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That's one way to fight homelessness /s Seriously though it's as if all those things that America is lagging the world in seem to come together in one large ev

That's one way to fight homelessness /s Seriously though it's as if all those things that America is lagging the world in seem to come together in one large event (financial over-leverage, lack of public health care, denial of facts at highest levels of government, poor sick leave, generally terrible social safety, low trust in the government).

DeonPenny 7y ago
Low trust in the government isn't an issue its literally the entire mantra for the US. And no offense it's been working better than trusting it.
- mumblemumble 7y ago
  For certain values of "trust" and "working". For example, having the highest incarceration rate in the world would be consistent with both authoritarianism (a form of high trust in government) and not really working all that well.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  What a crazy statement. The reason the USD is so highly valued is because there is such high trust in the government. There’s a reason countries with low trust have to come to NYC to sell bonds. Society is much more productive when you don’t have to worry how much to bribe everyone.
  - microcolonel 7y ago
    The trust in the government comes from the skepticism of the citizens.
    - arcticbull 7y ago
      No, it really doesn't. It's a hold-over from a time when the government could be trusted. Perceptions lag reality.
      - DeonPenny 7y ago
        The government of the US is no more or less capable than its ever been. People lives are just to short to realize it.
        arcticbull 7y ago
        > The government of the US is no more or less capable than its ever been. People lives are just to short to realize it. Ah that old chestnut -- the ostrich in the sand approach. I like it!
  - DeonPenny 7y ago
    But as American, I always feel like the government does its job and nothing more and does not terrible is because no one trusts it. No one gets lazy about keeping a critical eye on it. We also don't give it complex tasks cause it would just mess it up so it only does really big simple things. We look at other places that trust their government and it always historically goes wrong as soon as you give blind trust. Like if Trump got elected in a well-oiled machine that mechanism that necessitated blind trust. I don't want a smart capable government. Give me a dumb one that does simple things any day especially if the people in the country are capable.
- Arubis 7y ago
  There exist a large cadre of politicians that consistently run on the platform that the government is incompetent and should not be trusted, win elections, and then go out of their way to prove it.
  - DeonPenny 7y ago
    Theres also a large cadre of politician worldwide that consistently run on the platform that government is all-knowing from Venezuela, Korea in the 50s, Cuba, Argentina, Brazil, lots of central America, Chile, Italy, Greece, etc. And still, go out their way to prove it doesn't work. Should you really ever trust a system that individuals can sabotage so easily on purpose or not?
- arcticbull 7y ago
  Low trust in government is the mantra of the US and it's an issue.
  - ex3ndr 7y ago
    Look at Russia, people there have high trust in government.
    - arcticbull 7y ago
      Look at Norway, people there have a high trust in government. The problem isn't trust in government, it's the quality of the government.
      - DeonPenny 7y ago
        I don't think you should use an exception historically its apt to go bad rather than good in most cases. Norway is one bad leader away.
        arcticbull 7y ago
        And Russia is one good leader away.
        DeonPenny 7y ago
        Your government shouldn't have the capability to titer on that. Good, bad, or medium leader things should march on.
        arcticbull 7y ago
        That's entirely separate. You should be able to trust a government that's wrapped in checks and balances.
    - girvo 7y ago
      That’s not as true as you might think
dcftoapv 7y ago
China and Europe have public healthcare and social safety. They've been much worse off than the US so far. I'm not saying that won't change, but to sit here and shit all over America's approach to limited government is a premature celebration.
- nomel 7y ago
  > They've been much worse off than the US so far. I think this is a simplistic view. We're not only talking about infection rate here. edit: Social safety nets, medical debt, etc.
  - dcftoapv 7y ago
    Okay, sure. Lets talk about fiscal. Italy's going go re-enter another sovereign debt crisis because they were already in recession before they shut down their entire economy. Lets talk about medical. I haven't heard anything about hospital bed shortages in the US yet. Again, not saying we won't get there, but China had to build entire new facilities because they didn't have adequate infrastructure. Lets talk about essentials. American stores might be temporarily out of toilet paper, but Wuhan is currently dealing with dramatic food shortages.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - ikiris 7y ago
      You seem to be missing both the growth rate curve and the time lag. If anything the US still has its head in the sand and is heading for 5-40 million deaths due to just swamping the hospital capacity for critical care.
      - dcftoapv 7y ago
        I'm not going to sit here and defend the US government's approach to this situation. Not producing test kits, not investing in additional medical supplies earlier, etc. Those were the wrong decision. That said. Italy basically denied having a problem until they couldn't anymore. China's safety net health system did everything they could to cover up the crisis until it exploded in their face. Other countries haven't been doing much more to prepare than the US. People like to hate on it, but the US government still functions are a comparatively high level while maintaining a degree of individual freedom that other countries do not.
pupdogg 7y ago
If you are implying that you can 100% trust each and every politician that gets elected during various election cycles to be genuinely sincere and not corrupt, then yes, limited government involvement is bad!

DeonPenny 7y ago

Low trust in the government isn't an issue its literally the entire mantra for the US. And no offense it's been working better than trusting it.

mumblemumble 7y ago
For certain values of "trust" and "working". For example, having the highest incarceration rate in the world would be consistent with both authoritarianism (a form of high trust in government) and not really working all that well.
lotsofpulp 7y ago
What a crazy statement. The reason the USD is so highly valued is because there is such high trust in the government. There’s a reason countries with low trust have to come to NYC to sell bonds. Society is much more productive when you don’t have to worry how much to bribe everyone.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  The trust in the government comes from the skepticism of the citizens.
  - arcticbull 7y ago
    No, it really doesn't. It's a hold-over from a time when the government could be trusted. Perceptions lag reality.
    - DeonPenny 7y ago
      The government of the US is no more or less capable than its ever been. People lives are just to short to realize it.
      - arcticbull 7y ago
        > The government of the US is no more or less capable than its ever been. People lives are just to short to realize it. Ah that old chestnut -- the ostrich in the sand approach. I like it!
- DeonPenny 7y ago
  But as American, I always feel like the government does its job and nothing more and does not terrible is because no one trusts it. No one gets lazy about keeping a critical eye on it. We also don't give it complex tasks cause it would just mess it up so it only does really big simple things. We look at other places that trust their government and it always historically goes wrong as soon as you give blind trust. Like if Trump got elected in a well-oiled machine that mechanism that necessitated blind trust. I don't want a smart capable government. Give me a dumb one that does simple things any day especially if the people in the country are capable.
Arubis 7y ago
There exist a large cadre of politicians that consistently run on the platform that the government is incompetent and should not be trusted, win elections, and then go out of their way to prove it.
- DeonPenny 7y ago
  Theres also a large cadre of politician worldwide that consistently run on the platform that government is all-knowing from Venezuela, Korea in the 50s, Cuba, Argentina, Brazil, lots of central America, Chile, Italy, Greece, etc. And still, go out their way to prove it doesn't work. Should you really ever trust a system that individuals can sabotage so easily on purpose or not?
arcticbull 7y ago
Low trust in government is the mantra of the US and it's an issue.
- ex3ndr 7y ago
  Look at Russia, people there have high trust in government.
  - arcticbull 7y ago
    Look at Norway, people there have a high trust in government. The problem isn't trust in government, it's the quality of the government.
    - DeonPenny 7y ago
      I don't think you should use an exception historically its apt to go bad rather than good in most cases. Norway is one bad leader away.
      - arcticbull 7y ago
        And Russia is one good leader away.
        DeonPenny 7y ago
        Your government shouldn't have the capability to titer on that. Good, bad, or medium leader things should march on.
        arcticbull 7y ago
        That's entirely separate. You should be able to trust a government that's wrapped in checks and balances.
  - girvo 7y ago
    That’s not as true as you might think

dcftoapv 7y ago

China and Europe have public healthcare and social safety. They've been much worse off than the US so far. I'm not saying that won't change, but to sit here and shit all over America's approach to limited government is a premature celebration.

nomel 7y ago
> They've been much worse off than the US so far. I think this is a simplistic view. We're not only talking about infection rate here. edit: Social safety nets, medical debt, etc.
- dcftoapv 7y ago
  Okay, sure. Lets talk about fiscal. Italy's going go re-enter another sovereign debt crisis because they were already in recession before they shut down their entire economy. Lets talk about medical. I haven't heard anything about hospital bed shortages in the US yet. Again, not saying we won't get there, but China had to build entire new facilities because they didn't have adequate infrastructure. Lets talk about essentials. American stores might be temporarily out of toilet paper, but Wuhan is currently dealing with dramatic food shortages.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - ikiris 7y ago
    You seem to be missing both the growth rate curve and the time lag. If anything the US still has its head in the sand and is heading for 5-40 million deaths due to just swamping the hospital capacity for critical care.
    - dcftoapv 7y ago
      I'm not going to sit here and defend the US government's approach to this situation. Not producing test kits, not investing in additional medical supplies earlier, etc. Those were the wrong decision. That said. Italy basically denied having a problem until they couldn't anymore. China's safety net health system did everything they could to cover up the crisis until it exploded in their face. Other countries haven't been doing much more to prepare than the US. People like to hate on it, but the US government still functions are a comparatively high level while maintaining a degree of individual freedom that other countries do not.

pupdogg 7y ago

If you are implying that you can 100% trust each and every politician that gets elected during various election cycles to be genuinely sincere and not corrupt, then yes, limited government involvement is bad!