15 ms·

Canada to bar entry to non-residents (except US)

270 points by munk-a 7y ago

beloch 7y ago
Closing the border to the U.S. and leaving it open to all other countries would probably have a larger impact on controlling the spread of coronavirus, simply because of the relative volume of traffic between Canada and the U.S. vs the rest of the world.
tmh79 7y ago
Interesting question: Do you think the Canadian government has the power to deny entry of US citizens into Canada? I don't think they'd be able to do it. [edit] I think any Candian government who actually did it would see an economic shock and loss of legitimacy so large that none of them would risk it.
- shaggyfrog 7y ago
  You don’t think it’s possible because... why?
- def8cefe 7y ago
  Why do you think that? The Canadian government absolutely could and already does on a selective basis daily.
  - tmh79 7y ago
    I mean, they definitely could in a legal sense, but then the reaction from the US would likely be extreme and putative, it would likely cause a huge shock to the Canadian economy, and it would risk a sharp decline in the legitimacy of the canadian government.
    - aprdm 7y ago
      You do realize Canada is a first world country just like the US is right? They have strong relations but they still are separate countries.
      - tmh79 7y ago
        yes, I totally understand that. While they are separate countries, their economies and supply chains are extremely closely tied together and closing the border to US people would cause an extreme econ shock in both countries. Retaliation from the US would probably be stupid, out of scale, and make the situation much worse. My whole point is I don't think Canada would risk it.
        munk-a 7y ago
        I hear you and I think that's part of the reason US folks are still being allowed up - but honestly, there's a pandemic on, Canada shouldn't be held responsible for making sure Trump doesn't look bad and end up flipping out unreasonably - that's America's problem.
        def8cefe 7y ago
        >My whole point is I don't think Canada would risk it. Fuddle duddle.
    - preinheimer 7y ago
      Speaking as a Canadian: the current US government being angry at us would only increase the legitimacy of our government in my eyes.
      - RandallBrown 7y ago
        The decline in legitimacy would come from the devastating effects of shutting down trade with Canada.
        munk-a 7y ago
        To clarify - shutting down trade isn't on the table right now - all trade lines will be kept open for the immediate future. This announcement was solely about persons moving for non-logistical reasons.
        gpm 7y ago
        Shutting down trade would be stupid, but it wouldn't have any effect on the legitimacy of the government. We are pretty damn secure about the legitimacy of our electoral process.
    - def8cefe 7y ago
      The ban is on travellers, not trade. There will still be goods imported and exported all over the world, just not humans. There is already a huge shock to the global economy. American opinions of the Canadian government matter very little as they can't vote in our elections.
    - swypych 7y ago
      This happens all the time, to famous and non-famous people. US citizens have no rights to enter Canada. Also the right to refuse people actually further legitimizes the Canadian Government.
- Tiktaalik 7y ago
  ??? Why wouldn't they?
- microcolonel 7y ago
  They may not on an ordinary day, with our agreements being what they are; but I'm pretty sure in this circumstance we have the ability. It just won't really matter, since our borders need to be porous in practice, especially when we need supplies.
- mikestew 7y ago
  U. S. citizens get turned away at the Canadian border every day. Are you suggesting that Canada has lost its sovereignty?
burke 7y ago
Additionally, it didn't take a lot of reading-between-the-lines to infer that they're planning to close the border to Americans in the next few days as well. NAFTA must be an impediment here.
- mercurysmessage 7y ago
  The US seems to have a lot of community cases, so if they don't close that border as well it won't make much of a difference.
- jandrewrogers 7y ago
  Another issue is that there are many families that span both sides of the border.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    European countries that have closed borders have said "no family visits" unless the relative is critically ill.
- rhino369 7y ago
  I'd imagine a lot of key pathways of trade don't really stop at the border. I'm sure that trucking, for example, doesn't hand off goods. They probably drive straight through after a short border check. Unless they think they have significantly fewer cases than the United States, it doesn't make sense to block travelers.
  - inasio 7y ago
    There is a pretty stark difference between British Columbia and Washington State right now (10x cases, 42 vs 1 death)
    - jamie_ca 7y ago
      BC had 3 more over the weekend, now 4 deaths. And quite an up-tick in cases. :(
xutopia 7y ago
Too little too late. It's what will happen internally that will matter most.
- aguyfromnb 7y ago
  >Too little too late. I agree. Our government didn't take any apparent action up to this point, except express platitudes of "business as usual". Why not overreact early and buy some time to get sorted? How do people whose jobs it is to deal with these things go from, "we're fine" to "close everything down" in a matter of days? We've had months to get ready for this.
  - swypych 7y ago
    Im really hoping the Premiers now start closing businesses and shut stuff down.
  - mardifoufs 7y ago
    It depends on the province. Quebec is almost completely on lock down at this point. I think the decentralized approach is better in this case since it allows for much more agility and a localized approach. The provincial government here is communicating extremely well with the population and answers really well to most concerns from the population. To give an example they opened today daycares for the children of healthcare workers to avoid any disruption due to all schools shutting down. Which is an excellent comprise that I don't the federal government being able to set in place so quickly and so widely across the whole country
  - tpfour 7y ago
    Because that's not the federal government's problem. They are mostly interested in: international relations, facilitating business and the economy (trade deals etc), making sure shipping flows freely, defence, etc (you can find a list of all provincial vs federal competencies online). The healthcare systems are run by the provinces, even if the federal government took the liberty to redistribute tax monies to provinces for their own healthcare, subject to federal govt conditions, as well as assure service to some populations (first nations, veterans, etc). Trudeau has even stated that he thinks each province should be acting on that since they're competent wrt healthcare. Borders are under his control, yet weren't seen as a particularly pressing issue as I highly doubt (as we have, I believe, clearly seen) that this was even on his daily agenda before a few days ago. He went from 0 to 100 in a day. Just yesterday he was serving the same old same old. There were a bunch of statements made by some of his ministers on Twitter. Overall bad handling of what should have been a no-brainer. Premier Legault had to publically call Trudeau out multiple times on his inaction. That kind of thing shouldn't happen.
math0ne 7y ago
This is a crazy decision on a day when most of our cases came from the US.
- tenpies 7y ago
  > most of our cases came from the US. Source?
- drpgq 7y ago
  Most of them seem to be Canadians returning to Canada, not American tourists.
  - math0ne 7y ago
    Yeah I guess that is prob true.
- dade_ 7y ago
  Trucking - food. I think they need time to sort out changes to allow certain types of travel. Blocking all traffic except for business would be trivial to bypass, and making more categories isn't going to happen on a whim.
martythemaniak 7y ago
The problem with closing the US border is that it can't be a simple blanket ban - a very large amount of our food and other supplies comes from there. Closing that border must be a much more complex situation and needs more resources and planning.
- munk-a 7y ago
  Shipping and trade was specifically exempted from this restriction. I'm not certain if that might really complicate truck-carried goods but in theory goods moving is unrestricted.
  - RustomMS 7y ago
    My suspicion is that doing these restrictions for air and sea ports may be easier than for our land border. Also it seems like everything is on the table. Maybe more time is needed to ensure these exchange of goods and services aren't impacted by closing the land border.
    - munk-a 7y ago
      As I was listening to the followup discussion by the ministers that was my charitable read - that closing the border would cause supply chain issues because truck drivers would be uncertain if they could cross the border or companies might not even attempt to send goods up... So I do agree that's a possibility, but it seems like if that was the emphasis it could have been expressed much more clearly.
- mthoms 7y ago
  I think you hit the mark. The government will need to allow American truckers, air freight and rail crews to cross no matter what.
  - anonymfus 7y ago
    Why not change rail/truck crews/drivers at the border or stations closest to the border?
TheMerovingian 7y ago
The US is our biggest trading partner. If they are also barred from entering the country, it would effectively grind the economy to a crawl.
- burke 7y ago
  Tourism, certainly, but that's already in the toilet regardless of who our border is open to. Even for overseas countries, we imposed no restrictions on trade or commerce, only visitors. I doubt this accounts for a non-trivial fraction of our economy, especially with public spaces already shutting down.
  - phoobahr 7y ago
    The US is the only country we share a land border with and at the very least at this time of year 35million people will starve without trains and trucks over the border. So, yeah, the first logisitical barrier I can think of inside of 30 seconds.
    - mercurysmessage 7y ago
      Right in the article: "Trudeau said the new border controls will not apply to trade and commerce in order to keep Canada's supply chain open."
  - smnrchrds 7y ago
    It doesn't look like it is just visitors. People with Study and Work Permits seem to be affected as well.
    - burke 7y ago
      Sure, and perhaps a solution for America would include work and study permits alongside permanent residence in the category of exceptions.
- aprdm 7y ago
  Trudeau mentioned it is just for people, trading and "deliveries" continue as usual.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
wolco 7y ago
Reading between the lines I get the feeling we can't close the border and we're all in it together. There are towns where the border runs through the middle of town. Indian tribes that run through both. It would be extremely difficult to close the entire border.
- munk-a 7y ago
  As someone who lived in Vermont and who has been on the Akwesasne reservation - yea, sure, but there still is a border. It isn't like folks in the grey zone can constantly wander across willy-nilly penalty free. There certainly are places where you can just walk across a border in northern Vermont, and it's illegal to do so - so not many folks will cross the border. Remember, we're not at walking-dead levels of societal collapse, we can still generally assume people are following orders given by governments, so just saying the border is closed and letting folks through on a case-by-case basis should be fine.
- ilamont 7y ago
  The Mohawk Akwesasne council covers parts of New York, Ontario, and Quebec. The international border crosses islands in the St. Lawrence River as well as mainland areas, with tribal members going back and forth to visit family, go to school, get healthcare, go to work, etc. It's very complicated to monitor and regulate, with various tribe, state, provincial, and national authorities involved. There already is at least one COVID19 case being tracked: http://www.akwesasne.ca/mohawk-council-of-akwesasne-and-saint-regis-mohawk-tribe-joint-covid-19-novel-coronavirus-informational-briefing-march-14-2020/ http://www.akwesasne.ca/mohawk-council-of-akwesasne-and-sain... Further west, the bridges over the St. Lawrence connecting New York and Ontario get lots of daily cross-border workers, usually Canadians working in New York, as well as the normal flow of trade and tourism going both ways. Shutting it down would have a huge impact on the economies of both countries, but particularly Canada.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  There's a school district in Washington where the children have to take a bus through Canada to get to school. That is, if Washington State schools are still open. Still, there are a number of U.S. towns that can only be accessed through Canada. Also, my relatives in Minnesota say that most of the retail sales in their town is Canadians who don't have anywhere else to shop.
sefrost 7y ago
This is heart breaking for me! I am a Brit planning to come to Canada on an IEC visa which expires at the end of June. I'm writing to the IRCC begging for an extension to my entry date.
- pletsch 7y ago
  I can't imagine Canada not being lenient in this situation, we tend to have quite good relations with all commonwealth countries
  - digianarchist 7y ago
    As a British citizen and now also a Canadian citizen I can confirm that we don't get any special treatment and rightly so.
    - cachvico 7y ago
      We do with driving licences, at least in Quebec. We don't have to pass a test to get a licence here smh.
  - grecy 7y ago
    This is an extremely common misconception. I'm Australian, took about five years to get Permanent Residency for Canada. I've been working on Citizenship for about three, still ongoing. On all my application forms my country of origin has nothing to do with anything. My application process would have been identical if I were from Turkey or Mali or the Congo. (unless I was claiming refugee status, which is entirely different) I still had to take an English test, even though my application was sponsored through a company that had been employing me as an Engineer for two years already, and my Engineering degree is from Australia. Commonwealth countries do get a bit a good deal with work visas for Canada, but for residency and citizenship it doesn't change a thing.
avip 7y ago
There goes my plan to flee to Canada once things go south.
- pkaye 7y ago
  So when things go south, you go north?
  - avip 7y ago
    Canada is a hefty, relatively normative, English-speaking country, I always assumed it'll be the obvious temp. shelter in hard times.
    - pkaye 7y ago
      I just meant it as a joke of south vs north.
    - munk-a 7y ago
      Is this why US healthcare is so terrible - there's an assumption that if things get really bad you can just head up north into Canada? Why not just fix your country - Canada isn't a big country and it provides well for its population, but those services wouldn't hold up under pressure from large numbers of Americans.
      - avip 7y ago
        "my country" is not the US. Fixing a country is very difficult. I've long accepted that "fixing my country" is not something I can do. Grabbing my kids and hopping on a plane, otoh, is fairly easy. (as to your question - no)
      - reaperducer 7y ago
        Calm down. It's just a cultural cliche holdover from the Vietnam War when draft dodgers ran to Canada to avoid serving. Like when all those celebrities in Hollywood swore they would move to Canada if Trump was elected, and then completely failed to live up to their promises.
swarnie_ 7y ago
Surely the US is the last place you want to accept people from (from a health point of view)
- swebs 7y ago
  Not even in the top 5 https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.h...
  - eloff 7y ago
    The US fucked up testing pretty bad. There are many more cases than the official number.
    - swebs 7y ago
      That's the case in most places though. Places like Sweden and Finland have stopped testing for people who don't have severe symptoms. Sort by the death rates to get a more accurate picture.
  - munk-a 7y ago
    You're assuming those numbers are accurate - the US has had a terrible time getting testing out so it might be less a case of "we don't have any" and more a case of "we're clueless as to what's going on". And, honestly, I'm thinking it's the second since it seems like there is widespread community transmission.
  - swarnie_ 7y ago
    They have the worst and least accessible healthcare system in the western world. The only reason those numbers aren't higher is because they're testing less people per population then Vietnam.
    - swebs 7y ago
      You can complain about the insurance system, but the quality of care is among the best in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_quality_of_healthcare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_quality_o... Nobody is denied care if their life is in danger, and those below the poverty line qualify for free healthcare through Medicaid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid
reaperducer 7y ago
So... Meghan Markle can go back to Vancouver Island to be with her child, but Prince Harry is trapped in the UK?
- gpm 7y ago
  It seems unlikely that a member of the Canadian royal family [0] and Canadian military is going to be blocked from returning to Canada if he isn't showing symptoms. [0] Technically a distinct entity from the British royal family, it "just happens" to currently contain the same members and have similar (but not the same) succession rules.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    I never thought of the notion of "Canadian royal family" before. I guess that makes more sense. It also gives me this silly vision of Harry at the YVR immigration counter holding up a $20 note and saying, "Because my grandma says so."
    - smnrchrds 7y ago
      He doesn't have to, he can just point to the official Government of Canada webpage describing Canadian Royal Family: Canadian Royal Family: https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-family.html https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-fa... His Royal Highness The Duke of Sussex, Prince Harry: https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-family/members-royal-family/prince-harry.html https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-fa... Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Sussex, Rachel Meghan Markle: https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-family/members-royal-family/duchess-sussex.html https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-fa... But in all seriousness, immigration is a separate issue. Being a member of the royal family, unless your are the Queen herself, does not guarantee you any rights in Canada, including right of entry.
  - jdmg94 7y ago
    well, when they announced they were moving to Vancouver the news said they still had to apply for a visa, even if grandma is on the money
ajlburke 7y ago
It should be noted that anybody coming into Canada now from a foreign country, no matter their citizenship, is being told to self-quarantine for 14 days. This isn't mandatory or enforced (yet) but it's not exactly a red carpet for folks to come visit for tourism or business meetings.
thbr99 7y ago
Stressful times for temporary skilled foreign workers in Canada & international students on study permits. Foreign worker visa extension delays and loss of work visa status will happen. Also those who applied for permanent residency while working in Canada are going to see long wait times. Chrystia Freeland diplomatically dodged questions concerning the work permit holders & international students in Canada when asked by a reporter.

270 points by munk-a 7y ago

Closing the border to the U.S. and leaving it open to all other countries would probably have a larger impact on controlling the spread of coronavirus, simply because of the relative volume of traffic between Canada and the U.S. vs the rest of the world.

tmh79 7y ago

Interesting question: Do you think the Canadian government has the power to deny entry of US citizens into Canada? I don't think they'd be able to do it. [edit] I think any Candian government who actually did it would see an economic shock and loss of legitimacy so large that none of them would risk it.

shaggyfrog 7y ago
You don’t think it’s possible because... why?
def8cefe 7y ago
Why do you think that? The Canadian government absolutely could and already does on a selective basis daily.
- tmh79 7y ago
  I mean, they definitely could in a legal sense, but then the reaction from the US would likely be extreme and putative, it would likely cause a huge shock to the Canadian economy, and it would risk a sharp decline in the legitimacy of the canadian government.
  - aprdm 7y ago
    You do realize Canada is a first world country just like the US is right? They have strong relations but they still are separate countries.
    - tmh79 7y ago
      yes, I totally understand that. While they are separate countries, their economies and supply chains are extremely closely tied together and closing the border to US people would cause an extreme econ shock in both countries. Retaliation from the US would probably be stupid, out of scale, and make the situation much worse. My whole point is I don't think Canada would risk it.
      - munk-a 7y ago
        I hear you and I think that's part of the reason US folks are still being allowed up - but honestly, there's a pandemic on, Canada shouldn't be held responsible for making sure Trump doesn't look bad and end up flipping out unreasonably - that's America's problem.
      - def8cefe 7y ago
        >My whole point is I don't think Canada would risk it. Fuddle duddle.
  - preinheimer 7y ago
    Speaking as a Canadian: the current US government being angry at us would only increase the legitimacy of our government in my eyes.
    - RandallBrown 7y ago
      The decline in legitimacy would come from the devastating effects of shutting down trade with Canada.
      - munk-a 7y ago
        To clarify - shutting down trade isn't on the table right now - all trade lines will be kept open for the immediate future. This announcement was solely about persons moving for non-logistical reasons.
      - gpm 7y ago
        Shutting down trade would be stupid, but it wouldn't have any effect on the legitimacy of the government. We are pretty damn secure about the legitimacy of our electoral process.
  - def8cefe 7y ago
    The ban is on travellers, not trade. There will still be goods imported and exported all over the world, just not humans. There is already a huge shock to the global economy. American opinions of the Canadian government matter very little as they can't vote in our elections.
  - swypych 7y ago
    This happens all the time, to famous and non-famous people. US citizens have no rights to enter Canada. Also the right to refuse people actually further legitimizes the Canadian Government.
Tiktaalik 7y ago
??? Why wouldn't they?
microcolonel 7y ago
They may not on an ordinary day, with our agreements being what they are; but I'm pretty sure in this circumstance we have the ability. It just won't really matter, since our borders need to be porous in practice, especially when we need supplies.
mikestew 7y ago
U. S. citizens get turned away at the Canadian border every day. Are you suggesting that Canada has lost its sovereignty?

burke 7y ago

Additionally, it didn't take a lot of reading-between-the-lines to infer that they're planning to close the border to Americans in the next few days as well. NAFTA must be an impediment here.

mercurysmessage 7y ago
The US seems to have a lot of community cases, so if they don't close that border as well it won't make much of a difference.
jandrewrogers 7y ago
Another issue is that there are many families that span both sides of the border.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  European countries that have closed borders have said "no family visits" unless the relative is critically ill.
rhino369 7y ago
I'd imagine a lot of key pathways of trade don't really stop at the border. I'm sure that trucking, for example, doesn't hand off goods. They probably drive straight through after a short border check. Unless they think they have significantly fewer cases than the United States, it doesn't make sense to block travelers.
- inasio 7y ago
  There is a pretty stark difference between British Columbia and Washington State right now (10x cases, 42 vs 1 death)
  - jamie_ca 7y ago
    BC had 3 more over the weekend, now 4 deaths. And quite an up-tick in cases. :(

xutopia 7y ago

Too little too late. It's what will happen internally that will matter most.

aguyfromnb 7y ago
>Too little too late. I agree. Our government didn't take any apparent action up to this point, except express platitudes of "business as usual". Why not overreact early and buy some time to get sorted? How do people whose jobs it is to deal with these things go from, "we're fine" to "close everything down" in a matter of days? We've had months to get ready for this.
- swypych 7y ago
  Im really hoping the Premiers now start closing businesses and shut stuff down.
- mardifoufs 7y ago
  It depends on the province. Quebec is almost completely on lock down at this point. I think the decentralized approach is better in this case since it allows for much more agility and a localized approach. The provincial government here is communicating extremely well with the population and answers really well to most concerns from the population. To give an example they opened today daycares for the children of healthcare workers to avoid any disruption due to all schools shutting down. Which is an excellent comprise that I don't the federal government being able to set in place so quickly and so widely across the whole country
- tpfour 7y ago
  Because that's not the federal government's problem. They are mostly interested in: international relations, facilitating business and the economy (trade deals etc), making sure shipping flows freely, defence, etc (you can find a list of all provincial vs federal competencies online). The healthcare systems are run by the provinces, even if the federal government took the liberty to redistribute tax monies to provinces for their own healthcare, subject to federal govt conditions, as well as assure service to some populations (first nations, veterans, etc). Trudeau has even stated that he thinks each province should be acting on that since they're competent wrt healthcare. Borders are under his control, yet weren't seen as a particularly pressing issue as I highly doubt (as we have, I believe, clearly seen) that this was even on his daily agenda before a few days ago. He went from 0 to 100 in a day. Just yesterday he was serving the same old same old. There were a bunch of statements made by some of his ministers on Twitter. Overall bad handling of what should have been a no-brainer. Premier Legault had to publically call Trudeau out multiple times on his inaction. That kind of thing shouldn't happen.

math0ne 7y ago

This is a crazy decision on a day when most of our cases came from the US.

tenpies 7y ago
> most of our cases came from the US. Source?
drpgq 7y ago
Most of them seem to be Canadians returning to Canada, not American tourists.
- math0ne 7y ago
  Yeah I guess that is prob true.
dade_ 7y ago
Trucking - food. I think they need time to sort out changes to allow certain types of travel. Blocking all traffic except for business would be trivial to bypass, and making more categories isn't going to happen on a whim.

martythemaniak 7y ago

The problem with closing the US border is that it can't be a simple blanket ban - a very large amount of our food and other supplies comes from there. Closing that border must be a much more complex situation and needs more resources and planning.

munk-a 7y ago
Shipping and trade was specifically exempted from this restriction. I'm not certain if that might really complicate truck-carried goods but in theory goods moving is unrestricted.
- RustomMS 7y ago
  My suspicion is that doing these restrictions for air and sea ports may be easier than for our land border. Also it seems like everything is on the table. Maybe more time is needed to ensure these exchange of goods and services aren't impacted by closing the land border.
  - munk-a 7y ago
    As I was listening to the followup discussion by the ministers that was my charitable read - that closing the border would cause supply chain issues because truck drivers would be uncertain if they could cross the border or companies might not even attempt to send goods up... So I do agree that's a possibility, but it seems like if that was the emphasis it could have been expressed much more clearly.
mthoms 7y ago
I think you hit the mark. The government will need to allow American truckers, air freight and rail crews to cross no matter what.
- anonymfus 7y ago
  Why not change rail/truck crews/drivers at the border or stations closest to the border?

TheMerovingian 7y ago

The US is our biggest trading partner. If they are also barred from entering the country, it would effectively grind the economy to a crawl.

burke 7y ago
Tourism, certainly, but that's already in the toilet regardless of who our border is open to. Even for overseas countries, we imposed no restrictions on trade or commerce, only visitors. I doubt this accounts for a non-trivial fraction of our economy, especially with public spaces already shutting down.
- phoobahr 7y ago
  The US is the only country we share a land border with and at the very least at this time of year 35million people will starve without trains and trucks over the border. So, yeah, the first logisitical barrier I can think of inside of 30 seconds.
  - mercurysmessage 7y ago
    Right in the article: "Trudeau said the new border controls will not apply to trade and commerce in order to keep Canada's supply chain open."
- smnrchrds 7y ago
  It doesn't look like it is just visitors. People with Study and Work Permits seem to be affected as well.
  - burke 7y ago
    Sure, and perhaps a solution for America would include work and study permits alongside permanent residence in the category of exceptions.
aprdm 7y ago
Trudeau mentioned it is just for people, trading and "deliveries" continue as usual.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

wolco 7y ago

Reading between the lines I get the feeling we can't close the border and we're all in it together. There are towns where the border runs through the middle of town. Indian tribes that run through both. It would be extremely difficult to close the entire border.

munk-a 7y ago
As someone who lived in Vermont and who has been on the Akwesasne reservation - yea, sure, but there still is a border. It isn't like folks in the grey zone can constantly wander across willy-nilly penalty free. There certainly are places where you can just walk across a border in northern Vermont, and it's illegal to do so - so not many folks will cross the border. Remember, we're not at walking-dead levels of societal collapse, we can still generally assume people are following orders given by governments, so just saying the border is closed and letting folks through on a case-by-case basis should be fine.
ilamont 7y ago
The Mohawk Akwesasne council covers parts of New York, Ontario, and Quebec. The international border crosses islands in the St. Lawrence River as well as mainland areas, with tribal members going back and forth to visit family, go to school, get healthcare, go to work, etc. It's very complicated to monitor and regulate, with various tribe, state, provincial, and national authorities involved. There already is at least one COVID19 case being tracked: http://www.akwesasne.ca/mohawk-council-of-akwesasne-and-saint-regis-mohawk-tribe-joint-covid-19-novel-coronavirus-informational-briefing-march-14-2020/ http://www.akwesasne.ca/mohawk-council-of-akwesasne-and-sain... Further west, the bridges over the St. Lawrence connecting New York and Ontario get lots of daily cross-border workers, usually Canadians working in New York, as well as the normal flow of trade and tourism going both ways. Shutting it down would have a huge impact on the economies of both countries, but particularly Canada.
reaperducer 7y ago
There's a school district in Washington where the children have to take a bus through Canada to get to school. That is, if Washington State schools are still open. Still, there are a number of U.S. towns that can only be accessed through Canada. Also, my relatives in Minnesota say that most of the retail sales in their town is Canadians who don't have anywhere else to shop.

sefrost 7y ago

This is heart breaking for me! I am a Brit planning to come to Canada on an IEC visa which expires at the end of June. I'm writing to the IRCC begging for an extension to my entry date.

pletsch 7y ago
I can't imagine Canada not being lenient in this situation, we tend to have quite good relations with all commonwealth countries
- digianarchist 7y ago
  As a British citizen and now also a Canadian citizen I can confirm that we don't get any special treatment and rightly so.
  - cachvico 7y ago
    We do with driving licences, at least in Quebec. We don't have to pass a test to get a licence here smh.
- grecy 7y ago
  This is an extremely common misconception. I'm Australian, took about five years to get Permanent Residency for Canada. I've been working on Citizenship for about three, still ongoing. On all my application forms my country of origin has nothing to do with anything. My application process would have been identical if I were from Turkey or Mali or the Congo. (unless I was claiming refugee status, which is entirely different) I still had to take an English test, even though my application was sponsored through a company that had been employing me as an Engineer for two years already, and my Engineering degree is from Australia. Commonwealth countries do get a bit a good deal with work visas for Canada, but for residency and citizenship it doesn't change a thing.

avip 7y ago

There goes my plan to flee to Canada once things go south.

pkaye 7y ago
So when things go south, you go north?
- avip 7y ago
  Canada is a hefty, relatively normative, English-speaking country, I always assumed it'll be the obvious temp. shelter in hard times.
  - pkaye 7y ago
    I just meant it as a joke of south vs north.
  - munk-a 7y ago
    Is this why US healthcare is so terrible - there's an assumption that if things get really bad you can just head up north into Canada? Why not just fix your country - Canada isn't a big country and it provides well for its population, but those services wouldn't hold up under pressure from large numbers of Americans.
    - avip 7y ago
      "my country" is not the US. Fixing a country is very difficult. I've long accepted that "fixing my country" is not something I can do. Grabbing my kids and hopping on a plane, otoh, is fairly easy. (as to your question - no)
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      Calm down. It's just a cultural cliche holdover from the Vietnam War when draft dodgers ran to Canada to avoid serving. Like when all those celebrities in Hollywood swore they would move to Canada if Trump was elected, and then completely failed to live up to their promises.

swarnie_ 7y ago

Surely the US is the last place you want to accept people from (from a health point of view)

swebs 7y ago
Not even in the top 5 https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.h...
- eloff 7y ago
  The US fucked up testing pretty bad. There are many more cases than the official number.
  - swebs 7y ago
    That's the case in most places though. Places like Sweden and Finland have stopped testing for people who don't have severe symptoms. Sort by the death rates to get a more accurate picture.
- munk-a 7y ago
  You're assuming those numbers are accurate - the US has had a terrible time getting testing out so it might be less a case of "we don't have any" and more a case of "we're clueless as to what's going on". And, honestly, I'm thinking it's the second since it seems like there is widespread community transmission.
- swarnie_ 7y ago
  They have the worst and least accessible healthcare system in the western world. The only reason those numbers aren't higher is because they're testing less people per population then Vietnam.
  - swebs 7y ago
    You can complain about the insurance system, but the quality of care is among the best in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_quality_of_healthcare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_quality_o... Nobody is denied care if their life is in danger, and those below the poverty line qualify for free healthcare through Medicaid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid

reaperducer 7y ago

So... Meghan Markle can go back to Vancouver Island to be with her child, but Prince Harry is trapped in the UK?

gpm 7y ago
It seems unlikely that a member of the Canadian royal family [0] and Canadian military is going to be blocked from returning to Canada if he isn't showing symptoms. [0] Technically a distinct entity from the British royal family, it "just happens" to currently contain the same members and have similar (but not the same) succession rules.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  I never thought of the notion of "Canadian royal family" before. I guess that makes more sense. It also gives me this silly vision of Harry at the YVR immigration counter holding up a $20 note and saying, "Because my grandma says so."
  - smnrchrds 7y ago
    He doesn't have to, he can just point to the official Government of Canada webpage describing Canadian Royal Family: Canadian Royal Family: https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-family.html https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-fa... His Royal Highness The Duke of Sussex, Prince Harry: https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-family/members-royal-family/prince-harry.html https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-fa... Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Sussex, Rachel Meghan Markle: https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-family/members-royal-family/duchess-sussex.html https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-fa... But in all seriousness, immigration is a separate issue. Being a member of the royal family, unless your are the Queen herself, does not guarantee you any rights in Canada, including right of entry.
- jdmg94 7y ago
  well, when they announced they were moving to Vancouver the news said they still had to apply for a visa, even if grandma is on the money

ajlburke 7y ago

It should be noted that anybody coming into Canada now from a foreign country, no matter their citizenship, is being told to self-quarantine for 14 days. This isn't mandatory or enforced (yet) but it's not exactly a red carpet for folks to come visit for tourism or business meetings.

thbr99 7y ago

Stressful times for temporary skilled foreign workers in Canada & international students on study permits. Foreign worker visa extension delays and loss of work visa status will happen. Also those who applied for permanent residency while working in Canada are going to see long wait times. Chrystia Freeland diplomatically dodged questions concerning the work permit holders & international students in Canada when asked by a reporter.