5 ms·

- If you tell the public that masks are great protection, and the public can't find then to buy, that is a huge source of unrest. - The messaging (in Spain but

by Jare 7y ago

- If you tell the public that masks are great protection, and the public can't find then to buy, that is a huge source of unrest. - The messaging (in Spain but looks similar everywhere) has been that you should wear one if you are sick or, more importantly here, if you are at risk. This is a clear indication that they do help protect against being infected. This should have prevented everyone from harassing anyone wearing one ("they must be a risk group"). The fact that people did that is indication that people are not acting responsibly. I personally hate being told something that is patently false, but I totally understand that, collectively, we need to be lied to for our own protection, because collectively we become a bunch of idiots.

MiroF 7y ago
> I personally hate being told something that is patently false, but I totally understand that, collectively, we need to be lied to for our own protection, because collectively we become a bunch of idiots. Yep, I understand this. I've also noticed recent emphasis on the danger of the virus to young people (like this somewhat misleading NYT article [1], although I just noticed that they recently updated it), I suspect because they want young people to stay home. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/health/coronavirus-young-people.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/health/coronavirus-young-...
- acqq 7y ago
  Young people aren't automatically immune: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11226440/three-junior-doctors-aged-30-struck-down-by-coronavirus-in-the-same-hospital/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11226440/three-junior-doctors-... No sane medical person would connect three 30-years doctors to the breathing machines ("ventilators") unless they actually had to be connected to them: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/ventilators-do-work-does-feel-like-one/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/ventilators-... And the "invasive" ones (see the picture) are the last chance for people to survive, but it's best not to come that far: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-8131947/Engineering-giants-race-build-20-000-new-medical-ventilators.html https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-8131947/Eng... That's why it's in the interest of everybody for the hospitals to remain functional and that the current speed of growth gets at least significantly reduced. That's why "the curve" has to be "spread."
- takeda 7y ago
  Today a person aged 27 died in Poland from coronavirus.
  - MiroF 7y ago
    Yes, there are also over 300k confirmed cases of coronavirus worldwide. I'm not suggesting that the young should not worry (indeed, it's something like 10x deadlier than the flu), but suggestions that young people are disproportionately in danger (as the original NYT article did) are actively misleading.
catalogia 7y ago
If people are collectively idiots, then telling 'white' lies like this only throws fuel on the fire by eroding what little trust people have in genuine authorities/experts. Without trust in those authorities/experts, the 'idiot' collective masses will behave even stupider.
- Jare 7y ago
  It's my impression that at this point in time, eroding trust in a targeted way is very easy, and there's plenty of people doing it, out of partisanship, greed, or even plain stupidity. The collective "we" have allowed trust in genuine experts to be low and brittle. So, it makes sense for experts to put little value in trying to preserve it, when trying to balance the value of other courses of action. It sucks, but in their shoes I would do the same.
susanhi 7y ago
“You should wear one if you are sick” Asymptomatic carriers are showing as a large contributor of spread. We should have a mandate for masks for everyone (since we don’t know who is a carrier or not) and government should contract manufacturers to ramp production ASAP to meet the demand. China and South Korea has ramped productions and is allocating 2 masks per week per resident. US has 330 million people. 2 per person is 660 million face masks. China is currently producing 200 millions masks a day. If we ramp production to even half of that, 100 million masks a day, we can have 2 masks for everyone in less than a week.
- takeda 7y ago
  There was an act passed (I don't remeber its name, but it was meant for situations like this) that allows government to force factories to produce needed materials. Yet government refused to use it, they refuse to invoke stay in place in remaining states. They blocked states from doing testing, bidding against states for supplies and cherry on top DOJ secretly asked if they can suspend constitutional rights to allow holding people in cells for unspecified time among other things. WTF, it's like they want this pandemic to be as bad as possible. We already can see most countries working and flattening the infection curve, yet US is still growing exponentially. We are now #3 and looks like we will be #1 (surpassing China and Italy) before March ends.
  - Consultant32452 7y ago
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/03/18/coronavirus-what-defense-production-act-trump-has-invoked/2865598001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/03/18/coro... Trump has invoked exactly the act you're referring to. I'm not interested in any debate, just wanted to let you know it has been done.
    - takeda 7y ago
      My bad, last time I heard an expert talking about it that the act was created exactly for this kind of event and Trump was resisting invoking it to not affect private companies. I'm glad he changed his mind. Still, I think he should stay at home in other states. LA county seems to assume it is beyond containment and now only tests people if that would affect the treatment.
wutbrodo 7y ago
> I totally understand that, collectively, we need to be lied to for our own protection, because collectively we become a bunch of idiots. This is a tall order in the modern informational environment. There are enough honest people out there that the truth will filter out, first to people who think critically and then as a meme to be swallowed uncritically by the masses. Then you just end up further damaging the credibility of official sources at a time when their credibility is important.
- lopmotr 7y ago
  People don't work that way. Social status is always more important than truth. For socially suppressed knowledge, individuals can find it out for themselves if they want, but they can't share it or they'll be ostracized for heresy. So most people won't want to even find out when even expressing curiosity is an offence and they'll work to punish those who do share it because that helps them to be accepted by the majority.

by Jare 7y ago

MiroF 7y ago

> I personally hate being told something that is patently false, but I totally understand that, collectively, we need to be lied to for our own protection, because collectively we become a bunch of idiots. Yep, I understand this. I've also noticed recent emphasis on the danger of the virus to young people (like this somewhat misleading NYT article [1], although I just noticed that they recently updated it), I suspect because they want young people to stay home. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/health/coronavirus-young-people.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/health/coronavirus-young-...

acqq 7y ago
Young people aren't automatically immune: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11226440/three-junior-doctors-aged-30-struck-down-by-coronavirus-in-the-same-hospital/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11226440/three-junior-doctors-... No sane medical person would connect three 30-years doctors to the breathing machines ("ventilators") unless they actually had to be connected to them: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/ventilators-do-work-does-feel-like-one/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/ventilators-... And the "invasive" ones (see the picture) are the last chance for people to survive, but it's best not to come that far: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-8131947/Engineering-giants-race-build-20-000-new-medical-ventilators.html https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-8131947/Eng... That's why it's in the interest of everybody for the hospitals to remain functional and that the current speed of growth gets at least significantly reduced. That's why "the curve" has to be "spread."
takeda 7y ago
Today a person aged 27 died in Poland from coronavirus.
- MiroF 7y ago
  Yes, there are also over 300k confirmed cases of coronavirus worldwide. I'm not suggesting that the young should not worry (indeed, it's something like 10x deadlier than the flu), but suggestions that young people are disproportionately in danger (as the original NYT article did) are actively misleading.

catalogia 7y ago

If people are collectively idiots, then telling 'white' lies like this only throws fuel on the fire by eroding what little trust people have in genuine authorities/experts. Without trust in those authorities/experts, the 'idiot' collective masses will behave even stupider.

Jare 7y ago
It's my impression that at this point in time, eroding trust in a targeted way is very easy, and there's plenty of people doing it, out of partisanship, greed, or even plain stupidity. The collective "we" have allowed trust in genuine experts to be low and brittle. So, it makes sense for experts to put little value in trying to preserve it, when trying to balance the value of other courses of action. It sucks, but in their shoes I would do the same.

susanhi 7y ago

“You should wear one if you are sick” Asymptomatic carriers are showing as a large contributor of spread. We should have a mandate for masks for everyone (since we don’t know who is a carrier or not) and government should contract manufacturers to ramp production ASAP to meet the demand. China and South Korea has ramped productions and is allocating 2 masks per week per resident. US has 330 million people. 2 per person is 660 million face masks. China is currently producing 200 millions masks a day. If we ramp production to even half of that, 100 million masks a day, we can have 2 masks for everyone in less than a week.

takeda 7y ago
There was an act passed (I don't remeber its name, but it was meant for situations like this) that allows government to force factories to produce needed materials. Yet government refused to use it, they refuse to invoke stay in place in remaining states. They blocked states from doing testing, bidding against states for supplies and cherry on top DOJ secretly asked if they can suspend constitutional rights to allow holding people in cells for unspecified time among other things. WTF, it's like they want this pandemic to be as bad as possible. We already can see most countries working and flattening the infection curve, yet US is still growing exponentially. We are now #3 and looks like we will be #1 (surpassing China and Italy) before March ends.
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/03/18/coronavirus-what-defense-production-act-trump-has-invoked/2865598001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/03/18/coro... Trump has invoked exactly the act you're referring to. I'm not interested in any debate, just wanted to let you know it has been done.
  - takeda 7y ago
    My bad, last time I heard an expert talking about it that the act was created exactly for this kind of event and Trump was resisting invoking it to not affect private companies. I'm glad he changed his mind. Still, I think he should stay at home in other states. LA county seems to assume it is beyond containment and now only tests people if that would affect the treatment.

wutbrodo 7y ago

> I totally understand that, collectively, we need to be lied to for our own protection, because collectively we become a bunch of idiots. This is a tall order in the modern informational environment. There are enough honest people out there that the truth will filter out, first to people who think critically and then as a meme to be swallowed uncritically by the masses. Then you just end up further damaging the credibility of official sources at a time when their credibility is important.

lopmotr 7y ago
People don't work that way. Social status is always more important than truth. For socially suppressed knowledge, individuals can find it out for themselves if they want, but they can't share it or they'll be ostracized for heresy. So most people won't want to even find out when even expressing curiosity is an offence and they'll work to punish those who do share it because that helps them to be accepted by the majority.