7y ago
Sigh.
I mean, congratulations to the founders of Dark Sky. It’s a wonderful app and they deserve all the money they’ll get from this and they deserve a lot of credit for not selling user data when almost every other weather app does. But shutting down the API and Android apps feels like an egregious move by Apple.
And I hope we actually see a good improvement to the Apple weather app as a result of this. I remember a few years ago Apple bought a fantastic public transit app (Embark?), shut it down and I still don’t think their Maps app comes close to the original transit app.
Vaguely topical thought: I wonder if we’re going to see a lot more of this. A large economic downturn means a lot of small, independent companies will struggle to survive. Being swallowed by a megacorp might be one of the few ways to keep something alive.
- droopyEyelids 7y agoIn Tokyo I was blown away by Apple Maps- found it way more useful than Google (gmaps is my default). Maybe only useful to tourists who are used to simpler transit systems, but I was happy to see Apple was driving the state of the art there.
- ksec 7y agoI think this is the new Apple Map, the old Apple Map and Map Data from Japan is possibly the worst of all maps in developed countries. Everyone I know in Japan defaults to Map from Yahoo.
- ramraj07 7y agoA two year wind down time seems more than reasonable for an API though.
- KeepFlying 7y agoReasonable considering the situation , sure. But the situation shouldn't be happening in the first place. I could understand closing off the API even. What I don't accept is shuttering the Android app. I wish they would keep that alive in even a limited way and keep all the fanciness to Apple at the very least.
- notthemessiah 7y ago> I remember a few years ago Apple bought a fantastic public transit app (Embark?), shut it down and I still don’t think their Maps app comes close to the original transit app. When Edwin Howard Armstrong invented FM radio, he was working for RCA, which had everything invested in AM radio, an incompatible technology. RCA chose not to invest, and used their political clout to lobby the FCC to cripple FM radio, and their lawyers to drive Armstrong into debt in a protracted legal battle. This drove Armstrong to suicide by defenestration. For companies like Apple, these acquisitions are more about killing competition than they are about improving their own services or user interfaces. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Howard_Armstrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Howard_Armstrong http://www.free-culture.cc/ http://www.free-culture.cc/
- realityking 7y agoI don't know. How's Dark Sky competing with Apple? I don't think they derive much, if any, revenue from the Weather app. More likely they're paying for the data.
- fooey 7y agoMaybe this is the start of the Epic Games business model. Buy things and make them exclusive just so no one else can have them.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- yepthatsreality 7y agoE^3 model[0], different parameters. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extingu...
- madeofpalk 7y agoI mean in Epic's case, its really more like movie/tv/book deals, except with much more favourable terms to the creators.
- sjs382 7y agoSeriously—as someone who lives in a place where a simple rainstorm can have major consequences, DarkSky's "It's going to rain in the next hour"-style alerts have become an important tool. I'm an otherwise happy tvOS, macOS and MBP (though Android-using) customer but I'm going to need to re-consider lest I get bitten again in the future.
- dashundchen 7y ago> I remember a few years ago Apple bought a fantastic public transit app (Embark?), shut it down and I still don’t think their Maps app comes close to the original transit app. Semi-related but for transit apps, I much prefer the dedicated "Transit" app over any of the mapping services. https://transitapp.com/ https://transitapp.com/ It has great visualizations of nearby lines and departures, gives bike/walk/taxi alternative times, allows you to select which transit systems, much more customizable in route planning, alerts on stops, schedule changes, when to leave, and it utilizes live data from other riders on where a bus or train is if you're willing to share your location during your ride. Worked well in every North American city I've been in with a transit system.
- poooogles 7y ago>Semi-related but for transit apps, I much prefer the dedicated "Transit" app over any of the mapping services. Have you tried Citymapper? It looks pretty similar in features and covers a different set of cities (there's some crossover but not as much as I'd of thought), might be useful.
- madeofpalk 7y agoFrom my use in London, out of Google Maps, Apple Maps, and Citymapper, I've found Citimapper to be the worst. They're all basically working with the exact same data, but I find Apple Map transit directions to be the easiest to use, providing I'm in one of the limited cities it supports.
- jrockway 7y agoI've also never liked the built-in Transit functionality in either Google or Apple maps. It always seems like it's trying to be smart, rather than giving me the information I actually want. (The information I actually want is, "should I leave now, or will I just be stranded underground for 30 minutes?" I know how long it takes me to get down to the platform at the stations I frequent, but Apple and Google don't.) I wrote my own little thing: https://jrock.us/mta.html https://jrock.us/mta.html. It just pulls the train arrival times for my home and work stations, the transfer stations along the way, and system-wide service advisories. It fits on one screen. The code is a trash fire (it's just jquery that injects raw HTML), but it works ;)
- k9quaint 7y agoCrap. I liked Dark Sky. I actually downloaded it because Apple Weather predicted 50 degrees F and it turned out to be 30degrees F with another 30 windchill. Grats Dark Sky founders.
- wrycoder 7y agoIt keeps greeting me every morning with the weather in Cupertino, though I’m three thousand miles away. It seems it forgets my location every upgrade.
- floatingatoll 7y agoApple consistently shuts down Apple apps, Android apps, and/or APIs as part of their terms of purchase over the past decade.
- Infinitesimus 7y ago> But shutting down the API and Android apps feels like an egregious move by Apple. Yes but that's inline with what you'd expect Apple to do though. They won't support any non-Apple ecosystem unless they have to - it's just their way of doing things
- reaperducer 7y agoYes but that's inline with what you'd expect Apple to do though. Is it? Did Shazam stop working on Android when Apple ate it? Honest question, since I don't have an Android device.
- fenwick67 7y agoShazam still works on Android. But Shazam usage data is valuable, arguably.
- sah2ed 7y agoPerhaps you are right that data on listens is valuable to Apple. Shazam on Android is a net producer of data, while Dark Sky on Android is a net consumer of data.
- cpeterso 7y agoWhere does Dark Sky get its weather data? Do they crowdsource any data from their apps? If so, then continuing to support Android devices could still provide value to Apple.
- Rebelgecko 7y agoNo. Although some apps like Apple Music on Android are clearly treated like redheaded stepchildren by Apple
- saagarjha 7y agoApple Music in general is a remarkably poor experience on any platform.
- gregkerzhner 7y agoInteresting that Google makes a ton of apps for iOS but Apple doesn't go the other way.
- turdnagel 7y agoAFAIK there are two Apple apps on Android: one for Apple Music, and another for migrating your data from Android to iOS.
- realityking 7y agoTechnically five apps across two profiles: - Move to iOS - Apple Music - Beats - Shazam - Shazam Lite I'm actually a little surprised they didn't release Apple TV+ for Android. Profiles - https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Apple+Inc.&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Apple+Inc.&h... - https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Apple,+Inc.&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Apple,+Inc.&...
- balladeer 7y agoI've used some of their Android apps (Apple Music for the longest time). It feels like someone made them as a weekend project and then Apple forgot to take it down.
- zcrackerz 7y agoThat's because Google is an ad company while Apple is a hardware company.
- lozaning 7y agoApple is a services company now according to them, and as demonstrated by the Apple tv app on my Samsung TV.
- fermienrico 7y agoServices != Advertisement. Advertisement is about collecting data from potential customers and offering that to advertisers. Services in the context of Apple is about selling the hardware hoping to capitalize on the ecosystem of their services (music, news, icloud, etc). In extreme cases such as Sony who sells PlayStations ("hardware") at a loss hoping to recover it from game sales ("services"). Apple is more like Sony than Google.
- JeremyNT 7y agoSigh is right. I used and paid for dark sky on Android, and now it's dead. This is one way Apple tries to lock people in, and it's really frustrating. This isn't an efficient market situation, this is a monopolist protecting their walled garden kingdom by slurping up the cross platform innovators. I'm terribly disappointed in the Dark Sky authors for doing this to long time loyal customers, no matter what their paychecks look like.
- simonh 7y agoHow is iOS in any way, shape or form a monopoly?
- vertis 7y agoThere is a difference between being a monopoly and monopolist behaviour. One has successfully become the only one standing, one is seeking to shut out competition by one method or another. At least to my understanding.
- scarface74 7y agoWhat competition? Is it “monopolistic” every time that any company buys a smaller company instead of developing it in house?
- drusepth 7y agoI don't think anyone's raising any problems about Apple buying a small company instead of developing comparable functionality in-house. People are raising concerns over Apple buying a small company and shutting down its offerings to any platform that isn't Apple's.
- scarface74 7y agoSo Apple should be forced to develop for a competitors platform?
- thayne 7y ago> A large economic downturn means a lot of small, independent companies will struggle to survive. Being swallowed by a megacorp might be one of the few ways to keep something alive. This occurred to me as well, almost as soon as the economic impacts of COVID-19 was apparent. And in particular that this will strenghen the power of large coporations that can weather the storm, at the expense of smaller companies, and competition.
- windexh8er 7y agoI've been a Dark Sky user since the beginning. I likely brought about a dozen users to their service over the years. This really sucks, but I'm sure for the founders it was worth it. Apple will lose a lot of viability in Dark Sky as they'll be cutting off sensor input - so I guess, I just don't understand the move. Sure, Apple weather sucks so maybe this replaces it? I think the thing that frustrates me is that I've been a paying customer for a long time only for the parent purchaser to shut me out. Like I said, I'm glad for the founders, but as the parent here has stated - I highly doubt Apple will do much of anything with this.
- Spooky23 7y agoApple always is rough with acquisitions of consumer stuff. Workflow is a great example, many of the third party integrations and Apple Watch support went poof.
- saagarjha 7y agoAnd Workflow is one the better acquisitions…
- cageface 7y agoApple's walled garden is more and more a shiny cage. Vote with your dollars and support more open alternatives. I switched to a Note 10 recently after using iPhones for years and I'm really enjoying the overall experience and the flexibility to do many things with my hardware that Apple feels I shouldn't be allowed to do.
- tw04 7y agoSo you move from apples to googles? At least Apple pretends to care about privacy.
- cageface 7y agoWe talk about privacy as an absolute but privacy from whom? I'm mostly concerned about the government getting and abusing my data and if I use iCloud backups all my data is right there for them to take. With Google's activity controls I feel like I have more control over what they're storing. That said I do wish there was a third option besides Apple and Google.
- toss4732 7y agomaybe in 10 years pine or purism will have usable phones.
- vertis 7y agoPrivacy is an interesting argument. Apple theoretically respects privacy more, but you have to take their word. You don't have control of your device. Android phones on the other hand at least have the option of installing a variant that is more privacy focused, such as Copperhead[1]. I can install F-Droid and follow some of the other recommendations on the Free Software Foundation website to "Free my Android"[2]. All without having to jailbreak my device. Now, granted this is an expert action, but it allows people that care about it to accomplish it. Do you lose a lot of functionality? Sure, but all Security and Privacy is about trade-offs. [1]: https://copperhead.co/android/ https://copperhead.co/android/ [2]: https://fsfe.org/campaigns/android/liberate.en.html https://fsfe.org/campaigns/android/liberate.en.html
- sneak 7y ago> they deserve a lot of credit for not selling user data How can you say that on a day that they sold all the user data?
- dewey 7y agoHow do you know they did? You can buy a company without handing over any sensitive user data. I doubt Apple needs the data if it’s more of an aquihire.
- paxys 7y agoYes you can technically do anything, but unless the press release says "Dark Sky is joining Apple but is also deleting all customer data from its servers beforehand" it's safe to assume that Apple owns the entire company (including its physical and intellectual assets) unless proven otherwise.
- summerlight 7y agoProbably this is for aqui-hire + customer lock-in, so I doubt if we'll see any material improvements on the Apple weather app anytime soon.
- willis936 7y agoJesus christ. That’s the second time in 3 months that I’ll have to rewrite rainmeter skins to change weather API. How hard can it be to just point to data? Time to just go NOAA.
- dominotw 7y ago>A large economic downturn means a lot of small, independent companies will struggle to survive. Being swallowed by a megacorp might be one of the few ways to keep something alive. this is going to huge oil company consolidation now
- rswail 7y agoThis isn't because of the economic downturn. This is because just before COVID-19, Saudia Arabia and Russia began an oil supply war. It's a pissing match between MBS and Putin. MBS/SA wanted to increase production which lowers prices, Putin wanted to maintain current levels because lower prices let US shale oil back into the market. Prices dropped to the mid USD 30s per barrel. Then COVID-19 hit. The result is that oil has dropped now to mid USD20s/barrel. US shale oil producers are uneconomical below USD40/barrel.
- hinkley 7y agoAs a founder or VC you just made a lot of money. As a normal employee you just found out that 1) buyouts don’t make you rich, 2) that “success” can look exactly like failure because your product got cancelled, and in about four months, 3) that promises from your ex boss are unenforceable. The major upside for most employees is that they just got acquihired into Apple and they get to put that on their resume. Not everyone is so fortunate.
- hinkley 7y agoIt wasn't until I read the commentary that I realized that Dark Sky has Android developers. That may end up being an uncomfortable choice between quickly learning Swift or being phased out.
- onetimemanytime 7y agoJust like Maps, weather is a must have app so Apple is trying to do it in house. IMO, that's all there is with this move.