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Breathing and Exercise: Strength Training for Your Diaphragm (2018)
- wodenokoto 7y agoI don't see any guide or any real description of the benefit of training your diaphragm (other than taking deep breaths by pushing your stomach out. But how much? How often?)
- jshaqaw 7y agoI’ve been training diaphagm breathing as part of martial arts training for over a decade. Breathing is deeper and calmer and more powerful.
- gameswithgo 7y agoand then?
- jshaqaw 7y agoI think it leaves you physically stronger and mentally calmer. YMMV but it works for me.
- Hoasi 7y agoIt is like breathing more in sync with your center of gravity, it stabilizes you, which makes you calmer, may stimulate your digestive functions as well.
- jniedrauer 7y agoI did some quick googling and it seems like there's some preliminary research that indicates it might help you reduce stress[0]. But I wonder how this stacks up against going for a jog or riding a bike, which have a well established record of reducing stress, and have other benefits. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5455070/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5455070/
- jshaqaw 7y agoComplementary and synergistic. Why pick breath training or vigorous exercise when you can just do both?
- Hoasi 7y ago> Breathing is deeper and calmer and more powerful. Diaphragm breathing is also part of the training for classical flute players to breathe. It is how babies breathe naturally.
- gnud 7y agoI train my diaphragm for singing, not really for any other benefits. But I think taking long, deep breaths is great for calming down and finding focus if you're stressed out. Don't push your stomach out. Let the stomach be pushed out when you breathe in. There's a difference. The simplest way (I think) to find a 'deep'/connected breath, is to breathe slowly all the way out, making a 's' sound, until there is no more air left. Then, hold for about 4 seconds. Now just relax and let the body breathe in on its own.
- klondike_klive 7y agoFor some reason I find that my body doesn't seem to want to breathe in on its own. Like, I can't determine a comfortable point (and I've paid a lot of attention to this over my years in meditation) where my body seems to "take over" from my conscious control and decide to breathe in comfortably on its own. I've found that I hold my lungs empty for longer than is comfortable, to the point where breathing in causes a noticeable rise in heart rate. I'm mildly asthmatic, I'm sure that has something to do with it.
- whatshisface 7y agoThe only way to hand off control of your breathing to your subconscious is to do something that distracts your conscious mind. You can't focus on breathing and then say, "here you go, brain, handle it."
- AgentMatt 7y agoI don't think that's true. When I started breathing meditation, it felt like that for me: whenever I was aware of my breathing, I automatically switched to directly controlling the breath. As a result, my rhythm was off and I often became lightheaded and stopped. At some point you learn to separate action and observation: you can focus your attention on the breath, meaning the sensations associated with breathing (air flowing through your nostrils and over your upper lip, belly slowly moving), and still let your body control the breathing action automatically. In The Mind Illuminated, there is a comparison of this to catching a ball: instead of seeing the ball and trying to directly control your arm to catch it, you focus on your intention ("Catch the ball") and let your body simply act on (implement) this intention. The great thing is that while you practice this separation of action and observation using the breath, it will apply generally to your life. Very powerful for managing your emotions: instead of being your emotion when you become aware of it, and identifying with the urge to act on it, you learn to observe the emotion without that observation having direct effects on your actions. You can choose to act on it, or choose not to.
- agumonkey 7y agoI remember reading that diaphragm breathing helped inhaling more without changing pressure around the heart, unlike opening your chest fullÿ.
- amylene 7y agoBig belly breaths (when you fill up with air, then top it off, then top it off again) stimulate the vagus nerve, which for me is crucial in combatting my anxiety.
- blendo 7y agoSingers also do extensive breath/diaphragm exercises: https://www.musikalessons.com/blog/2016/10/vocal-exercises-for-singers/ https://www.musikalessons.com/blog/2016/10/vocal-exercises-f...
- analog31 7y agoI played the flute for a few years as a kid, and breathing was a big deal during my lessons.
- guru4consulting 7y agoPranayanama, the ancient breathing technique practiced by yogis, focuses on various types breathing exercises including Diaphragmatic Breathing.. it is explained in Adham Pranayanama.
- djtriptych 7y agoAnother modern (but still technical) treatment is Light on Pranayama by B.K.S. Iyengar.
- stevage 7y ago>From an early age, you were likely taught to breathe with your upper chest. Wait, what? People are taught how to breathe? Is this really a thing?
- dragonsh 7y agoNo it isn’t true most kids in India are taught to breathe through stomach not chest. Watch any lessons in pranayama you will know it’s part of daily routine taught to many Indians and now most yoga practitioners learn it.
- elliotec 7y agoDefinitely new to me.
- rmdashrfstar 7y agoGym class as a kid? Sports teams during high school (Running, Wrestling, Soccer, Football, Baseball, Lacrosse, etc)? Meditation practice?
- TheAdamAndChe 7y agoCartoons always show chest breathing.
- ksaj 7y agoI was taught that we learned bad breathing technique through learning how to speak. I don't really know how accurate that is, but non-speaking babies do proper breathing, and speaking age children no longer do for the most part, so there is correlation at the very least. It's anecdotal at best, but I didn't see anyone mentioning the speech aspect.
- bonoboTP 7y agoHaven't heard about it. I breathe with the "proper method" instinctively and never knew this was even a thing. Perhaps it's something specific to American culture.
- nradov 7y ago
- darod 7y agoso where's the guide?
- Animats 7y agoExactly. There's no how-to guide there. It's mostly an ad. Good idea, though. Search for "How to Breathe"; there are some good sources. Especially important if you're on lockdown and moving less than usual.
- mannykannot 7y agoIt took a bizzare turn with the sentence beginning "Focus on the foot and ankle muscles..."
- jerzyt 7y agoI couldn't find anything either. Didn't expect click bait from Penn State.
- crispweed 7y agoRight, this seems like an interesting subject, but not a lot of information there. Can anyone suggest better sources? Any comments on the following: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22662071 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22662071
- ninenines 7y agoLot of people tend to have respiratory failure before situation gets worrisome and breath exercises are a definite way to help your body do what a ventilator does In yoga asanas, there are few breathing exercises that existed in ancient India and I myself can attest to it that I was able to overcome lot of allergies practising it, Here is a resource to follow along. https://youtu.be/iUKjuni-6l8 https://youtu.be/iUKjuni-6l8 starts at 9 mins and goes on for 15 mins or so And yes everyone breathes the wrong way, we pull in stomach when inhaling which is supposed to be otherway round, I know it's surprising to hear that we are breathing wrong. if you want the proof just notice a child breathing that's the most natural form of breathing If you are looking for keywords to look up, the are anuloma viloma & kapalabathi. Stay safe, stay healthy.
- djtriptych 7y agoI upvoted. HN hates comments like this but I've also had similar experiences. Asthmatic as a kid, high blood pressure in my 20s. All of that disappeared.
- rusk 7y ago> HN hates comments like this Surprised you haven't got the old "anecdata is no data" response yet …
- rimliu 7y agopost hoc, ergo propter hoc.
- djtriptych 7y agoyeah working out muscles makes them stronger. Must be a myth.
- rimliu 7y agoIt was about asthma and hbp, not some stronger muscles.
- ubercow13 7y agoI am guessing this is being posted in relation to the virus. Is this likely to be at all helpful? Is having a strong diaphragm useful when your lungs are filled with fluid?
- djtriptych 7y agoIt helps to oxygenate your body, which is (I'm guessing) pretty helpful if you're infected and are ever short of breath. Also these are generally exercises one can do at home.
- randycupertino 7y agoIn respiratory therapy school we were taught some breathing exercises to teach patients who were graduating after being on a vent, had lung surgery following cancer, COPD and/or other pulmonary issues. Some of the trainers like the inspiratory and expiatory trainers have benefits to non-compromised patients - some athletes use them for training in sports like swimming and basketball. Maybe an MD will chime in, however in case not imo the diaphragmatic training is only beneficial for singers and yogis and others who need to do large diaphram style breaths. Most people will go back to their normal style of breathing even if they're trained and practice diaphragmatic breathing after they're done concentrating. If I had to recommend one thing to buy for a regular person to use, it would probably be a really simple inspiratory/expiratory trainer. Basically you inhale and blow through a hole and it strengthens your lungs. This one is low tech and bombproof, cheap, easy to disinfect and used a lot in the field: http://www.medi-careequipment.com/Catalog/Product/26832/Pflex-Inspiratory-Muscle-Trainer http://www.medi-careequipment.com/Catalog/Product/26832/Pfle... https://www.respiratorytherapyzone.com/best-breathing-exerciser-trainers/ https://www.respiratorytherapyzone.com/best-breathing-exerci...
- TheBlerch 7y agoThanks for posting. I’ve done diaphragm breathing exercises for sports training and meditation. How does using these inspiratory/expiratory devices strengthen the lungs? Isn’t the action just strengthening primarily the diaphragm and some chest muscles used in breathing? How many minutes training per day would you recommend for healthy people? And how much does the Pflex sell for? Site makes you request to order and collects a lot of info.
- jacquesm 7y agoGo play a wind instrument. Saxophone, Trumpet, Flute. Breath control is very important. As it is for singers.
- macintux 7y agoI played brass instruments for about 8 years in school; even playing the tuba didn't really help me with breath control. I was lazy and apathetic, so the fault was mine, but it's just worth noting that while it may be helpful it's not sufficient.
- nateburke 7y agoI had pneumonia when I was 14 (weakened immune system after growing 6 inches in 8 months...) and the doctor prescribed breathing exercises which were very helpful. There was of course a ton of ABX as well as inhaled steroids, but after all of that, the breathing exercises were what helped to restore me to normal. (The Prednisone actually did a lot of harm, don't go off it without a taper!)
- nradov 7y agoIs there any evidence that fast growth rates cause weakened immune systems? That seems highly improbable. Lots of people get pneumonia.
- aggie 7y agoI wonder if this is trending because people figure you might be able to strengthen your diaphragm as a precautionary measure in case of contracting COVID-19. Anyway, if anyone is interested in a practical application from a scholarly source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2971640/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2971640/
- AlexCoventry 7y agoI started jogging recently for exactly this reason. (Usually, I just walk.)
- Cthulhu_ 7y agoProbably is; mind you, being in good health (respiratory and overall) will make it easier on both you and the medical system if you do contract it.
- sriram_malhar 7y agoI wanted to improve my presentation skills. I felt my voice was too nasal and thin, I spoke too fast, and emphasised too many words. So I approached a voice training coach. It seems everything -- from delivery, pauses, speed of delivery to sore throats -- could be improved if one could pay attention to proper breath control, and diaphragmatic breathing. I can certainly attest to that.
- WalterBright 7y agoI went looking for a voice coach. All I could find were singing coaches and autistic speech therapy ones. Nobody who could coach me at giving presentations. How did you find yours?
- alialghamdi 7y agoI didn't take courses, but as far as I know proper breathing techniques are also taught by singing coaches, if that's what you are looking for.
- WalterBright 7y agoI was looking for coaching to enunciate clearly.
- thomasrognon 7y agoI'm interested in this also. Would love to hear if you find something/someone good.
- sriram_malhar 7y agoYou could look for coaches who train actors AND singers. But my coach trains singers primarily, and it seems to me that the techniques are the same. I wanted to work on my enunciation as well, in addition to loudness, cadence, nasality etc. My speaking style is staccato, and I emphasise too many words. That she corrected by telling me to read from a fully prepared script if I could help it, which is useful for recordings in these times! That got rid of the staccato, because my low-bitrate brain was freed from having to figure out what clever thing to say next :) Then to work on the cadence, I had to underline at most two words per line, which would most effectively deliver the import of that line. Finally, breath control. "Speaking from the diaphragm" is a real thing. There's a daily regimen of vocalization and breathing exercises that I do. My neighbors look at me oddly. But these exercises do help. Good breath control allows you to deliver a long line, with appropriate pauses and cadence, without feeling your tank is going to empty soon.
- anirudhsingh 7y agoHaving a strong diaphragm and good lung capacity is important for being healthy. Proper intake of oxygen can work wonders for your mind and improve efficiency by a lot. Stay safe everyone!
- rak 7y agoArt of Manliness did a nice piece on this with an interview with Dr. Vranich: https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/how-to-breathe/ https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/how-to-breathe/ This link contains some actual guidance.
- truth_be_told 7y agoHelpful, direct and to-the-point article/guidance using simple language. Thanks for the link.
- celnardur 7y agoThis reminds me of some of the exercises I did during marching band and Drum Corps. We were taught, like the article says, to breathe by expanding the abs and then use the abs and diaphragm to push the air out through the instrument. In both, we used breathing gym techniques developed by Sam Pilafian and Patrick Sheridan. Here's a video of them demonstrating some of the exercises we did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEz0ku-oXM4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEz0ku-oXM4 These exercises definitely helped me prepare my lungs for the stress of what is essentially running and playing a brass instrument at the same time for ten minutes. Even though they are meant for Marching Band and Drum Corps, I would still recommend breathing gym for anyone who wants to be a stronger breather.
- billfruit 7y agoI wonder if learning to play a woodwind instrument like the recorder or melodica is good exercise for lungs and diaphragm.
- bobowzki 7y agoThe best way to increase your cardiovascular capacity, and boost your immune system at the same time, is aerobic exercise "cardio". I'm an anesthesiologist/intensivist and this is how I'm preparing.
- tomerbd 7y agoCan someone summarize what's the best technique for breathing well? Something everyone can do daily and improve? I read the article (I think) seen no guide there.
- TriNetra 7y agoI just mentioned the same here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22661875 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22661875
- dcolkitt 7y agoAnybody interested in this might look into trying out the didgeridoo. I got one to help reduce snoring, and can attest that regular practice definitely strengthens the diaphragm and pharyngeal muscles. Plus it's pretty fun.
- verytrivial 7y agoIf you haven't already, start jogging/running. Unless you are in a super-dense city it's easy to meet isolation requirements. Start jogging at the start of each 5 (or 2) minute boundary, jog until you're too puffed, then walk until next boundary. Repeat until 20, 30 or 45 minutes is up. Done. Then repeat every day or other day until you are jogging non-stop. Congratulations, you're now a runner and your lungs are now unavoidably stronger. Don't bother with stretching rituals unless you have extra time to burn -- they don't really make a difference versus simply running within your current comfort zone. Half of the running biz is a meditation on the state of your body during and between runs (the other half is scheduling, and that's aaaaall different now.) Also, if you have 'gunky lungs' (either standard cold/flu or COVID-19) wait until you are mostly gunk-free before running!
- lm28469 7y ago> your lungs are now unavoidably stronger. Are there any long term studies about the health effects of running in polluted cities ?
- ptsneves 7y agoI remember a paper that found that its worse to run near roads than to run at all, with huge amounts of absorption of contaminants into the body. Contaminants being "recorded" in the runner's hair. Out of the blue I found this paper finding a relationship between worse performance and pollution in marathons.[1] [1] https://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/79473/1/MPRA_paper_79473.pdf https://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/79473/1/MPRA_paper_79473.pdf
- ahpearce 7y agoThat study was done in China which is pretty notorious for its air quality. Probably best not to run outside when the AQI is high though. https://airnow.gov/ https://airnow.gov/
- blaser-waffle 7y agoAnecdotally I noticed a difference when running next to big, busy roads in Northern VA vs. running next to lakes (or even the same busy roads later at night when traffic was negligible). Couldn't go as hard, didn't feel like I was making as many improvements to speed/time/health, etc.
- DrAwdeOccarim 7y agoI was intrigued by this report last year (http://www.sci-news.com/medicine/inspiratory-muscle-strength-training-blood-pressure-brain-07077.html http://www.sci-news.com/medicine/inspiratory-muscle-strength...) and did some research around the idea of Inspiratory Muscle Strength Training (IMST). Turns out there has been a bit of peer-reviewed work done recently around IMST and statistically significant reductions in blood pressure, especially in regard to obstructive sleep apnea treated with CPAP (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4863204/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4863204/). I went out and purchased the K3 that was used in the recent work showing 5 minutes of IMST training at 75% capacity reduced blood pressure by 10 points (https://www.powerbreathe.com/product-category/breathing-trainers/ https://www.powerbreathe.com/product-category/breathing-trai...). I've been doing it off and on for 6 months now, and I can attest that after 3 weeks of twice daily use, my blood pressure was reduced by at least 10 points. I've also noticed sleeping better with my CPAP. YMWV, but the peer reviewed science seems legit and I've personally benefited from it!
- throw1234651234 7y agoThank you very much for mentioning this. I have high blood pressure and wasn't going to read the article until I saw this.
- 11235813213455 7y agoVery interesting. I was already practising similar kind of respiratory exercises: you inhale-exhale deeply 20 times, then you empty your lungs and hold this state as long as you can (depending on your health condition, can be 20s or 2mins). It helps against nasal congestion along with the rest of body stretching of course
- CraneWorm 7y agoI almost hyperventilated myself before I got to the "hold your lungs empty" part; I should have known better than just to try it on a whim.
- samstave 7y agoI have done this breathing exercise for a long time.... though addmitedly, much less recently. T.Hanx for the reminder... I used to meditate an hour a day when I was in my 20s, and now, being in my 40s, I can measurably feel the difference of not meditating regularly. Its time to really get dedicated to it.
- brodouevencode 7y agoI'm surprised no one has brought up box breathing (aka four square breathing) yet. https://www.livestrong.com/article/74944-box-breathing-technique/ https://www.livestrong.com/article/74944-box-breathing-techn... Short version: breathe in deep belly breaths for four seconds, hold for four seconds, breathe out for four seconds, hold for four seconds. Do this is a quiet and dark room and it helps with stress, anxiety, etc. I got into it when Joe Defranco mentioned a progressive version of this on his podcast: breathe in for one second, hold for one, breathe out for one, hold for one. Then breathe in for two seconds, hold for two, breathe out for two, hold for two. Then breathe in for three seconds, hold for three, breathe out for three, hold for three. So on and so forth. Most people can get to six seconds, but not much more past that. This progression technique has helped with my diaphragm strength and breath-bracing (I do a lot of heavy weight training).
- kelvin0 7y agoOK, so what's the exercise? "To do this, you’ll need to control your diaphragm by using your abdominal muscles to press your abdomen forward, allowing your diaphragm to flex downward." Then the article goes into stretching ...