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> That's ignoring the headache you're going to have after a night of drinking Karkov. typically from cutting the heads too shallow. ethanol's boiling point is

> That's ignoring the headache you're going to have after a night of drinking Karkov. typically from cutting the heads too shallow. ethanol's boiling point is 173ºF, where the alcohol that is giving you your headache is lower. cutting the heads (or lower evaporating alcohol) too shallow gives you more of that alcohol. now, as to taste, I disagree a little bit with the gp post in that enough complex sugars also make it out in that slurry if you're using a pot still (even triple distilling), or even using a reflux still, that there can be a marked taste difference between "neutral" spirits. source: I've made quite a lot of vodka (most of which has been turned into gin)

gunshai 7y ago
>source: I've made quite a lot of vodka (most of which has been turned into gin) My assumption here is because gin tastes good. :grin:
- jerrysievert 7y ago
  or, as some like to call it: flavored vodka
  - freehunter 7y ago
    Flavored vodka is a big business. Just wander down any liquor aisle.
  - guyzero 7y ago
    every single Seagrams product is just flavoured vodka - they all start as neutral spirits
    - jerrysievert 7y ago
      that actually didn't used to be the case: https://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/high-spirits-blog/mgp-ingredients-lawrenceburg/ https://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/high-spirits-blog/mgp-ing... their whiskey was world-class. shame they never sold any of it without blending it into their product. thankfully the distillery did after it was sold, and ended up being some amazing product.
  - gunshai 7y ago
    I mean ya I agree, my pedantic side couldn't help itself though. >(c) Class 3; gin. “Gin” is a product obtained by original distillation from mash, or by redistillation of distilled spirits, or by mixing neutral spirits, with or over juniper berries and other aromatics, or with or over extracts derived from infusions, percolations, or maceration of such materials, and includes mixtures of gin and neutral spirits. It shall derive its main characteristic flavor from juniper berries and be bottled at not less than 80° proof. Gin produced exclusively by original distillation or by redistillation may be further designated as “distilled”. “Dry gin” (London dry gin), “Geneva gin” (Hollands gin), and “Old Tom gin” (Tom gin) are types of gin known under such designations. >i) Class 9; ... flavored vodka, ... “flavored vodka,” ... vodka, to which have been added natural flavoring materials, with or without the addition of sugar, and bottled at not less than 60° proof. The name of the predominant flavor shall appear as a part of the designation. If the finished product contains more than 2 1/2 percent by volume of wine, the kinds and precentages by volume of wine must be stated as a part of the designation, except that a flavored brandy may contain an additional 12 1/2 percent by volume of wine, without label disclosure, if the additional wine is derived from the particular fruit corresponding to the labeled flavor of the product.
hutzlibu 7y ago
"typically from cutting the heads too shallow. ethanol's boiling point is 173ºF, where the alcohol that is giving you your headache is lower." Can you explain that a bit? I thought alcohol is ethanol. C2H6O. And headaches in bad stuff comes from bad distilling ethanol, so different (even dangerous) byproducts like methyl alcohol can be inside that make you feel bad.
- jerrysievert 7y ago
  > I thought alcohol is ethanol ethanol is an alcohol, but not all alcohol is ethanol. an apple is a pome, not all pome are apples. amyl (isobutyl carbinol: C5H12O) alcohol is also an alcohol, that has a boiling point of 131.6ºF - that means it comes in the heads (lower temperatures). methanol comes in at 148ºF. other alcohols come in the tails, but typically have more of an oily texture to them.
  - jcelerier 7y ago
    > an apple is a pome, not all pome are apples. coming from a language where "pomme" is the translation of "apple"... wat ?
    - mturmon 7y ago
      An analogy is a literary device, but not all literary devices are analogies.
      - erik_seaberg 7y ago
        A simile is like a metaphor.
    - klodolph 7y ago
      If you look up “pome” in an english dictionary, it’s a botanical term that refers to fruits such as apples and pears.
      - 7y ago
burmer 7y ago
I thought you had to use a column still to make vodka, and that if you use a pot still, it's basically (white) whiskey.
- jerrysievert 7y ago
  > I thought you had to use a column still to make vodka, and that if you use a pot still, it's basically (white) whiskey. a column, typically a reflux still, is generally what is used, yes. it provides a much higher alcohol concentration to be extracted in one single pass. at highest efficiency, you'll get 95% alcohol as a return. you can also make multiple (5-10) passes in a pot still to get the same purity, it's just nowhere near as efficient (because of the multiple runs).
auiya 7y ago
Is there any way to "fix" cheaper vodkas by holding it at the proper temp for sufficiently long enough? Or are they beyond salvageable by that point in the process?
- bryanbuckley 7y ago
  I've done double blind vodka tastings and some of the cheaper vodkas come out on top. e.g. Barton's is as good as top-shelf (that were in the tasting)
  - RussianCow 7y ago
    Anecdotally, I've found that vodkas made by smaller, local distilleries tend to be really good for the price. I'm assuming this is because vodka is generally not their core product, but they're making a pure, neutral spirit as a base for other things (e.g. gin) anyways, so they might as well bottle it and try to sell it. Since they're not spending excessive amounts of money trying to market their vodkas, they tend to be pretty cheap.
- tw04 7y ago
  I'd tell you to just buy Svedka if you want something cheap but quality. Haven't had it in years but I know we had at least one long cabin weekend and that was the drink of choice - pretty smooth and no headaches.
- RussianCow 7y ago
  I have heard of people putting cheap vodkas through a carbon filter (like Brita) a few times to improve smoothness. I haven't tried it myself, but I am skeptical, because if the fix is that easy then it seems like the producer would have done it. MythBusters did a double-blind taste test[0] in which only the "vodka expert" was able to correctly rank the samples, and they found that the chemical composition of the cheap vodka was the same before and after filtering. Based on that, I would say the answer is most likely "no" and you should spend a few more bucks. [0]: http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/04/episode_50_bullets_fired_up_vo.html http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/04/episode_50_bullets_fired_...
01100011 7y ago
Eh... you would expect more acetone and ethyl acetate I think. I'm guessing IPA and methanol might show up too, assuming you had any in the mash. The 'other alcohols' AFAIK, mostly show up in the tails. Those are the fun ones like butyl and pentyl alcohol, which have different subjective effects and may actually suppress a hangover. Let's be honest, ethanol gives you a hangover. Your body breaks it down into acetylaldehyde. Ethanol is a pretty shitty alcohol to use as an intoxicant. People have played around with making hangover-free alcohol from the higher alcohols over the years but it never went anywhere.
- trevyn 7y ago
  Why did it never go anywhere?
  - 01100011 7y ago
    Not sure. I can't find a link to it right now. There is 'alcosynth', but AFAICT that's something different. About 5-7 years ago I was really into this stuff but I stopped drinking a couple years ago and slowly forgot it all. There are a number of studies on fusel oils/heavier alcohols and hangovers if you want to google it. Tryptophol and the like are also interesting(yeast produce them under certain nutrient conditions).

gunshai 7y ago

>source: I've made quite a lot of vodka (most of which has been turned into gin) My assumption here is because gin tastes good. :grin:

jerrysievert 7y ago
or, as some like to call it: flavored vodka
- freehunter 7y ago
  Flavored vodka is a big business. Just wander down any liquor aisle.
- guyzero 7y ago
  every single Seagrams product is just flavoured vodka - they all start as neutral spirits
  - jerrysievert 7y ago
    that actually didn't used to be the case: https://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/high-spirits-blog/mgp-ingredients-lawrenceburg/ https://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/high-spirits-blog/mgp-ing... their whiskey was world-class. shame they never sold any of it without blending it into their product. thankfully the distillery did after it was sold, and ended up being some amazing product.
- gunshai 7y ago
  I mean ya I agree, my pedantic side couldn't help itself though. >(c) Class 3; gin. “Gin” is a product obtained by original distillation from mash, or by redistillation of distilled spirits, or by mixing neutral spirits, with or over juniper berries and other aromatics, or with or over extracts derived from infusions, percolations, or maceration of such materials, and includes mixtures of gin and neutral spirits. It shall derive its main characteristic flavor from juniper berries and be bottled at not less than 80° proof. Gin produced exclusively by original distillation or by redistillation may be further designated as “distilled”. “Dry gin” (London dry gin), “Geneva gin” (Hollands gin), and “Old Tom gin” (Tom gin) are types of gin known under such designations. >i) Class 9; ... flavored vodka, ... “flavored vodka,” ... vodka, to which have been added natural flavoring materials, with or without the addition of sugar, and bottled at not less than 60° proof. The name of the predominant flavor shall appear as a part of the designation. If the finished product contains more than 2 1/2 percent by volume of wine, the kinds and precentages by volume of wine must be stated as a part of the designation, except that a flavored brandy may contain an additional 12 1/2 percent by volume of wine, without label disclosure, if the additional wine is derived from the particular fruit corresponding to the labeled flavor of the product.

hutzlibu 7y ago

"typically from cutting the heads too shallow. ethanol's boiling point is 173ºF, where the alcohol that is giving you your headache is lower." Can you explain that a bit? I thought alcohol is ethanol. C2H6O. And headaches in bad stuff comes from bad distilling ethanol, so different (even dangerous) byproducts like methyl alcohol can be inside that make you feel bad.

jerrysievert 7y ago
> I thought alcohol is ethanol ethanol is an alcohol, but not all alcohol is ethanol. an apple is a pome, not all pome are apples. amyl (isobutyl carbinol: C5H12O) alcohol is also an alcohol, that has a boiling point of 131.6ºF - that means it comes in the heads (lower temperatures). methanol comes in at 148ºF. other alcohols come in the tails, but typically have more of an oily texture to them.
- jcelerier 7y ago
  > an apple is a pome, not all pome are apples. coming from a language where "pomme" is the translation of "apple"... wat ?
  - mturmon 7y ago
    An analogy is a literary device, but not all literary devices are analogies.
    - erik_seaberg 7y ago
      A simile is like a metaphor.
  - klodolph 7y ago
    If you look up “pome” in an english dictionary, it’s a botanical term that refers to fruits such as apples and pears.
    - 7y ago

burmer 7y ago

I thought you had to use a column still to make vodka, and that if you use a pot still, it's basically (white) whiskey.

jerrysievert 7y ago
> I thought you had to use a column still to make vodka, and that if you use a pot still, it's basically (white) whiskey. a column, typically a reflux still, is generally what is used, yes. it provides a much higher alcohol concentration to be extracted in one single pass. at highest efficiency, you'll get 95% alcohol as a return. you can also make multiple (5-10) passes in a pot still to get the same purity, it's just nowhere near as efficient (because of the multiple runs).

auiya 7y ago

Is there any way to "fix" cheaper vodkas by holding it at the proper temp for sufficiently long enough? Or are they beyond salvageable by that point in the process?

bryanbuckley 7y ago
I've done double blind vodka tastings and some of the cheaper vodkas come out on top. e.g. Barton's is as good as top-shelf (that were in the tasting)
- RussianCow 7y ago
  Anecdotally, I've found that vodkas made by smaller, local distilleries tend to be really good for the price. I'm assuming this is because vodka is generally not their core product, but they're making a pure, neutral spirit as a base for other things (e.g. gin) anyways, so they might as well bottle it and try to sell it. Since they're not spending excessive amounts of money trying to market their vodkas, they tend to be pretty cheap.
tw04 7y ago
I'd tell you to just buy Svedka if you want something cheap but quality. Haven't had it in years but I know we had at least one long cabin weekend and that was the drink of choice - pretty smooth and no headaches.
RussianCow 7y ago
I have heard of people putting cheap vodkas through a carbon filter (like Brita) a few times to improve smoothness. I haven't tried it myself, but I am skeptical, because if the fix is that easy then it seems like the producer would have done it. MythBusters did a double-blind taste test[0] in which only the "vodka expert" was able to correctly rank the samples, and they found that the chemical composition of the cheap vodka was the same before and after filtering. Based on that, I would say the answer is most likely "no" and you should spend a few more bucks. [0]: http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/04/episode_50_bullets_fired_up_vo.html http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/04/episode_50_bullets_fired_...

01100011 7y ago

Eh... you would expect more acetone and ethyl acetate I think. I'm guessing IPA and methanol might show up too, assuming you had any in the mash. The 'other alcohols' AFAIK, mostly show up in the tails. Those are the fun ones like butyl and pentyl alcohol, which have different subjective effects and may actually suppress a hangover. Let's be honest, ethanol gives you a hangover. Your body breaks it down into acetylaldehyde. Ethanol is a pretty shitty alcohol to use as an intoxicant. People have played around with making hangover-free alcohol from the higher alcohols over the years but it never went anywhere.

trevyn 7y ago
Why did it never go anywhere?
- 01100011 7y ago
  Not sure. I can't find a link to it right now. There is 'alcosynth', but AFAICT that's something different. About 5-7 years ago I was really into this stuff but I stopped drinking a couple years ago and slowly forgot it all. There are a number of studies on fusel oils/heavier alcohols and hangovers if you want to google it. Tryptophol and the like are also interesting(yeast produce them under certain nutrient conditions).