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I've been telling my friends for years, if you can successfully sell Vodka in today's market you can probably market any product. While there are "differences"

I've been telling my friends for years, if you can successfully sell Vodka in today's market you can probably market any product. While there are "differences", they all basically have to be the same by law and you probably can't reliably identify a difference in a double blinded application. "(1) “Vodka” is neutral spirits so distilled, or so treated after distillation with charcoal or other materials, as to be without distinctive character, aroma, taste, or color." https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/5.22 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/5.22 The differences are defined by a sliding scale of three elements, the "heads,hearts, and tails". https://www.diffordsguide.com/encyclopedia/198/bws/distillation-the-science-of-distillation https://www.diffordsguide.com/encyclopedia/198/bws/distillat...

fenwick67 7y ago
Anecdotal but, I feel like I can tell good vodka from cheap vodka easier than good wine from cheap wine.
- dEnigma 7y ago
  There shouldn't be a clear line between "good" and "cheap" for vodka as well as for wine. There is good stuff being sold quite cheaply and the other way around.
- anon73044 7y ago
  I'd put a $5 bottle that's been aerated against a $50 that hasn't any day of the week.
  - easytiger 7y ago
    Wine or vodka?
    - anon73044 7y ago
      Wine, should have specified. But, really, who wants aerated vodka?
tw04 7y ago
I'm sorry but if you can take a shot of Karkov vodka and a shot of Stoli and not tell the difference there is something very broken with your taste buds - regardless of what the law says. That's ignoring the headache you're going to have after a night of drinking Karkov. Source: I was poor in college and had the misfortune of dancing with Karkov on more than one occasion. For those of you who have never had the misfortune (it only comes in plastic bottles): https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/karkov+vodka+usa https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/karkov+vodka+usa
- jerrysievert 7y ago
  > That's ignoring the headache you're going to have after a night of drinking Karkov. typically from cutting the heads too shallow. ethanol's boiling point is 173ºF, where the alcohol that is giving you your headache is lower. cutting the heads (or lower evaporating alcohol) too shallow gives you more of that alcohol. now, as to taste, I disagree a little bit with the gp post in that enough complex sugars also make it out in that slurry if you're using a pot still (even triple distilling), or even using a reflux still, that there can be a marked taste difference between "neutral" spirits. source: I've made quite a lot of vodka (most of which has been turned into gin)
  - gunshai 7y ago
    >source: I've made quite a lot of vodka (most of which has been turned into gin) My assumption here is because gin tastes good. :grin:
    - jerrysievert 7y ago
      or, as some like to call it: flavored vodka
      - freehunter 7y ago
        Flavored vodka is a big business. Just wander down any liquor aisle.
      - 7y ago
binarycrusader 7y ago
This is not quite accurate. Planet Money recently did a special on this. The difference is indeed in the “tails”: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/02/23/588346329/episode-826-the-vodka-proof https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/02/23/588346329/epis... https://www.npr.org/transcripts/588345420 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/588345420 The short version is there are certain chemical compounds that some individuals can taste or have an allergic reaction to that might be present in those tails and there are measurable differences between distillers.
- gunshai 7y ago
  Ya I've listened to that. However you left out the portion of that where they dive into the route origins of high end vodka. And the part at the end where they compare high end to other vodkas. My ultimate point is in marketability, no vodka markets it self as "the one that gives you less of a hangover" nor do they even report the compound composition to inform of consumer choice.
  - shanecleveland 7y ago
    And there part where they rate the makeup of the high-end vodka as inferior to at least on of the other samples.
  - binarycrusader 7y ago
    I did not “leave anything out”. The argument was that Vodkas “all basically have to be the same by law and you probably can't reliably identify a difference in a double blinded application”. My sole point was that particular assertion wasn’t wholly accurate. The law effectively only applies to the first two parts (heads and hearts). The Vodka origins do not detract from my point at all. Yes many Vodkas have similar origins, but not all of them do, and so they can vary subtly in taste and effects because of the tails which do vary between different Vodkas as noted in the podcast. And yes a cheap Vodka can actually be rated higher from a subjective chemical composition standpoint. But note I never claimed that a “high end vodka” was better. I won’t claim to be one of those people but based on that report I think it’s plausible that some or many people can tell a difference. In short, there is a measurable chemical difference between some Vodkas and some test labs assert that those differences are where differences in taste and effects lie.
blakesterz 7y ago
Mythbusters did 3 episodes on Vodka that were pretty interesting. One of them was a blind taste test and they were able to tell the difference between vodkas they had filtered at different rates. I think they concluded that's the big different, expensive vodkas are filtered more.
ken 7y ago
I really don't think it's that hard to sell ethanol. This is a substance which is regularly purchased by 70% of the population. You don't even have to be "not worst". "Worst" often also means "cheapest", and there's lots of people who seek out the cheapest option. It's well known that wine with pictures of animals on the label outsell non-animal-labelled wines by more than 2:1. This is not a particularly sophisticated market on the low end.
- eu7durb3rjdur 7y ago
  It's hard to do without breaking the market because it's so cheap. Reagent grade ethanol is dirt cheap and for this reason also spiked with chemicals to penalize people who drink it. Without sin taxes and regulations that accomplish similar ends you could probably sell 1.75L of vodka for 2 dollars. But then poor people could afford to have fun in a non-puritan fashion and Americans hate that for some reason.

fenwick67 7y ago

Anecdotal but, I feel like I can tell good vodka from cheap vodka easier than good wine from cheap wine.

dEnigma 7y ago
There shouldn't be a clear line between "good" and "cheap" for vodka as well as for wine. There is good stuff being sold quite cheaply and the other way around.
anon73044 7y ago
I'd put a $5 bottle that's been aerated against a $50 that hasn't any day of the week.
- easytiger 7y ago
  Wine or vodka?
  - anon73044 7y ago
    Wine, should have specified. But, really, who wants aerated vodka?

tw04 7y ago

I'm sorry but if you can take a shot of Karkov vodka and a shot of Stoli and not tell the difference there is something very broken with your taste buds - regardless of what the law says. That's ignoring the headache you're going to have after a night of drinking Karkov. Source: I was poor in college and had the misfortune of dancing with Karkov on more than one occasion. For those of you who have never had the misfortune (it only comes in plastic bottles): https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/karkov+vodka+usa https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/karkov+vodka+usa

jerrysievert 7y ago
> That's ignoring the headache you're going to have after a night of drinking Karkov. typically from cutting the heads too shallow. ethanol's boiling point is 173ºF, where the alcohol that is giving you your headache is lower. cutting the heads (or lower evaporating alcohol) too shallow gives you more of that alcohol. now, as to taste, I disagree a little bit with the gp post in that enough complex sugars also make it out in that slurry if you're using a pot still (even triple distilling), or even using a reflux still, that there can be a marked taste difference between "neutral" spirits. source: I've made quite a lot of vodka (most of which has been turned into gin)
- gunshai 7y ago
  >source: I've made quite a lot of vodka (most of which has been turned into gin) My assumption here is because gin tastes good. :grin:
  - jerrysievert 7y ago
    or, as some like to call it: flavored vodka
    - freehunter 7y ago
      Flavored vodka is a big business. Just wander down any liquor aisle.
    - 7y ago

binarycrusader 7y ago

This is not quite accurate. Planet Money recently did a special on this. The difference is indeed in the “tails”: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/02/23/588346329/episode-826-the-vodka-proof https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/02/23/588346329/epis... https://www.npr.org/transcripts/588345420 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/588345420 The short version is there are certain chemical compounds that some individuals can taste or have an allergic reaction to that might be present in those tails and there are measurable differences between distillers.

gunshai 7y ago
Ya I've listened to that. However you left out the portion of that where they dive into the route origins of high end vodka. And the part at the end where they compare high end to other vodkas. My ultimate point is in marketability, no vodka markets it self as "the one that gives you less of a hangover" nor do they even report the compound composition to inform of consumer choice.
- shanecleveland 7y ago
  And there part where they rate the makeup of the high-end vodka as inferior to at least on of the other samples.
- binarycrusader 7y ago
  I did not “leave anything out”. The argument was that Vodkas “all basically have to be the same by law and you probably can't reliably identify a difference in a double blinded application”. My sole point was that particular assertion wasn’t wholly accurate. The law effectively only applies to the first two parts (heads and hearts). The Vodka origins do not detract from my point at all. Yes many Vodkas have similar origins, but not all of them do, and so they can vary subtly in taste and effects because of the tails which do vary between different Vodkas as noted in the podcast. And yes a cheap Vodka can actually be rated higher from a subjective chemical composition standpoint. But note I never claimed that a “high end vodka” was better. I won’t claim to be one of those people but based on that report I think it’s plausible that some or many people can tell a difference. In short, there is a measurable chemical difference between some Vodkas and some test labs assert that those differences are where differences in taste and effects lie.

blakesterz 7y ago

Mythbusters did 3 episodes on Vodka that were pretty interesting. One of them was a blind taste test and they were able to tell the difference between vodkas they had filtered at different rates. I think they concluded that's the big different, expensive vodkas are filtered more.

ken 7y ago

I really don't think it's that hard to sell ethanol. This is a substance which is regularly purchased by 70% of the population. You don't even have to be "not worst". "Worst" often also means "cheapest", and there's lots of people who seek out the cheapest option. It's well known that wine with pictures of animals on the label outsell non-animal-labelled wines by more than 2:1. This is not a particularly sophisticated market on the low end.

eu7durb3rjdur 7y ago
It's hard to do without breaking the market because it's so cheap. Reagent grade ethanol is dirt cheap and for this reason also spiked with chemicals to penalize people who drink it. Without sin taxes and regulations that accomplish similar ends you could probably sell 1.75L of vodka for 2 dollars. But then poor people could afford to have fun in a non-puritan fashion and Americans hate that for some reason.