6 ms·

Other browsers support DRM too, but with different tradeoffs. Chrome uses Widevine, but one of Chrome's philosophies is that you should be able to wipe a Chrom

Other browsers support DRM too, but with different tradeoffs. Chrome uses Widevine, but one of Chrome's philosophies is that you should be able to wipe a Chrome install, reinstall Chrome, and have no trace that before/after are the same person. That means no leveraging machine-specific hardware details that would persist across installs. "Software-only DRM", essentially. Edge on Windows (and Safari on OSX) are able to leverage more hardware-specific functionality --- which from a DRM perspective are considered "more secure", but the tradeoff is a reduction of end-user anonymity (i.e. if private keys baked into a hardware TPM are involved). Last I checked, Chrome/Firefox were capped at 720p content, Safari/Edge at 1080p, though it looks like Edge is now able to stream 4k.

tryptophan 7y ago
Its absurd that paying customers get a worse experience than just using the piratebay.
- recursive 7y ago
  Last time I used piratebay, I saw a lot of porn and malware/scam ads. I had to find and install a torrent client. Then I had to make sure I was downloading a movie that had enough seeders. And then I couldn't watch the movie until (and if) the download finished. When I use netflix, I have a much better experience.
  - chii 7y ago
    You obviously haven't tried popcorntime.
    - mcdevilkiller 7y ago
      One of the best solutions out there.
    - jensvdh 7y ago
      Which is illegal.
      - oauea 7y ago
        And torrents (of copyrighted content) aren't? You're completely missing the point of this thread.
      - nmz 7y ago
        That's kind of the point, the illegal solution is better than the legal one.
    - crucialfelix 7y ago
      Used it once, cost me €840. With torrents you can get a film in minutes. With popcorn you are exposed the entire time you watch the film. In Germany they monitor peer connections and send a payment demanding an out of court settlement. After two years they escalate to a court appearance in a remote town. If you don't show, you lose and they turn it over to debt collection. But I have to say Birdman was a great film.
      - tjpnz 7y ago
        This is exactly why I use a VPN. Last thing anyone needs is to be inconvenienced by BS laws bought buy special interests.
  - olyjohn 7y ago
    I know this is all anecdotal, but last time I used a torrent site, I found the movie immediately and it pulled the whole thing down in under 3 minutes. Could be that it was a newer movie and pretty popular. I do see a lot of older stuff that's not being seeded much anymore.
  - heavyset_go 7y ago
    > When I use netflix, I have a much better experience. If you're on Linux, you won't be able to stream at 1080p, let alone 4k. Netflix even went out of their way to disable workarounds that users developed.
    - recursive 7y ago
      1) I'm not on Linux. 2) I'd rather have the convenience of streaming at all than the best possible resolution. I don't know what the resolution of my TV is, but I highly doubt it's over 1080p, if that.
      - heavyset_go 7y ago
        Streaming above 720p also doesn't work via Firefox on any operating system.
        rubin55 7y ago
        Source?
        AnssiH 7y ago
        https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23931 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23931 > Mozilla Firefox up to 720p
        SturgeonsLaw 7y ago
        According to the test pattern videos I'm getting 1080p in Firefox on Windows
        Macha 7y ago
        They may not have the same DRM restrictions as actual content? It's not that Firefox is not technically capable of rendering the videos, it's that it doesn't give the DRM the control that Netflix and rightholders want to require in exchange.
  - shitlord 7y ago
    You can have a similar experience with a private tracker and a seedbox. The content is curated (no malware), there's a larger selection, the quality is sometimes higher, and peers generally have better connections. After you pick your torrent, it takes the seedbox a few seconds to download the content. Then you can stream your download using emby, vlc over http, or whatever you prefer.
  - gerdesj 7y ago
    "Last time I used piratebay, I saw a lot of porn" Why did you use piratebay unless that was your goal?
  - leppr 7y ago
    Some torrent clients support sequential downloading, which will be equivalent to streaming with most video formats. And obviously there's uBlock for the ads. DRM on streaming and BluRays made it so that any usage outside basic consumption on prescribed devices is better served by illegal means.
  - besieged 7y ago
    I don't live in Europe but I canceled my Netflix the minute I learned that Reed Hastings is taking advantage of the coronavirus situation to increase Netflix's bottom line by limiting streaming quality to everyone in Europe after one phone call with a French politician. There are plenty of torrent streaming and download clients that work just as well and are just as convenient as Netflix, without needing to rely on a central authority.
  - searchableguy 7y ago
    You can use webtorrent - https://webtorrent.io/ https://webtorrent.io/
    - cerberusss 7y ago
      I don't know this technology, but I'd really recommend using a VPN that provides a SOCKS proxy for your Bittorrent connections. Otherwise you're just announcing your IP address related to your torrent activities to the whole world.
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    Netflix doesn’t have most stuff.
- neodymiumphish 7y ago
  Wait til you see how amazing the experience can be with Usenets...
  - leadingthenet 7y ago
    How do I get into using Usenet?
    - lordfrikk 7y ago
      You need: 1. Usenet provider (this allows you to download the links) and Usenet indexer (this allows you to search for content you want because files like movies usually have obfuscated filenames). Example of the former is Frugal Usenet, example of the latter is Drunken Slug (free-ish) or DogNZB (paid). One of the many things you need to watch out for with providers is retention, the length of time they keep the files so you can download them. In general, the older content you find on the indexer, the less likely it's still going to be available. The downloading itself can be done in an automated way (for example with Sonarr and the like) or kind-of manual with tools like SABnzbd.
      - leadingthenet 7y ago
        Thanks a lot!
- CobrastanJorji 7y ago
  Not absurd so much as a major reason why the piratebay exists.
Polylactic_acid 7y ago
So any user on Edge can be hardware fingerprinted easily? I can see why other browsers stay far away.
- MaxBarraclough 7y ago
  That's a good question. Is there anything to stop a disreputable advertiser/tracker hijacking the EME DRM scheme for tracking? The evercookie project doesn't appear to leverage EME, for what that's worth. https://samy.pl/evercookie/ https://samy.pl/evercookie/
matt-attack 7y ago
> one of Chrome's philosophies is that you should be able to wipe a Chrome install, reinstall Chrome, and have no trace that before/after are the same person. Why would that be their philosophy? It sounds like some kind of privacy-motivated idea which seems contrary to Google’s typical philosophy. Or is it more about portability?

tryptophan 7y ago

Its absurd that paying customers get a worse experience than just using the piratebay.

recursive 7y ago
Last time I used piratebay, I saw a lot of porn and malware/scam ads. I had to find and install a torrent client. Then I had to make sure I was downloading a movie that had enough seeders. And then I couldn't watch the movie until (and if) the download finished. When I use netflix, I have a much better experience.
- chii 7y ago
  You obviously haven't tried popcorntime.
  - mcdevilkiller 7y ago
    One of the best solutions out there.
  - jensvdh 7y ago
    Which is illegal.
    - oauea 7y ago
      And torrents (of copyrighted content) aren't? You're completely missing the point of this thread.
    - nmz 7y ago
      That's kind of the point, the illegal solution is better than the legal one.
  - crucialfelix 7y ago
    Used it once, cost me €840. With torrents you can get a film in minutes. With popcorn you are exposed the entire time you watch the film. In Germany they monitor peer connections and send a payment demanding an out of court settlement. After two years they escalate to a court appearance in a remote town. If you don't show, you lose and they turn it over to debt collection. But I have to say Birdman was a great film.
    - tjpnz 7y ago
      This is exactly why I use a VPN. Last thing anyone needs is to be inconvenienced by BS laws bought buy special interests.
- olyjohn 7y ago
  I know this is all anecdotal, but last time I used a torrent site, I found the movie immediately and it pulled the whole thing down in under 3 minutes. Could be that it was a newer movie and pretty popular. I do see a lot of older stuff that's not being seeded much anymore.
- heavyset_go 7y ago
  > When I use netflix, I have a much better experience. If you're on Linux, you won't be able to stream at 1080p, let alone 4k. Netflix even went out of their way to disable workarounds that users developed.
  - recursive 7y ago
    1) I'm not on Linux. 2) I'd rather have the convenience of streaming at all than the best possible resolution. I don't know what the resolution of my TV is, but I highly doubt it's over 1080p, if that.
    - heavyset_go 7y ago
      Streaming above 720p also doesn't work via Firefox on any operating system.
      - rubin55 7y ago
        Source?
        AnssiH 7y ago
        https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23931 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23931 > Mozilla Firefox up to 720p
      - SturgeonsLaw 7y ago
        According to the test pattern videos I'm getting 1080p in Firefox on Windows
        Macha 7y ago
        They may not have the same DRM restrictions as actual content? It's not that Firefox is not technically capable of rendering the videos, it's that it doesn't give the DRM the control that Netflix and rightholders want to require in exchange.
- shitlord 7y ago
  You can have a similar experience with a private tracker and a seedbox. The content is curated (no malware), there's a larger selection, the quality is sometimes higher, and peers generally have better connections. After you pick your torrent, it takes the seedbox a few seconds to download the content. Then you can stream your download using emby, vlc over http, or whatever you prefer.
- gerdesj 7y ago
  "Last time I used piratebay, I saw a lot of porn" Why did you use piratebay unless that was your goal?
- leppr 7y ago
  Some torrent clients support sequential downloading, which will be equivalent to streaming with most video formats. And obviously there's uBlock for the ads. DRM on streaming and BluRays made it so that any usage outside basic consumption on prescribed devices is better served by illegal means.
- besieged 7y ago
  I don't live in Europe but I canceled my Netflix the minute I learned that Reed Hastings is taking advantage of the coronavirus situation to increase Netflix's bottom line by limiting streaming quality to everyone in Europe after one phone call with a French politician. There are plenty of torrent streaming and download clients that work just as well and are just as convenient as Netflix, without needing to rely on a central authority.
- searchableguy 7y ago
  You can use webtorrent - https://webtorrent.io/ https://webtorrent.io/
  - cerberusss 7y ago
    I don't know this technology, but I'd really recommend using a VPN that provides a SOCKS proxy for your Bittorrent connections. Otherwise you're just announcing your IP address related to your torrent activities to the whole world.
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Netflix doesn’t have most stuff.
neodymiumphish 7y ago
Wait til you see how amazing the experience can be with Usenets...
- leadingthenet 7y ago
  How do I get into using Usenet?
  - lordfrikk 7y ago
    You need: 1. Usenet provider (this allows you to download the links) and Usenet indexer (this allows you to search for content you want because files like movies usually have obfuscated filenames). Example of the former is Frugal Usenet, example of the latter is Drunken Slug (free-ish) or DogNZB (paid). One of the many things you need to watch out for with providers is retention, the length of time they keep the files so you can download them. In general, the older content you find on the indexer, the less likely it's still going to be available. The downloading itself can be done in an automated way (for example with Sonarr and the like) or kind-of manual with tools like SABnzbd.
    - leadingthenet 7y ago
      Thanks a lot!
CobrastanJorji 7y ago
Not absurd so much as a major reason why the piratebay exists.

Polylactic_acid 7y ago

So any user on Edge can be hardware fingerprinted easily? I can see why other browsers stay far away.

MaxBarraclough 7y ago
That's a good question. Is there anything to stop a disreputable advertiser/tracker hijacking the EME DRM scheme for tracking? The evercookie project doesn't appear to leverage EME, for what that's worth. https://samy.pl/evercookie/ https://samy.pl/evercookie/

matt-attack 7y ago

> one of Chrome's philosophies is that you should be able to wipe a Chrome install, reinstall Chrome, and have no trace that before/after are the same person. Why would that be their philosophy? It sounds like some kind of privacy-motivated idea which seems contrary to Google’s typical philosophy. Or is it more about portability?