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New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services
- ddoolin 7y agoI'm glad that the favorite son could do the right thing for the state of NY, particularly when their positive cases are exploding.
- mochomocha 7y ago"Better late than never" stays true, but when you're fighting against an invisible enemy (because of little testing) that invades exponentially quickly, "late" will unfortunately have a high human lives cost associated to it.
- ahoy 7y agoCuomo loves half-measures and taking credit for not doing much of anything. There's no force of law behind this order. Earlier this week he announced "mortgage relief," but its means-tested and difficult to actually navigate. It won't help. A year or 2 ago he rolled out his "free college for every new yorker" plan. It benefits about 10% of the population. Cuomo's only skill is talking a big game. He's exactly as bad as most other neolibs.
- codyb 7y ago10% of the population of NYS is 2 million people. It may be falsely advertised if it was claimed as “free college for every New Yorker” but I’m hard pressed to understand why people who support things like tuition free college programs get so angry about steps in that direction. Even if it’s only 10% of that 2 million people that actually need to go college it’s still 200,000 Americans that are better off than they were before. And didn’t NY’s legislature not turn blue until November of 2019? I may be wrong, but if helping hundreds of thousands of low income Americans get access to higher education means your only skill is “talking a big game” and makes you a “bad neolib” I’m not sure that’s a message I can get behind. I don’t know all of Cuomo’s policies or history, he may indeed be a bad Governor, but I really have trouble understand the people who shit on others for moving us in a positive direction because it’s not 100% of the way there yet.
- hkmurakami 7y agoAlas he is the reason it didn't come sooner in NYC https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ny-gov-cuomo-says-no-new-york-city-s-shelter-n1162911 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ny-gov-cuomo-says-no-ne...
- chadlavi 7y ago> Mass transit will remain operational and restaurants, food delivery and bank will remain in service. This kind of article would really benefit from a quick bulleted list at the top, I had to skim to get this essential info
- aqme28 7y agonyc.gov has a helpful list. https://esd.ny.gov/guidance-executive-order-2026 https://esd.ny.gov/guidance-executive-order-2026 I was worried, because I just dropped my clothes off at the laundromat.
- lonelappde 7y agoYou don't need clothes at home.
- ilamont 7y agoThere is currently no plan in place to penalize individuals for gathering socially Then people won't take the rules seriously. Lots of people in this country still don't believe or understand how much damage this virus can inflict.
- ryanmccullagh 7y agoLegally, does the state and federal goverment have the power to control the movement of people? Does the state have the power to control my movement from my own home to the end of the street for my daily walk?
- altcognito 7y agoThe answer to this question is always yes regardless of the government in dire circumstances. That's why there are some of these laws on the books for quarantine in the first place from 1918. That being said, it's a big scary step and there are lots of little steps likely to be taken before we get that far. You can see this in action in Italy.
- philwelch 7y agoYes, this is a long-recognized aspect of the states’ police power.
- nathanaldensr 7y agoOf course they have the power: they have the guns. That's not the real question; the real questions are 1) whether the populace will tolerate it, and how much; 2) whether the state's forces will willingly open fire on intolerant citizens; 3) whether the state chooses to use the power, whether legal or not.
- draw_down 7y agoThe first word in the post you're responding to is "legally". Obviously the state has guns. Come on!!
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- alephnan 7y agoIs there a non-paywalled link?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- SoylentOrange 7y agohttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-update.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/nyregion/coronavirus-new-...
- rdruxn 7y agoWhy are the subways still open? Seems like low hanging fruit to close those.
- dmreedy 7y agoMy guess would be because it's how a lot of essential workers get to work.
- DenisM 7y agoIt might be better for the state to close the subway and pay for Lyft for all essential workers. Creates jobs for the drivers, gets essential workers where they need to be, closes the major infection channel. The drivers would be required to wear surgical masks and wash the back seat of the car before each passenger.
- marcinzm 7y agoThe subway at low usage is probably less likely to get you infected than a Lyft. You can touch basically nothing and stay 4-6 feet away from other people. >The drivers would be required to wear surgical masks There's already a shortage of masks for hospitals. >wash the back seat of the car before each passenger. You think they'd actually do that rather than getting more fares? Also, don't forget to clean every control in the back, the door handles, the inside door handles, seat belts and probably the air filter.
- newen 7y agoYou expect untrained contract workers to follow procedures like that?
- DenisM 7y agoYes I do, under direct supervision of the next passenger.
- marcinzm 7y agoBecause without subways many of those essential services (including health care) stop functioning as workers can't get to their jobs. Then everything goes to hell as actual mass panic breaks out.
- mjmdavis 7y agoWhy does the guidance linked from the article here: https://esd.ny.gov/guidance-executive-order-2026 https://esd.ny.gov/guidance-executive-order-2026 mention a 75% reduction and the actual order linked from there: https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/no-2026-continuing-temporary-suspension-and-modification-laws-relating-disaster-emergency https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/no-2026-continuing-temporar... mention 50%? Are they updating the order minute to minute?
- CapriciousCptl 7y ago> Are they updating the order minute to minute? Yes. That was 2 days ago. It's a fluid, uncertain situation.
- bdefore 7y agoAnd is now 100%
- SoylentOrange 7y agoQuote from NYTimes: > For days, Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York City has pushed for a “shelter in place” order and the governor has repeatedly dismissed the idea, saying he would not quarantine New Yorkers in their homes. He also spoke on a popular podcast earlier this week about DEFINITELY NOT taking this kind of action
- BoiledCabbage 7y agoThe side effects of exponential growth. It changes minds quickly.
- 40four 7y agoI think the growth is a result of a focused effort to ramp up testing. Meanwhile if we are to have any confidence in the numbers (we probably shouldn't), according to the John's Hopkins counts, New York state currently has a surprisingly low CFR. 38 deaths / 5715 cases = 0.7% CFR
- CydeWeys 7y agoMost of those cases happened recently enough for the people not to have died from them yet.
- BoiledCabbage 7y agoIt's both. Ramping up testing which is giving a view into the impact of the previously underestimated exponential growth. The low CFR rate is simply time. It takes roughly 3 weeks from infection to death. Meaning deaths should be compared with count of infections 2-3 weeks ago to calculate CFR. Separately, there likely were a number more than died from it previously that didn't get testing because testing was so hard to come by (and the scope of the spread was not yet understood). If NYC hospitals get overwhelmed like they are possibly on pace to, don't be shocked if you see CFR rise up to 4-5%. Especially as growth in new cases no longer out strip existing (which suppresses naively calculated CFR).
- neuronexmachina 7y ago
- jakear 7y agoSo that’s CA and NY both with shelter in place. Strange that WA hasn’t implemented it yet.
- williw 7y agoGive it time
- stronglikedan 7y agoThis seems to be a reaction to people not doing it on their own sufficiently enough, like what happened in Italy. Perhaps Washingtonians are taking the recommendations more seriously, so they don't require an official mandate. That decision can't be a light one, and I don't envy those that have to make it.
- docbrown 7y agoThere is no law enforcement action being taken for the NY or CA order. They’re relying on “social-pressure” to keep people inside.
- CydeWeys 7y agoI've seen videos of NYPD going in and telling people in restaurants to clear out (from days ago). I wouldn't be surprised to see NYPD telling people to clear out for this too.
- CydeWeys 7y agoAdding onto this, people are indeed being arrested and charged by the NYPD for disorderly conduct and failing to disperse: https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-state-pulls-liquor-licence-of-restaurant-20200320-eyu7qlo5rndodpi3snfdx5bkzi-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-state... More broadly, if you live in NYC and know the NYPD, then of course they're going to respond in this manner when such orders come out. When they have authority, they use it.
- tyingq 7y agoDo they have a definition of what constitutes non-essential?
- brightball 7y agoUsually defined by each company for each position.
- emddudley 7y agoYes, the order has a specific list. EDIT: Here is the order. https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/no-2026-continuing-temporary-suspension-and-modification-laws-relating-disaster-emergency https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/no-2026-continuing-temporar... > Any essential business or entity providing essential services or functions shall not be subject to the in-person restrictions. This includes essential health care operations including research and laboratory services; essential infrastructure including utilities, telecommunication, airports and transportation infrastructure; essential manufacturing, including food processing and pharmaceuticals; essential retail including grocery stores and pharmacies; essential services including trash collection, mail, and shipping services; news media; banks and related financial institutions; providers of basic necessities to economically disadvantaged populations; construction; vendors of essential services necessary to maintain the safety, sanitation and essential operations of residences or other essential businesses; vendors that provide essential services or products, including logistics and technology support, child care and services needed to ensure the continuing operation of government agencies and provide for the health, safety and welfare of the public;
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- jrockway 7y agoI watched the press conference and he said that they'd have a list later this afternoon. Food delivery is essential. One of the reporters asked if IT support (actually Best Buy's "Geek Squad") was essential, and he said he didn't know. My impression is that "essential" is very liberal right now.
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- Whut 7y agoI feel like we should just do this nation wide.
- TheAdamAndChe 7y agoUSA is huge, and the virus is hitting different areas with different intensities. Its spread is heavily impacted by population density and rates of random social encounters. A Nationwide lockdown might make sense if the goal was to snuff the infection out, but as of now the goal is to lower the peak of the curve. If you lock down too early, you extend the infection to a length of time that makes the lockdown impossible.
- vehementi 7y ago> If you lock down too early, you extend the infection to a length of time that makes the lockdown impossible. Can you elaborate on what you mean by that?
- syshum 7y agoThis virus will be with everyone for 18+ months, the point of the lockdown is allow the Health system to catch up If you lock down early you irreparably harm the local economy and simply delay a spike instead of "flattening the curve" unless you are willing to except a year long lock down, massive economic depression and the colapse of the US Dollar
- treyfitty 7y agoTo be clear, the governor unequivocally said this is not a shelter in place. It is merely language telling employers that they are to not have workers physically present. The governor also said there will not be any civil penalties for individuals that do not stay at home.
- mattnewton 7y agoI think this will open the door for NYC to fully "shelter in place" lockdown, however.
- nostromo 7y agoYeah, they're boiling the frog. Each incremental step is normalized over a few days, and then there's a new, stricter mandate.
- throwaway5752 7y agoUltimately, even if 60% of people are massively harmed or inconvenienced by the restrictions it is a life-and-death matter for healthcare workers. Viral load is a problem, and keeping down the infections will reduce patient interactions without adequate PPE and mistakes. It is indicative of a collective societal favor that we're asking nurses, PAs, and doctors to risk there lives for a preventable situation. The risk of a systemic failure to the healthcare system would be a catastrophe.
- s_dev 7y agoOr like Contagion "Nobody can know until everyone knows" -- especially with quarantines because if people think they have early info they will try to leave before it's established exacerbating the exact measures the quarantine is intended to invoke.
- mentat 7y agoExcept the virus is doubling over those days so completely ineffective.
- fiftyfifty 7y agoIt seems highly likely that the US is headed where the whole of Europe is now: over 100,000 positives, over 5,000 deaths. We waited too long for actions like this. It will take a month before we see a drop in cases and deaths
- vehementi 7y agoA month? Wouldn't it be more like 1-2 weeks?
- fiftyfifty 7y agoThe problem we are going to have in the US is some states are responding better than others. NY looks bad right now because they are testing a lot. States like Florida, Louisiana and Georgia are already in double digit deaths each and don't have the positive cases to account for them. Going forward the rate of deaths will be far more indicative of what's happening than just the positive cases and that is going to continue to climb for at least 4 more weeks. Will we see a ban on interstate travel? What happens when one state gets the outbreak under control while another state's cases are still increasing? I'm extremely doubtful that any one state in the US will see a significant slowdown in cases in the next 4 weeks. No European country has yet...
- fiftyfifty 7y agoItaly and Spain each had a record number of deaths today at 627 and 212 respectively. The next two weeks are going to be terrible in the US.
- dyingkneepad 7y agoWe get shocked when an airplane with 150-300 people falls: we spend months talking about it. Now we see multiple instances of these numbers daily: two airplanes in Italy, one in Spain, a small one in the US, but it still doesn't feel as terrifying as a real airplane crash to me. I'm not saying I'm denying COVID or that the deaths are not horrible, just that for some unknown reason airplane crashes still seem so much more horrible: I'm talking about feelings, not facts. I don't know. OTOH, thinking about the economic implications of this crisis prevents me from sleeping.
- Konack 7y agoSimilar article that covers the issue https://www.courthousenews.com/teetering-on-lockdown-cuomo-new-york-on-pause/ https://www.courthousenews.com/teetering-on-lockdown-cuomo-n...
- SilasX 7y agoThis submission and this one should merge: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22638396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22638396
- dang 7y agoDone. Thanks!
- quartzite 7y agoIt will be impossible for us to permanently stop the spread with half measures. As viral spread continues due to half hearted social distancing, when will we be able to return to normalcy? Given the characteristics of this virus even a few cases floating around seem to be enough to reignite contagion. So we persist in stasis for a month or a year with no end in sight while the economy begins to collapse, which will also destroy lives and lead to humanitarian disaster? And all of that on shoddy evidence which probably is not counting the true case fatality rate due to woeful ignorance of the total number of infected people? This article from a Stanford Professor makes the case that COVID-19 mortality is not as high as initial reports make it seem: https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-a... We also have potential treatments emerging that could alleviate much of the strain on the healthcare system. We need to make rational and strategic decisions here, not decisions based out of fear. Massive and systematic society wide testing is the first step, the second step is the bulk manufacture of demonstrated COVID-19 treatments. The third is ramping up hospital capacity. All of this is so that we can reopen society in a reasonable amount of time prepared to deal with the inevitable spread of this virus.
- redisman 7y agoThese current shutdowns are really just to buy some time for all the steps you talked about. Basically get a re-try and try to go for a more SK/Taiwan style approach.
- disgruntledphd2 7y agoYup. And all because people don't understand exponential growth.
- oat_bravo_nap 7y agoSouth Korea stopped the infection without "full measures."
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- y-c-o-m-b 7y agoAt this point wouldn't it be better to just implement a Chinese-style martial law lock-down? The damage to the economy is already here. Might as well shut things down for 3-4 weeks and slowly open up sections of a city. That seems better to me then dragging this thing out for 3 months or longer. I feel like these "stages" of lock-down are doing nothing but delaying the inevitable which will cause more damage in the long run.
- quartzite 7y agoExactly. All this talk of "flattening the curve" is counterproductive if the curve remains flattened right at capacity for an extended period of time, which is what these measures will cause, rather than spiking for a short period.
- r00fus 7y agoYeah, because a quick spike wouldn't have any outside effects at all. You sound as if you're ok with millions of people dying miserably. You think a long period of decreased economy is bad, the spike might cause outright panics and armed unrest. We can print dollars, we can't resurrect the dead.
- virmundi 7y agoWhy not make the death fast? The argument is for euthanasia not a poor life to slowly die.
- r00fus 7y agoIt's not "death fast", it's: 1) way more deaths and a complete congestion of medical services vs. 2) less deaths, manageable medical service and a period of painful stagnation for the economy. If you get critically sick or injured (not COVID19 related) and hospitals are overflowing, you will suffer when no one can see you because of COVID19 cases.
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- HocusLocus 7y agoI think it would be hilarious if the first reporter to ask a question asks, "Sir, what was that percentage of workforce reduction again?" and writes the number down on a pad meticulously. Then the next, "Are you sure it's not 101 or 98 or something like that?" "Sure I'm sure! And I mean everyone!" And the reporters keep asking for the percentage again, while groping for writing pads as if they are terrified they will not remember or transcribe it correctly.
- throwaway5752 7y agoThere is no doubt Cuomo should be the national point person for the response to the crisis based on his performance so far. He is independently working with regional manufacturing to retool to make critical medical PPE and ventilators, and has organized a regional coalition including CT, NJ, and PA. I have not agreed with him all the time, but his crisis management has been exemplary and he will have saved many lives in NY by the time this is done.
- dev1n 7y agoIt helps to be advised by one of the best people in healthcare too, Dr. Howard Zucker.
- throwaway5752 7y agoA big leadership quality is the ability to identify expertise and listen to it.
- tanilama 7y agoYeah, he seems to be on top of things, other than being dismissive at first, then drastic change course when meeting with criticism
- SN76477 7y agoI don't mind that someone was dismissive weeks ago. I know I was. Now, I have been inside for 5 days. I saw that it was turning serious.
- TrumpMyGuns 7y agoYet this is why people are crying about Trump, lmao!
- rightbyte 7y agoIt didn't hit me emotionally until the pasta and toilet paper was out of stock in the stores but I would easily have taken precautions way earlier if I had any power when it hit me "rationally" in late January. The response is just way too late. Exercises should have been done. The army hospital tent should already be in place, food delivery to homes should already be in place etc.
- yibg 7y agoSeems so piecemeal. We have models that work in parts of the world like Korea, Taiwan and Singapore. Is there any reason why the US and Europe can’t follow their model?
- heavyset_go 7y agoIt's an election year.
- therealdrag0 7y agoA lot of it might just be preparation. Not only "run-books" and hardware, but also wetware. I don't know for sure, but I'd guess those places have a lot more humans per case investigating-network-affects/supporting quarantine. US seems to just be working on getting hardware ramped up. I haven't heard anything about tracing case histories to quarantine contacts. My impression is that like Taiwan didn't even shut down schools. They just locked down boarders and aggressively quarantined the infected.
- yibg 7y agoThat’s my impression for Taiwan as well. Life there seems to be more or less normal and the virus also seems to be contained. The measures are focused on fast and pervasive testing, contact tracing and specific isolation rather than blanket social distancing. I’m not knowledgeable enough to say either way but is there a reason that model doesn’t work in the US or Europe?
- monocularvision 7y agoI recommend this episode of Advisory Opinions on the legal specifics around these sorts of actions in the US: https://overcast.fm/+V-MhulG34 https://overcast.fm/+V-MhulG34 The TLDR is that most of the general “police” power in the US sits in the hands of the States.
- yibg 7y agoBut surely testing, contact tracing etc as done in parts of Asia can be coordinated centrally.
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