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Senate passes bill to provide benefits to individuals and small businesses
- nathanaldensr 7y ago"Bold and significant" eh? Kind of like the "bold and significant" test kits that never materialized, or the "bold and significant" quarantine process we should've instituted as soon as the first patient was discovered.
- techntoke 7y agoThey meant bold and significant for the corporate bailouts. Socialism for thee but not for me.
- kortilla 7y agoCorporate “bailouts” are just loans.
- rapind 7y agoNot terribly interested in this thread, but for the record %0 interest loans when they're big (billions of dollars) are effectively the same as handing out free money. A bank would need to be ridiculously incompetent not to turn those loans into significant profits (and hey, give out executive bonuses too!).
- kortilla 7y agoWhich 0% bailouts are you referring to that gave billions to a single company? Sounds a bit like a straw man to me.
- rapind 7y agoWell you brought it up, so which bailout are you referring to when you said "Corporate “bailouts” are just loans." that isn't referring to billion(s) dollar loans?
- tathougies 7y ago> or the "bold and significant" quarantine process we should've instituted as soon as the first patient was discovered. The US was quarantining americans returning from covid countries with CDC quarantine orders (federally enforceable) since Jan 31?
- ookblah 7y agoLOL minus the diamond princess or the obvious one from like the woman from Iran? people were falling thru the cracks like candy, i happen to know 1 or 2 people that were confused they weren't even screened at the border. i suggest you do more than just take any announcement from the WH at face value, especially when there are numerous sources saying otherwise.
- tathougies 7y agoLinks? The people returned from diamond princess were subject to a 14 day quarantine at army bases? https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0215-Diamond-Princess-Repatriation.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0215-Diamond-Prince... But, yes america has an obligation to repatriate american citizens, and subjecting them to quarantine is the right thing to do. I have no doubt people were falling through cracks though. America has an incredibly open border with lax enforcement, mainly due to partisan bickering. Hopefully, this will get everyone on board with border security
- ookblah 7y agoi'm saying the diamond princess people were probably the few that were properly quarantined given the news coverage. the flight entry points during that time didn't even bother, just asked a few questions on where you were coming from.
- unishark 7y agoThe tests are finally materializing, though they did keep running into new issues after promising they had it all worked out. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/testing-in-us.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/test...
- madengr 7y agoSo what did they actually pass? The article is short on details.
- zie 7y agowith very little information of what this new bill actually does, and no links for further information. dissapointed.
- casefields 7y agoAs with most massive bills. You can read what's in it after it passes. The only ones that any idea of specifics are the staffs to members of Congress.
- koolba 7y agos/staffs/lobbyists/
- MikeTheGreat 7y agohttps://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pelosi-healthcare-pass-the-bill-to-see-what-is-in-it/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pelosi-healthcare-pass-the...
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago> The only ones that any idea of specifics are the staffs to members of Congress The bill [1] has been available on House.gov since it was introduced. [1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6074 https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6074
- codegeek 7y agoHere is the bill that already passed both house and senate that has relief for small businesses as well. Short summary: The programs funded by the bill address issues such as - developing, manufacturing, and procuring vaccines and other medical supplies; - grants for state, local, and tribal public health agencies and organizations; - loans for affected small businesses; - evacuations and emergency preparedness activities at U.S. embassies and other State Department facilities; and - humanitarian assistance and support for health systems in the affected countries. The bill also allows HHS to temporarily waive certain Medicare restrictions and requirements regarding telehealth services during the coronavirus public health emergency. https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6074 https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6074 Another one that is now in senate: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6201 https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6201
- grecy 7y agoAfter a little nudge the has USA jumped on board with other developed countries and offers sick leave, family leave, more unemployment assistance and free testing and treatment for a given illness. I will be fascinated to watch the reaction if and when it's taken away again.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- tathougies 7y agoThe US didn't really need a nudge. The White house and speaker of the house have said they were going to do this since last week. The US is ahead of other countries, given that our hospitals are not overrun already, and we've already started planning financially.
- grecy 7y agoWhat I meant was the US is finally starting to adopt a few more socialist policies that are common-place in the Developed World.
- adventured 7y agoThey're not Socialist policies, that's a confusion over what Socialism is (total state control of the means of production, as one of several requirements). What you're referring to is called a welfare state. They're welfare state policies, not Socialist policies. The US has been a welfare state nation for many decades now, and increasingly so. For example, there are no Socialist nations in Europe at present, including Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, or France. Those are overwhelmingly market based economies that have large welfare states.
- advantager 7y agoThere was a Freakonomics podcast episode I recently heard that further expands on your point regarding socialist vs. welfare states: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/socialism/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/socialism/
- themodelplumber 7y agoFrom a quick skim: - $61M to the FDA for various uses relevant to COVID-19 response. - $20M to the Small Business Administration for admin expenses incidental to carrying out the disaster loan program. - $2.2B to Department of Health and Human Services for preparations/preventions/responses to COVID-19; Not less than $950M to be used for grants or co-op agreements with states, tribes, etc. Minimum of $475M to be allocated within 30 days. - $836M to National Institutes of Health for COVID-19 prep/prevention/response. Including not less than $10M to go toward training to reduce hospital employee and first-responder exposure to COVID-19. - $3.1B to Public Health and Social Services Emergency Fund for developing innovations and enhancements to manufacturing platforms toward COVID-19 response. Emphasises creating affordable medication, among other things. - $300M to same, for purchase of vaccines, therapeutics, diagnostics. - $264M to Department of State for COVID-19 response. - $1M to USAID for Office of Inspector General oversight activities relevant to the funding - $435M to Global Health Program funding / Bilateral Economic Assistance, administered by USAID. - $300M to International Disaster Assistance - $250M to Economic Support Fund (Economic, security, and stabilization purposes) - Telehealth Services During Certain Emergency Periods Act of 2020
- rapind 7y ago"$250M to Economic Support Fund (Economic, security, and stabilization purposes)" sounds rather disappointing. Just a drop in the bucket no?
- themodelplumber 7y agoI believe ESF is for supporting and stabilizing overseas (non-U.S.) democracies & strategic interests. Speaking of US homeland economic support, one could argue that the combined effort shown by the bill, and all of the allocated budget money, is going toward support of the US economy in some way.
- IAmEveryone 7y agoThe ESF is a foreign-facing economic support fund. The idea is to stabilise Middle- and South-American countries, for example, to avoid mass migration. Or at least that's what we tell Republicans. The real purpose is obviously to help the poorest countries, because that's what you do when you can. And, yes, $250M is a rounding error. But the foreign aid budget is famous for being estimated as 20% of the federal budget if you survey the general population, when in reality it's <0.5%. So this isn't unusual or anything.
- gt565k 7y agoTrump straight up lied about freezing student loan interest. Just like he did about the "google" website, and testing availability. I know from multiple people who have called their loan providers and they've told them it's not implemented and there's no plan currently.
- Mountain_Skies 7y agoSpreading misinformation isn't helpful. Doing it to win political points is immoral. Doing it when it's easily checked if downright dumb. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/16/student-loan-borrowers-will-get-relief-amid-covid-19-what-to-know.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/16/student-loan-borrowers-will-... It's happening but as with all government programs, there is inertia in the current system. It was better to announce it and let the relevant organizations iron out the details than to do it the other way around. Bottom line is student loan interest is being waived for the time being. The multiple people you know who insist it's not true are free to continue to pay their interest though it will be applied to their principle instead.
- tathougies 7y agoTrump froze interest on government student loans. If your friends have loan providers that are not the government, then Trump's announcement is meaningless. Testing availability has ramped up a lot and you can send a COVID test to any quest or labcorp for analysis. Trump's google website is live and is supposed to be expanding to encompass more parts of the country: https://www.projectbaseline.com/study/covid-19/ https://www.projectbaseline.com/study/covid-19/
- vonmoltke 7y ago> I know from multiple people who have called their loan providers If they called "loan providers" they have private student loans and were never covered by Trump's promise in the first place. Trump can only waive interest for federal student loans, and all of those are serviced by Navient and provided by the Department of Education.
- saystupidthings 7y ago
- ta1234567890 7y agoLoans, even cheap ones, are a very shity way of "helping" small businesses and individuals. For example, a local restaurant where I live, will have to shut down for good in the next few days as they won't be able to afford their lease. If they get a loan for the lease, they'll be on the hook for that money with no guarantee of being able to pay it back and with way too much uncertainty in terms of when they'll be able to reopen the business. It would be really bad for them to shut down, but it could be even worse if they take out a loan and then are not able to pay it back. Very bad situation to be in. Same applies to individuals who will soon not be able to pay rent or other obligations. Loans are not a solution.
- smallgovt 7y agoWhat's a better alternative? Although loans are a bad solution for the type of restaurant you described, they are great solutions for small businesses that have predictable profits, of which there are many.
- kortilla 7y agoThis is how all of the other “bailouts” work for industries that everyone gets outraged about. What would you rather see?
- rapind 7y agoThe amount matters. I'll take a trillion dollar loan at %0 in a heartbeat and quickly become a millionaire via conservative investments. A 20k loan at %0 doesn't do much for me though.
- LeoNatan25 7y agoCongratulations on your new-founded "socialism", USA. Shame it took a global pandemic for you to notice the benefits of a social net.
- lliamander 7y agoCompensating people for forcing the closure of the businesses or not allowing them to work is not socialism.
- LeoNatan25 7y agoOf course it’s not. But it’s what the likes of Trump would have called it just two weeks ago.
- adventured 7y agoI would suggest doing research on that subject. The US has one of the world's largest, most expensive social safety nets. The primary problem the US has isn't spending on its social safety net, it's not controlling costs properly (as with healthcare in general) and not directing its spending effectively enough. The US spends approximately the equivalent of 40% the entire EU economy on its social safety net. This new spending is a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the existing US spending on its social safety net. It's precisely why the US poverty rate and US homelessness rate are comparable to Canada and France. Because the US spends very large sums of money on its social safety net. It's why the US spends $650-$700 billion each year on free healthcare for the poorest 25%. It's why the total government expenditures in the US are now $8 trillion every year. What do you think that's all going to? Roads? Military? Total government spending in the US is almost 40% of GDP. You can find the information you're lacking here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_Uni...
- capableweb 7y agoMaybe in the mandatory spending of the budget, social security is a big part of it, but looking at the discretionary spending which is 50% defense, it sure is a big part of the budget in the US. And sure, US spends a lot on social security, but how effective is it really? "Safety net" is a lot larger than just social security. For everyone to be able to go to the hospital for free is one thing that contributes to a safety net that the US does not have.
- mnm1 7y agoSo does this provide sick leave for companies that only offer vacation (paid time off) but no actual sick leave? Or are employees working at those places given the middle finger again and told to use their vacation days that don't exist (the WA sick leave act is like this)? Also, what does a business with < 50 employees have to do to get exempt? Is there a deadline to apply? Or will we have to wait to get sick only to find out that we're given the middle finger and can't take it because our company is going to exempt itself?
- steveeq1 7y agoHistorically, how long does it take to go to hyperinflation when past governments started doing this? I need to know.
- sabujp 7y agojust start buying gold etfs now if you're so worried
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- cultus 7y agoThat's really not a concern in recessions. You'd really have to go out of your way to get that result. I expect deflation due to demand destruction.
- ttul 7y agoIf GDP contracts 10% this year - a real possibility - there is literally zero chance of inflation. The real enemy is deflation.
- ma2rten 7y agoCan you explain that?
- ttul 7y agoPrices increase when there is more demand for things than there is supply. If the economy collapses by 10%, then it’s likely that people will be offering deals on products to stimulate demand. That means prices going down, not up.
- ma2rten 7y agoOkay, but as companies shut down, supply chains are disrupted and employers implement measures to enact social distancing, why wouldn't supply also go down? Does the GPD going down necessarily mean that there is less demand and not less supply?
- lend000 7y agoRegarding the small business loans, I think a better incentive would be at the state level, to comp prorated property taxes on all commercial property for the next few months, but only if the owners also comp rent for all renters on the property during this time. You may think that the landlords would be making more money by not accepting the comp, since the rent will have some premium on top of property tax, but the ones with some foresight may realize that they will lose more money if their tenants go out of business and they have vacancy periods, possibly only to find new renters at a lower price in the event of recession.
- ars 7y agoAnyone know what other countries have done in terms of economic stimulus?
- dillonmckay 7y agoLockdowns
- ck2 7y agoI have absolutely no problem with any of this but I am wondering about those who foam at the mouth against "socialism" and if they realize that is exactly what this is. You can call it anything you want to feel better "bailout" etc. but it's 100% socialism I wonder if the hotel industry is also going to get only loans or instead unfettered cash with no need to repay, let's see how that one works with double standards.
- tzm 7y agoWell, everyone becomes a socialist in a time of crisis.
- QuantumGood 7y agoThe loans support the supply & infrastructure -type bills the business must pay. It helps them more than the business.